The Cleveland Browns could ruin our soccer pitch

[Zip_ME87]

When world championships were first created in professional baseball, basketball and football, the rest of the world wasn't even playing these sports at a professional level. All the best teams in the world were in the U.S., so whoever won the championship in the U.S. was, by definition, world champion by virtue of being best in the world. Over the years other countries have begun taking up the challenge of fielding professional leagues in these sports, and when they're good enough they will earn a chance to challenge. Until then, the best U.S. professional team is world champion (best in the world) in each of those three sports.

Create one. US Basketball vs other teams in the world. US Baseball vs other teams in the world. I guess we have the Olympics which have basketball but did away with baseball. Doesn't really matter. Just pointing out how conceited those claims are today. Just like the Miami Redskins became the Redhawks, MLB could change their Championship. I guess since we're the only country in the world that plays American Football, the NFL can continue to make its claim. Still seems conceited.

EDIT: Now I'm just ranting in response to others.

[Zip_ME87]

.

[Spin]

When world championships were first created in professional baseball, basketball and football, the rest of the world wasn't even playing these sports at a professional level. All the best teams in the world were in the U.S., so whoever won the championship in the U.S. was, by definition, world champion by virtue of being best in the world. Over the years other countries have begun taking up the challenge of fielding professional leagues in these sports, and when they're good enough they will earn a chance to challenge. Until then, the best U.S. professional team is world champion (best in the world) in each of those three sports.

Not to mention the best in those countries will continue to play here in our major leagues. And coaches (reference the Cavs). They are minor leagues to the North American franchises.

[Balsy]

Cop out when you have no facts to back up your position.

I so look forward to your next well thought out response.

More like I don't have time to respond to a novel written about "facts" that don't really support what you claim they do/don't have time to respond to nonsense about "World Championships".

[Dave in Green]

After thoroughly vetting and dictating unquestionable solutions to the pressing issues of incompetence at UA's executive level and conceit in U.S. professional sports, may I humbly suggest that some of this boundless energy, laser-like focus and limitless supply of points and counterpoints be directed at the spreading Ebola epidemic, continuing conflict in the Mideast and global warming.

[Zip_ME87]

After thoroughly vetting and dictating unquestionable solutions to the pressing issues of incompetence at UA's executive level and conceit in U.S. professional sports, may I humbly suggest that some of this boundless energy, laser-like focus and limitless supply of points and counterpoints be directed at the spreading Ebola epidemic, continuing conflict in the Mideast and global warming.

Importance of these things depends upon your point of view. If you're a current student or a prospective student, mistakes even by well-meaning people who aren't "a disciplined organization, with disciplined people engaged in disciplined thought and actions" that can lead to significant increases in tuition and fees likely matters to you, especially if you're working your butt off and/or racking up significant debt to pay for your education. It's easy for public employees to make decisions without disciplined thought when they're spending someone else's money. I'm glad you already have your degree DiG such that this doesn't matter to you. My nephew, who is currently enrolled at UA, and his mother care deeply about tuition and fee costs, irrespective of Zips Soccer, Zips Football, or the Cleveland Browns.

Conceit in U.S. professional sports doesn't mean anything to me. I only attend MLS games these days. I love watching and keeping in touch with Kofi Sarkodie, DeAndre Yedlin, Caleb Porter, Darlington Nagbe, Michael Nanchoff, Scott Caldwell, Wil Trapp, Chad Barson, and their families, to name a few. EDIT: The games are much more fun to watch when you care about the people playing and the sport itself. Awesome people all of whom I respect and support and who built something great at UA. I refuse to have it and them disrespected by people who are clueless about soccer. EDIT2: Stu Parry, who started Zips Mens Soccer, and his family attend Zips Mens Soccer games. Great people. I won't allow them to be disrespected either. What a slap in the face it would be for Stu Parry to have to see football gridlines on a torn up Cub Cadet Field.

i'm not sure how responsive isis is to document disclosure requests and the threat of litigation

Asking the State Attorney General for a clarification of UA's position on something being a "trade secret" based on case law isn't litigation and not a threat. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not going to try to interpret case law. I don't recall anyone threatening litigation in this thread or any other related threads. Now who's the conspiracy theorist?

