Saint Mary's

[zippy5]

Two things:

1. Big Dog is good. Why the heck did he not play vs CC? Would have been nice if this wasn't his first action. He will dominate the MAC.

2. While we are very deep, and very athletic, we are simple terrible playing uptempo. I'm not saying play Charlie Coles style, but we are too undisciplined playing uptempo. The press creates easy layups, and our breaks turn into a turnover half the time. We're bigger than every single team we'll play this year. Slow it down and get the ball inside. We won't see a team that can stop Tree, Pat, Big Dog, Harney and Kwan inside.

[skip-zip]

Bottom Line: A Dambrot coached Akron team is not going to beat anyone that shoots 51% from the field.

The turnovers are a problem for the 2nd straight game, but there's plenty of blame to go around. The two point guards, combined, only accounted for 5 of the 19 turnovers (although neither had an assist - ALARMING !!). But, 4 turnovers from your Center ???

[zippy5]

51% isn't very impressive, considering over half their buckets were layups.

[skip-zip]

51% isn't very impressive, considering over half their buckets were layups.

You missed the point. Impressive or not, it's not a number that's worked in our favor in the Dambrot era.

[Dave in Green]

Some tend to focus more on the positive points and some on the negative. Nothing new there. Every Zips fan agrees that the final result was negative, so no surprise that there'd be a lot of negative in this thread. Since others are much better at focusing on the negative that I am, I'll try to stick mostly with positive observations even though I can clearly see the negatives as well.

Obviously, Tree performed as expected. He's going to get even better as the season goes on. The 4 spot is solid.

At the 5, Pat looked a little better on offense, taking the ball to the basket aggressively and hitting 3-4 from the field. He's going to have to overcome the turnovers and fouls, though, because Big Dog is breathing down his neck for the starting position with a performance that exceeded expectations. Big Dog showed that he can effectively block out, establish rebounding position, catch and control passes, feed the open man, make spin moves to the bucket and with his soft touch get the ball to fall better than 50% of the time, all against above average D1 players. He played 19 minutes (same as Pat) including a long stint at the end without tiring out. Together, Pat and Big Dog combined for 19 points on 9-15 from the field and 12 rebounds. That's solid scoring and rebounding at the 5.

Add Tree to the mix and the 3 bigs produced 36 points on 15-28 from the field and 24 rebounds. That level of performance will win a lot of games for the Zips as long as the wings and guards are contributing their fair share.

At the 2/3, Nick had a bad shooting night ended by what appeared to be a back spasm. Q knocked down 5-5 free throws and had 4 steals, but like Nick was cold from the field along with Jake and Reggie. There won't be many games where these 4 players combined will go 4-20 from the field.

At the 1, when you get a total of 0 assists, 5 turnovers and 8 points from your two primary PGs, you're in big trouble. The only thing I'll say is that Nyles looked at least somewhat more comfortable and less lost than the CC game, where he couldn't even knock down his free throws. He's a better shooter than he's shown so far, and I think the ball will start falling as he gets more comfortable and relaxed. I'll be satisfied to see Nyles show progress every game. The speed of his progress will have a major effect on how well the Zips do this season. At his current rate of progress, I see Nyles overtaking Melo for the starting position within the next few games as I don't see a lot of progress from Melo.

Kwan is the wild card. He only played 9 minutes and nailed his first 3 but then missed a pair of treys. At times he looked lost on defense, which is typical of true freshmen in their first game against a quality opponent. Like Nyles, the speed of his development will be important to the Zips' success this season.

Right now I'm expecting the Zips to have a good but not great regular season. If a few players show good development and they all come together as a more cohesive team, they could peak at tournament time. If they don't, the negativism on this forum will become oppressive.

[Derrt]

Am I crazy for thinking this lineup could work for a short stint when we play bigger teams?

1.Diggs

2. Krezter (spelling) / McAdam

3. Tree/Harney

4. Big Dog

5. Pat

[Dave in Green]

If they had Jimmal Ball, we win by 5. If a frog had wings...

