Detroit released their OOC schedule

[GoZips]

Akron needs to recruit better than that

Noah is one hell of a recruit. "Better than that" is a slap at both Noah and the basketball staff.

Not mentioned in the news article was the fact that Noah's final choice was between the Zips and Missouri.

Akron won out because Missouri had point guards stacked up like cord wood. The Zips had none. Wise

choice Noah.

[morris buttermaker]

It wasn't about Noah--I think he is great.... it was about recruiting off of 20 wins

[zippyman23]

Nothing wrong with recruiting off 20+ wins, but there is a limit to which teams we can compete against. Besides Akron, Noah's only other official visit was to San Jose State. Our gain, but I really would like to see us start enhancing our recruiting position. We've been using the same 20+ win pitch for 6-7 years now? It's great that we can still use it, but frustrating that there isn't more to sell.

[morris buttermaker]

When consecutive 20+ wins puts you in a small group of schools that all have a great history of NCAA success-- and you don't, you are miss-using/ valuing the info... the 20+ wins should not be the hook to bring in kids

[Dave in Green]

We can wish for more while still appreciating what we have. Everyone understands that UA is not in the same class as the likes of Duke, Kansas and the other major programs that have won 20 or more games for 10 or more straight seasons against tough competition. But that level of consistency is not easy for any program to achieve even with easy schedules. Season after season more than half of the D-I teams in the country play weaker overall schedules than UA, yet not a single one of them has been able to match the Zips' 10-year string of 20+ win seasons. That's a worthy achievement for Zips fans to take pride in at the same time they're wishing for even greater future achievements.

[skip-zip]

That's true Dave. You should go out and sell your program with things that set you apart from the rest. For now, the consecutive 20 win seasons is the hallmark of our program. I wish we could slap other, more prominent labels on ourselves. We all do. But this is what we have for now, and it's obviously not easy to achieve.

[K92]

I think recruiting will probably pick up since we renamed the College of Education.

[Sportsjunkie330]

We can wish for more while still appreciating what we have. Everyone understands that UA is not in the same class as the likes of Duke, Kansas and the other major programs that have won 20 or more games for 10 or more straight seasons against tough competition. But that level of consistency is not easy for any program to achieve even with easy schedules. Season after season more than half of the D-I teams in the country play weaker overall schedules than UA, yet not a single one of them has been able to match the Zips' 10-year string of 20+ win seasons. That's a worthy achievement for Zips fans to take pride in at the same time they're wishing for even greater future achievements.

I agree with everything that you say here but what has winning 20+ games for 10 years done to the UA program? I can tell you a couple of things that it has not done... improved the attendance, gotten an NCAA Tourney win (or been close), or improved the home schedule.

Yes the program is in a better spot than it was 10 years ago but it is in the same spot that it was 7 years ago. In my opinion, the 20+ win thing is overrated here at Akron.

[Dave in Green]

As with most everything in life, the 20+ win thing is overrated by some, underrated by some and kept in proper perspective by some. That's why the discussion goes on and on and on.

[skip-zip]

I'll put myself among those who want much, much more from this basketball program.

But for those who think that the consecutive 20 win seasons is not a big deal, I'll ask you to come up with something more significant that epitomizes our program right now, and can be used to sell recruits on the idea that Akron is a special place.

[Sportsjunkie330]

I'll put myself among those who want much, much more from this basketball program.

But for those who think that the consecutive 20 win seasons is not a big deal, I'll ask you to come up with something more significant that epitomizes our program right now, and can be used to sell recruits on the idea that Akron is a special place.

And that's another place where I disagree....I don't even think the recruits care.

[skip-zip]

Sportsjunkie.....that's why I am asking.

What other great accomplishment do we use to sell the success of our program to recruits....TODAY?

[Dave in Green]

....I don't even think the recruits care.

The fact is that the Zips coaching staff uses the 20+ win streak as a recruiting tool. Noah and other recruits have stated in the media and in private that they care. There's no law that says everyone has to believe this.

