Downtown Arena!

[Hilltopper]

Another option is to stop sending pot smokers to jail and just give them a monetary fine.

"Pot smoking" is already a misdemeanor crime. You get the equivalent of a speeding ticket.

[Zipmeister]

If you combine a new jail with an arena you would get a built in bump in bb game attendance.

[Lee Adams]

Without looking it up,how much water goes over Niagara Falls in an hour. Right,who cares? (That is except maybe the guy going over in a barrel.)

Many people,will simply not vote for any additional tax no matter what the purpose. Many will not support any new tax dollars going to a sports venue in Akron for the UofA and the city that will benefit few,and will likely not generate the 'promised' economic boost to Summit County in its entirety. And,some will not support any additional tax dollars going to jail upgrades specifically or to the Sheriff's Department in general. Having some knowledge of the state of the jail due to my employment,upgrades have been needed for years. They have been doing emergency(early) releases of prisoners for years. They usually send them to the Glenwood 'Jail'. That way Jim Lawrence and his Oriana House operation gets our tax dollars. Its too bad these issues were coupled. The community needs an upgraded jail more than a downtown arena.

[BirdZip]

If you combine a new jail with an arena you would get a built in bump in bb game attendance.

Yes, but we'd lose our home court advantage when playing K-ent.

Damn--that was funnier before the Abreu debacle.

[taxpayer]

Even though a new arena is desperately needed for Akron mens & womens basketball teams for recruiting purposes and by the University (better gameday revenue) if you are a believer in the "if you build it, they will come" argument, I don't see it happening for the next 7 or 8 years. Most taxpayers are at a point that any additional taxes, no matter how small, aren't acceptable. I believe taxpayers have the same response to proposed taxes: Tighten up your belt like the rest of us have.

With that said, the JAR's status quo isn't acceptable either. It will always be a less than desirable facility but it's possible to change it's grade from D to at least C+. A renovation plan is necessary. The lack of a temporary "home court" dictates performing improvements over at least two years and maybe three if you'd like to tackle the obvious exterior warts as well. The type of and the configuration of seating is public enemy #1. Followed by pathetic entrances, lobby and concessions. I believe it feasible to remove all the bleachers, install steeper stairs and chairback seating with fan entrances coming from under/behind the new seating structure. Add several restrooms and concession areas under the new seating system as well. I will continue my continual request to remove the media tables from courtside so boo$ter$ can occupy prime real estate. Dedicate a section of seating for students only. I liked the idea of several players visiting dorms and student groups to speak with students and requesting they attend games as part of the Akron experience as students. I'll leave the problem of lack of student community & involvement to others. KD is keeping up his side of the equation, if you want to get to the next level this needs to happen now.

[Lee Adams]

Yawn. Time for a nap.

[taxpayer]

Nothing better than NE Ohio apathy! Maybe this will pass; just need to identify the 57 souls who still care enough to vote and present them with forum facts.

[Balsy]

It will pass. We will have a new arena within the next few years. #ZipsGoodKarma (lets get it trending).

[GP1]

Coming to an Akron City Council meeting near you?

Looks like even the people in Cobb County, GA can figure out that a new arena isn't worth the money. Seems the mayor can't figure it out though.

Did anyone see Real Sports this week? A great segment on the White Elephants left behind after World Cups and Olympics. Where will Akron house this white elephant after it is completed?

[skip-zip]

Coming to an Akron City Council meeting near you?

Looks like even the people in Cobb County, GA can figure out that a new arena isn't worth the money. Seems the mayor can't figure it out though.

I loved how they stacked the deck with those "in favor" getting to speak. Very shrewd.

I keep bringing up this point. If it is going to be publicly funded, how does an arena for a mid-level D-1 program who shares local allegiance with another D-1 school 15 min. down the road stack up against the support of public funding for an MLB baseball team with far-reaching fan support?