That totally misses the point of my post, which didn't mention the "if" word. The point is that everyone knew the Zips were going to miss Zeke protecting the rim this season, and that it's up to the team to adapt to Zeke's absence with a different defensive scheme that requires everyone to step up and compensate. They didn't do it well in this game, and will suffer the consequences on defense until they do.

[Dave in Green]

@I speak truth, I think your tall lineup could work in rare situations. Big Dog is a pure center who needs to be close to the basket, but Pat has a good outside shot that he never gets to take while playing center. I suggested last season letting Pat pop from the corner while Zeke and Tree controlled the boards. But that never happened. This season I think Coach Dambrot is looking at Kwan to fill the role of the tall, outside popper. But if Big Dog should displace Pat from starting center and get most of the minutes, I'd like to see Pat at least get a chance to show what he can do from outside. Just stick him in the corner, hit him with a pass when he's open and let him shoot over any defender who tries to charge him.

Right now I think the Zips' most pressing problem is how to deal with smaller teams with quicker, more athletic players who blow by the defensive coverage. The way the Gaels picked the Zips' pockets and beat them to the rim last night was a big warning flag.

[akronzips71]

Some tend to focus more on the positive points and some on the negative. Nothing new there. Every Zips fan agrees that the final result was negative, so no surprise that there'd be a lot of negative in this thread. Since others are much better at focusing on the negative that I am, I'll try to stick mostly with positive observations even though I can clearly see the negatives as well.

Obviously, Tree performed as expected. He's going to get even better as the season goes on. The 4 spot is solid.

At the 5, Pat looked a little better on offense, taking the ball to the basket aggressively and hitting 3-4 from the field. He's going to have to overcome the turnovers and fouls, though, because Big Dog is breathing down his neck for the starting position with a performance that exceeded expectations. Big Dog showed that he can effectively block out, establish rebounding position, catch and control passes, feed the open man, make spin moves to the bucket and with his soft touch get the ball to fall better than 50% of the time, all against above average D1 players. He played 19 minutes (same as Pat) including a long stint at the end without tiring out. Together, Pat and Big Dog combined for 19 points on 9-15 from the field and 12 rebounds. That's solid scoring and rebounding at the 5.

Add Tree to the mix and the 3 bigs produced 36 points on 15-28 from the field and 24 rebounds. That level of performance will win a lot of games for the Zips as long as the wings and guards are contributing their fair share.

At the 2/3, Nick had a bad shooting night ended by what appeared to be a back spasm. Q knocked down 5-5 free throws and had 4 steals, but like Nick was cold from the field along with Jake and Reggie. There won't be many games where these 4 players combined will go 4-20 from the field.

At the 1, when you get a total of 0 assists, 5 turnovers and 8 points from your two primary PGs, you're in big trouble. The only thing I'll say is that Nyles looked at least somewhat more comfortable and less lost than the CC game, where he couldn't even knock down his free throws. He's a better shooter than he's shown so far, and I think the ball will start falling as he gets more comfortable and relaxed. I'll be satisfied to see Nyles show progress every game. The speed of his progress will have a major effect on how well the Zips do this season. At his current rate of progress, I see Nyles overtaking Melo for the starting position within the next few games as I don't see a lot of progress from Melo.

Kwan is the wild card. He only played 9 minutes and nailed his first 3 but then missed a pair of treys. At times he looked lost on defense, which is typical of true freshmen in their first game against a quality opponent. Like Nyles, the speed of his development will be important to the Zips' success this season.

Right now I'm expecting the Zips to have a good but not great regular season. If a few players show good development and they all come together as a more cohesive team, they could peak at tournament time. If they don't, the negativism on this forum will become oppressive.

Excellent analysis, and especially about Kwan. He really did look lost.

BUT, I think that is due in part to the fact that he is somewhere between a 4 and a 5, which he never was until that growth spurt. KD should probably lock him into one position for the time being, until he matures. Having a guy 6'10" who can shoot threes is going to bode well for the future.

And I must eat my words about Big Dog. His first appearance against Bluffington was not impressive, but this time was way different. He did a good job of handling Walso, who is a real load. He has a nice touch around the rim. And he did not give up the ball, refreshing for a raw freshman.

