A Little Love for Lee Owens?

[Captain Kangaroo]

While I'm certainly one of the guys who felt 9 years of Lee Owens was enough, I also think the guy should get some credit where it is due. Our 2007 offensive and defensive 2-deep includes many players from Owens' final recruiting class. Names include:Defense (6)PaceCecchettiCornerDixsonMackeyMcNealOffense (6)ArthurScheppHolleyKasparekWalkerFlaherty (long snapper)

[UA Fan]

Getting credit for recruiting players that make the lineup is one thing but if they lose a lot of games, what's it really worth?

[InTheZone]

Getting credit for recruiting players that make the lineup is one thing but if they lose a lot of games, what's it really worth?

Well.... the team that won the only MAC championship in school history did include a vast majority of his recruits. I've said it once and I'll say it again.... I honestly believe had Lee Owens been given another year with the team we had in 2004 compared to the rest of the MAC we would've won a championship a year earlier. That talented team had a pretty rough transition to JD and his staff that year, and JD almost lost control of the team after that 1-4 start which included three absolute drubbings by a bad Penn State team, Virginia, and NIU, and lost to an awful MTSU team. Lee Owens had nothing in the way of facilities to work with, but he still managed somehow to get some pretty good talent into Akron...AND.... he actually recruited players that ended up on the field. It's impossible to say what might have been had Lee O been given a few more years and had the opportunity to recruit and develop players in the current facilities, but whats done is done.... Lee has a job he loves in Ashland and I THINK.... though I really don't think he's shown it yet.... that we have a great coach in JD.Also....big props to CK for giving Lee O a little love. Never thought I'd see the day! I know many of you were thrilled to see Owens go, and I guess that's understandable in some ways, but its important not to forget what he did give the U.

[UAZipster0305]

I think Owens was a respectable coach. Unfortunately for him, a change in the program by the administration means a change of face at coach, but that's the life of any college coach.I'm glad he has moved on to something he enjoys and I hope he doesn't have any hard feelings towards UA.

[skip-zip]

The "if only Lee Owens had one more year" theory just doesn't register with me.He had 8 "next years" to show that he was making progress. And he wasn't making progress. Those of us that have followed this program long enough know that there were a handful of those years where we thought we might be about to make progress "next year" under Owens' leadership, and it just didn't happen.So, in theory, that gives us no basis on which to presume that 2004 would have been any different. And in terms of the lack of facilities? If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for Gerry Faust. He was the coach who REALLY had no facilities to work with, and was trying to start a brand new D-1A program. We didn't even have a grass field to practice on for road games on natural grass back then, and were holding conditioning workouts in spare classrooms in the back of Rhodes Arena. In comparison, the Owens era saw several improvements, but certainly not what we have today. In response to this thread. Yes, he did bring some good football players to Akron. And sure, we appreciate that some of those players are still here. I'll leave it at that before I get into another long rant about all of the specific areas where Owens failed.

[Big Zip]

Gerry Faust recruited the players Lou Holtz won a National Championship with. Some coaches recruit and some coach -- some can do both.

[UAZipster0305]

Jim Tressel won the National Championship with the John Cooper's recruits.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I really don't know what conclusion you can draw from the Owens guys still competing for UA. You can say a lot of things, I guess. Everything doesn't need to be black/white. There's room for some gray too.You can say that Brookhart must be a decent coach and person if that many guys elected to stick with the program rather than quit or transfer.You can say Owens did a nice job of uncovering hidden talents who have made some undeniably solid contributions to the team. You could say that JD is simply very loyal to guys who've stuck with the program for 3-4 years and rewards them with playing time.The reason I posted the info was, because if you'd have told be 4 years ago that 40% of our 2007 starters would be from Owens' tenure, I'd have laughed. Good for Owens that he recruited some solid contributors...and did so when most everyone knew he had one season left at UA (Thomas wanted him gone a year prior). Good for JD to keep these guys in the fold and molding them into solid D1-A players.In the end, they're not "Owens Zips" or "JD's Zips," they Zips, period.

[johnnyzip84]

I’ve long contended that, if Jake Schifino holds on to a sure 1st down throw from Butchie on 3rd down out pattern not far from mid-field, the Zips might well have won their first MAC championship 5 years earlier.It’s very hard for me to figure why Owens’ teams do not get adequate credit for the balanced, efficient offense that they generally showed, against all levels of competition. It is true that the TEAM never seemed to be able to win the big one, but most if not all of that falls to the defense of those days. So, in the end, Owens’ takes the hit since he was the head of the team. Nevertheless, I’ve always been, and continue to be, impressed by the offensive coaching abilities of guys like Paul Winters and Tom Stacy. You only need to look at how well these guys have done since Akron let them go to find evidence to support me on this.

