9100 Attendance

[ZippyRulz]

How would anyone who was not actually present at the ABJ interview with Dr. Scarborough know what questions were asked and what answers were given? All we know for sure is what the ABJ elected to publish. Do all of those who've dumped on the ABJ in the past for weak journalism trust that this one brief quote accurately represents Dr. Scarborough's thoughts on the subject?

That story & quote were repeated in numerous Ohio and national media outlets. Did SS make any retraction or clarification, or ask the ABJ to do so? If not, he seems to be standing behind it.

[ZippyRulz]

I don't think it could have been any smaller to be allowed as an FBS program

I don't know if there's an FBS stadium capacity requirement, but building a new 15-20K "FBS" stadium would have been the surest sign it was time to pull the plug.

[Dave in Green]

That story & quote were repeated in numerous Ohio and national media outlets. Did SS make any retraction or clarification, or ask the ABJ to do so? If not, he seems to be standing behind it.

That's a really good point. If Dr. Scarborough feels that the selected quote did not fully represent his thoughts on the subject, he's free to communicate directly to his UA constituencies to set the record straight. If he doesn't, then we're all left to believe that he meant exactly what was quoted or that he doesn't think it's important enough to bother correcting what those who believe the worst are assuming. He'll always be walking a tightrope when it comes to discussing athletics because some of his UA constituents believe that Zips athletics are being shortchanged while others believe they already receive too high a priority over academics.

[a-zip]

I really don't know which is better:

• The people that ignore what was reported/quoted in a newspaper column because what wasn't said in the column supports their opinion
• The people that use Akron's football attendance during the 2002-4 football seasons, when Lee Owens was going .500 at the Rubber Bowl, as some sort of proof that football at InfoCision cannot draw crowds
• The people that say Ianello was horrible, that Wistercill was horrible....then use the attendance during those years as proof that football at InfoCision can't draw crowds

Such a tough decision...

OR

• The people that take ONE SINGLE sentence from an article to characterize Dr. Scarborough as someone who is a poor leader, doesn't support athletics, doesn't have a plan and is out to destroy UA athletics (when all he did was speak the obvious)
• The people that ignore Akron's football attendance in….FOREVER and say at 30K seat/$60M stadium is justified
• The people that ignore the embarrassing article showing us as having the worst attendance in the NCAA
• The people that ignore Akron's winning basketball team's attendance in FOREVER and say the community would support a new basketball arena
• The people that blame poor attendance on weekday games, iCoach, poor opponents, OSU conflicts, old stadiums, bad weather, not winning in post season, too many logos, etc.

[Balsy]

OR

• The people that take ONE SINGLE sentence from an article to characterize Dr. Scarborough as someone who is a poor leader, doesn't support athletics, doesn't have a plan and is out to destroy UA athletics (when all he did was speak the obvious)
• The people that ignore Akron's football attendance in….FOREVER and say at 30K seat/$60M stadium is justified
• The people that ignore the embarrassing article showing us as having the worst attendance in the NCAA
• The people that ignore Akron's winning basketball team's attendance in FOREVER and say the community would support a new basketball arena
• The people that blame poor attendance on weekday games,

Everything Scarborough has dones has pretty much shown he's a poor leader. This recent bumble is just icing on the cake.

The problem with the NCAA article is that it didn't address, or bring up the other factors that likely were the biggest contributors to the decrease in attendance. As written the article would leave the reader to believe that Akron has lost attendance because it's...well, Akron. Kick them while they're down who cares about facts? Where as the like contributor to why Akron was worst is the weekday games, and not the team. If that weren't the case, Akron should have won the title of least attendance after 3-33.

[a-zip]

You continue to ignore the fact that we have NEVER had good attendance in ANY of the major sports. NEVER!!!!!

[Spin]

From personal experience working as a student member of an organization that brings thousands of people to the UA campus for an event that raises money for cancer research, UA is unbearably difficult to deal with when it comes to athletic facilities.

That's what those semipro football guys said when they bought the Rubber Bowl instead.

[Spin]

I have two opinions on this subject which haven't changed since I joined this board.