I think the full court press has to go. St. M had no problem for the most part beating the press, and that results in easy layups and dunks. Plus, it tires the heck out of our guys to play that way.

I know they are still adjusting, but the BIG problems looks to be at the 1. The three pointers will start dropping, but the passing was just awful, and not just from the PG's. Everyone was telegraphing their passes.

Keep in mind that St. M is a VERY good team, with a strong Dance resume. There is no shame losing to this team at 5 AM in the start of the season, and frankly, we handled them in the first half. The second half totally got away from us, and it didn't have to. There was a cover on the hoop and that happens some times.

[Zipgrad01]

Excellent analysis, and especially about Kwan. He really did look lost.

BUT, I think that is due in part to the fact that he is somewhere between a 4 and a 5, which he never was until that growth spurt. KD should probably lock him into one position for the time being, until he matures. Having a guy 6'10" who can shoot threes is going to bode well for the future.

And I must eat my words about Big Dog. His first appearance against Bluffington was not impressive, but this time was way different. He did a good job of handling Walso, who is a real load. He has a nice touch around the rim. And he did not give up the ball, refreshing for a raw freshman.

I think the full court press has to go. St. M had no problem for the most part beating the press, and that results in easy layups and dunks. Plus, it tires the heck out of our guys to play that way.

I know they are still adjusting, but the BIG problems looks to be at the 1. The three pointers will start dropping, but the passing was just awful, and not just from the PG's. Everyone was telegraphing their passes.

Keep in mind that St. M is a VERY good team, with a strong Dance resume. There is no shame losing to this team at 5 AM in the start of the season, and frankly, we handled them in the first half. The second half totally got away from us, and it didn't have to. There was a cover on the hoop and that happens some times.

I could be entirely off, but I believe that Dambrot is so insistent on running the press because he sees it as a way to get easy points in trasition because he knows that our PG situation is so terrible and we have zero chance of beating teams if we have to do it by running half court sets. It is absolutely painful watching our half court offense. There is zero off ball movement and the only movement in general is about 30 feet from the basket at the top of the key and not much of it moves "toward" the basket. It is all side to side.

[LZIp]

If he is insistent on running the press because we have our PG situation, then I have to blame nobody but him for being in that position. Yes, it was impossible to figure in the AA situation..but it is still his duty as a coach to recruit a quality back up PG. Think about every other position on the team right now..I would feel confident that our back ups at ANY other position could come in and do a solid job if a starter went down. Might have to change the scheme some, but we have back ups that can play. Cannot say that that any of our PGs (starter or back ups) can provide us solid play. I think he has no choice but to ride with Evans and let him get accustomed to D1 play because of his potential, something which I unfortunately see Melo has none of.

Think of how many mid-majors in the NCAA make noise without solid PG play. In fact, one can argue an elite PG is all you need to make a run in the NCAAs (see Cooper, Curry). That's how important having someone at that position that can play is.

[mes102]

Don't even get me started on inbounding the ball in the half-court. Looked a lot easier with Zeke, but now without him. Wow, is it scary bad

[Gcc]

Glad to have Q back and he is a welcome addition. Looks like at many times during the first 2 games he is playing "hero" ball with no cape. The make up of the team has changed over the last year. The offense needs to run inside out and it looks like he is trying to make up for shots he missed last year. When you play inside out and the defense collapses it opens up the perimeter for the great shooters we have....Q included. An open 3 beats a contested off the dribble 3 any day!!!!

Ditto on all observations and comments about Big Dog and Tree. Big Dog looks ready!!!

[skip-zip]

If he is insistent on running the press because we have our PG situation, then I have to blame nobody but him for being in that position. Yes, it was impossible to figure in the AA situation..but it is still his duty as a coach to recruit a quality back up PG.

I have to wonder about the same thing, especially since it's been a problem for awhile.

Ever since Dru and Dials were in the backcourt together, we've been scrambling a bit for depth with guys who could handle the ball. If you recall, both Dials and McNees both started running the point out of necessity.

Then, I think the real glut occurred when Humpty, Sullivan, and Steward all transferred out at the same time. This was followed by McNees and Roberts both graduating the following year. At that point (no pun intended), the depth went from average, at best, to almost non-existent.