[Dave in Green]

As a matter of fact, as an American citizen the rising cost of education does matter to me. I believe a lot of America's greatness is based on a large percentage of the population being better educated. Rising costs lead to fewer citizens being able to afford higher education, which would ultimately lead to a general weakening of our country. From that perspective I support the concept of institutions of higher learning thinking outside the box in pursuing opportunities to generate additional income to offset reduced costs to students. However, it's important that these opportunities offer a solid return on investment and don't interfere with UA's primary obligation to its students.

From that perspective I support UA submitting a preliminary, non-binding bid for the Browns training camp with the understanding that it was done with the obvious handicap of short notice and without the time required to complete due diligence. I have confidence that Dr. Scarborough's well-documented business acumen would cause him to demand a full accounting of all aspects of a business arrangement before signing his name on any contract. His stated lack of belief that UA will win the final bid suggests that he already understands that UA cannot do so with advantageous terms. So, to me, this is a dead issue.

On the other hand, I expect in the future that Dr. Scarborough will consider many other potential business arrangements along similar lines. It's likely that none of these other potential income generators for UA will involve a threat to the Zips soccer field. So as time goes on we'll see if the same level of alarm is raised over future exploratory discussions.

[Zip_ME87]

As a matter of fact, as an American citizen the rising cost of education does matter to me. I believe a lot of America's greatness is based on a large percentage of the population being better educated. Rising costs lead to fewer citizens being able to afford higher education, which would ultimately lead to a general weakening of our country. From that perspective I support the concept of institutions of higher learning thinking outside the box in pursuing opportunities to generate additional income to offset reduced costs to students. However, it's important that these opportunities offer a solid return on investment and don't interfere with UA's primary obligation to its students.

From that perspective I support UA submitting a preliminary, non-binding bid for the Browns training camp with the understanding that it was done with the obvious handicap of short notice and without the time required to complete due diligence. I have confidence that Dr. Scarborough's well-documented business acumen would cause him to demand a full accounting of all aspects of a business arrangement before signing his name on any contract. His stated lack of belief that UA will win the final bid suggests that he already understands that UA cannot do so with advantageous terms. So, to me, this is a dead issue.

On the other hand, I expect in the future that Dr. Scarborough will consider many other potential business arrangements along similar lines. It's likely that none of these other potential income generators for UA will involve a threat to the Zips soccer field. So as time goes on we'll see if the same level of alarm is raised over future exploratory discussions.

I agree this is a dead issue. You also may be correct about future potential business arrangements and whether or not alarms will be raised. I happen to be close enough to this one that I was well aware of some of the potential downsides. So, I was sensitive to it and raised an alarm to those who share my passion in the Soccer forum. As I got into it more, I realized there were potentially more downsides than I had originally considered. It's human nature to get "riled up" over something you're passionate about and then realize there's actually more to it.

[Zip_ME87]

As a matter of fact, as an American citizen the rising cost of education does matter to me. I believe a lot of America's greatness is based on a large percentage of the population being better educated. Rising costs lead to fewer citizens being able to afford higher education, which would ultimately lead to a general weakening of our country. From that perspective I support the concept of institutions of higher learning thinking outside the box in pursuing opportunities to generate additional income to offset reduced costs to students. However, it's important that these opportunities offer a solid return on investment and don't interfere with UA's primary obligation to its students.

By the way DiG, I agree with this as long as "these opportunities offer a solid return on investment and don't interfere with UA's primary obligation to it's students", as you state.

