UA rebranding

[Dave in Green]

Dr. Scarborough's formal statement made it clear that he believes in many ways that UA is already a polytechnic university that just hasn't billed itself as such. If you believe as he does that UA already has "many polytechnic programs, approaches and strengths" in place, then sweeping changes would not be required to position UA as Ohio's Polytechnic University. In other words, what Dr. Scarborough and UA's Board of Trustees are proposing is to leverage the strengths that UA already has in place.

Those individuals who know us best know that UA is especially strong in preparing our students for successful careers, in taking what they learn in class and applying it to work that gets done in the real world.

That is why the word “polytechnic” has come up often in many discussions.

The most well known polytechnic universities (Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, etc.) are defined by their career-focused, rigorous academic programs in the sciences, arts and humanities; emphasis on critical thinking and complex problem solving; applied and experiential learning; and deep connections to industry and community. We already have many polytechnic programs, approaches and strengths at UA that distinguish us and add tremendous value to a UA degree.

[LZIp]

Universities exist for more than just preparing people for the job market. If that is the major goal, then businesses ought to be directly taxed to pay for them. And yes, students (and parents paying the bill) need to go in with their eyes open as to what the costs are and the job market is (if that is why they are there). I believe that an important mission for universities is to provide a place for people to explore and to become well rounded individuals, and I fear that is getting lost as higher education refocuses itself to be a job training service. In the long run, we are going to be hurting ourselves by developing a society so narrowly focused on the job market.

I will be listening to this conversation over UA rebranding, but if it goes the way I think it might, I will move my support to institutions that educate for a broader life experience.

LibraryMark hit it on the nose. There is a battle going on in education. Education vs work force. Job preparedness vs independent well rounded people.

My parents and I have had many discussions about this. Both of my parents are highly educated with several masters degrees. They both graduated in the 70s, my father in accounting and business, my mother in education and science. Back when they were in school, businesses did not hire them expecting they were ready to go from day one. They hired people, then dedicated resources to train those people in for the job that the business wanted them to do. This takes an INVESTMENT on the employee on the part of the business. My dad was extensively trained by the chemical corporations that hired him, that he ended up spending 20 years with.

Businesses are doing this less and less. Putting the burden (financially and academically) of having a worker to do the job needed, on the education system...instead of finding someone with the base skills and investing in them.

This lack of investment in employees by businesses isn't going unnoticed by the millenials who are now entering the work force. Businesses are having trouble retaining millenials for long periods of time, because millenials don't stay in places that don't value them, or invest in them.

I'm really enjoying this discussion. I might get into more detail later regarding the last paragraph of your post, Balzy. I actually read a study not too long ago on FiveThirtyEight I believe it was that shows millenials aren't jumping anymore than people did in the 70s.

As for the main point of you and Mark's post. Maybe we disagree, but I feel a college education's primary purpose is to prepare somebody for a professional career (if not, why do we have majors?). Getting a well rounded education is a bi-product that is produced from various general education courses. For example, I learned enough in my Humanities, American Diversity, and Earth Science classes that I would consider to have gained knowledge in each subject and maybe even consider myself "well rounded". What makes you more well rounded if you are a Dance major rather than an Accounting major? Nothing in my eyes. Each chose a specific focus and concentrated on that. If people want to consider college as more about getting an education in whatever you want than prepare you for a professional career, I don't want to see you complaining when you're degree in Dance landed you a gig as a barista at Starbucks with 50k in student loan debt. Having a degree in dance doesn't warrant you to get a job at some engineering, law, or accounting firm over people who dedicated 4+ years of their life to learning the subject.

I've also experience firsthand that companies look for people who have a strong basis in whatever field they are related to, but they are also looking for quality individuals they can stand to be around 8+ hours a day as well. If you're a star student at your university, but have zero personality/are uncapable to think for yourself and show some initiative/work hard you are either not going to get hired or you aren't going to make it very long.

