UA to Renovate the JAR

[Dr Z]

Obviously not the same thing, since Carmelo actually played/won at Syracuse for a year (and this is just a practice facility), but still somewhat relevant to this discussion I think. The Carmelo K Anthony Center at Syracuse

It befuddles my mind that someone at the U is not savvy enough to facilitate some kind of deal between The U, Nike, McDonald's, Coca-Cola and LBJ (possible Gilbert) to put some kind of deal together that benefits everyone. It might actually have to be something that has never been done before. Never mind, it doesn't surprise me at all. They need to hire someone with some real experience to make something like this happen. I'm not talking about a fake hire like Tressel. I real hire. Current status is better/easier at making excuses rather than finding a unique solution. I would hope President Scarborough has an eye on this and cleans some house. Until then, I just expect more excuses.

[zen]

Lets not forget that if your arena is full (at 4500) and people can't find tickets, you can raise prices due to demand, and increase revenue. The idea of higher ticket prices may not be popular, but as a business, it's what you want. It has an added effect of creating a mystique (which is what is quantified by demand) when there are repeated sell-outs, people hear about it, and start to wonder what they are missing out on, and desire to get in on the action.... with an accumulative snowball effect on demand.

Higher ticket prices when you have chairbacks and respectable accomodations? I could see it happening. More seats on bleachers has not worked.

.... then again, I was a proponent of the idea that if you built a nice football stadium, on campus, people would come, and that there would be a gathering change in perception about the brand.

However, I'm not convinced that that couldn't have happened if it weren't for what I recently read described as the 'Ianello pigskin holocaust'

[Dave in Green]

There are some interesting attendance numbers in a MACbbs thread discussing last season's conference average. One surprise is that UA has the second highest attendance/capacity in the MAC. Toledo leads with an average 68.5% capacity vs. 65.6% for the Zips. Buffalo is third at 57.1%, the MAC average is 38.1%, and EMU and NIU are battling for the cellar at 10.2% and 10.1% respectively.

MAC average attendance in 2013-2014 was down 113 from the previous season to 2,869 compared with the national average of 4,817. In 2003-2004 the MAC averaged 3,790, so in the past decade average MAC basketball attendance has fallen about 25% per game. Over that same period, Zips home attendance has risen from an average of 2,902 in 2003-2004 to 3,609 in 2013-2014, an increase of about 25%. So UA and the MAC have been going in opposite directions over the past decade when it comes to basketball attendance.

[K92]

However, I'm not convinced that that couldn't have happened if it weren't for what I recently read described as the 'Ianello pigskin holocaust'

I knew that term had legs.

[skip-zip]

Played Pitt in the late 80's early 90's (Huggins era), at the old coliseum in front of over 11k people. Great game, Pitt had a guy named Gerome Lane in that game. We can attract big crowds as long as we keep winning and bring in big name opponents. How many fans did we draw in the MAC tournament finals.

Let me add a little bit to this...since some people appear to be comparing this to the MAC title games....

We played Pitt in the old Fitzgerald Fieldhouse in Pittsburgh in 1986 when they were ranked in the Top 25. We took them to the buzzer with the Boyce/McLaughlin team, and this was right after our first appearance in the NCAA tournament earlier that year.

This really helped set up the meeting at the Coliseum in Richfield in 1987. Pitt was even more LOADED by then, with Lane, Charles Smith, Demetrius Gore, and a phenom freshman PG who is now the head coach of the Arizona Wildcats. AND...they were ranked in the Top 5 by this time. We had some extra ammo that year too, with the addition of freshman guard Anthony Buford (who later transferred and started on Huggins' Final 4 team at Cincinnati).

It was the perfect storm for a big crowd. Most importantly, the Coliseum was a short drive for Akron fans (unlike Cleveland). Plus, this was one of the only times I can ever remember that many NE Ohio college basketball fans, even if they weren't connected with the Zips, wanted to see this game. My old high school, which is 2 hours away, brought their entire team down to watch that game. We even had a double digit lead early in the 2nd half, before fading by a couple of buckets at the end.

This was the first time I realized that Akron was capable of bringing in the people....even if they weren't previously a Zips fan...because we were doing something that appeared to have NATIONAL implications. Even a MAC tournament final cannot do that, unfortunately.

Additional Note: I still wish, to this day, that we could have found a way to use the Coliseum, which was still not "old" when it was abandoned by the Cavs (built in 1976...I think?).

