LZIp Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I wonder if the Colts had other holes to fill when they were 1-15 and took Andrew Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 If a consensus franchise QB is available when you draft, you take him unless you already have one on the roster with many years left to play. The real question is how often is a true consensus franchise QB available in the draft? Andrew Luck was described as a "once in a decade" consensus franchise QB. They certainly don't come along every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Pass on a college QB that will be a rookie is more like it zippy. Most college QBs will be a rookie, that is a good point. Like DiG said, if a franchise QB is there, you take him. Period. Bortles may or may not be that guy, but you don't pass because the rest of the team is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 This is coming from a Steeler fan. I hope they pass on a QB, because without a QB they'll never be a threat. But it'd be smart to take one if the right fit is there for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 This is coming from a Steeler fan. I hope they pass on a QB, because without a QB they'll never be a threat. But it'd be smart to take one if the right fit is there for them. The Steelers have been very good in the past at building a great offensive line and defense, which is just what I'm proposing. However, I've never liked the Steelers and it makes me sick that people who live near Cleveland back Pittsburgh, unless they once lived near the Burgh in their youth (pass to Dr Z & others - maybe you too zippy - nah). This is THE definition of being a traitor or fair weather fan, like being an OSU backer when you're an Akron student or Alum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Steelers have been very good in the past at building a great offensive line and defense, which is just what I'm proposing. The Browns have a great defense and a pretty solid O-Line. The O-line looked horrid when Weeden was in there, but only because he was as mobile and had as goof of pocket presence at my Grandma. Most units on the team are good. Secondary..Skrine played a lot better this year, as did Ward. Gipson makes plays as well and Joe Haden speaks for himself. LB....They need an upgrade on the inside next to Jackson. DL- studs. OL- I'm satisfied with, but could use an upgrade on the right side. WRs are alright. RBs and QB needs upgraded. The hardest problem to fix out of all of that is the QB. Get the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'm from PA thanks. The Steelers and good offensive line - lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'm from PA thanks. The Steelers and good offensive line - lol! The Steelers offensive line is good for the opponents. That's about it haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Browns have a great defense Biggest myth in sports this year. 4th most points allowed in the AFC if I remember correctly. Anyway I don't mean to take this off topic so I'll quit with the NFL talk unless it's about Bortles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'm from PA thanks. The Steelers and good offensive line - lol! Injuries http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steeler...es/201312080122 OK you get a pass too for loving the Steelers, but you still sound like a prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Injuries http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steeler...es/201312080122 OK you get a pass too for loving the Steelers, but you still sound like a prick. Oh the irony. Anyway if you've ever watched the Steelers in the past say, 7 years you would have seen Ben lead the league multiple times in being sacked. And Ben is arguably the hardest man to sack in the league. Trust me I watch them enough, I know about the injuries. But if I bring them up I usually hear some "excuses" lingo back so I'll just say the line is pretty subpar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Oh the irony. Anyway if you've ever watched the Steelers in the past say, 7 years you would have seen Ben lead the league multiple times in being sacked. And Ben is arguably the hardest man to sack in the league. Trust me I watch them enough, I know about the injuries. But if I bring them up I usually hear some "excuses" lingo back so I'll just say the line is pretty subpar. Please your love affair with Ben, who I couldn't stand at Miami makes me puke too. Pittsburgh recent #1 draft picks: 2013 - J Jones - LB 2012 - D Castro - OG 2011 - CHaywood - DE 2010 - M Pouncey - C 2009 - Z Hood - DT Defense and offensive line in the early draft, unless it has been determined that the team can play a rookie in a skill position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Biggest myth in sports this year. 4th most points allowed in the AFC if I remember correctly.Only a myth in NEO. 26 points per game. 6th worst in AFC, 11th worst in the league. The top 10 teams in this statistical category will likely make the playoffs or just miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Please your love affair with Ben, who I couldn't stand at Miami makes me puke too. Pittsburgh recent #1 draft picks: 2013 - J Jones - LB 2012 - D Castro - OG 2011 - CHaywood - DE 2010 - M Pouncey - C 2009 - Z Hood - DT Defense and offensive line in the early draft, unless it has been determined that the team can play a rookie in a skill position. Which supports my point of taking the QB first if he's available, since they took Ben before those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Browns: 8th in total defense. 