First we cannot calculate who much the Info actually cost the University with out knowing #1 how muc a renovation of the Rubber Bowl would have cost, and #2 how much funding came with the Infocision and Summa naming rights, and the other advertisers who came on board once we had a habitable stadium.

Second we will never know how many people could become Zips fans until we have some semblance of a professional marketing program. If nobody knows Akron has a FBS football team and they're playing a game on September 12, 2015, they're probably not going to come.

This region is full of potential. The AA minor league baseball team broke attendance records and ranked 5th among AAA clubs in attendance. The Cleveland Force was the only profitable indoor soccer franchise and packed 18,000 into the Richfield Coliseum despite never winning a championship. Imagine the potential of main stream sports like college football and college basketball. If done right.

We need to look no further than tOSU to see what a football program can do for a school. Who here really believes it would be as big and famous if not for athletics?

[Dave in Green]

Some good thoughts there, Spin. As far as the cost of renovating the Rubber Bowl, a December 24, 2007, directive from the Ohio Board of Regents states the following in approving the request to pledge student fees by UA in support of general receipts obligation bonds in an aggregate amount not to exceed $185 million to be used to finance the construction of various capital projects on campus, including the new stadium:

When it opens in the fall of 2009, the new stadium will replace the University's aging and deteriorating Rubber Bowl, the University's current football stadium. An independent engineering study recently determined that the renovation costs to maintain the Rubber Bowl would approach $60 million. The University of Akron has determined that it is more cost effective to demolish the current structure, which is 12 miles from the university, and construct a new facility on campus rather than renovate the existing stadium.

[Dr Z]

A study determined that the renovation costs to maintain the Rubber Bowl would approach $60 million. The University has determined that it is more cost effective to demolish the current structure, and construct a new facility on campus rather than renovate the existing stadium.

I often wonder when reading posts here, how many members are unaware of this fact.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I often wonder when reading posts here, how many members are unaware of this fact.

Or the fact that 61 million is chump change for a 27k seat stadium. And you couldn't build it smaller and still be a FBS or FCS program.

It is widely known that InfoCision paid 10 million for the naming rights, and Summa paid 5 million for the field naming rights. And Towpath paid $100,000 for the Press Box naming rights.

Would InfoCision still pay 10 million towards a 20k seat stadium? No. Would Summa still pay 5 million for a 20k stadium? No.

So a big chunk of whatever money saved from building a rinky-dink stadium would be offset by the loss of naming rights revenue.

And interestingly - If we'd have built an FCS stadium, the guy that coached our loss to Gardner Webb would have lost an additional 10 games to FCS schools every year. And we'd be in the same boat we're in today.

Except Scarborough probably would be saying "I wouldn't have dropped the program to FCS."

[Dave in Green]

There's no doubt in my mind that two unforeseen events badly damaged what was an otherwise sound plan to replace the crumbling Rubber Bowl with a new on-campus stadium. The first was the big recession, which unfortunately struck after the project had been approved and was already underway. The second was the unfortunate hiring of a disastrous head coach who sunk the Zips to the absolute bottom of the FBS. It almost brings tears to my eyes to imagine where we might be right now if the new stadium had debuted in 2009 in a healthy economy and Coach Bowden had taken over the team in 2010.

I honestly can't believe that if Dr. Scarborough was leading UA in 2007 that he wouldn't have looked at all the available data and agreed that building that stadium was absolutely the right thing to do under the existing circumstances. I will continue to be perplexed by that infamous one-liner in the ABJ until some kind of clarification is issued.

[a-zip]

This is the reality I am speaking of…. (embarrassing again we are used as an example of why NOT to build THAT stadium)

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/01/05/temple-university-stadium-100-million-dollar-bad-idea/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/14/sports/ncaafootball/fresno-state-faces-the-task-of-keeping-up-with-the-big-5s.html?_r=0

http://articles.philly.com/2015-01-05/sports/57711037_1_infocision-stadium-football-stadium-stadium-decision

[Balsy]

This is the reality I am speaking of…. (embarrassing again we are used as an example of why NOT to build THAT stadium..