[Zip_ME87]

.... then again, I was a proponent of the idea that if you built a nice football stadium, on campus, people would come, and that there would be a gathering change in perception about the brand.

However, I'm not convinced that that couldn't have happened if it weren't for what I recently read described as the 'Ianello pigskin holocaust'

I totally agree zen. I actually convinced some people to buy season tickets when the new stadium opened. Then the Ianello Pigskin Holocaust (great term) occurred. They were done after those 2 years, and until TB actually gets the Zips to a bowl game, I won't even bring up the subject. Could not have self-destructed any more completely if we tried.

[morris buttermaker]

Pitt is the only good college team to visit NE Ohio (to play a local) that I ever remember....any others that matched the buzz of THAT Pitt team... in the last 40 yrs?..50 years? ...

On a side note, I always felt Huggins would have gotten the OSU job (over Randy Ayers) if he hadn't bolted to what was a step up (to a lousy Cincy team), but the Gary Williams had not left Cbus-- Yates got canned at Cincy, Huggins jumped, and then a month or two later Williams left OSU, and the Buckeyes somewhat reluctantly hired Ayers who was an asst.

[skip-zip]

I think many of us thought that the Huggins move to Cincinnati was just another step up the ladder. It turned out to be a 16 year run of dominance in Ohio college basketball, and a claim to being one of the best programs in the country during that era. In fact, after the first couple of seasons where he was trying to put the pieces together, he had several #1 teams, and even more impressively, his remaining 14 teams never had a peak ranking lower than 21st. Pretty impressive. And if Kenyon Martin had not broken his leg, he likely would have had a national championship as well.

Of course, for us, we can only wonder what might have happened if we had somehow been able to keep him here.

[Dr Z]

Pitt is the only good college team to visit NE Ohio (to play a local) that I ever remember....any others that matched the buzz of THAT Pitt team... in the last 40 yrs?..50 years?

Penn State in '93

Xavier in '96 (one of the best games I witnessed at the JAR 111-113, Jimmal scored 44 in a triple overtime loss)

St Joseph's '97

Purdue, Rhode Island and Wyoming in 2000

Duquesne has been to the JAR a few times if they count

Dayton '08

PS I miss Huggins.

[skip-zip]

Penn State in '93

Xavier in '96 (one of the best games I witnessed at the JAR 111-113)

St Joseph's '97

Purdue, Rhode Island and Wyoming in 2000

Duquesne has been to the JAR a few times if they count

Dayton '08

PS I miss Huggins.

For those who missed that Xavier game, it was unbelievable and unforgettable. One of the best, for sure, and there have been a ton of great games in the JAR.

In fact, when I first saw Jimmal Ball after he returned here recently, it was the very FIRST memory that came to mind.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Pitt is the only good college team to visit NE Ohio (to play a local) that I ever remember....any others that matched the buzz of THAT Pitt team... in the last 40 yrs?..50 years? ...

In 2006, #25 Nevada came to the JAR in a Bracketbuster game

That too was a great game. I remember they had Nick Fazekas who was real good and the student section had a sign with his phone number.

Dru Joyce was on fire that game. Akron Lost by 1 or 2 and had a shot to win at the buzzer.

[morris buttermaker]

Penn State in '93

Xavier in '96 (one of the best games I witnessed at the JAR 111-113, Jimmal scored 44 in a triple overtime loss)

St Joseph's '97

Purdue, Rhode Island and Wyoming in 2000

Duquesne has been to the JAR a few times if they count

Dayton '08

il put X and Purdue on the list...(significantly) behind Pitt ... the others didnt do much for me

[UAZips]

Ramon Sessions starred on that Nevada team as well. Great game.

[wadszip]

Pitt is the only good college team to visit NE Ohio (to play a local) that I ever remember....any others that matched the buzz of THAT Pitt team... in the last 40 yrs?..50 years? ...

On a side note, I always felt Huggins would have gotten the OSU job (over Randy Ayers) if he hadn't bolted to what was a step up (to a lousy Cincy team), but the Gary Williams had not left Cbus-- Yates got canned at Cincy, Huggins jumped, and then a month or two later Williams left OSU, and the Buckeyes somewhat reluctantly hired Ayers who was an asst.

