Critiquing Coach Bowden

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, g-mann17 said:

Bowden's best season, has also been Akron's best overall record

 

28 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Akron's best season by record is the 7-4 Lee Owens team.

 

Wow.  For two guys who have spent a lot of time here, I can't believe you're both wrong.  

 

The 1992 team still holds the "best record" title with a 7-3-1 mark.  

 

Bowden's distinction is that he had the first team to reach 8 wins in a season.  

[K92]

8 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

 

Wow.  For two guys who have spent a lot of time here, I can't believe you're both wrong.  

 

The 1992 team still holds the "best record" title with a 7-3-1 mark.  

 

Bowden's distinction is that he had the first team to reach 8 wins in a season.  

Wisdom from one of the ancients.

[skip-zip]

3 minutes ago, K92 said:

Wisdom from one of the ancients.

 

Oh, please don't go there.  When I see the "blue hairs" with their canes getting assistance to their seats at basketball games, I suddenly feel pretty darn young.  

[K92]

While we are enjoying history class, which title of this thread did most ZN.o members like the most?

 

"Fire Coach Bowden"

"Questioning Coach Bowden"

Or

"Critiquing Coach Bowden"

 

Maybe it will be renamed soon to 

"Remembering Coach Bowden"

[K92]

Woodson is probably not the top area of concern for the Zips but he gets the most attention because of his position.  The departure of Natson and Lane is a gaping hole to fill and there is no one on the roster that can hold a candle to those two guys.  Lane's talent was really blossoming and JoJo was the biggest playmaker on offense since. . .Who?  It goes back some years!

 

We have currently whiffed on WR recruits and transfers.  I have to wonder if the NC State guys would have made a difference.

 

The story of the Zips in the Bowden years has been Jatavis Brown and the transfers that panned out.  The reason why the Zips went 8-5 once is because of Jamal Marcus, Cody Grice, Rodney Coe, SeVon Pittman, Dylan Evans, Jatavis Brown and Daryl Monroe.  Period.  That's a 100 year storm.  It's never happening again.  We play in the MAC and I am not going to ever be happy until we have a balls out, tempo, score as much as you can track meet out there on the field.  Bowden always saying how he wants the Zips to be known for their defense shows how out to lunch he is.  You have to recruit well for defense.  It's see ball, hit ball.  No amount of scheming is going to make up for lack of talent.  This is basic $hit!

[Zipgrad01]

7 hours ago, K92 said:

Woodson is probably not the top area of concern for the Zips but he gets the most attention because of his position.  The departure of Natson and Lane is a gaping hole to fill and there is no one on the roster that can hold a candle to those two guys.  Lane's talent was really blossoming and JoJo was the biggest playmaker on offense since. . .Who?  It goes back some years!

 

We have currently whiffed on WR recruits and transfers.  I have to wonder if the NC State guys would have made a difference.

 

The story of the Zips in the Bowden years has been Jatavis Brown and the transfers that panned out.  The reason why the Zips went 8-5 once is because of Jamal Marcus, Cody Grice, Rodney Coe, SeVon Pittman, Dylan Evans, Jatavis Brown and Daryl Monroe.  Period.  That's a 100 year storm.  It's never happening again.  We play in the MAC and I am not going to ever be happy until we have a balls out, tempo, score as much as you can track meet out there on the field.  Bowden always saying how he wants the Zips to be known for their defense shows how out to lunch he is.  You have to recruit well for defense.  It's see ball, hit ball.  No amount of scheming is going to make up for lack of talent.  This is basic $hit!

You forgot to add Donnell Alexander at running back. Also, don't forget we played the weakest schedule in D1 history that season with the last half of foes combining for like 5 or 6 wins between all of them. So yes....the stars aligned. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Zipgrad01

[Balsy]

13 hours ago, K92 said:

While we are enjoying history class, which title of this thread did most ZN.o members like the most?

