Is a conference shake-up happening sooner than later?

[ZachTheZip]

Memphis and ECu in "serious" talks with Big EastSo, here's my question: if we received an invitation, would you support Akron leaving the MAC to join C-USA?Without Memphis, it wouldn't really be worth it for basketball, and I can't see a real improvement in the quality of football, but it seems like it would boost our national perception. It seems like you have to belong to the C-USA to make the jump to the BCS, even if the MAC has a better quality. It is all about how the world views you.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Memphis and ECu in "serious" talks with Big EastSo, here's my question: if we received an invitation, would you support Akron leaving the MAC to join C-USA?Without Memphis, it wouldn't really be worth it for basketball, and I can't see a real improvement in the quality of football, but it seems like it would boost our national perception. It seems like you have to belong to the C-USA to make the jump to the BCS, even if the MAC has a better quality. It is all about how the world views you.

I'd be shocked if ECU got in before UCF. ECU is terrible in every aspect of athletics. UCF is rising meteorically.If CUSA lost Memphis, then CUSA should merge with the MAC.

[ziptrumpet87]

Our travel budget would have to be much larger in C-USA than if we could get in BEast. Any chance we would get more bowl $$ to cover that in C-USA?

[johnnyzip84]

I'd be shocked if ECU got in before UCF. ECU is terrible in every aspect of athletics. UCF is rising meteorically.

Althought ECU football has been historically pretty decent, I agree with this sentiment. Another factor is the central Florida TV market is just a wee bit bigger (hear the thick sarcasm) than the Greenville, NC TV market And we know the Big East has been a "market driven" conference from day 1. Plus, UCF gives USF a natural, in-conference rival.

[zipsbandman]

At this point, any way Akron could get out of the MAC I would support. We already know this conference is an abysmal basketball conference. Now, their marquee sport (football) is really going down the crapper. Losing our best bowl opportunity, the GMAC bowl, is going to be devastating. The nation is taking notice on how bad MAC football is and it will take years to get that respect back. Lets face it, CUSA still at least has a better national perception than the MAC. I know we have done nothing to help the cause and hopefully the administration will take action if we don't see improvement from our team.

[zen]

If the MAC is so bad and yet we don't dominate it, why are we so special to leave it?

[ZachTheZip]

If the MAC is so bad and yet we don't dominate it, why are we so special to leave it?

The Cleveland TV market is ripe for the taking. NIU has Chicago's market as an incentive for other conferences, Temple has Philly, and Buffalo has their own city. Other than that, most MAC teams are in the middle of nowhere and thus unnactractive as a "market expansion" team for other conferences.If we moved to a BCS conference (not that that is very likely in the near future), you might see us eventually become Cleveland's college team, severely cutting into OSU's state market dominance.

[Quickzips]

I'd love to get the hell out of MACland, but CUSA isn't the answer. Without Memphis hoops they are in no better spot than us right now. They're a 1 bid basketball league with a bunch of meaningless bowl games in football. They are probably a better Soccer conference, but the travel costs would easily outweigh that and quite frankly we do just fine on our own (which we pretty much are in the MAC anyways). I dunno, I just don't see where CUSA offers us a better opportunity. I don't doubt that we are gonna start looking for another conference soon here. With the amount we are investing in athletics and with the MAC going down the tubes so fast it's actually making that little whistling noise it's inevitable. I just don't see CUSA being any better a choice than the MAC.

[zipsbandman]

If the MAC is so bad and yet we don't dominate it, why are we so special to leave it?

What makes ECU special for the Big East?? Conference USA has REAL bowls in nice weather climates. The MAC is getting further and further north. Conference USA is the answer folks. Just ask Jim Christian. Make it happen Mack.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