If we are talking NE Ohio in general, there have been some good teams play at CSU. North Carolina played at CSU during their championship season in 2005. In 1998, a Rhode Island team that made the Sweet 16 played CSU in the Rock N Roll Shootout at the Q (Gund Arena). In 94, Ohio State played at CSU, though that was the year after Jim Jackson left and OSU wasn't great. And Michigan played at CSU during the first year the Convo was open.

What did all those games have in common? The opponent had a Cleveland kid on their roster. (Kind of like Pitt with Jerome Lane).

UNC specifically played that CSU game as a homecoming for Jawad Williams, a St. Edward kid. While I'm not sure if the reason the others played in Cleveland were for that only reason, but Rhode Island had Luther Clay, from Oberlin; OSU had Malcolm Sims from Shaker Heights (who hit a game winning buzzer beating 3 for OSU that night); and Michigan had Eric Reily from St. Joes.

Point is, if you want to try to get a big name team to come to NEO. 1, look for a program that has a NEO kid on the roster. 2, especially in Akron's case, play the game at the Q.

[skip-zip]

I like the idea that kids from this area should get a chance to come back here an play. We could probably find dozens of higher profile teams in the country who have a player from somewhere near here I wonder if it's true that some of these games mentioned above were scheduled for that purpose.

Actually, I think it's pretty fair to examine the games that Cleveland State has gotten at their place over the years. Not the games at the Q, but at the Convo. I guess that's about the best barometer we can get to have an idea of who we might be able to draw with a new arena.

[Sportsjunkie330]

If we are talking NE Ohio in general, there have been some good teams play at CSU. North Carolina played at CSU during their championship season in 2005. In 1998, a Rhode Island team that made the Sweet 16 played CSU in the Rock N Roll Shootout at the Q (Gund Arena). In 94, Ohio State played at CSU, though that was the year after Jim Jackson left and OSU wasn't great. And Michigan played at CSU during the first year the Convo was open.

What did all those games have in common? The opponent had a Cleveland kid on their roster. (Kind of like Pitt with Jerome Lane).

UNC specifically played that CSU game as a homecoming for Jawad Williams, a St. Edward kid. While I'm not sure if the reason the others played in Cleveland were for that only reason, but Rhode Island had Luther Clay, from Oberlin; OSU had Malcolm Sims from Shaker Heights (who hit a game winning buzzer beating 3 for OSU that night); and Michigan had Eric Reily from St. Joes.

Point is, if you want to try to get a big name team to come to NEO. 1, look for a program that has a NEO kid on the roster. 2, especially in Akron's case, play the game at the Q.

Didn't Digger Phelps used to take ND on the road to play a game in every senior's hometown?

[LZIp]

So we may have missed an opportunity (pure speculation) for St. John's to come here when they had Jakarr Sampson.

Who are some other Akron kids out there and who do they play for?

[Blue & Gold]

Darius Carter - Wichita State

Larry Nance Jr. - Wyoming

...both seniors :/

[ZachTheZip]

Darius Carter - Wichita State

Larry Nance Jr. - Wyoming

...both seniors :/

DJ Blanks (Junior) - Texas Southern

Ricky Johnson Jr (Junior) - Bethune Cookman

Jalen Hudson (Freshman) - Virginia Tech

Satchel Pierce (Freshman) - Virginia Tech

Victor Dorsey (Freshman) - Longwood

[Blue & Gold]

Right! How'd I so quickly forget Jalen Hudson?!

[ZachTheZip]

Two Akron guys at VT as freshmen. Plenty of opportunity to get the Hokies to arrange a homecoming trip for their guys.

[wadszip]

Didn't Digger Phelps used to take ND on the road to play a game in every senior's hometown?

I'm not sure about every senior. ND had some Akron-Canton players in his tenure and don't recall them coming to NE Ohio (but that was before my time). But it is pretty common to play a homecoming game if you have a "star" senior, ala Jawad Williams.

I was also thinking about what programs could fit the bill. Wyoming is the one that immediately comes to mind due to Nance Jr., who is a senior and one of the best players in the MWC. However, Larry Shyatt is probably gun shy about coming to the JAR considering the beating his team took in 2007 (and also lost to Akron at Wyoming).

Wichita State would've been a great team to try to get here with Darius Carter. But he was a JUCO transfer, so who knows if WSU was ever interested in giving him a homecoming game since he wasn't a 4 year guy.

