G5 Considering Their Own Playoffs?

[Blue & Gold]

 

[skip-zip]

Whatever anyone's thoughts are about competing in the NIT, I'm sure you'd probably feel the same about this.  

[Blue & Gold]

Something, though, has to be done.  Even if no one on earth realistically believes WMU is one of the top 4 teams in the country, the fact that they are a D-1 school & went undefeated means they should make the playoff & have a chance at the national championship.

 

Again, I know WMU's not a Top 4 team, but that's irrelevant.  An undefeated D-I school should be in, no matter what conference they belong to.  Otherwise, why call them D-I?

 

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Blue & Gold

[skip-zip]

14 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Something, though, has to be done.  Even if no one on earth realistically believes WMU is one of the top 4 teams in the country, the fact that they are a D-1 school & went undefeated means they should make the playoff & have a chance at the national championship.

 

Again, I know WMU's not a Top 4 team, but that's irrelevant.  An undefeated D-I school should be in, no matter what conference they belong to.  Otherwise, why call them D-I?

 

Absolutely.  The fact that the system is already pre-rigged against that happening is what needs to be fixed.  

 

Look back at the 1979 Indiana State Sycamores basketball team.  They were undefeated and Ranked #1 in the AP poll and got a #1 seed in the tournament, and got a legitimate shot at the title, despite competing in a lower level conference.  You would never see anything close to this ever happening to a similar D-1 football program.  

[K92]

The G5 schools serve a purpose to the P5 programs.  Because G5 schools are so hard up for money, payday games have been an accepted payback for being relegated to a second class status by the power structure.  The G5 conferences need to band together and present a list of demands that need to be met or else.  The else is that the G5 conferences will ban their schools from scheduling any more games with the power schools.  The approximately 100 wins that the P5 enjoys over the G5 would dry up and could not be ignored.  It would have a huge effect on the bowl situation at the end of the year, to name just one outcome.  The G5 needs to stop whoring itself out.  The million dollar ATM games don't balance the books for most G5 programs, so it's not like it's a make-or-break scenario if they went away.  We need to see a lot more compensation coming our direction to remain being the P5 whipping boys.

Edited December 29, 2016 by K92

[ZachTheZip]

If they want a separate playoff, they are free to join the FCS.

[K92]

I am against the G5 having their own playoff because it makes no sense.  It's that syndrome of today where everyone wants a trophy even if it doesn't mean squat and a G5 trophy wouldn't mean squat.

 

The argument being made is that the G5 schools have no chance of EVER winning a NC in football.  This is true.  Neither do the majority of P5 schools.  No chance.  The difference is they do have access to the playoff by virtue of their conference affiliation, but they have a snowball's chance in Hell of ever winning it.

 

Just for shits and giggles, I went back through the last 50 years of National Champs.  Some of these are disputed or split, which I noted with an S.  Take a look and see if you see what I see.

 

Alabama-15, 12, 11, 09, '92, 79, 78 (S), 73 (S)

 

Ohio State-14, 02, 70 (S), 68

 

Florida State-13, 99, 93

 

Auburn-10

 

Florida-08, 06, 96

 

LSU-07, 03

 

Texas-05, 70 (S), 69

 

USC-04, 78 (S), 74 (S), 72, 67

 

Miami-'01, 91 (S), 89, 87, 83

 

Oklahoma-00, 85, 75, 74 (S)

 

Tennessee-98

 

Nebraska-97 (S), 95, 94, 71, 70 (S)

 

Michigan-97 (S)

 

Washington-91 (S)

 

Ga. Tech-90 (S)

 

Colorado-90 (S)

 

Notre Dame-88, 77, 73 (S), 66 (S)

 

Penn State-86, 82

 

BYU-84

 

Clemson-81

 

Georgia-80

 

Pitt-76

 

Michigan State-66 (S)

 

Forgive me for any mistakes.

 

Looks like a pretty exclusive club.  Who do you think has a legitimate shot at winning a NC that is not on the list?  There are certainly a couple on the list that never will win it again.