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/01/05/temple-university-stadium-100-million-dollar-bad-idea/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/14/sports/ncaafootball/fresno-state-faces-the-task-of-keeping-up-with-the-big-5s.html?_r=0

It doesn't matter if we shouldn't have built that stadium, because the reality is that we have that stadium, and none of this negative press or perceptions could have been predicted.

So, as a leader of an institution that has THAT stadium, you need to rise to it. A leader is supposed to rise the occasion. Scarborough seems to love plans and initiatives, what are his plans and initiatives foor THAT stadium? Oh...it's to go out and blame other people, and to do nothing. Poor, poor, poor leadership.

[a-zip]

It doesn't matter if we shouldn't have built that stadium, because the reality is that we have that stadium, and none of this negative press or perceptions could have been predicted.

So, as a leader of an institution that has THAT stadium, you need to rise to it. A leader is supposed to rise the occasion. Scarborough seems to love plans and initiatives, what are his plans and initiatives foor THAT stadium? Oh...it's to go out and blame other people, and to do nothing. Poor, poor, poor leadership.

The point is….the information in those article paints a pretty harsh reality for the future of college athletics. The previous administration had that information, right? They took that information and felt it was a wise decision to build that stadium for $65M when we had never even approached 30,000 in attendance. We all agree renovating the Rubber Bowls did not make sense. The question is…..was it a smart decision to continue to pursue D1 football when your community does not support ANY of your programs. For schools like ODU (who is planning a new stadium) it is a different story because they sell out their existing stadium. This isn't the FIELD OF DREAMS movie.

Dr. SS got rid of TW for a start right?!? Isn't that something we can ALL agree should have been done years ago?!?! To me, he has addressed the MAJOR issue pretty quickly. If you are expecting in depth information on the other plans, be prepared to be disappointed. I wouldn't expect any major announcements until a new AD is in place.

[a-zip]

Do you all think there would be an outcry in the community (like at UAB) if Akron announced it was dropping football? Maybe a good poll...

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/national_pundits_scoff_at_retu.html

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25201823/uab-football-is-back-future-questions-remain-about-reinstatement

[Dr Z]

Dr. S got rid of TW for a start right? Isn't that something we can ALL agree should have been done years ago?

I agree to nothing yet. Who is the replacement, and what are his goals? A great artist once wrote, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I won't get fooled again.

[ZippyRulz]

On the bright side, SS has stated that attendance will be a key metric in evaluations of the new AD. It gives me a glimmer of hope that he will hire someone with some creativity and marketing skills above all else.

[Dave in Green]

The point is….the information in those article paints a pretty harsh reality for the future of college athletics. The previous administration had that information, right? ...

No, in the 2005-2007 time frame when the previous administration was comparing the cost of a new stadium with the cost of rebuilding the Rubber Bowl they did not have information that has developed over the past decade. The overall outlook and trends have changed rather dramatically in many ways. Based on the information available at the time they prudently downsized seating capacity about 15% from the Rubber Bowl's 35,000+ to less than 30,000 with an option to add seats in the future if warranted.

We've discussed in these threads many of the things that have changed over the past decade. How many Zips games were available on TV 10 years ago? How many on the internet? How much time were students spending on social media instead of social events like football games? How strong was the economy? How advanced were the Power Five conferences in dictating the football landscape to knock down future Boise States and TCUs? Etc., etc.? Hindsight is the understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened. When looking back at and questioning past decisions, it's important to filter out data we now take for granted from prevailing data of the time of the actual decision.

[Zipgrad01]

On the bright side, SS has stated that attendance will be a key metric in evaluations of the new AD. It gives me a glimmer of hope that he will hire someone with some creativity and marketing skills above all else.

Exactly...there is a quote in the manufacturing world that applys to this very thing. "Show me how you measure me and I will tell you how I behave".

We need so set the correct metrics for the new AD position and make sure we have the right person to deliver on those expectations. We also need the right person tracking his progress.