 

"Fire Coach Bowden"

"Questioning Coach Bowden"

Or

"Critiquing Coach Bowden"

 

Maybe it will be renamed soon to 

"Remembering Coach Bowden"

 

It all depends, my line in the sand is BGSU.  No excuse for not  beating them this year.  Period.

[Dr Z]

10 hours ago, K92 said:

The departure of Natson and Lane is a gaping hole to fill and there is no one on the roster that can hold a candle to those two guys.

Yep, this is basically what coach said at the beginning of the year. Paraphrasing "we are going to have to rely on our running game early in the year until we find out who is going to fill the holes left by Natson and Lane in the passing game" I don't think we have seen our best passing game of the year yet. 

[UA1987]

I like the job Terry is doing, but I would prefer that he be more like a riverboat gambler and less like an evangelical minister. It's right that he is trying to make good men out of his players, but in games like Iowa State we need to go all in and take risks to win. Being conservative and running the same plays in games when you are somewhat outmatched will produce a loss, unless the other team is just having an overall bad day. Practice a plan B set of plays and don't just chart it up at half. Additionally, I don't like to hear comments similar to what Amato said before Penn State. I heard on a pregame discussion that Chuck joked with our AD saying to let him know when the check is in hand so he could put put in our reserves. I like Chuck too, but never say this stuff as it gets around and does no good. Anyhow, I'm with Terry and his staff. Is is just me or does he send the message that he wants to win in his old stomping grounds (West Virginia - Marshall and Pitt)? Maybe we can look to an all in OOC effort in Alabama this week. This brings me to my final criticism in that I don't want to just focus on MAC games. Terry seems to send this message about conference games, but he should try to win them all and not just pick up the check.                   

Edited September 21, 2017 by UA1987

[Zipgrad01]

43 minutes ago, UA1987 said:

I like the job Terry is doing, but I would prefer that he be more like a riverboat gambler and less like an evangelical minister. It's right that he is trying to make good men out of his players, but in games like Iowa State we need to go all in and take risks to win. Being conservative and running the same plays in games when you are somewhat outmatched will produce a loss, unless the other team is just having an overall bad day. Practice a plan B set of plays and don't just chart it up at half. Additionally, I don't like to hear comments similar to what Amato said before Penn State. I heard on a pregame discussion that Chuck joked with our AD saying to let him know when the check is in hand so he could put put in our reserves. I like Chuck too, but never say this stuff as it gets around and does no good. Anyhow, I'm with Terry and his staff. Is is just me or does he send the message that he wants to win in his old stomping grounds (West Virginia - Marshall and Pitt)? Maybe we can look to an all in OOC effort in Alabama this week. This brings me to my final criticism in that I don't want to just focus on MAC games. Terry seems to send this message about conference games, but he should try to win them all and not just pick up the check.                   

What exactly do you like? I agree with your examples and to me it appears that he doesn't really care to win. There are far too many complacent fans that say "oh, Akron has never been good. At least we are almost .500 most of the time. I am happy. Remember how bad we were before he got here? He sure is recruiting a lot of local guys. That is great! Maybe their family and friends will come watch. Heck, maybe next year we can even make the potato chip and dip bowl". 

 

We sound like a high school fan base and a bad one at that. The guy is on cruise control with zero urgency to win. Keener said it best... "does the guy wear a mask when he gets his paycheck?"

[LZIp]

Donnell Alexander and his whole 494 yards of rushing that year does not belong in the same sentence as the others.. Hundley was the feature back that year and almost got to 1000. Let's hope this season ends the same way it did when this thread was started.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by LZIp

[g-mann17]

1 hour ago, Zipgrad01 said:

What exactly do you like? I agree with your examples and to me it appears that he doesn't really care to win. There are far too many complacent fans that say "oh, Akron has never been good. At least we are almost .500 most of the time. I am happy. Remember how bad we were before he got here? He sure is recruiting a lot of local guys. That is great! Maybe their family and friends will come watch. Heck, maybe next year we can even make the potato chip and dip bowl". 