One thing that really drives me insane about the tOSWho's money-making athletics machine and that of other schools in the same "league" is that all of the money seems to go back into sports or funding more athletes in a large number of sports and who knows where else. How about using some of that revenue for education of the masses and lowering tuition costs. I don't think tOSWho's tuition rates are much different than UA's (I didn't look them up; so, I could be wrong) even though they generate so much revenue from sports and membership in the B1G. I suspect they spend a lot of money sending numerous people to watch their NCAA playoff and bowl games among other schmoozing with well-to-do donors and influential persons and "to hell with the masses". Now that I think of it, perhaps I should request public records from the high and mighty tOSWho. I'd like to see what they tell me is open and available vs "trade secret". I bet no one here would get upset if I mentioned the State of Ohio Attorney General in correspondence with them.

[Dave in Green]

I was concerned that current Ohio AG Mike DeWine might be a tOSU grad, in which case he might not take well to questions about his alma mater. Turns out he's a Miami (Ohio) guy, so you may be safe.

[Zip_ME87]

EDITTED: I mistakenly used the out of state surcharge for UA rather than the in-state tuition rates.

Turns out Akron is only slightly less expensive for tuition and fees (Ohio resident)

Akron: $9,922/year 12-16 credit hours

tOSU: $10,037/year full time

[Zip_ME87]

http://www.uakron.edu/im/news/the-power-and-the-promise-of-public-higher-education

...This university is not a vocational school, nor is it a certification factory: it is a refinery of minds.

Thomas Jefferson said, “The basis of our government (is) the opinion of the people.”

I would argue that the transformative power of higher education—the ability to think critically and communicate effectively—is more necessary today than in Jefferson’s time.

In his day, citizens were fed just a trickle of information and news. Today, we are continually bombarded by waves of opinions and dubious facts in the midst of important and truly useful information.

How do we as citizens of a democratic republic determine what is true and what is not if not for the transformative power of higher education?

Can our nation endure without a highly educated electorate and decision-makers?...

[Dave in Green]

Good speech. I agree with a lot of what he says and hope he can deliver. I especially like this part that immediately follows the quote above:

Can our nation endure without a highly educated electorate and decision-makers?

John Adams wrote: “the whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people, and must be willing to bear the expense of it.”

Let me repeat that last phrase: “…and must be willing to bear the expense of it.”

Previous generations of Americans accepted this public necessity and obligation for the good of the nation.

However, since 1987, state governments across this nation have cut funding for public higher education from an average of $10,000 per student to $6,600 per student.

As a result, tuition and fees have risen as well as student debt and loan default rates.

How much more are we willing to allow the expense of public higher education to shift from “the whole people” to individuals and families hoping for a better life?

If we continue to permit it, higher education will drift beyond the reach of ordinary citizens, beyond the reach of people like my grandfather, and with it, I fear, goes the American Dream.

[Zip_ME87]

I agree DiG. I liked his speech overall. That's why I said earlier in this thread, if his actions follow this speech, he could be better than his predecessor. Huge challenge.

[Zip_ME87]

Nice. However, I'll still be monitoring this. While the Crew and Browns may have long term plans, I don't see this precluding the Browns from coming to UA for a short term stint if UA were interested. (Until I definitively hear there is no chance, I won't give up the mantra that I have no problem with the Browns coming to UA, even for a short while, but DON"T practice in FES-CCF.)

Along with the unveiling of the #NewCrew, Anthony Precourt confirmed Columbus Crew SC and the Cleveland Browns have had talks regarding sharing a training facility. Crew SC are in need of a new training facility to continue the push towards becoming a world class club, and the Browns are in search of some new digs for training camp. That’s enough common ground to finding a solution that would benefit both sides.

Back in September, Tom Reed wrote of the possibility that the Browns may head down I-71 as a possible site for training camp, and Precourt’s comments at the #NewCrew launch event confirmed that discussions between Crew SC and the Browns are ongoing.

Reed wrote back in September of the battleground for NFL franchises that Central Ohio has become with the Browns, Bengals, Colts, Lions, and Steelers all within a reasonable drive of Columbus. Moving training camp to Columbus would give the Browns an inroad to an emerging metropolitan area that is diversifying in its NFL fanhood.