[skip-zip]

LZip....please just make sure you separate the idea of becoming well rounded by choice, or being in a program that just requires it.

It's been a long, long time. But, I do remember that some majors are required to take foreign language, and others are not., etc. Those people become well-rounded by the nature of the program's requirements.

On the other hand, being a Dance Major doesn't necessarily prevent you from becoming well rounded. In addition to all of the general requirements, there's tons of hours of electives that are available to you to diversify your education, whether your program required it or not. For instance, I was a Liberal Arts major, but I took 20 hours of business courses in accounting, marketing, business law, etc., in order to enhance a possible future business career. Thank God I did.

[Balsy]

...FiveThirtyEight I believe it was that shows millenials aren't jumping anymore than people did in the 70s.

As for the main point of you and Mark's post. Maybe we disagree, but I feel a college education's primary purpose is to prepare somebody for a professional career (if not, why do we have majors?). Getting a well rounded education is a bi-product that is produced from various general education courses. For example, I learned enough in my Humanities, American Diversity, and Earth Science classes that I would consider to have gained knowledge in each subject and maybe even consider myself "well rounded". What makes you more well rounded if you are a Dance major rather than an Accounting major? Nothing in my eyes. Each chose a specific focus and concentrated on that. If people want to consider college as more about getting an education in whatever you want than prepare you for a professional career, I don't want to see you complaining when you're degree in Dance landed you a gig as a barista at Starbucks with 50k in student loan debt. Having a degree in dance doesn't warrant you to get a job at some engineering, law, or accounting firm over people who dedicated 4+ years of their life to learning the subject.

I am enjoying this conversation too, one of the more productive ones I've seen on the forum in awhile. If you come across that article I'd like to read it, that is very interesting and would be contrary to most of the research I've read about millenials vs other generations. I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong on that point though.

I don't necessarily disagree that the goal of a degree is to move into a career within that field. I guess the distinction I want to make is that you have a major to demonstrate to a future employer where your base skills are. If your major is organic chemistry (obviously I'm a science guy, so I'll use science as an example) your major is declaring your skills are in organic chemistry. You'd know the lab equipment, the math, the terminology, the nomenclature, the base reactions...etc. It's impossible to be trained in every possible subsection of organic chemistry, with tens of thousands of possible reactions, each serving a different industry. It is not possible, nor sustainable to outright train a workforce for the job a single employable job.

Nothing makes a dance major more "well rounded" than an accounting major. But it's not the major that makes you more well rounded. It's by having options to take classes that you become more well rounded. What if you didn't have the option to take Earth science or environmental? And your only options for science credits were very specific to a type of career? Same with humanaties.

I took a history of China class to fullfill a humanaties credit, and it is by far one of the classes I've learned the most from, outside of my focus, because it was something we just aren't exposed to. In a Polytechnique institution, it is entirely possible that humanaties would not be a focus, thus never giving me the opportunity to be exposed to it.

That's the distinction. Or at least as I can articulate it.

[zippy5]

I loved UA because it prepared me for the workforce. Maybe I'm in the minority, but that's the #1 thing I'd want out of school, no?

[skip-zip]

Wow....Zippy5. It looks like we just keep adding more and more interesting elements to this discussion.

I think that most of us surely went to college for the purpose of elevating our careers. It probably took me many years to also realize that having degrees, being college educated, and developing life skills and higher levels of general knowledge had tremendous value as well.

I'm sure one could also argue that there's a reason why people seek degrees from Harvard, and Yale and Columbia, etc. If the only thing anyone is after is some "job training", nobody would be seeking high levels of education, and the status that goes along with holding degrees from prestigious institutions.

[zippy5]

I sense sarcasm. But that's what makes UA what it is. Let's face it, UA isn't Harvard. No one's coming here for the prestige. If we make it more oriented towards well-rounded students vs job-ready students then I think we lose one of the advantages we have. Then we're just another Can't State/YSU state school.