If the residents in a county in Georgia are this angry about funding for the Braves, where does Summit County stand with the Zips? There's hundreds of thousands of people in this area who couldn't care less about Akron athletics. That's certainly not the case in the Atlanta area in regards to the Braves, yet they have strong opposition. Lets be realistic here, this is an incredible uphill battle. MOST people will see cost and no benefit. We'll have to hope for a major snowstorm to keep them away from the ballot boxes. We're not the Browns, Indians, or Cavs. Our allegiance is a drop in a huge bucket of water compared to theirs.

This will all culminate in the Zips building their own arena with their own money in 8-10 years. And that's the way they want it.

[GP1]

This will all culminate in the Zips building their own arena with their own money in 8-10 years. And that's the way they want it.

Good post. UofA funding it's own arena is the best solution.

The one given we know of is that the arena will never pay for itself in terms of construction and maintenance costs. Others are going to have to kick in extra money. Why should only the people within Summit Co. be the ones to shoulder the burden for the arena through higher taxes when people from surrounding counties will take advantage of Zips games also? It simply doesn't make sense.

UofA is a public institution of the State of Ohio. As such, if they want to go on these nutty building excursions, UofA along with the taxpayers of the entire State of Ohio should shoulder the risk and burden.

[skip-zip]

UofA is a public institution of the State of Ohio. As such, if they want to go on these nutty building excursions, UofA along with the taxpayers of the entire State of Ohio should shoulder the risk and burden.

I do get the logic here. It would be accessible to anyone, yet only people within these borders would be paying for it.

[GP1]

I do get the logic here. It would be accessible to anyone, yet only people within these borders would be paying for it.

It's more about ownership than geography. The State of Ohio owns their university system. Therefore, the citizens of Ohio own the university system. As such, everyone in Ohio should be responsible for the nutty behavior of their universities and pay the taxes necessary to support the nutty behavior.

[Balsy]

It's more about ownership than geography. The State of Ohio owns their university system. Therefore, the citizens of Ohio own the university system. As such, everyone in Ohio should be responsible for the nutty behavior of their universities and pay the taxes necessary to support the nutty behavior.

Than you would have to get into the equally painful discussion about shared profits...because if the taxpayers are shouldering the burden, then all counties should benefit from it, which I'm sure the city hosting it would object to. I'm actually an advocate of this when it comes to funding of public education, or anything public.

However I'd like to bring up the post I made earlier about the cost it would have on average families in the county...roughly $59 a year. People get up in arms about tax increases because of principal, rather than impact. I'm not entirely sure what the Georgia situation is...a sin tax, sales tax or income tax...but if it's not an income tax, everyone really needs to calm down...it really won't have much impact on them...period. Income tax, or property tax probably would...so I'd understand the the outrage if that was the case.

I also don't think it would become a "White Elephant" because it will be used By the Zips for a good portion of the year. Hell, it'd be getting more use than the Big Dialer!

[skip-zip]

Income tax, or property tax probably would...so I'd understand the the outrage if that was the case.

You're missing the most important element of all of this.

The lower your income, the more you are affected by a sales tax increase. It's unlike the other two taxes in that respect. If you have low income and don't own property, you don't care much about a property tax hike. And if you are lower in income, you don't pay income tax either. But everyone pays sales tax, in the same amount, regardless of your income.

So now, your closest geographic beneficiaries of this new "entertainment complex" are the 230,000 residents of the City of Akron. And the last time I checked, the median household income in Akron was about 30k.....that's household....not individual. And that's nearly half the population of the entire county.

Lets all do the math. How many of these people are probably gung-ho about a new Zips basketball complex? Or, how many are concert-goers with plenty of disposable income for high-ticket family entertainment, who are clamoring for another venue that they have to pay for on top of the event ticket prices?

It just isn't adding up for me. And I know there's people who already know this. Plan B (or, the real Plan A) is already in the works.

[Spin]

How did the city finance Canal Park? Not that that's really related to this project, since the Canton-Akron Indians threatened to move before Akron announced CP (ala the Indians and the NFL). The Zips can't threaten to move. And the economy is a lot different than it was in 1996.