9th in pass defense, 8th in rush defense. They are better in two of those categories than Pittsburgh and 1 spot behind in passing D. Obviously PPG doesn't support that, but factors come into play such as turnovers, time on the field, etc to make that worse. Horton will get a head coaching gig sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipsfan33 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Browns have a great defense... Ummmm apparently our definition of great is different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Steelers have been very good in the past at building a great offensive line and defense, which is just what I'm proposing. However, I've never liked the Steelers and it makes me sick that people who live near Cleveland back Pittsburgh, unless they once lived near the Burgh in their youth (pass to Dr Z & others - maybe you too zippy - nah). This is THE definition of being a traitor or fair weather fan, like being an OSU backer when you're an Akron student or Alum. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akzipper Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Steelers have been very good in the past at building a great offensive line and defense, which is just what I'm proposing. However, I've never liked the Steelers and it makes me sick that people who live near Cleveland back Pittsburgh, unless they once lived near the Burgh in their youth (pass to Dr Z & others - maybe you too zippy - nah). This is THE definition of being a traitor or fair weather fan, like being an OSU backer when you're an Akron student or Alum. A fan base that gets 45,000 to show up for a primetime game, and almost last in the NFL in attendance after one bad year. Embarrassing. That's about as "fair weather" as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 And here we go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Which supports my point of taking the QB first if he's available, since they took Ben before those guys. Or was it that Pittsburgh was loaded and ready to take a chance at QB in the first round? Do you have such a man crush on Rothlesbuger that you think he came into the league and did well without an outstanding team around him? Is that supportable - no just like your idea for the Browns to take a QB with their first pick - that would be like buying a Mercedes and parking it on the street in a struggling neighborhood. Get your house in order before you buy the expensive wheels or there won't be much left of it sitting out there on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Or was it that Pittsburgh was loaded and ready to take a chance at QB in the first round? Do you have such a man crush on Rothlesbuger that you think he came into the league and did well without an outstanding team around him? Is that supportable - no just like your idea for the Browns to take a QB with their first pick - that would be like buying a Mercedes and parking it on the street in a struggling neighborhood. Get your house in order before you buy the expensive wheels. The Steelers were 6-10 before they drafted him. Since it seems like you can't have a rational conversation about the Steelers, let's use the 1-15 Colts that picked Andrew Luck as an example instead. Were the Colts "Stacked" when they went 1-15? How about the Panthers, stacked when they took Cam Newton? Take the QB and build around him. If the right guy is there early, take him. It's easier to find talent at other positions later and fill holes. Every once in a while there is a Russell Wilson or Tom Brady later, but more often than not that isn't going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The Steelers were 6-10 before they drafted him. Since it seems like you can't have a rational conversation about the Steelers, let's use the 1-15 Colts that picked Andrew Luck as an example instead. Were the Colts "Stacked" when they went 1-15? How about the Panthers, stacked when they took Cam Newton? Take the QB and build around him. If the right guy is there early, take him. It's easier to find talent at other positions later and fill holes. Every once in a while there is a Russell Wilson or Tom Brady later, but more often than not that isn't going to work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season The Steelers were 10-5-1 in 2002 and 13-3 in 2001. Injuries hit in 2003 (see above). All Ben in 2004? The Colts were 14-3 in 2009 (Super Bowl year) and 10-6 in 2010. Injuries hit in 2011 when they were 2-14. All Andrew Luck in 2012? Build the team and then take the QB in the first round or it will not work out (Couch, Quinn, Weeden). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I feel like the Browns lack of success has jaded your views a bit. See my examples of teams that drafted a QB and built around them. There are many more examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I feel like the Browns lack of success has jaded your views a bit. See my examples of teams that drafted a QB and built around them. There are many more examples. Successful teams build first and then take a QB high in the draft. Here's another example to help prove my point - the Houston Texans took David Carr #1 in 2002 to 'build around' with zippy5 as their GM. Carr became the NFL's most sacked QB in a single season during 2002. In four years the Texans went 4-12 in 2002, 5-11 in 2003, 7-9 in 2004 and 2-14 in 2005. Carr probably can't tie his shoes by himself now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Like I said if the right guy is available. Don't take a QB to take a QB. Carr probably would have flopped on most teams. "GM Zippy" would have taken Luck, Stafford, Newton, Ryan, Ben, Palmer, Cutler, Brees, Manning, Eli, Rivers and so on in the spots they were taken. Do you think teams that passed over those guys are thinking "great thing we passed on our franchise QB, we weren't ready for one!" Hint: the answer is no, they're probably kicking themselves for trading their picks or taking D'Brickshaw Ferguson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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