[zippy5]

I'd rather have the ability to do both, however UA doesn't have the resources for that.

[Balsy]

I sense sarcasm. But that's what makes UA what it is. Let's face it, UA isn't Harvard. No one's coming here for the prestige. If we make it more oriented towards well-rounded students vs job-ready students then I think we lose one of the advantages we have. Then we're just another Can't State/YSU state school.

You're right. We'd be viewed as less than Can't or YSU. You're also alientating a large portion of your reach by throwing yourself into a corner. A lot of students go to UA because of it's where it is in relation to them, AND because of what it offers.

[Dave in Green]

I enrolled at Louisiana Polytechnic Institute and got my degree from Louisiana Tech University because the school changed its name in the middle of my time there. I started as a business major and took elective courses that got me interested in philosophy, so I switched to a philosophy major. Then I took an English literature course taught by a well-known author which caused me to change majors again to English. Then I took a basic journalism class and started writing for the school newspaper, which caused me to switch once again to a major in journalism, where I finally earned my degree.

The point about all of the above is that my four different majors at this polytechnic school were all non-technical. The four professors who had the greatest impact on my life were in economics, history, English literature and journalism. I spent many hours after classes sitting in the offices of these four professors learning as much or more than I did in class. I received an exceptionally well-rounded education at a polytechnic school that set me up for a successful professional career in which I never had a problem getting a non-technical job.

[uhgrad2002]

Some people don't know what they want to do when they are 20 or so. Universities provide one of the few places most of those people can explore their options. And I don't see it necessarily as well-rounded verses job-ready. I think being well rounded enhances being job-ready (and life-ready).

I did not start college in order to prepare for a career. When I started, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I started in Liberal Arts and got a BA in Psychology. Useless for a job, but it did qualified me for a graduate program in Library Science. They warned us the job market was tight. They were right. So I went back to school to UA (where the adventure had started a decade previous, for a year) and got a degree in Computer Science, and that became my career. I still maintain that the communications and psychology courses I took early on have made me a better professional and a better person than I would have been without them, to the benefit of my employer along with myself. And the art, language, religion and health sciences courses (I was in school a long time!) keep coming up for me.

I do worry about the cost of a college education now and one of the things I want to learn during the upcoming discussions is what has changed so much that the costs are so high. I doubt I could follow the same path now that I did then, as work-study wouldn't cover much of it and I could never pay the loans they get these days back.

[skip-zip]

Mark, That's well said.

I keep saying this, and I will repeat it. Maybe (as Dave suggests) being a "polytechnic" university, by definition and in reality, doesn't take away from the diverse level of education that Akron has provided...and will provide...for years to come. I can't answer that question.

But, my bigger concern is that the LABEL itself may change the perception of the University and those "non-technical" degree programs. All it takes is for future students to get the impression that "Akron is not the place to go for an English/psych/history degree", even if it's a misconception in the terminology, and you could possibly see the level of value in those programs start to plummet.

I have to be honest. Until these definition and explanations started to pop up, and I read them carefully, I saw the word "TECH" to mean exactly what most people think it would mean. And that would not be a good thing.

[Dave in Green]

Polytechnic derives from the Greek word polytekhnos: polys "many" + tekhne "art" = "skilled in many arts." In classical Greek mythology, Tekhne was the goddess of art and craft.

[ZippyRulz]

Polytechnic derives from the Greek word polytekhnos: polys "many" + tekhne "art" = "skilled in many arts." In classical Greek mythology, Tekhne was the goddess of art and craft.

There ya go, a "tech" grad with mad linguistic and history skills!

[skip-zip]

Dave...our resident master of research.

I guess it's not a stretch to say that this origin information on the word "Polytechnic" may need to be included in future student recruitment marketing material.

And all of those times my mommy sent me to those damn Arts and Craft classes when I was a kid, none of those lame instructors ever taught me about the link to greek mythology. Although, I doubt it would have made a difference in my interest level.