[Dr Z]

It’s very hard for me to figure why Owens’ teams do not get adequate credit for the balanced, efficient offense that they generally showed, against all levels of competition.

Because we NEVER had a D. There are three parts to the game, and defense is the most important. They even have a saying about it.I was so excited to hear JD when he took over say "we are going to run a D like no team in the MAC has ever seen"I'm giving this D one more year to produce before I start to question it. I'm not impressed thus far by this scheme.Sticking to the topic, I AM somewhat surprised to see so many LO guys contributing, but what is the alternative?The other reason maybe that JD wants to red shirt young guys to get as many of his guys used to the system?But then you take Harvey, and that's out the window.

[Captain Kangaroo]

It is true that the TEAM never seemed to be able to win the big one, but most if not all of that falls to the defense of those days. So, in the end, Owens’ takes the hit since he was the head of the team. Nevertheless, I’ve always been, and continue to be, impressed by the offensive coaching abilities of guys like Paul Winters and Tom Stacy. You only need to look at how well these guys have done since Akron let them go to find evidence to support me on this.

I didn't want to get into the age-old pro/anti Lee Owens debate. But, Owens could never form a defense. Even a bad one. That will be on his epitaph. That's his fault, not that of any coordinator. He hired the coordinators. Several, in fact.Owens hasn't doesn't anything special since he's left Akron. Ditto Winters. Stacey is a successful HS coach.Compare that to JD's staff, who lost Pry to the Big 10, Nori to the 49ers, Alford to Utah, and the DL coach from a few years ago moved to a much better paying job too (I forget where). Verdugo is a head coach somewhere too.

[Ryno aka Menace]

I really don't know what conclusion you can draw from the Owens guys still competing for UA. You can say a lot of things, I guess. Everything doesn't need to be black/white. There's room for some gray too.You can say that Brookhart must be a decent coach and person if that many guys elected to stick with the program rather than quit or transfer.You can say Owens did a nice job of uncovering hidden talents who have made some undeniably solid contributions to the team. You could say that JD is simply very loyal to guys who've stuck with the program for 3-4 years and rewards them with playing time.The reason I posted the info was, because if you'd have told be 4 years ago that 40% of our 2007 starters would be from Owens' tenure, I'd have laughed. Good for Owens that he recruited some solid contributors...and did so when most everyone knew he had one season left at UA (Thomas wanted him gone a year prior). Good for JD to keep these guys in the fold and molding them into solid D1-A players.In the end, they're not "Owens Zips" or "JD's Zips," they Zips, period.

First I wanna say that was right on couldn't of said it better.And secondly how can the program ever reach mid major status with all this shift and replacing of coaches? I think we need to find a guy that really wants to stay here like Keith Drambrot or Toledo's Coach Amstuz (i think). Cause I get the feeling 2 sucessfully seasons out of JD he's gone.

[Dr Z]

Compare that to JD's staff, who lost Pry to the Big 10, Nori to the 49ers, Alford to Utah, and the DL coach from a few years ago moved to a much better paying job too (I forget where). Verdugo is a head coach somewhere too.

Good point. I remember the Bears and Saints. I can't remember the names though.

[FMR]

Compare that to JD's staff, who lost Pry to the Big 10, Nori to the 49ers, Alford to Utah, and the DL coach from a few years ago moved to a much better paying job too (I forget where). Verdugo is a head coach somewhere too.

Matt Wallerstedt (JD's linebacker coach 2 years ago) to the Big 12, Kansas State.

[GP1]

I've always found the argument that Akron did not have a good defense during the Owens years a good argument, if you don't include the fact that in big games, the great offense he had never produced. It always looked good against the Buffalos of the MAC, but almost never against Marshall and Miami when it counted. They moved the ball like crazy between the 20s and stalled out inside the 20s. Zac Derr didn't become the school's all time scoring leader during this period by accident.Probably the best year for the Owens offense was 2000 when Butchie Washington (the most underappreciated Zip of all time) was the QB. In seven of eleven games, all against D1-A teams, the offense scored 28 or more points. They also beat Miami and BG (at BG) when those teams were good. They then amazingly went on to lose their next three home games against a bad UCONN, NIU and a beatable Marshall team. It was like a bad dream but still probably the best year. 2003 also put up a bunch of points, but coming in third in the MAC East was a joke.2000 should have been a springboard for the program, but it just fizzled out the following year with a 4-7 record followed by a 4-8 record in 2002. At that point, the program was dead in the water.