Even with AA still having one year remaining, you would think that we would have already been working on this situation last year. Was he really sold on Evans, Betancourt, or both? I don't know.

[Z.I.P.]

I could be entirely off, but I believe that Dambrot is so insistent on running the press because he sees it as a way to get easy points in trasition because he knows that our PG situation is so terrible and we have zero chance of beating teams if we have to do it by running half court sets. It is absolutely painful watching our half court offense. There is zero off ball movement and the only movement in general is about 30 feet from the basket at the top of the key and not much of it moves "toward" the basket. It is all side to side.

I cannot BEGIN to express the depression I felt at the late hour of midnight when this game ended -- OK, that might seem early to some. I know that we managed to sneak up on Florida State, Temple and someone else once (Creighton before McDermott? Come on!), but we have been incapable of winning the pressure game like last night or an NCAA game, and I am frustrated beyond belief! Arrrrrrrgh, matey!

Folks, there is no way you can blame the Akron shooters for the team's inability to make 3-pointers vs SMC. Indeed, as Zipgrad says, there is NO ball rotation, no motion, and NO Rhythm! Shooters must have open looks in the rhythm of the offensive set, and that is impossible when the offense is as one-dimensional as it was in Moraga las'night. No matter HOW good Tree and BD look (and as the announcer(s) said, Treadwell had to have multiple O boards of his own misses to score as much as he did), if your only intent is to throw it down low and dominate the post, then you have less than a complete offense. What happened to the type of quick pass plays we had most of the games I saw on TV last year, and remember how Steve McNees used to look in the day when he was such a 3-point threat? Akron has no outside threat, as long as they're only interested in dumping it down low. The coaches have to accept responsibility, and nobody should put it on a couple of sophomore wings. Now let's get ready to rumble in Tennessee, as our next opponent is another NCAA tournament team!

A quick mention: Quincy looked better than I've ever seen him in my limited viewership -- he's clearly the on-court leader of this team -- he is focused like no one else in blue and beige.

[Dave in Green]

On inbounding the ball, I agree that's another area where the Zips were spoiled by the ease of passing in to Zeke. They should have been more prepared with a viable alternative to not having Zeke, just as they needed to be more prepared for defense without Zeke the rim protector. Those are two priority areas that need work immediately.

On the shortage of point guards, I agree that's the head coach's responsibility. Coach Dambrot did a great job of finding a sleeper talent from Puerto Rico in the form of Rico. When he got a tip from Puerto Rico that another sleeper PG was available who was as talented or better than Rico, he signed Melo as Rico's heir apparent. When Melo didn't develop as quickly as Rico, Coach Dambrot signed an experienced JC PG in the form of Nyles. At that point he thought he had one proven PG and two backups to battle this season to replace Rico next season. And then stuff happened.

UA is not Kentucky or Duke or Michigan State. We don't get the "can't miss" players. Coach Dambrot has to gamble, and he's done a really nice job of upgrading the wings and bigs. He also did a nice job in finding Rico. The jury is still out on the two remaining PGs. One or both may come around and really surprise us by the end of the season. If not, Coach Dambrot will make the most of what he's got because that's what he does. Maybe Q makes a miraculous transformation into an all-star PG. Who knows? In retrospect there's no way the Zips should have won the MAC tournament last season missing their star PG. But they upset the Sweet 16 darlings from the previous season who returned all their starters and were projected to blow out the Rico-less Zips at the Q.

So things don't look so great right now. But as long as Coach Dambrot is steering the ship, things are likely to look better when it matters the most.

[gozips19]

I too stayed up late to watch the game last night. Everyone already mentioned that Tree and Big dog played good. What stood out to me in addition to that was the teams ability to get quality looks inside despite not being able to make a jump shot. This bodes well for the team. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd like to see Q be a little more aggressive with the ball in his hands. Right now he's the guy that can penetrate and kick out to the shooters. Teams will continue to "pack it in" on this team as their front court is so strong. Evans will need to learn the point on the fly much like McNess and AA before him. Both were score first guards that needed to learn the point. I have nothing to base this on (2 games) but think he'll be antiquate come mid season. Carmelo is a lost cause and should only be playing 10mins a game. I would hope this will be his last year with the team as KD needs to use his scholarship on the best pure point he can find for next year. Definitely not ready to hit the panic button. This team was still in the game in the second half when they couldn't throw it in the ocean. They played a top notch opponent on the road with a crazy start time. KD will figure this out. He has the horses to do so.