[LZIp]

I am enjoying this conversation too, one of the more productive ones I've seen on the forum in awhile. If you come across that article I'd like to read it, that is very interesting and would be contrary to most of the research I've read about millenials vs other generations. I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong on that point though.

Here you are sir. 538 has some pretty interesting stuff. (Today I learned Lebron is the most clutch shooter of his generation, even though he is often referred to as a choke).

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/enough-already-about-the-job-hopping-millennials/

[skip-zip]

True, LeBron was never a "choke", but he was referred to as such when the delusional Cleveland sports fans ran out of negative things to say about him while he was playing in the Finals every year in another city.

[Dave in Green]

... I'm still waiting for an answer on what this "survival" mode is supposed to mean. Is UA going to cease to exist if there isn't some drastic change?

You've asked this question a couple of times in a couple of different threads. I suspect you haven't been following some of the statements that have come out of Columbus. Well, not really Columbus, because Ohio Governor John Kasich actually made the following comments at the New America Foundation, a think tank in Washington, D.C. It's not unreasonable to think that Governor Kasich has privately made this clear to Dr. Scarborough and other university presidents. This is what the guy who's ultimately responsible for Ohio's public university system, which includes UA, thinks. The guy who Dr. Scarborough has to deal with is, in fact, demanding change, or else.

... Kasich thinks the Midwest incubates fine ideas, but it lacks the capital and the innovative spirit -- especially, when it comes to the latter, in the Midwest's universities.

"One of the big problems that we have in the Midwest when it comes to innovating ... is the Midwest for whatever reason gets extremely comfortable with the status quo," Kasich said. "Change is not something that they get real excited about. And it's reflected in our university structures."

Why do the Silicon Valley and East Coast have so many successes? Kasich asked. "Well it's real simple: because the universities both out in the West and the universities in the East are very open to promoting entrepreneurship, creating spaces for entrepreneurs to work, and the ability to put together creative partnerships that reward the idea creator and takes the idea creator with those people who know how to (develop) those ideas into real substance -- that's what works.

"And in my state of Ohio, we find that we can't commercialize. You can't commercialize most of the products out of our universities in most places in the country. Why? Because there's not a culture of innovation. There's not a culture of risk-taking. There's not a culture of people getting excited about new ideas. There's not a culture that says, 'Damn the status quo, it's time to move ahead before we die.'" ...

So it seems to me that Dr. Scarborough has been asked to make a change, and he's trying to do what he believes to be the most appropriate change that will benefit UA within Ohio's public university system. But, as Governor Kasich points out, some at Ohio universities are averse to change and will likely protest against change. That's where we stand right now. If no change is forthcoming from individual universities, it's within the power of the Ohio Governor and State Legislature to make changes on their own.

[scottditzen]

For the record, I'm all for cutting out some programs that have shown to have very little to no value in the workplace. Kids are told they can go to school and be anything they want, but that just isn't the case anymore. There is only so much you can do with a Fashion Merchandising degree, especially in Ohio, so don't be shocked if you have to take a job at Starbucks upon graduation.

I wonder what they employment rate out of college is for our Fashion Merchandising grads? Painting and drawing? Don't even get me started there. Many of the art majors seem a bit redundant.

I think you're being a little unfair here. I know a lot of successful graphic design majors and art majors. In fact, I'd bet those degrees are a heck of a lot more valuable than Political Science, Criminal Justice and many others.

[a-zip]

Interesting conversation and debate. I know many people don't like Mark Cuban (personally I think he is a genius) but he has had some interesting warnings on where colleges are heading. I will include a few links below…..

He talks about parents and students being more informed about selecting a school vs arbitrarily choosing the "most popular" school. As many have posted on here, most of us did not know what we wanted to do when we were coming out of high school. He talks about the schools themselves needing to cut costs and investing in more specialized programs. He talks about how the money should be invested back in academics vs new weight rooms and arenas.