The key question: How many teams from the MAC have "graduated" to the Big East vs how many C-USA teams have?Second question: who has better bowl affiliations?Third question: which conference just had the NCAA runner up? Can you even imagine a MAC school getting that close?Really, this is a no brainer.MAC is at best a status quo scenario-- if we had the chance to go C-USA, we go and hope that it puts us in a better position to move up further if teams, attendence, support, etc., warrant it. What would we be saying if Can't made that move: "shit" (and certainly the mens BB program makes a strong case for them).All in all, another reason why we should confederate Akron and Can't somehow. Could we fold the FB teams together but keep other sports separate? A combined Akron-Can't FB program could at least make an argument to the Big East that we have a strong claim on a major media market. Weird idea but why not? It would certainly save money. Maybe we could restructure C-USA to upgrade it with the better MAC programs, or at least better situated programs in terms of media market size?I think it's an opportunity to do something critical which is reframe the competitive set and at least take a step towards competing on a more national level so that the next Big East expansion, we'd be ready with a story, facilities, teams, and hopefully a growing base of fan support sufficient to argue that we could "own" the media market.

[Lee Adams]

Memphis and ECu in "serious" talks with Big EastSo, here's my question: if we received an invitation, would you support Akron leaving the MAC to join C-USA?Without Memphis, it wouldn't really be worth it for basketball, and I can't see a real improvement in the quality of football, but it seems like it would boost our national perception. It seems like you have to belong to the C-USA to make the jump to the BCS, even if the MAC has a better quality. It is all about how the world views you.

why would C-USA want Akron for anything but MAYBE BasketBall?

[Quickzips]

The key question: How many teams from the MAC have "graduated" to the Big East vs how many C-USA teams have?Second question: who has better bowl affiliations?Third question: which conference just had the NCAA runner up? Can you even imagine a MAC school getting that close?Really, this is a no brainer.MAC is at best a status quo scenario-- if we had the chance to go C-USA, we go and hope that it puts us in a better position to move up further if teams, attendence, support, etc., warrant it. What would we be saying if Can't made that move: "shit" (and certainly the mens BB program makes a strong case for them).All in all, another reason why we should confederate Akron and Can't somehow. Could we fold the FB teams together but keep other sports separate? A combined Akron-Can't FB program could at least make an argument to the Big East that we have a strong claim on a major media market. Weird idea but why not? It would certainly save money. Maybe we could restructure C-USA to upgrade it with the better MAC programs, or at least better situated programs in terms of media market size?I think it's an opportunity to do something critical which is reframe the competitive set and at least take a step towards competing on a more national level so that the next Big East expansion, we'd be ready with a story, facilities, teams, and hopefully a growing base of fan support sufficient to argue that we could "own" the media market.

It's important to note that we would be considered a replacement for that runner up in basketball who would be leaving for the Big East. A move like this would add no real benefit to basketball at all. Without Memphis CUSA is no different than the MAC. A 1-bid league that can only hope that once in a while they get lucky and that one bid wins a game or two. I'd have no problem with Can't making that move. It doesn't benefit Can't the same way it doesn't benefit us. It's a HUGE increase in travel expenses and all it adds is a couple more midling bowl affiliations. Sure they are in a little better weather area, but how exactly is that a benefit for us? Are the Liberty Bowl, the Texas Bowl, the Hawaii Bowl, the New Orleans Bowl or the Papajohns.com Bowl really any more prestigious than the GMAC Bowl, International Bowl or Motor City Bowl? Is it any more likely that our fanbase will show up at those bowls than the ones we are already affiliated with? Heck, will our football team even be competitive enough to make those bowls? The only thing it possibly adds is the opportunity to move up to the Big East if you can make a good showing in CUSA, but you have to wonder how many more teams the Big East will be looking to add after Memphis and ECU. I just don't see where it makes sense.

[a-zip]

Where does anyone get the idea that we are a desirable athletic program (TODAY) to another conference - except for soccer? Attendance?Fan Base?Conference Championships?Big City Market?The athletic dept. was just penalized by the NCAAHow could we possibly make a case?Coach D and the Bball program are looking REALLY STRONG - Zeke is going to help us elevate even furtherThe new stadium on campus will be nice but will the novelty wear off? - heck even if we filled it to 30K........yawnI am optimistic about our future, Landscape for Learning is impressive, it is truly a pretty college campus BUT we have a long way to go IMHO.Here is a better question.......If you ranked the MAC schools - honestly, which one do you think would be the most desirable today(unbiased).