 

We sound like a high school fan base and a bad one at that. The guy is on cruise control with zero urgency to win. Keener said it best... "does the guy wear a mask when he gets his paycheck?"

I don't think anyone is complacent.  I do think that you seem to gloss over how terrible the team was, and that Bowden has accomplished something.  I also think that he isn't on the hot seat until next year.  Injuries ruined a promising season last year.  Troy is the first game against "similar" competition so far this year and let's not forget that Bowden is the one that set the expectations of competing against better competition with tough losses to Michigan and Tennessee.

 

But you keep assuming that people are "complacent".

[Zipgrad01]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

Donnell Alexander and his whole 494 yards of rushing that year does not belong in the same sentence as the others.. Hundley was the feature back that year and almost got to 1000. Let's hope this season ends the same way it did when this thread was started.

 

 

The guy added quality depth to the position and also scored a Td in the spud bowl. He was a solid contributor as a transfer. I never said he was the team MVP. 

[Zipgrad01]

3 hours ago, g-mann17 said:

I don't think anyone is complacent.  I do think that you seem to gloss over how terrible the team was, and that Bowden has accomplished something.  I also think that he isn't on the hot seat until next year.  Injuries ruined a promising season last year.  Troy is the first game against "similar" competition so far this year and let's not forget that Bowden is the one that set the expectations of competing against better competition with tough losses to Michigan and Tennessee.

 

But you keep assuming that people are "complacent".

I don't gloss over the fact of what he has accomplished. He took an ianello destroyed 1-11 team to a program that has had 1 decent season in 5. The best season included us beating a 1-AA team and a run at the end of the season that pitted us up against the 5 worst teams in D-1 college football. The cherry on top was a bowl win to an under .500 Utah state team. Look... I enjoyed the last half of that season because we were winning, but I took it for what it was... lucky scheduling and a group a decent senior transfers + "jatav-e-us brown".  

 

We have since regressed to Lee Owens and JD Brookhart level teams. At least some of Lee Owens teams were fun to watch. They scored in bunches. Watching the current zips play is like sitting in the dentist chair, even when we win. Season 6 is obviously off to a rocky start. We will see how things turn out. Maybe Iowa State is a lot better than people think and we make a run through the rest of the schedule. I hope that is the case, but so far I have serious doubts. 

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, Zipgrad01 said:

We have since regressed to Lee Owens and JD Brookhart level teams. At least some of Lee Owens teams were fun to watch. They scored in bunches. Watching the current zips play is like sitting in the dentist chair, even when we win.

+1

I haven't had a fun time watching a Zips game in a pretty long time. And for a die-hard like me to say that is not a small deal.

[Balsy]

6 hours ago, Zipgrad01 said:

What exactly do you like? I agree with your examples and to me it appears that he doesn't really care to win. There are far too many complacent fans that say "oh, Akron has never been good. At least we are almost .500 most of the time. I am happy. Remember how bad we were before he got here? He sure is recruiting a lot of local guys. That is great! Maybe their family and friends will come watch. Heck, maybe next year we can even make the potato chip and dip bowl". 

 

We sound like a high school fan base and a bad one at that. The guy is on cruise control with zero urgency to win. Keener said it best... "does the guy wear a mask when he gets his paycheck?"

 

I mean it is objectively true...Akron has always been terrible...

[kreed5120]

17 hours ago, g-mann17 said:

I don't think anyone is complacent.  I do think that you seem to gloss over how terrible the team was, and that Bowden has accomplished something.  I also think that he isn't on the hot seat until next year.  Injuries ruined a promising season last year.  Troy is the first game against "similar" competition so far this year and let's not forget that Bowden is the one that set the expectations of competing against better competition with tough losses to Michigan and Tennessee.

 

But you keep assuming that people are "complacent".

My expectations are set by what our peers like WMU, CMU, Toledo, and NIU have been able to achieve. I get it we'll likely never go 13-1, but considering we have the nicest facilities in the MAC and play in a recruiting hot bed, there is no reason we can't consistently win 7-10 games. There are few fan bases that would defend a coach that only had 1 winning season in 5 years. Perhaps that type of apathy and being content playing borderline .500 football is why Akron hasn't progressed to being more successful. 