 

This is the reason I don't get too upset about Akron having no path to the NC.  We are in the same boat as the majority of the P5 but we just get a lot less of the money pie than they do to be cannon fodder for the Blue Bloods.

 

Apologies for the long winded post.

[Z.I.P.]

15 hours ago, skip-zip said:

Whatever anyone's thoughts are about competing in the NIT, I'm sure you'd probably feel the same about this.  

What would you say if the NCAA March madness were restricted to only P-5 schools?  That's the valid comparison.

Personally, I rarely watch the CFP games, and probably won't again this time around.  I would be no more or less likely to pay attention to a G-5 playoff.  I do watch particular bowl games like the Rose Bowl and Sun Bowl strictly out of the games' traditions.  Did you know the Sun Bowl has been played since 1935?  I really miss the Bluebonnet Bowl in Houston!  It was older still.

[skip-zip]

20 hours ago, K92 said:

The G5 schools serve a purpose to the P5 programs.  Because G5 schools are so hard up for money, payday games have been an accepted payback for being relegated to a second class status by the power structure.  The G5 conferences need to band together and present a list of demands that need to be met or else.  The else is that the G5 conferences will ban their schools from scheduling any more games with the power schools.  The approximately 100 wins that the P5 enjoys over the G5 would dry up and could not be ignored.  It would have a huge effect on the bowl situation at the end of the year, to name just one outcome.  The G5 needs to stop whoring itself out.  The million dollar ATM games don't balance the books for most G5 programs, so it's not like it's a make-or-break scenario if they went away.  We need to see a lot more compensation coming our direction to remain being the P5 whipping boys.

 

A lot of this is really good thinking.  We could all definitely band together to get this done.

 

But let me just correct you on one thing here.  The "payday" games might not balance out the costs, but without those games the losses from football surely increase dramatically.  I know.  It's sad.  All we appear to be doing is just decreasing a big loss by playing these games.  But as long as a school can say that they lost...for example...One million from football for a year, instead of Two million, that justifies putting the games on our schedule.  

 

[Blue & Gold]

Great post, Keener (I'm out of likes).

 

I had been tempted, but too lazy, to comprise a list like that for a few years now.  It confirms my suspicion; there are only about 20 schools who have a realistic shot at playing for & winning the NC.

 

Though, for the majority of P5 conference schools playing for the NC is a pipe dream, at least it is within the realm of possibility - no matter how far-fetched.  My issue comes from the perspective of ethics: WMU plays D-1 ball and went undefeated.  Shouldn't that automatically qualify them for inclusion in a playoff?  If not, the system is rubbish and must either be 1) truthfully and simply acknowledged that FCS is more concerned with $$ than fair competition and thus more akin to the WWE than it is to the NFL, or 2) the system must be changed.  I don't ever hear this issue being discussed in the media (because, of course, the media is currently $erved by the $ystem a$-i$).

 

WMU hit the proverbial glass ceiling.  This is an ethics issue.  And a real one at that; this isn't just sports bar talk.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Blue & Gold

[LZIp]

8 team playoff fixes everything. 5 P5 champs get an auto bid, G5 "champ" gets a bid, and two at larges. Everybody wins.

[skip-zip]

Here's where I think the whole thing goes wrong. 

 

You take a team like WMU (or any team that is the best of the G5).  Nobody is going to put them anywhere close enough on a radar at the beginning of the year.  This leaves them playing catch-up all year long with every team of any good caliber in all of the P5 conferences combined, who are all going to be ranked ahead of them.  So, by the time Week 6 or 7 rolls around, and a team like WMU is just maybe cracking the Top-25, it's already too late.  They can't get high enough to matter, unless there was a massive losing streak among everyone at 20 or higher.  Then everyone on that committee has an excuse to ignore them.  

 

Maybe the biggest thing that makes this rigged, vs. basketball, is that a team coming into the picture at mid-season still has 15 more games to make up ground. In football, that's limited to maybe 5 or 6 more games.   

 

This leads us back to something we talk about often on here:  Why do they take the same list of teams every year and put them in the Top 25?  Preseason rankings are what make this happen.  