[Ryno aka Menace]

Hence the reason for my post in another thread...I know I will probably get flamed for this but sometimes I tihnk being in the MAC is just bad all the way around. They have in my opinion been a mediocre to poor conference since Akron joined. A way to even it up is for us to leave. I know we have had this discussion before but I think I would try the approach of going independent for say 5-6 years and schedule nothing but midmajors and bcs cupcakes toA. Build a winning programB. Go bowling every year Until we do A and B we will not look attractive to another conference I don't care about potential market cause all that means is more people will see the loss instead of the few thousand that show up to the game.

[Zip Watcher]

Put me squarely in Ryno's camp on this one. Our current conference situation is not ideal.I'm surprised at the amount of "we have nothing to offer" posting here. At first, I thought about ignoring it, but I think it should be addressed:1. We're in a significant population area with a large TV market. From its conception, this has been a significant factor in all Big East expansions / membership decisions.2. Our facilities are approaching the levels of some BCS schools, let alone C-USA. The baskeball arena would stand as the only big deficit in this regard, but concepts are already floating on a solution to that problem.2a. The Big East HOSTS THEIR INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONSHIPS on UA's campus, in a UA facility. NOW.3. We have teams that would compete for championships in year 1. Men's soccer could probably win any of these leagues.4. Men's hoops would be competitive right out of the gate.5. UA is a good sized school with Engineering and Law Colleges among the best in the nation. I did type that. Not a typo.Let's not concentrate on how bad the troughs look at the Rubber Bowl, and instead on the reality that is the U today.Aside from speculation about C-USA, my first thought when reading the first link was:I sure hope Mack is on the horn calling every AD in the Big East to explain the above. He doesn't need to sell them on UA over Memphis .. he's got to sell them on UA over ECU. I know nothing about ECU, but isn't that a fair fight?Go Zips! Go Trevor.

[scottditzen]

I am really getting into the MAC Champioships at the Q. Each year you see more media, more attention, it's becoming a must see event. And I like the rivalries here, it's fun to hate on Miami, OU and especially Can't....in fact our rivalry with Can't is awesome, and could we carry on this great rivalry if we leave the MAC?To me a realistic, best case scenario is not for us to leave the MAC, but to see the conference improve as a whole. LIke to see the Chryst's leadership making more strides in that direction.

[g-mann17]

Put me squarely in Ryno's camp on this one. Our current conference situation is not ideal.I'm surprised at the amount of "we have nothing to offer" posting here. At first, I thought about ignoring it, but I think it should be addressed:1. We're in a significant population area with a large TV market. From its conception, this has been a significant factor in all Big East expansions / membership decisions.2. Our facilities are approaching the levels of some BCS schools, let alone C-USA. The baskeball arena would stand as the only big deficit in this regard, but concepts are already floating on a solution to that problem.2a. The Big East HOSTS THEIR INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONSHIPS on UA's campus, in a UA facility. NOW.3. We have teams that would compete for championships in year 1. Men's soccer could probably win any of these leagues.4. Men's hoops would be competitive right out of the gate.5. UA is a good sized school with Engineering and Law Colleges among the best in the nation. I did type that. Not a typo.Let's not concentrate on how bad the troughs look at the Rubber Bowl, and instead on the reality that is the U today.Aside from speculation about C-USA, my first thought when reading the first link was:I sure hope Mack is on the horn calling every AD in the Big East to explain the above. He doesn't need to sell them on UA over Memphis .. he's got to sell them on UA over ECU. I know nothing about ECU, but isn't that a fair fight?Go Zips! Go Trevor.

