LZIp Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 So what is your point Lzip? You are saying we are stupid for trying to change and adapt? Are you saying the educational system is fine the way it is and if schools continue to operate stats quo - they will be fine and prosper? You don't think schools will start to go belly up? Have you read any reports? What can you offer to show that being the University of Akron in Akron Ohio and being another school in Ohio is going to help us survive and prosper in the future. Let me ask a question - if you were from Ohio or from outside the state, why would you choose UA over Toledo, Can't State, Bowling Green, Ohio U?my point is that there is a 95% chance it's a bluff and I'm calling it. It's an excuse for Scarborough to get what he wants. I've stated my opinion all over this thread, that the amount of majors offered is over saturated and cuts need to be made. I am not in favor of some mass repositioning. Who is the last major state university to go "belly up"? I've honestly never heard of it. What about the cost of education? Didn't we just offer a deep discount on our gen Ed courses, you know courses that you spend nearly half of your time in college completing?To answer your last question, I am from Ohio and chose to go to Akron due to my major in a business related degree being ranked top 75ish nationally, being located in the most populated region of the state, and being less competitive than the school that everyone loves on here so much down in Columbus. It worked out pretty well for me. I had a great job waiting for me out of college and have had exposure to many well known corporations regionally as well as internationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-zip Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 my point is that there is a 95% chance it's a bluff and I'm calling it. It's an excuse for Scarborough to get what he wants. I've stated my opinion all over this thread, that the amount of majors offered is over saturated and cuts need to be made. I am not in favor of some mass repositioning. Who is the last major state university to go "belly up"? I've honestly never heard of it. What about the cost of education? Didn't we just offer a deep discount on our gen Ed courses, you know courses that you spend nearly half of your time in college completing?To answer your last question, I am from Ohio and chose to go to Akron due to my major in a business related degree being ranked top 75ish nationally, being located in the most populated region of the state, and being less competitive than the school that everyone loves on here so much down in Columbus. It worked out pretty well for me. I had a great job waiting for me out of college and have had exposure to many well known corporations regionally as well as internationally.So why is it a bluff? What do you think it is he wants? Do you not think he wants what is best for the U of A? I don't understand…Hell, you might as well just say he is an insane dumb ass along with everyone else on the board.BTW - I think you are correct…no major state universities have gone "belly up" YET ….but they will….I promise you that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Are you saying the educational system is fine the way it is and if schools continue to operate stats quo - they will be fine and prosper? You don't think schools will start to go belly up? Have you read any reports? What can you offer to show that being the University of Akron in Akron Ohio and being another school in Ohio is going to help us survive and prosper in the future.Let me ask a question - if you were from Ohio or from outside the state, why would you choose UA over Toledo, Can't State, Bowling Green, Ohio U?The problem with the education system is less about the education system and more about the people and the increasing amount of non-education people whom are charged with running education, that's the problem. A name change and rebranding really isn't fixing the educational woes.I'll answer your last question with another question: If you were from outside the state, why would you choose Akron "Ohio's Polytechnique" over any other state's polytechnique? You choose a school to go to in another state because it has the research/graduate level research opportunities you're looking for. If you're picking a graduate school because it has the name "Polytechnique" in it, well...you're a moron.The whole rebranding idea is absolutely asinine (to quote myself from the ABJ), until Dr. Scarborough releases actual studies with definite conclussions, I will continue to say as much. When asked what research backs up Dr. Scarborough's claims he said "it's proprietary". Bullshit. If it's real research with reliable data, it wouldn't be afraid of peer review...of criticism. It'd be published in journals and there'd be no need to hide behind "proprietary". It has bullshit written all over it.So why is it a bluff? What do you think it is he wants? Do you not think he wants what is best for the U of A? I don't understand…Hell, you might as well just say he is an insane dumb ass along with everyone else on the board.BTW - I think you are correct…no major state universities have gone "belly up" YET ….but they will….I promise you that!!No, I don't think he wants what's best for UA. His lack of transparency, lack of interest in the student body and alumni is alarming. He's already jumped ship numerous times in his career, and a major state university rebranding as a polytechnique makes for a wonderful resume builder in a resume initiative building culture. And no major state university will go belly up, I promise you that. The contention that most universities are going to be gone in 50 years is a crock of crap. It's overly hyperbolic, and built on a plethera of assumptions and fallacies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 This talk of UA, Can't State, YSU & CSU combining to create NEOU made me wonder if there is any sentiment to combine BGSU with UT to create NWOU. Then we could make NEO vs. NWO a football trophy game. Think of the marketing possibilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosAngelesZipFan Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 LosAngelesZipFan, I finally had a chance to read Dr. Scarborough's entire speech, and it's certainly filled with facts and ideas worth considering. I see where some of his statements fit right in with what you've been saying:Merger is always an option to be considered in financially troubled industries, and there's no question that higher education in general is facing increasingly tough economic challenges. When mergers occur in the business world the stronger usually absorb the weaker. So before any UA supporters lobby for a quick merger of NEO universities, it would be prudent to ensure that UA is the strongest of the schools being considered for merger. I see that as Dr. Scarborough's initial move in a chess game of Ohio higher education that will take years to play out. Merger could very well be a future consideration. But the most important issue right now is to move UA closer to the top of the potential merger food chain.Spot on-- and I do give him kudos for at least being proactive and trying to shape the future by carving out a specific and differentiated role for UA in the near term.I also think announcing the dance program funding simultaneously to this public discussion was a pretty clever way to undercut some of the possible criticism.It 'polytech' meant something to anyone, I would on-board and enthusiastic. Unfortunately, it now means explaining 2 things-- what a polytech is and then UA.BTW, anyone that really wants to dig deeper into all this, really good book: Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be http://www.frankbrunibooks.