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by skip-zip

[Blue & Gold]

Preseason rankings arbitrarily stack the deck in favor of Keener's Top 20 (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, the rest of the P5) before the season begins.  The preseason rankings have a ripple effect for season-long strength of schedule arguments.

[LZIp]

You guys are making a little bit of a big deal of preseason rankings I think. The initial CFP rankings, which is used to determine who goes to the playoff, does not come out until week 10. For the most, the initial rankings were within 1 or 2 spots from the AP poll, but there were teams who took considerable jumps like Penn State did.

Edited December 30, 2016 by LZIp

[skip-zip]

7 minutes ago, LZIp said:

You guys are making a little bit of a big deal of preseason rankings I think. The initial CFP rankings, which is used to determine who goes to the playoff, does not come out until week 10.

 

And how much does that almost mirror the other rankings that had been coming out since Preseason?

 

I hope you're not implying that maybe these Committee people would be the ones we could count on to shun the team at #4 in the AP, and replace them with the undefeated team at #25 in the AP.  Not gonna happen.  

Edited December 30, 2016 by skip-zip

[LZIp]

9 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

And how much does that almost mirror the other rankings that had been coming out since Preseason?

 

I hope you're not implying that maybe these Committee people would be the ones we could count on to shun the team at #4 in the AP, and replace them with the undefeated team at #25 in the AP.  Not gonna happen.  

I edited above to show how they mimick rankings. As for what you think I'm implying, thats a large stretch.

[ZachTheZip]

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/12/mac_commissioner_not_intereste.html

[Balsy]

G5 undefeated teams will never be included in the National Championship conversation.  IDK why we keep entertaining this idea?  It.  Will.  Never.  Happen.  Fairness doesn't matter in the world of $$$$$.  All that matters is the bottom line $$$$$.  Ohio State shouldn't (IMHO) even have a seat at the table this year.  They might as well rename the College Football playoff:  Alabama, Ohio State and whatever other random two teams that would make for interesting pre-game headlines.

[skip-zip]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

I edited above to show how they mimick rankings. As for what you think I'm implying, thats a large stretch.

 

I saw your edit.  I just wanted to refute any thought that the CFP people could come in and make everything right in November, after the polls have already determined who's going to be in contention.  I see that your stats analysis shows that they follow basically the same line.

 

The Penn State situation is interesting.  Yes, they made some big surprising jumps out of nowhere.  But, they also had the types of opponents in October and November that allowed that.  The G5 schools aren't playing those kinds of teams in Oct. and Nov.  

Edited December 30, 2016 by skip-zip

[Captain Kangaroo]

If there were a G5 playoff, and the Zips were in it, I'd like it.

[skip-zip]

1 hour ago, Balsy said:

G5 undefeated teams will never be included in the National Championship conversation.  IDK why we keep entertaining this idea?  It.  Will.  Never.  Happen.  Fairness doesn't matter in the world of $$$$$.  All that matters is the bottom line $$$$$.  Ohio State shouldn't (IMHO) even have a seat at the table this year.  They might as well rename the College Football playoff:  Alabama, Ohio State and whatever other random two teams that would make for interesting pre-game headlines.

 

After OSWho lost in late October (to an unranked team at the time), but only dropped a few spots, I told everyone that this was setting the table to make sure that they would be in the playoff.  

[Balsy]

40 minutes ago, skip-zip said:

 

After OSWho lost in late October (to an unranked team at the time), but only dropped a few spots, I told everyone that this was setting the table to make sure that they would be in the playoff.  

 

Oh I completely agree, I did too.  It's a rigged system.

[LZIp]

Was it rigged when OSU lost to Michigan State and didn't make the playoff last year?

[kreed5120]

OSU went 3-1 vs. the top 8 and beat I believe beat 5 top 25 teams. No team in college football had more top 10 or top 25 wins. I get there is a lot of hate in this forum against OSU, but honestly OSU resume was far superior to that of Penn State, Oklahoma, or any of the other teams that were left out.

[ZippyRulz]

The G5 is effectively a separate division from the P5 so why not have its own playoff? The NCAA hoops tourney is not an apt comparison IMO because there is a lot more parity in basketball with the much smaller squads and many schools focusing on bball rather than football.