I whole heartedly agree with this. We already have huge ties to the Big East to begin with. Beside hosting events, we take part in the Big East/MAC golf challenge, the majority of our shooting, swimming/diving, and soccer events include the Big East. We are desirable television market and school willing to invest in athletics. Also not only isn't it a sell us vs Memphis situation, it doesn't even have to be a sell us vs. ECU situation. I believe that all of the BCS conferences (including the Big 10) are looking at moving toward a 12 team conference for Conference Championship Game reasons (which is mostly for increased television revenue). So the Big East is likely to need 4 teams in the near future. They also know we have natural regional rivalries with Pitt and Cinci. So Mack just has to sell us as 1 team for 4 potential openings (Memphis, UCF, ECU, Akron)

[LosAngelesZipFan]

I don't think being independent is a viable option at all-- we would lose KD immediately since it would eliminate any chance of getting to the NCAA (this was a HUGE factor in Huggins leaving-- I personally talked with him about it).I don't think travel costs should be the gating factor here-- seems like an irrelevant criteria in the grand scheme of things.It's self-evident-- the Big East has raided the Big East twice now and shown no interest in any MAC schools. C-USA must do something right, even if it is purely perception. Yes, C-USA would lose something in the near term without Memphis, but the fact it a C-USA team was the frickin runner up in the NCAA this year, a nearly inconceivable scenario for the MAC. That group of teams was sufficiently competitive to support Memphis' riseI was against going in the MAC because it always felt like we would just get stuck there, not really growing or moving forward. It's a comfortable group of peer institutions-- and yes, it would be ideal if we were a dominating presence in MBB or FB before we moved on, but by that logic we would need to wait on the new stadium until the team and attendence fully supported it. Vision needs to lead these decisions-- sometimes you need to make a bold move to secure a step change in your situation. If we had the opportunity, we should take it.

[LosAngelesZipFan]

Sorry to reply to myself but one last point-- the Big East is where we would really like to find ourselves in 10 years. What do we need to do to accomplish that? We won't get there from the MAC, but history demonstrates we could get there from C-USA.We should be disproportionately scheduling Big East schools in all sports, particularly the natural rivalries of Cinci and Pitt but also 'cuse and WVU. We should be finding other ways to work with those schools (research? exchange programs? global things?). We are clearly not ready yet, not sufficiently fan-supported in particular. But it is certainly within the realm of possibility for us to get there. The immediate next step is extricating ourselves from the MAC as soon as a viable alternative is available.

[zipsbandman]

UCF is the model example. They had a garbage team when they competed in the MAC. They were the butt of our jokes, but now here we are looking up at them. They built a new stadium and a new arena. They drew close to 50k when they HOSTED Texas. They had a vision, and they have a great chance to play in the BCS, and they already have 3 other big fish in that state. In order for any of this to be possible, we must get out of the MAC. Playing in the MAC kills our fan support. Look at Miami and look at all their championships. They draw flies in this conference. It is really hard to go to basketball games when the only games that really matter are the three played in Cleveland. The level of competition in football has gotten bad, and the days and times they make us play our home games are terrible. A BCS bowl is really a pipe dream.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I don't think we're ready for the Big East, but if a Big East affiliation did, by some freak act of God happen, the following would occur:I think basketball would struggle. I'll reference Gary Waters. The guy is a great, great coach. He put K.e.n.t. basketball on the map, and he got CSU 20 wins in only his second season. He had 6 years at Rutgers and couldn't do better than a couple NIT's. Big East basketball goes 7 bids deep in the NCAA's with regularity, but finishing 7th in the Big East is a lot tougher than winning the MAC. Jim Boeheim has missed the last two NCAA tourneys, and Syracuse is a tremendously storied program only a couple years removed from a national championship. Big East hoops is a B-I-T-C-H.That said, I'm hoping a few of the BE schools get frustrated with the BE gauntlet and decide to create their own conference. Maybe pull in Xavier, UMass and a few other Top-tier A-10 teams too. Such a conference would be very appealing to the Zips...but who knows if it will ever develop.Would the BE take the Zips because of the media market? Doubtful. I think they know this is Big 10 country. And, they all recruit Ohio pretty well as-is (a primary reason S FLA is BE is because BE schools can promise a Florida HS kid he'll play in his home state at least two times in his career). Northern BE schools also don't mind the trip to Florida in November. Akron's not so appealing.Football, initially, would really struggle. We'd be the next "Temple." But I think recruiting would ultimately improve to the point where we'd be competitive. I think a lot of local "stars" would play for the Zips if their schedule included Pitt, WVa, Cinci, Syracuse, etc. Presently, those kids go to Minnesota, Pitt, etc.If you worried about selling out the stadium and the JAR, that's where a BE affiliation would be a coup. Replace EMU/CMU/Ball State/WMU/Toledo with Marquette, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, etc and people are beating down the doors for tickets. We'd need to play our games in Cleveland until we got a new arena.Football would sell out. You'd get a minimum 10k opposing fans for the Pitt, Cinci and WVa games at the new stadium. Assuming that many tickets were available. The expansion of the stadium to 45k would be on the fast track. Our athletic programs would make money.Could we compete? It would be damn difficult...right now. If we could go C-USA first...it would be a good stepping stone. But CUSA is a constantly evolving conference. We could go CUSA tomorrow, and UCF and Memphis could bolt to the BE the very next day. Then we're stuck with a big sack of crap.That's why Mack gets paid the big bucks...to figure stuff like this out. Hopefully whatever vision he has for the state of NCAA football and basketball over the next 5-10 years is correct. A conference move for the Zips could be a bonanza...or it could blow up in our face.