[Dr Z]

What other great accomplishment do we use to sell the success of our program to recruits

Playing time. A coach who spent time with LBJ who shows up to practice, you'll probably meet him. Coach with a long contract (stability). The most important thing seems to be making a young man feel "comfortable" in the environment he is visiting. Make him feel good about his decision to spend four/five years learning the game and attending classes. Cost aside, the campus has become much more aesthetic. The players that are on the team need help that recruit feel comfortable. I remember Lee Owens telling a story of a player he had that he called his "closer", who had a unique set of social skills.

[skip-zip]

Dr. Z....I'm well aware of all of that.

I'm asking for ACCOMPLISHMENTS of the program. What's more significant, right now, than the decade of consecutive 20 win seasons?

[zippy5]

7 of the last 8 (? - I forget the number at the moment) MAC championship game appearances. 3 conference titles. Those mean more than 20 wins, imo

[zippyman23]

IMO, the 20+ win thing is just something to be used in the initial recruiting phase to get the recruit interested in learning more about the program. That's it.

[Dave in Green]

Playing time. A coach who spent time with LBJ who shows up to practice, you'll probably meet him. Coach with a long contract (stability). The most important thing seems to be making a young man feel "comfortable" in the environment he is visiting. Make him feel good about his decision to spend four years learning the game and attending classes. Cost aside, the campus has become much more aesthetic.

Those are also all used as recruiting tools and have also been mentioned in recruit comments to the media and in private, just like the 20+ win streak. No single factor is decisive with every recruit, so it's important to have as many recruiting tools as possible to work with. While it's true that this hasn't yet taken the Zips program to the next level, it has kept the Zips at a remarkably consistent winning level that other similar programs have been unable to achieve. The Zips coaching staff would dearly love to add an NCAA tournament run to their list of recruiting tools.

[skip-zip]

Zippy5....those are good ones too. No doubt. I think you see almost all of those mentioned in conjunction all the time.

And for the record....it's 7 out of the last 9 trips to the title game. We didn't make it the last two years. But I believe that the 7 in a row was a very significant accomplishment to mention, until that string was broken.

[morris buttermaker]

Frankly, it is a tough program to sell. They play in the MAC (which is ok for middle recruits), play in a gym, have no student support, not great support overall, play an avg ooc schedule, play a lousy ooc home schedule, are limited financially (like many programs) and have never won a tourney game.

So I guess 20 + wins is something to talk about... but as I have said before, an ooc road schedule vs bigger teams --at the expense of a weak home schedule, will appeal to a better player/ recruit, in my opinion.....and moves the program along.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Frankly, it is a tough program to sell. They play in the MAC (which is ok for middle recruits), play in a gym, have no student support, not great support overall, play an avg ooc schedule, play a lousy ooc home schedule, are limited financially (like many programs) and have never won a tourney game.

So I guess 20 + wins is something to talk about... but as I have said before, an ooc road schedule vs bigger teams --at the expense of a weak home schedule, will appeal to a better player/ recruit, in my opinion.....and moves the program along.

I disagree with your first segment, and agree with the last.

The program KD has built is absolutely not a tough sell. We're sufficiently on national TV (in comparison to our peer programs). Play for championships every year. In an NBA arena. Have recently beaten the likes of Oregon State, South Carolina and USC. The support is fine. Zips fans show up for big games. They don't for tripe. It's no different than anywhere else in comparison to our peer programs.

One thing no one has given KD any credit for is his effort to change over time with regards to recruiting.

He arrived, and the team was crap. He turned it around with good, hometown/Ohio kids. He recognized the program's growth was limited by doing only this, and opened the door to high-risk/high-reward kids. Those were hit and miss, with more big misses than hits. But the guy tried...there's no blue print for success. And often in college sports you are stuck with the effects of your errors, big or small, for 4 or more years. He had at least 3 players that should have been in the rafters next to Bill Turner and Joe Jakubik...and none of them finished their eligibility at UA.