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 This article is a little OT, and deals more with primary + secondary education and not university educations...but I think it's important to the discussion of modern education, and the current drama we see unfolding in the US education system. Here's an article that looks at the US university system when compared to the rest of the World. You'll see Finland in the Top 3, which has a very similar philosophy in higher education as they do in public primary + secondary education. Huh, I wonder if they're having "rebranding" movements in Austrian universities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-zip Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The problem with the education system is less about the education system and more about the people and the increasing amount of non-education people whom are charged with running education, that's the problem. A name change and rebranding really isn't fixing the educational woes.I'll answer your last question with another question: If you were from outside the state, why would you choose Akron "Ohio's Polytechnique" over any other state's polytechnique? You choose a school to go to in another state because it has the research/graduate level research opportunities you're looking for. If you're picking a graduate school because it has the name "Polytechnique" in it, well...you're a moron.The whole rebranding idea is absolutely asinine (to quote myself from the ABJ), until Dr. Scarborough releases actual studies with definite conclussions, I will continue to say as much. When asked what research backs up Dr. Scarborough's claims he said "it's proprietary". Bullshit. If it's real research with reliable data, it wouldn't be afraid of peer review...of criticism. It'd be published in journals and there'd be no need to hide behind "proprietary". It has bullshit written all over it.No, I don't think he wants what's best for UA. His lack of transparency, lack of interest in the student body and alumni is alarming. He's already jumped ship numerous times in his career, and a major state university rebranding as a polytechnique makes for a wonderful resume builder in a resume initiative building culture. And no major state university will go belly up, I promise you that. The contention that most universities are going to be gone in 50 years is a crock of crap. It's overly hyperbolic, and built on a plethera of assumptions and fallacies.In the words of Chris Carter C'MON MAAAAN!! No Balsy, I would not chose a school simply because it had polytechnic in the name and I wouldn't exclude a school for having that as part of their name….I am not a moron. In fact, the name change is not really a big deal to me at all. If I were to give an opinion around the name I would say I like it because if we become known as Ohio Tech….to me that has the appearance of being a larger statewide school vs a community college to a city.The issue to me is around survival, fiscal responsibility and viability in the future. It is about differentiating ourselves just like Apple did…They realized they could not be IBM so the specialized and created their own ecosystem.http://marketrealist.com/2014/01/apple/http://www.entrepreneurial-insights.com/stand-crowd-examples-differentiation/UA and other schools like us will not be able to operate status quo any longer or they will not survive. If you are going to stick your head in the sand and ignore all the reports and warnings around the financial woes institutions are facing, there is no need for me to continue this with you. There are plenty of reports out there, many links have been provided in this thread. Guys like Mark Cuban and Bill Gates get it (they are pretty smart). IT IS VERY REAL just like the real estate crash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 In the words of Chris Carter C'MON MAAAAN!! No Balsy, I would not chose a school simply because it had polytechnic in the name and I wouldn't exclude a school for having that as part of their name….I am not a moron. In fact, the name change is not really a big deal to me at all. If I were to give an opinion around the name I would say I like it because if we become known as Ohio Tech….to me that has the appearance of being a larger statewide school vs a community college to a city.The issue to me is around survival, fiscal responsibility and viability in the future. It is about differentiating ourselves just like Apple did…They realized they could not be IBM so the specialized and created their own ecosystem.http://marketrealist.com/2014/01/apple/http://www.entrepreneurial-insights.com/stand-crowd-examples-differentiation/UA and other schools like us will not be able to operate status quo any longer or they will not survive. If you are going to stick your head in the sand and ignore all the reports and warnings around the financial woes institutions are facing, there is no need for me to continue this with you. There are plenty of reports out there, many links have been provided in this thread. Guys like Mark Cuban and Bill Gates get it (they are pretty smart). IT IS VERY REAL just like the real estate crash.Note when I said "you're a moron" it was directed at a person who would choose a school in that manner, not you individually. But for every 1 example that would make Akron sound larger, there is one (if not many more) examples of making UA sound like a smaller BFE school. Here's the problem with you analogy a-zip: education is not a business. It should not be a business. It should not opperate as a business. It does not work on the same principal of a business. And all these business minded people who have entered into education because it makes governors happy to say "we have welcomed business into education", are the problem. What may be good for business, is not necessarily good for education. That's the fallacy here. Not to mentioned it hasn't been demonstrated in any measurable manner in a peer reviewed process. That's the difference (or should be the difference) between education and business. Education SHOULD be based