“The Browns are talking to a lot of people and we’re certainly having conversations,” he said. “We want to have conversations with everyone. I don’t know where it’s

going yet, but yeah, we’re having conversations.”

As someone with family and friends in Columbus, who feels a connection to both the state’s capital and the C-L-E, the idea of meshing together sports franchises is mouth wateringly appetizing.

Imagine sending the Cavaliers to play five home games a year at Nationwide Arena and the Blue Jackets coming up north to play five home games at Quicken Loans Arena. All of those games are for sure sellouts. Who doesn’t win in that situation?

[Balsy]

That's very disappointing.

[fknbuflobo]

Nice. However, I'll still be monitoring this. While the Crew and Browns may have long term plans, I don't see this precluding the Browns from coming to UA for a short term stint if UA were interested. (Until I definitively hear there is no chance, I won't give up the mantra that I have no problem with the Browns coming to UA, even for a short while, but DON"T practice in FES-CCF.)

Along with the unveiling of the #NewCrew, Anthony Precourt confirmed Columbus Crew SC and the Cleveland Browns have had talks regarding sharing a training facility. Crew SC are in need of a new training facility to continue the push towards becoming a world class club, and the Browns are in search of some new digs for training camp. That’s enough common ground to finding a solution that would benefit both sides.

Back in September, Tom Reed wrote of the possibility that the Browns may head down I-71 as a possible site for training camp, and Precourt’s comments at the #NewCrew launch event confirmed that discussions between Crew SC and the Browns are ongoing.

Reed wrote back in September of the battleground for NFL franchises that Central Ohio has become with the Browns, Bengals, Colts, Lions, and Steelers all within a reasonable drive of Columbus. Moving training camp to Columbus would give the Browns an inroad to an emerging metropolitan area that is diversifying in its NFL fanhood.

“The Browns are talking to a lot of people and we’re certainly having conversations,” he said. “We want to have conversations with everyone. I don’t know where it’s

going yet, but yeah, we’re having conversations.”

As someone with family and friends in Columbus, who feels a connection to both the state’s capital and the C-L-E, the idea of meshing together sports franchises is mouth wateringly appetizing.

Imagine sending the Cavaliers to play five home games a year at Nationwide Arena and the Blue Jackets coming up north to play five home games at Quicken Loans Arena. All of those games are for sure sellouts. Who doesn’t win in that situation?

[Dr Z]

That's very disappointing.

Unless they move Rock on the Range to Infocision.

[zippy5]

Imagine sending the Cavaliers to play five home games a year at Nationwide Arena and the Blue Jackets coming up north to play five home games at Quicken Loans Arena. All of those games are for sure sellouts. Who doesn’t win in that situation?

Season ticket holders

[fknbuflobo]

_{I love the Cleveland Browns. I would pay to watch training camp; I have already done so many times.}

_{But I am steadfastly unwilling to grant the Cleveland Browns access to FE/CC. Period.}

_{If "losing" the Browns' Training Camp to Columbus is the only outcome that keeps the Browns off FE/CC, then so be it.}

_{@UA. If you want to host Browns' Training Camp in the future, build that grass practice facility. The Browns will change locations in just a few years; that is part of their plan.}

[Dave in Green]

It's contagious:

England manager Roy Hodgson angry over NFL date at Wembley

[Zip_ME87]

Hodgson has noticed a deterioration recently though, and he thinks the pitch will not get any better with NFL players playing on it next weekend.

"I can't pretend that is something that makes me leap for joy," Hodgson said. "If I was asked if it was a good thing or not, I would have to say not.

"I don't really think you could expect me to say 'excellent, delighted, well done'. The pitch, unfortunately, is not in the best of nick anyway, which we're all a bit unhappy with."

Hodgson said ground staff will have to "work their socks off" to ensure the grass is in optimum condition by the time England kick-off against Slovenia.

The 67-year-old said he hoped Club England managing director Adrian Bevington would report to the FA board, who sanctioned the NFL's partnership with Wembley, and "find a good solution" that would prevent England from playing on an uneven surface because of the NFL games in the future.