[Balsy]

11 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

My expectations are set by what our peers like WMU, CMU, Toledo, and NIU have been able to achieve. I get it we'll likely never go 13-1, but considering we have the nicest facilities in the MAC and play in a recruiting hot bed, there is no reason we can't consistently win 7-10 games. There are few fan bases that would defend a coach that only had 1 winning season in 5 years. Perhaps that type of apathy and being content playing borderline .500 football is why Akron hasn't progressed to being more successful. 

 

How many of our peers went 3-33?  After only one winning season in a decade before that?  And then pulled off the type of Success you're talking about?
 

That's been the central debate on this forum.  Can we reconcile that contention.  And, those one-hit-wonders like KSU and now (apparently) BGSU, if we were in their position was it worth it?  I too want what Toledo NIU, WMU have.  But what is the realistic time-frame to get there...sustainably.  Who in the hell is there that we can bring in who can take us to the next level?  The last time the brought someone in not-named Bowden, it destroyed the what little program we had, if anything.

 

I want more.  I'm getting to that point, I agree with you.  My expectations are not being met.  But I'm not sold that there is a silver-bullet out there.  I'm more convinced we're going to get worse, than I am that we are going to get better.  Call me a tortured Browns/Indians/Cavs/Zips fan (though some of those teams are now seeing success after decades of torture).

[K92]

Everyone acts like we can't get another coach if we fire Bowden.  Everyone wants a name.  Here's a name.

 

Sonny Dykes.

[LZIp]

13 hours ago, K92 said:

Everyone acts like we can't get another coach if we fire Bowden.  Everyone wants a name.  Here's a name.

 

Sonny Dykes.

He would fit right in.

 

Quote

The Golden Bears struggled in Dykes' first season, finishing with a 1–11 record. Dykes' first season marked the first time since Cal began playing football in 1886 that the team failed to defeat a single D-1 FBS opponent in a season that has lasted at least five games.

 

[K92]

7 hours ago, LZIp said:

He would fit right in.

 

 

Gosh.  Bowden got a free pass for his 1-11 season.  What u got against Sonny?

[kreed5120]

On 9/22/2017 at 8:35 PM, Balsy said:

 

How many of our peers went 3-33?  After only one winning season in a decade before that?  And then pulled off the type of Success you're talking about?
 

That's been the central debate on this forum.  Can we reconcile that contention.  And, those one-hit-wonders like KSU and now (apparently) BGSU, if we were in their position was it worth it?  I too want what Toledo NIU, WMU have.  But what is the realistic time-frame to get there...sustainably.  Who in the hell is there that we can bring in who can take us to the next level?  The last time the brought someone in not-named Bowden, it destroyed the what little program we had, if anything.

 

I want more.  I'm getting to that point, I agree with you.  My expectations are not being met.  But I'm not sold that there is a silver-bullet out there.  I'm more convinced we're going to get worse, than I am that we are going to get better.  Call me a tortured Browns/Indians/Cavs/Zips fan (though some of those teams are now seeing success after decades of torture).

Chris Creighton was a no name coach who took over an historically equally as bad EMU program and has them playing pretty good football right now while competing in a much tougher division. Despite being hired 2 years after Bowden, EMU looks much closer to being real contenders in the MAC. You can't let the fear of striking out stop you from playing the game. Somewhere out there is a guy who can turn the Akron program into a winner. Its Larry Williams job to find him.

[Balsy]

2 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

Chris Creighton was a no name coach who took over an historically equally as bad EMU program and has them playing pretty good football right now while competing in a much tougher division. Despite being hired 2 years after Bowden, EMU looks much closer to being real contenders in the MAC. You can't let the fear of striking out stop you from playing the game. Somewhere out there is a guy who can turn the Akron program into a winner. Its Larry Williams job to find him.