on what works, not throwing darts at a dartboard on what might work. Read the two articles I posted on the most successful education systems in the world. We KNOW without a doubt what works in education. Of course it doesn't work in a business model...because education's not a business. And it's not supposed to be.I'm not disagreeing with the financial difficulties faced by universities, I do not agree with you on the solution. The soultion is NOT "rebranding" yourself and painting yourself into a niched corner, especially when that rebranding hasn't even been demonstrated to be effective or to have a significant, measurable impact. I don't care what guys like Mark Cuban and Bill Gates think about the future of education. For starters, they have a personal vested interest in blasting public education. They have invested heavily in private schools, and programs designed so siphon public education funds into private hands. Mark Cuban and Bill Gates are also non-educators. They don't know the first thing about an education system. Why is this important? Because the best, most successful schools in the world are run by educators. Why is that significant? Because educators, you know the people who dedicate their lives to it, know what their doing. There's a disdain for educators in the US and THAT's more the problem in the US than anything else.Lastly Mark Cuban and Bill Gates, or anyone for that matter, are not authorities on anything. Just because they think, believe, feel anything... is irrelavent to whether or not it is true or not, or will work or not. Their opinions are only as good as the data, information and peer reviewed substance they have to back it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I agree. That's why it's important to differentiate between a technical institute and a polytechnic university. A technical institute would never dream of launching only the second center for choreography in the nation as Dr. Scarborough announced today. A polytechnic university can embrace both the sciences and the arts.The perception of the general public is what I'm worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 NEO vs NWO. That's awesome Keener.Obviously Neo is the good guy and the New World Order are the bad guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 After the University of Wisconsin-Stout adopted the polytechnic designationin 2007,...Did Keener name that University? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Did Keener name that University? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The Stout logo Keener used is disgusting. I hate it. It looks like a set of bowling pins! There should only be ONE logo for Stout...a single, glass. Period. It is nice and clean and cannot be misinterpreted. All other stout logos absolutely suck.I am so infuriated by this proposed sickening action, I emailed the President. ZipsWin Emeritus.What I discovered was even more heinous...the President is considering changing the name of our beloved University to...get this...Wisconsin PORTER! I scanned the image below from an internal memo...it shows how serious this really is:You don't believe this could happen? Really? Take a look at the Tweet sent by ZipsWin! only a few minutes ago:I hope our alumni start web sites, and implement hashtags to stop this atrocity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I’m still trying to figure out how K92 managed to clip the #5 pin without taking any others down???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I nominate #138 of this thread for post of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I think this whole thing takes an even more damaging turn when the ABJ makes a front page story about the backlash from students/alums, and posts pictures of Tweets from the son of the President, who resides in Texas, arguing with UA alums/students on social media in defense of his dad. His son even included a reference to the new name that was to become "Ohio Tech", if an official name change was going to happen. Wonderful. The unfortunate conclusion to all of this, whether we want it or not, is that "Akron is a Tech School" or "Akron wants to be a Tech School" will be the narrative for many years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I think this whole thing takes an even more damaging turn when the ABJ makes a front page story about the backlash from students/alums, and posts pictures of Tweets from the son of the President, who resides in Texas, arguing with UA alums/students on social media in defense of his dad. His son even included a reference to the new name that was to become "Ohio Tech", if an official name change was going to happen. Wonderful. Here's the link for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZippyRulz Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 http://www.ttu.edu/majors-and-colleges/undergraduate-majors/Here are the majors at Texas "Tech", including Advertising, Anthropology, Apparel Design, Art, Dance, Journalism, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 ZippyRulz, I don't think one person here is concerned about whether a "Tech" school is offering so many other majors or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 ZippyRulz, I don't think one person here is concerned about whether a "Tech" school is offering so many other majors or not. +1. If "Tech" schools and Universities were identical (which is always implied with whoever is saying that) why are we even bothering with a name change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jupitertoo Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Plain Dealer now running a news story indicating the other university presidents are upset about Scarborough's claims re the future of their schools. Definitely saw this coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 So who's backing YSU President Tressel's position on this issue over UA President Scarborough's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 So who's backing YSU President Tressel's position on this issue over UA President Scarborough's? If I'm not mistaken, you were a huge Tressel fan boy when the process was going on. I like the idea of moving UA from the left to the right side of the napkin, but love how every single other public regional president called him out on his bullshit.http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/05/university_presidents_say_university_of_akron_president_was_wrong_to_question_the_future_of_their_schools.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If I'm not mistaken, you were a huge Tressel fan boy when the process was going on. ...You are mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/05/university_presidents_say_university_of_akron_president_was_wrong_to_question_the_future_of_their_schools.html#incart_m-rpt-1This is embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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