[Jalapeño Zippy]

There's a couple of things we need to remember as we discuss the point guard situation. The unexpected departure of AA accelerated the need for Melo. He wasn't ready and still isn't. This was going to be another year of him gaining confidence in his game. What happened with AA forced Melo into action early which is not good for a player like Melo. AA was very instinctive, he could handle the presuure. Melo, on the other hand, relies on his training. If it doesn't go the way it should, he struggles creating chances whereas AA always seemed to thrive in those situations.

Melo has yet to show that he can make outside shots. He struggles with his decisions when he penetrates into the lane and the offense is stagnant when he is out there running the show.

I have faith in Nyles, I think he is going to come around. Right now though, until Nyles further grasps the role that Keith expects the PG position to play there is going to be huge bumps in the road. So until that happens, all's we have are two solid back-ups who are doing the best they can in the situation they were put in.

Also, Dambrot is seemingly looking for a PG every couple of years but for some reason always falls short in the recruiting. He recruited Stevie Taylor who is now getting big minutes at OU and also, with this recent class he was recruiting Jack Gibbs who ended up at Davidson if I remember correctly.

[taxpayer]

Melo lacks what AA had in abundance confidence & swag. I believe Melo can and will be the main PG if HE BELIEVES he should be. He feels bad when he has a TO, AA had no conscience. KD allowed AA a very long leash, I think he will have to lengthen Melo's and let him play. Rough in the short term but will pay dividends by January.

[legendofzippy]

last year against North Dakota State Univ. at home.

We need a signature ROAD win.

Why? First off, the Miss State victory was pretty nice, but why do we "need" any of this? Coach Dambrot has built the premier program in the MAC. Quit whining and enjoy the ride.

[zippy5]

AA had no conscience.

You can say that again.

Melo is way too tentative. Passes up wide open shots and layups. Pass first is nice, but he's gotta take the open looks, the defense doesn't even have to respect him. I don't know if it's a confidence thing, but it's hard to think he went D-1 with 0 scoring ability.

[zippy5]

Why? First off, the Miss State victory was pretty nice, but why do we "need" any of this? Coach Dambrot has built the premier program in the MAC. Quit whining and enjoy the ride.

We don't need anything but it's fun to watch when they win

[Dave in Green]

I'm enjoying the ride the Zips are currently providing. It's a lot of fun going to games year after year with confidence that there's a 70% chance of winning and without suffering through down seasons or rebuilding seasons. It's really satisfying to be confident the team will win 22 or more games every season and make it to the MAC tournament championship game. Life is good for Zips basketball fans. But the whole concept of sports is to always try to do better. We know the Zips could be even better, and we want that for them and us. It can get a little frustrating consistently hanging at about the same level, even when that level is pretty high.

So I think it's fair to talk about what's "needed" to break through to the next level -- to win more games against ranked opponents, to win NCAA tournament games, to command the same level of national respect as a VCU, Butler or Gonzaga. I just think that we should try to avoid getting upset and angry when the Zips fall a little short of taking that next step forward. Following Zips basketball should give us enjoyment, not make us miserable. We need to have realistic expectations for what the Zips basketball program is accomplishing compared to other programs with similar resources.

Personally, I really enjoy the discussions we have here about what the Zips "need" to take that next step up. We all have different perspectives, and I've learned a lot from listening to what others have to say. I feel sorry for those few perpetually negative posters who apparently get no enjoyment from what the Zips are accomplishing and offer no realistic suggestions for improvement. It's OK to want more, but appreciate what you already have.

[Dr Z]

Why?

Staff and team goal.

[legendofzippy]

Staff and team goal.

We all know what the goals are, but those who whine about the lack of a tourney win or a huge road win can piss off as far as I'm concerned. Team and staff work hard and have given us plenty, they don't owe anyone anything.