With the design limitations all they have to sell is Zips basketball. Don't hold your breath.

[GP1]

Than you would have to get into the equally painful discussion about shared profits...because if the taxpayers are shouldering the burden, then all counties should benefit from it, which I'm sure the city hosting it would object to. I'm actually an advocate of this when it comes to funding of public education, or anything public.

Profit assumes the facility would pay for itself and there would be some left over. Publicly financed stadiums don't pay for themselves. That's the whole point of the nine articles I posted earlier in this thread. It's the point of the anger in Cobb County. They are white elephants that require ongoing taxpayer money to support their upkeep.

I'll say it again. I have no problem with communities building these stadiums if that's what the community wants to do after it has been presented to them in an honest manner. We shouldn't proceed with the notion that they will pay for themselves and the taxpayers should be fully informed of the financial burden the arenas will put on the community for 80+ years.

[skip-zip]

How did the city finance Canal Park? Not that that's really related to this project, since the Canton-Akron Indians threatened to move before Akron announced CP (ala the Indians and the NFL). The Zips can't threaten to move. And the economy is a lot different than it was in 1996.

With the design limitations all they have to sell is Zips basketball. Don't hold your breath.

I believe that it was paid for exclusively by the City of Akron. If someone has more info., please provide.

Today, at least, the city makes money from the stadium by leasing it to the minor league team. I'm sure that was the case with the Aeros too.

[GP1]

Lets all do the math. How many of these people are probably gung-ho about a new Zips basketball complex? Or, how many are concert-goers with plenty of disposable income for high-ticket family entertainment, who are clamoring for another venue that they have to pay for on top of the event ticket prices?

Love this and your point goes straight to how misguided these arenas are. You're right, $59 may not sound like a lot, but half the county is living at the $30K household level. Kids in school?...$59 buys two pairs of jeans, maybe three. A tank of gas costs between forty and fifty dollars.

"But GP1, it is spread out over a year so it won't hurt them that bad." Are you freaking kidding me? They are already getting killed. The obscenity that is the tax burden in NE Ohio should not be extended to include a new arena so the same 4,500 people who pack the JAR will be able to go sit in a new 10,000 seat arena surrounded by 5,500 empty seats.

[infofan]

GP1 -the median household income in summit county is 47,900, not 30K. and the arena is not a "zips basketball complex" as you call it. It will hold 70- 90 events a year (20 zip games are just over a quarter of those). I may not be "clamoring " for another venue but would welcome an alternative to going to cleveland or toledo or pittsburgh for concerts. dont fool yourself, zip basketball wont always be good. Whats the sense in waiting to build an arena in 10-15 years when it will cost 130 million and the zips will be winning 8 games a year? this may well fail but i dont get why youre so negative toward the idea. I say the pluses outwigh the negatives.

[GP1]

GP1 -the median household income in summit county is 47,900, not 30K. and the arena is not a "zips basketball complex" as you call it. It will hold 70- 90 events a year (20 zip games are just over a quarter of those). I may not be "clamoring " for another venue but would welcome an alternative to going to cleveland or toledo or pittsburgh for concerts. dont fool yourself, zip basketball wont always be good. Whats the sense in waiting to build an arena in 10-15 years when it will cost 130 million and the zips will be winning 8 games a year? this may well fail but i dont get why youre so negative toward the idea. I say the pluses outwigh the negatives.

Thanks for the correction. I was going off of another post that noted the Akron median income.

I'm not negative towards the idea. I'm negative about the dishonest manner in which these stadium financing schemes are presented to the public. Here is what I really want and since I don't live in Ohio any longer, I think it is a great idea. I want the Zips to get a new arena owned and operated by UofA. Then, I want all of you saps who live in Ohio to pay for the upkeep of the Arena through your tax dollars because the State has nothing better to finance. I don't want a new arena at the expense of education/research or financed by increased student fees placed on students.