The program evolved again, changing the recruiting focus from relatively "local" kids... to High-risk/High-reward, to now one of a more national scope. HS kids from Texas and Nevada would never have been on a Zips roster over the first 7-8 years. Will it work? I don't know. But the early reports look good.

I agree that, now that we allegedly have all these fantastic recruits, our peer programs should also be of elevated stature. We need to begin playing them more often. Home-home. I wish Dambrot embraced the "Gonzaga of the East" comment rather than regretted it.

I would bet 70% of the D1 basketball schools wish their program was as tough a sell as Akron's. Even if we'd have won only 19 games last season.

[Roo]

at mid majors scared to come to Akron...

Winning clearly does not matter to the Akron area, fans don't show up. I played college basketball and when you schedule teams I have never heard of, how in the world do you expect people to come out in the dead of winter for South Carolina State and Lipscomb, come on now....

It's a shame the CSU series was not continued, that was a fun game in both venues. Can't/Ohio are the only conference games that draw....(Toledo?)...

Even if we had to pay the Penn States and other lower run Big Ten teams, I cannot image they wouldn't come. They aren't very good, but at least it is a name.

20 win seasons mean nothing when you cannot even put up a decent effort when you make the NCAAs. This program will never advance if they don't compete against big teams, make an NCAA run and start a more challenging schedule.

[Dave in Green]

... I played college basketball ...

... Even if we had to pay the Penn States and other lower run Big Ten teams, I cannot image they wouldn't come. ...

I'd expect someone who actually played college basketball to be more familiar with the subject at hand. Imagine this. I just checked a few lesser Big Ten team schedules at random to see how many OOC road games they have this season against mid-majors in gyms like the JAR:

* Minnesota has no OOC road games; they're all home or neutral site.

* Nebraska has 1 OOC road game at Creighton.

* Purdue has 1 OOC road game at Pitt.

* Northwestern has 2 OOC road games at Virginia Tech and DePaul.

That's a total for 4 Big Ten teams of 4 OOC road games, all at high majors in large arenas.

[GoZips]

at mid majors scared to come to Akron...

Sorry I missed you at this morning's staff meeting where this topic was discussed.

Winning clearly does not matter to the Akron area, fans don't show up. I played college basketball and when you schedule teams I have never heard of, how in the world do you expect people to come out in the dead of winter for South Carolina State and Lipscomb, come on now....

People did not come up for early Winter games against Gene Keade's Purdue Boilermakers or Lon Kruger's

Kansas State Wildcats, either.

It's a shame the CSU series was not continued, that was a fun game in both venues. Can't/Ohio are the only conference games that draw....(Toledo?)...

Actually the Zips draw well against Buffalo, too. How about a better conference? Would that help? The Zips play

Cleveland State this Fall at Cant's Memorial Hall as part of the Coaches vs. Cancer series.

Even if we had to pay the Penn States and other lower run Big Ten teams, I cannot image they wouldn't come. They aren't very good, but at least it is a name.

You have a standing invitation to put forth your views in Coach Dambrot's office. Just be sure to schedule it

for mid-week, afternoon. He would love a concrete, fool proof plan to get Penn State nnd other Big Ten games.

20 win seasons mean nothing when you cannot even put up a decent effort when you make the NCAAs. This program will never advance if they don't compete against big teams, make an NCAA run and start a more challenging schedule.

Here I have to strongly disagree with you. Twenty win seasons mean a lot. They get Akron good tournament games,

television, national recognition and interest from potential future players that three win teams never see.

What other MAC school has a consistent, long string of twenty win seasons? Ask any MAC coach if they would

swap their record with Akron. Winning is important. Remember, that is why they keep score and do not give

out trophies for just showing up.

[Dr Z]

...that is why they keep score and do not give out trophies for just showing up.

Don't get too excited, but they do.