[urbanpreppie05]

No, in the 2005-2007 time frame when the previous administration was comparing the cost of a new stadium with the cost of rebuilding the Rubber Bowl they did not have information that has developed over the past decade. The overall outlook and trends have changed rather dramatically in many ways. Based on the information available at the time they prudently downsized seating capacity about 15% from the Rubber Bowl's 35,000+ to less than 30,000 with an option to add seats in the future if warranted.

We've discussed in these threads many of the things that have changed over the past decade. How many Zips games were available on TV 10 years ago? How many on the internet? How much time were students spending on social media instead of social events like football games? How strong was the economy? How advanced were the Power Five conferences in dictating the football landscape to knock down future Boise States and TCUs? Etc., etc.? Hindsight is the understanding of a situation or event only after it has happened. When looking back at and questioning past decisions, it's important to filter out data we now take for granted from prevailing data of the time of the actual decision.

Bingo.

You could even shrink the timeline down to the last 5 years on how dramatically things have changed.

I think a big assumption was that if they built the stadium, people would automatically come. And they did. And then they started losing- a lot. And they stopped coming. Whoever the new AD is they need to go out into the campus AND the Metro area- all the schools, all the youth groups, local stores, ANYONE tied to Akron- and bring those people here. We can't just expect people to flock to the stadium when it's not even on their radar.

[a-zip]

I agree to nothing yet. Who is the replacement, and what are his goals? A great artist once wrote, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I won't get fooled again.

So you don't agree he got rid of TW? Huh

[Lee Adams]

Whatever 'study' was done was done long after the RB was salvageable. If UofA had renovated the RB when it should have back in the 80's or early 90's at the latest it could have had a decent facility for the caliber of ball that was being played at UofA. Thats a lot of bad water under the bridge.And the mistakes that were made 20 or 30 years ago with the football program are pretty obvious today. Hard to imagine at this point this mess is going to get cleared up any time soon.

[a-zip]

Interesting article…….

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/12/01/akron

“We had a first-year coach, and we also weren’t as competitive on the field as we’d hoped for,” Bach said. “That resulted in lower ticket sales and lower ticket revenue. That’s disappointing to all of us. But, when we look two, three and four years down the road to where we think the program will go, we think we’ll make our revenue goals and hopefully set off some of the losses we’re seeing now.”

Bach said that the athletics department “was not scrambling” to find ways to resolve the shortfall, adding that he and his colleagues are mulling a number of options right now -- long before the budget year is slated to end -- to trim enough to meet it. He also said the department is already thinking about how much revenue it should expect from football ticket sales next year.

The comments below the article are interesting (prophetic)…...

"With 71% of the Athletic Department's budget coming from student fees, did anyone think to consult the students about this? It appears that they have been voting with their feet anyway, not attending the games in very large numbers. So, it seems, students are being asked to pay the price for whose entertainment exactly?"

[zip-O-matic]

Interesting article…….

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/12/01/akron

“We had a first-year coach, and we also weren’t as competitive on the field as we’d hoped for,” Bach said. “That resulted in lower ticket sales and lower ticket revenue. That’s disappointing to all of us. But, when we look two, three and four years down the road to where we think the program will go, we think we’ll make our revenue goals and hopefully set off some of the losses we’re seeing now.”

Bach said that the athletics department “was not scrambling” to find ways to resolve the shortfall, adding that he and his colleagues are mulling a number of options right now -- long before the budget year is slated to end -- to trim enough to meet it. He also said the department is already thinking about how much revenue it should expect from football ticket sales next year.

The comments below the article are interesting (prophetic)…...

"With 71% of the Athletic Department's budget coming from student fees, did anyone think to consult the students about this? It appears that they have been voting with their feet anyway, not attending the games in very large numbers. So, it seems, students are being asked to pay the price for whose entertainment exactly?"

Not a popular opinion, but I believe that athletic subsidies should be banned. We and every other state school in Ohio not named OSU are pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into something that shows no signs of turning around and becoming anything other than a giant money pit. To put UA's subsidy in perspective, each year it is more than twice what our entire endowment disburses. It works out to just about $1,000 per student or 10% of the tuition for an in-state student.