[Quickzips]

Just kind of off the wall thinking here. IIRC there's been a lot of talk about the Big East completely realigning with some of the basketball only schools breaking off from the football/basketball schools. I wonder if you wouldn't eventually see something like that happening with the football/basketball schools (Pitt, Cincy, Louisville, Connecticut, Rutgers, USF, Syracuse and West Virginia) splitting off and adding 4 more schools from elsewhere (maybe Akron, Memphis, UCF and ECU?) to make a 12 team conference. Then the basketball only schools (DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Notre Dame, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Villanova) would split off and add maybe 2 more schools (Xavier and UMass come to mind right away) to make a 10 team basketball powerhouse conference.

[johnnyzip84]

Just kind of off the wall thinking here. IIRC there's been a lot of talk about the Big East completely realigning with some of the basketball only schools breaking off from the football/basketball schools. I wonder if you wouldn't eventually see something like that happening with the football/basketball schools (Pitt, Cincy, Louisville, Connecticut, Rutgers, USF, Syracuse and West Virginia) splitting off and adding 4 more schools from elsewhere (maybe Akron, Memphis, UCF and ECU?) to make a 12 team conference. Then the basketball only schools (DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Notre Dame, Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Villanova) would split off and add maybe 2 more schools (Xavier and UMass come to mind right away) to make a 10 team basketball powerhouse conference.

Interesting possiblility. But I think UMass will eventually follow UConn and move up to 1-A or BCS or whatever fairly soon. I also would not count out Toledo in any of these discussions. A previous post posed the question which MAC school is the most appealing to other conferences, and in spite of a few down years I think that is still Toledo. This may change quickly with the way things are going here at UA however.

[GP1]

Akron is exactly where it should be right now. With the exception of soccer, the Zips would struggle in every other sport in the BE. We would do OK in basketball in C-USA, but we are really on the cusp of doing some great things in basketball now and going to just OK doesn't cut it for me.When I read that the Zips should get out of the MAC because it stinks, I always think to myself, "Ya, and we are one of the teams causing the stink along with the rest of the league." This argument is like people complaining about the government and forgetting we are the people who put those idiots in office.How has the "upgrade" to C-USA worked for Marshall? Last I checked, they were struggling mightily in C-USA. Moving to C-USA is not a stepping stone to anything. This line of thinking is the same line of thinking that results in MAC schools continually "building" for the future. With the exception of a nationally recognized soccer program, UofA is not on the radar with any other sport. Before we discuss a move "up", we need to do something in the horrible conference we are currently situated in. After we do something meaningful, then we can look to move.What the MAC should really be looking to do is move down to 1-AA for football if the NCAA is not willing to create a super conference with about four or five conferences. Would it hurt national recognition? I don't think so. Is App State more nationally recognized than UofA or any other MAC school? I would think so.The conference jumping debate is always a fun one to have and I go around and around about it in my head. In reality, we are where we should be until we accomplish something meaningful in a sport other than soccer.Have a good weekend everyone.

[zen]

That's the part I don't get either GP1.All the talk of the big east sounds exciting, but if the MAC is so bad, why aren't we owning it?