[johnnyzip84]

Owens hasn't doesn't anything special since he's left Akron. Ditto Winters.

I don't think you are giving nearly enough respect for the job that Winters has done since taking over the Wayne St. program. The GLIAC is always one of the top Div 2 conferences in the country, but the Wayne St. program has long been mired at the bottom of this league. Winters has not only turned the program around (GLIAC coach of the year in 2007), but he's done it much earlier than people would have expected. You can hold all the grudges you like against him for his Zip "O" not coming through when it counted, but I will say this. Paul Winters WILL be the HC at a higher profile school soon enough, and I believe he's got a good chance of being successful. Who knows, he may turn up in the MAC someday.Oh and for those of you who might be saying, "what in the world is the GLIAC?", look no further than Brian Kelly's tenure at Grand Valley St. to see the type of football that is played there.

[Big Zip]

It would certainly be interesting to see a guy like JD take us to two bowl games in the next two years -- while Winters make the complete turnaround with Wayne State. JD leaves Akron and Winters returns home. I always like Paul and his offense. I used to tell everyone who would listen during those years if they wanted to be entertained -- Akron games were the place to be. Who could forget the EMU game 65-62 what a barn burner. I know it shouldn't have been that close or that many points scored, but wow if you liked offense that was the place to be that night in 2001. Actually that game might say a lot about Akron football during the Owens years -- except that it ended in a win. Lots of offense and no defense -- home win though.

[skip-zip]

Wow..you guys are bringing up some great stuff here...Let me add to some of this...First of all, I really believe that Owens' downfall started when, for whatever reason, he was not able to work with Brian Magrell, who was looking to be potentially the best quarterback to ever wear an Akron uniform with the way he performed during his freshman year (the year before Owens arrived).Then I think his second big mistake was promising his old buddy Willie Spencer that he would play QB when nobody else in D-1 wanted him for anything other than a DB. And we all know how that turned out.I think these two mistakes really set him back during those first 3-4 years. I can confirm one thing. I've been told by some reliable sources that Thomas did indeed want Owens gone a year before he was actually fired. But apparently, the school did not want to pay for all of those years of contract extensions that Boob-inski was giving to Owens during his "promising" 2-9 and 4-7 seasons.I whole-heartedly agree with some of you that you have to question Owens' ability to get big-time assistants. I remember that one of his first D-Coordinators was David Snowball, who, if I recall, was about 28 years old, and had limited coaching experience at any level. I also recall that he tried to lure Copley's High School coach to be a coordinator. And I remember some assistants coming form placed like Malone College. Not exactly what you want to see when you are trying to reach big-time status as a program. Winters rubbed me the wrong way with some of the comments he would make in post-game interviews. And being stuck at Wayne State for 3 years now is not a glowing endorsement from the college football community of how much your coaching ability is respected. There was a game against Marshall during the Byron Leftwich era in which Marshall had over 700 YARDS of offense against us. That was the ultimate humiliation for me. If I were Owens, I would have stepped down myself after that game rather than face anyone on our campus.Ok..I'm done.

[RACER]

say what you want about winter,s but his teams scored points.you can they never came through in key games,but the fact is the defense did absolutley nothing to help the offense win games either.

[RACER]

gp where do you get the offense did not come through in big games? it was more like the defense did nothing in big games.we beat marshall two times. the offense scored 31 against wisconsin. all i know is the offense for a few years averaged over 30 points a game. jd has not come close to that yet.at the same time our defense under jd is alott better.

[Zips Win!]

I've always found the argument that Akron did not have a good defense during the Owens years a good argument, if you don't include the fact that in big games, the great offense he had never produced. It always looked good against the Buffalos of the MAC, but almost never against Marshall and Miami when it counted. They moved the ball like crazy between the 20s and stalled out inside the 20s. Zac Derr didn't become the school's all time scoring leader during this period by accident.Probably the best year for the Owens offense was 2000 when Butchie Washington (the most underappreciated Zip of all time) was the QB. In seven of eleven games, all against D1-A teams, the offense scored 28 or more points. They also beat Miami and BG (at BG) when those teams were good. They then amazingly went on to lose their next three home games against a bad UCONN, NIU and a beatable Marshall team. It was like a bad dream but still probably the best year. 2003 also put up a bunch of points, but coming in third in the MAC East was a joke.2000 should have been a springboard for the program, but it just fizzled out the following year with a 4-7 record followed by a 4-8 record in 2002. At that point, the program was dead in the water.

I couldn't agree more.....and your best post to date.I will never forget the UCONN game when they completed about 12 passses to the TE on a little curl play.....at no point in the game did we realize what was happening and then stopped the play from being successful.