I think if Sampson didn't leave early, St. John's would have been a possibility, but probably at the Q. Sampson was a Cleveland kid (started at Solon) before going to SVSM.

Virginia Tech makes sense on the surface as a possibility down the road, but Hudson wasnt an Akron guy. He is from Richmond and transferred to SVSM solely for basketball. Pierce lists his hometown as Barberton, but did he ever play HS ball here? Its not a name that sticks out to me and he lists his HS as Kiski Prep. But that could be a possibility down the road. Again, not sure if you can get them to the JAR, but easily could get them at the Q... But VT isn't worth the Q. That would have to be marquee name.

A couple other possibilities would be Loyola-Marymount. Evan Payne (Walsh Jesuit) is there top player and one of the best in the WCC. I think that would be an attainable home and home. LM wouldn't be a huge draw, though still some name cache with the 30 and older crowd due to Hank Gathers and Bo Kimble. And a WCC team sure beats a SWAC or MEAC dreg.

College of Charleston could be another solid mid major that could do a home and home. Evan Bailey, of Jackson HS, is a freshman there. Another generally solid mid major with some name cache.

Texas Tech is another potential "high major". They have two NEO kids on their roster, Justin Jamison of Strongsville and Devaughntah Williams of Canton McKinley. Williams is one of the Red Raiders top players and is coming off a 21 point performance in a loss to WVU. Maybe you can get them into the JAR. But if it would have to be at the Q, like VT, I'd pass.

Finally, maybe Washington State. Ny Redding of Solon is a freshman with the Cougars. While Solon isn't far from Akron, its still suburban Cleveland, so not a true homecoming. And again, no way you play WSU at the Q.

As for options I would be in favor of playing at the Q:

Louisville: Terry Rozier (Shaker Heights) is one of the Cards top players. Pitino has recruited NEO recently (also had Zach Price of St. Eds before he was booted). That game easily draws 15,000 plus. A return game to Louisville is a no lose situation either for Akron. But Rozier is projected top 15 pick so who knows if he will return.

Kansas: they just got a commitment from 5 star Carlton Bragg from VASJ. He may be a one and done, so it would probably have to be next year to potentially get KU in Northeast Ohio. Like Louisville, that is a game you play at the Q if it means getting them here.

Obviously, the biggest issue even if either is willing, would be that the Zips would be behind CSU in the pecking order.

[Dave in Green]

A couple of comments about Savage Arena have been made in the Toledo game thread. I thought it was appropriate to discuss in more detail in this thread. My first impression was that it's a lot nicer than the JAR. Then again, most arenas are. My second impression is that the seating on the team bench side of the arena has a much shallower pitch than the other side, and even shallower than the JAR. The rows go up at such a shallow angle that the last row at the top is miles away from the court. It's far from optimum for basketball.

I saw other details that smacked of renovation rather than new construction. My overall impression is that even though it seats 7,300, it's not as fan friendly as the 5,100-seat TD Arena where the Zips played in the Charleston tournament. Savage Arena was originally built in 1976, a few years before the JAR, with seating for 9,000. It's not only much bigger than the JAR, it's built with long span trusses that allowed renovation into wraparound seating without the 4 big pillars in the corners that limit how much renovation can accomplish in the JAR. But it's still a compromised design compared with new, modern arenas, and the renovation cost a healthy $30 million in 2008.

The JAR is so bad that almost anything looks better, and Savage Arena is certainly a quality renovation starting from an original design that was already superior to the JAR. But I've yet to see a renovation that compares with the best new, modern designs.

[ZippyRulz]

The JAR is so bad that almost anything looks better, and Savage Arena is certainly a quality renovation starting from an original design that was already superior to the JAR. But I've yet to see a renovation that compares with the best new, modern designs.

Here's one:

http://www.sundomearena.com/arena-info

Built in the late 70's for < $10M, renovated 30+ years later for $35M. Today it seems like new and state of the art...of course that was made possible by building a large arena to begin with. Unfortunately for them, the beautiful arena is accompanied by a glaring lack of an on-campus football stadium.

[infofan]

Another comparable arena, the gentile center at Loyola of Chicago. It was an oversized high school gym very similar to the JAR. In 2011 they renovated it into a cozy 4500 seat arena with a full concourse behind the seats and great sight lines. This may be too small for UA but it was done in 6 months for just 8.5 million. And it got Loyola invited to the Missouri valley conference- a big step up from the horizon league