 

Two years ago we looked like real contenders in the MAC.  I do think you do have to er on the side of caution.  Can this program really afford another iCoach?  Bowden and Brookhart have achieved the same relative success.  Lee Owens I've always been told was a "top" Akron coach...and yet he didn't see a winning season until his 5th season with the Zips.  Then had the idiocy to fire him after a 7-5 season (of course, as has been recounted to me by others and reading MAC forums from 2003).  

 

Akron Zips football is a case study on what not to do.  I do fear striking out.  Every year a lose interest in Zips football, and I'm one of the young fans.  I'm worried my zealotry fandom won't last another iCoach.  Am I happy with Bowden?  After Saturday's loss, I'm growing tired.  But I've had more fun with Bowden teams than I've had with any other Zips football.  So IDK what to think.

[kreed5120]

3 minutes ago, Balsy said:

 

Two years ago we looked like real contenders in the MAC.  I do think you do have to er on the side of caution.  Can this program really afford another iCoach?  Bowden and Brookhart have achieved the same relative success.  Lee Owens I've always been told was a "top" Akron coach...and yet he didn't see a winning season until his 5th season with the Zips.  Then had the idiocy to fire him after a 7-5 season (of course, as has been recounted to me by others and reading MAC forums from 2003).  

 

Akron Zips football is a case study on what not to do.  I do fear striking out.  Every year a lose interest in Zips football, and I'm one of the young fans.  I'm worried my zealotry fandom won't last another iCoach.  Am I happy with Bowden?  After Saturday's loss, I'm growing tired.  But I've had more fun with Bowden teams than I've had with any other Zips football.  So IDK what to think.

You mean the same year we lost to BGSU by a score of 59-10? IMO we've never looked like we were one of the best teams in the MAC. We've literally only beaten 1 MAC team with a winning record in Bowden's 5 seasons here. EMU has much worst facilities than we do, they have a smaller fan base, and just as bad of a history. We're well on our way to missing 5 postseasons in 6 years. This isn't a Dambrot situation where the team has been successful but people are wanting more. The Zips have solidly been in the bottom half of the MAC under Bowden. A coaching change is a no brainer

[Balsy]

8 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

You mean the same year we lost to BGSU by a score of 59-10? IMO we've never looked like we were one of the best teams in the MAC. We've literally only beaten 1 MAC team with a winning record in Bowden's 5 seasons here. EMU has much worst facilities than we do, they have a smaller fan base, and just as bad of a history. We're well on our way to missing 5 postseasons in 6 years. This isn't a Dambrot situation where the team has been successful but people are wanting more. The Zips have solidly been in the bottom half of the MAC under Bowden. A coaching change is a no brainer

 

You mean the year when we went 7-5 in the regular season and won our first Bowl game ever?  I completely disagree.  Most in the MAC had us finishing second behind Ohio, which is "Contending in the MAC". Yeah, that one.  I only made the arbitrary "two year comparison" because you brought it up as a metric for EMU.  

 

We were basically in the exact same situation as them.  Chris Creighton arguably had a worse success in order to get to a bowl game than we did:  2-10, 1-11 then 7-6 Bowl Loss.  Can you imagine if we'd have that here?  We'd fired  the guy after those two seasons and repeated the failure wagon, allowing it continue to spin.  Akron went 1-11, 5-7, 5-then 8-5.  Arguably positioned better than that in the second 5-7 year (injuries derailed that season yet again) and then arguably positioned to repeat last year with a Bowl appearance if not, again, for injury.  That IS competing in the MAC.  I am currently unhappy, yes.  I want more.  But I'm not willing to pretend like Chris Creighton is somehow this great get we "could" have had.  Everything you could point to say Creighton is great, we could find an equal comparison to Bowden's tenure here.  

 

I know injuries aren't an excuse...but Akron's been one hell of a snake-bitten organization.  Like it's almost cursed.  I'm tired of pulling my hair out in frustration.  But I'm also worried to death that the people running athletics don't know what their doing.  Do I really trust them to blow it up...again...and get it right?