Lastly and most importantly, the Zips are not going to become a 8 win team in the next 15 years. I anticipate Akron winning 20 games a year for the next ten years at least. It would take the wheels falling off the bus, or a remarkable increase in the quality of the MAC for anything less than that to happen.

[Hilltopper]

Please stop trying to paint this tax as just a way to get the Zips basketball program a new arena. The sales tax is supposed to generate $20 million a year. The arena will get $7 million and the county will use the other $13 mill to finance the jail and other county operations. That's a 35-65% split of revenue. So if you can accept the $59 per year cost to the average household that means less than $20 per year for the arena. Less than the cost of one trip to Mickey D's for a family of four.

[Spin]

Has the university checked out naming rights sponsors and hit up the alumni in an attempt to build their own gym errrrrr single-purpose "arena"?

I haven't been contacted yet. They've been trying to get their hands in my pockets since I graduated (almost as much as they were when I was in school) but I haven't heard anything about a new gym yet.

[GP1]

Please stop trying to paint this tax as just a way to get the Zips basketball program a new arena. The sales tax is supposed to generate $20 million a year. The arena will get $7 million and the county will use the other $13 mill to finance the jail and other county operations. That's a 35-65% split of revenue. So if you can accept the $59 per year cost to the average household that means less than $20 per year for the arena. Less than the cost of one trip to Mickey D's for a family of four.

Interesting study presented by Hilltopper and one that makes me wonder if it could ever pass. What is interesting is the motivation for voting. It seems to me there are three motivations here that would render a person to vote "yes" on the tax:

1. Voter wants to support the Zips.

2. Voter wants to support the county.

3. Voter wants to support the Zips and the county.

All three options result in a person voluntarily increasing his/her taxes $59 per year per household.

To me, it's hard to sell this on the first or second reasons without someone against the tax saying the proponents are being dishonest about what the entire tax is being used for. They can create an air of distrust in the voting population. It would create a good source of negative campaign adds by the opposition and studies show negative ads work better than positive ads.

People in the suburbs tend to have more money and are more conservative in their voting choices. Hard to get a Republican in Green, Stow or Hudson to vote for a tax that is not going to put something directly in their own town regardless of their feelings for the Zips. It's hard enough to get them to vote for a school levy, let along a tax for the county and an arena. Thank God I no longer live in a state that funds schools through levies and property taxes that can be voted on. Less nonsense to listen to come election time.

I don't think I'm letting the cat out of the bag here by saying there are more minorities in urban areas than suburban areas. This study (page 8) shows minorities are less likely to trust the prison system but have better feeling about the overall criminal justice system. Make me wonder why in the heck they framed this issue as upgrades to the county jail and not "law enforcement upgrades". Anyhow, a tax is a tax regardless of where it is going or how it is cut up. $59 means a lot to someone living in Akron where the median income is $31K per year.

Group 3 should be given for the proponents of the tax, but how many of them are really there?

I really don't see how this passes. Ever look at a great car with a horrible paint color? There is normally one on every lot. You love the car, but can't get past the color. While there is a market for the car with the bad color, it is small. If it was bigger, the dealership would have more of that color on the lot. To win an election, one needs to convince a big market. Right now, this tax has been presented as a great car with a horrible color and there is no way to order another color.

This entire issue has been poorly handled and presented to the public and it should disappoint those in favor of an arena, such as The Great GP1 as I no longer live in Akron and don't care if you guys get taxed until your noses bleed. How? They presented what should have been Plan B as Plan A. If UofA, over the next 5-10 years, somehow can't come up with the money as a Plan A, then fall back to Plan B. If this tax fails, it makes it pretty easy for a legislator in Columbus from outside of NE Ohio to say, "Why would we give you the money to build it yourself. The election shows you cannot support the arena because the public doesn't support it."

"Patience you must have my young Padawan." - Yoda

[lance99]

I said this before in other threads. The other option is to get corporate donors for the new arena. I have said from the start that there is only one company that can write the entire check to do it.

The have the cash now to do something, the question will be will the be approached since the are completely committed to the community?