Fact, not contangion. Confirms what I and others have been saying.

[Balsy]

I'm going to be a context troll here, but context is everything.

A large portion of the discussion on his topic was if the Zips ground staff would be able to get the field ready for the soccer season, which would give several weeks to a month of preparation time to do so. The quotes taken from the story posted above are out of context of what this conversation was about (thus not really supporting the point you guys are trying to make). Here's a couple of reasons why:

1. It was already discussed that the time frame between the Browns camp and Zips soccer starting play would be several weeks to a Month, the complaints and quotes in the story are talking about days and a time frame less than a week.

2. There's a huge difference between getting a field of grass repaired in October/November than in June/July/August.

3. Those in charge of Wembley stadium get it. Having a stadium just sit unused because you've got to stroke the ego of someone is ludacris. Wembley stadium is also being used for Rugby matches (more so than football games), amongst other activities (according to your own link). They make $$$$$$$ off of hosting these games instead of losing $$$ because a field is sitting there unused.

4. Wembley officials understand that stadiums exist to make money so well that they know that with the revenue generated from hosting other games, a portion can easily be used to repair the field.

5. I know many people don't give a damn about logic/facts but don't cherry-pick information to support your side, it makes you look cynical.

6. This story read more like a bunch of people with egos complaining, more than it did about what works and what doesn't work.

[K92]

[Zip_ME87]

Whether you realize it it or not, you're "cherry-picking" to support your argument.

I'm going to be a context troll here, but context is everything.

A large portion of the discussion on his topic was if the Zips ground staff would be able to get the field ready for the soccer season, which would give several weeks to a month of preparation time to do so. The quotes taken from the story posted above are out of context of what this conversation was about (thus not really supporting the point you guys are trying to make). Here's a couple of reasons why:

1. It was already discussed that the time frame between the Browns camp and Zips soccer starting play would be several weeks to a Month, the complaints and quotes in the story are talking about days and a time frame less than a week.

2 weeks at best.

2. There's a huge difference between getting a field of grass repaired in October/November than in June/July/August.

Not just the grass, but the playing surface. Also, repairing a field for London's Fall climate is no worse than repairing CCF and expecting it to make it through an Akron Fall.

3. Those in charge of Wembley stadium get it. Having a stadium just sit unused because you've got to stroke the ego of someone is ludacris. Wembley stadium is also being used for Rugby matches (more so than football games), amongst other activities (according to your own link). They make $$$$$$$ off of hosting these games instead of losing $$$ because a field is sitting there unused.

People coming to watch the NFL games at Wembley actually buy tickets, paying to watch the game. No charge for entry into Browns training camp.

4. Wembley officials understand that stadiums exist to make money so well that they know that with the revenue generated from hosting other games, a portion can easily be used to repair the field.

See #3 above

5. I know many people don't give a damn about logic/facts but don't cherry-pick information to support your side, it makes you look cynical.

It makes you look stupid to keep saying over an again that things are lagically/factually obvious. There are a great many things, including the Browns coming to UA for a training camp that aren't necessarily as one would believe them to be logically. Unfortunately, bad things can happen when someone is so smug that they continue to think that just because something looks intuitively obvious, it must must be that way. A good example...A lot of really smart people worked on the Space Shuttle Program and many of them thought a chunk of foam light as a feather obviously couldn't damage the shuttle because it was so light. After a tragedy proved them wrong, they woke up and realized, oh yeah, KE = 1/2*m*v^2. Velocity squared drives kinetic energy much moreso than mass. What are you, and more importantly UA, overlooking in this UA proposal for Browns training camp?

For the nth time, the logic and facts here are you don't enter into such a business proposal/deal without fully looking at it, which wasn't done. So, yeah I agree many people, including you, don't give a damn logic/facts.

6. This story read more like a bunch of people with egos complaining, more than it did about what works and what doesn't work.

That's how the media writes. Those who have the issue didn't write the artice.