Things are changing folks. More universities will shut down. New thinking has to happen. I view this rebranding as a step towards becoming more specialized - some programs may get cut and quite frankly maybe they need to in order to survive. Very few schools will be able to provide everything to everyone. Personally, if you get a nursing degree from a "Georgia Tech or Virginia Tech" I don't think your degree is diminished at all. I think too many people put too much in to the name on the piece of paper (diploma)…..it is what you do after you graduate that is important.

Regarding the investment in athletics, I think it was a good idea for UA to try step up to the national stage but the reality is nobody is supporting the teams. The fact is if you are running a business and a department does not generate $$$, it has got to go and dropping 40-60 million chunks into it when there is no demand is not going to fix the problem. This is why I have been so upset by the lack of attendance and support for our teams. If it does not make a profit, break even or increase awareness of the school - cut it lose. That IS already happening at many schools……...I learned these things in UA business school, it's called ECONOMICS ;-)

Last thought - if we did not take the Ohio Tech name, one of the other schools in Ohio would have. I also think if we ultimately become Ohio Tech, it has more of a national appeal to it which I believe is a good idea.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2012/05/16/mark-cuban-college-is-a-business-decision

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/12/28/billionaire-mark-cuban-warns-massive-crash-will-wipe-americas-colleges-youre-going-see-repeat-saw-housing-market/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/13/mark-cuban-forgiving-student-loan-debt-would-bail-out-the-universities/

http://blogmaverick.com/2013/01/26/will-your-college-go-out-of-business-before-you-graduate/

[scottditzen]

I think some people are underestimating how pathetic it will look if our university kills its own name.

Seriously. If the idea is to enhance the school's image this will indeed have the opposite effect. I can just picture it now, with the media running pictures of tombstones that say "U OF AKRON.....DIED 2015" and the like.

[Spin]

I had a choice when I went back to school, to build on my AD in Electronics and my medical experience by going into the Biomedical Engineering, or going into Nursing. Both are in demand. I went into Nursing (despite how competitive it was to get in, and how demanding the program is) because there simply wasn't many (any?) positions in Ohio for Biomed. I would have to move far away.

Is changing the name of a major university going to change that? Will that generate tech jobs in the Midwest? Will it spawn innovation in the Rust Belt?

I chose Akron's program despite being accepted into several other programs because it was part of a major university. And I paid a high price for that name on my degree, compared to other programs. And I graduated from the College of Nursing just in time as the program was "merged" into a bunch of others into the "College of Health Professions". Now, the University is rebranding itself as "polytechnic". You have to understand how nurses are viewed by where they went to school. Especially in the interview.

As I said this is a field with great demand. Local demand. Most of us were working within a week of licensure. I doubled my income on that day. Not to brag, but to illustrate the University is filling a great local need with professionals that are not in the tech field. And a lot of prospective students will choose to go elsewhere. There's a lot to be said for going to a College of Nursing at a major university. And a ot to be said by going to "health professionals" college at a technical school. While spending multiples of what you would pay at XYZ Community College or Bryant and Stratton. It shows employers and co-workers that you do not have the critical thinking and cultural background you get at a university. Or that you couldn't get into a university's program.

Ironically, Akron Institute renamed itself Herzig University. The University of Akron is going in the other direction.

[skip-zip]

Spin. I have family members who went through the Nursing School at the U of A, and they feel the same way as you right now.

You could become a nurse by going online, or to many of these job training technical schools. They chose Akron because they wanted a major university on that degree.

I don't want the U of A to approach being perceived as anything close to that kind of "technical" or "career training" school. That's my biggest concern.

[Balsy]

If there supposedly is no difference between the education you get at a university vs a Polytechnique university, why is this even a discussion? (as in, why would the president even suggest rebranding the university of Akron?)

[jupitertoo]

Short-term, this is a marketing-driven "fix." Don't know that Scarborough has access to the funding and long leash necessary to make this change work over the long term. Needs to stop the bleeding from an enrollment standpoint so he can invest in academics.