All about greed with the Nemers

[g-mann17]

What amazes me is how often I see people in politics and life always finding sooooo many rationalizations to legitimzie their viewpoint... but the viewpoint always stands. It's the core.Taxes blah blah blah.I guarantee you that if Akron (or the State or whoever) was using eminent domain to put a highway straight through the middle of campus, eminent domain would be evil, and all different types of rationalizations would be used to legitimize that viewpoint.Can we be honest here. We want a football stadium. We root for it like fans and we take it personal that the university has to payout to property owners. It is what it is. I honestly would have taken any offer from the university that was significantly higher than market value, but that's just me. You have the right to fight it, and they won. Sux to be us.

Let's be honest..LOL then be real honest and realize that the state isn't going to put a highway through a striving state owned university. If you are going to make comparisons then make accurate comparison's. But to say we rationalize because we are fans, when most of the rationalizations I have seen, offered double market value from the get go, offered help to acquire property new the university prior to the eminent domain. Then we suddenly see that a jury decides something the state (the jury itself, and everyone else) is going to buy is worth 2.7 million?No sorry, that's not justice, it's just stupidity.

[Zip Watcher]

Who's setting the odds on how quickly the Nemer brothers are retired once this whole thing is settled?

[apalmison]

A few thoughts:1) NONE of us would have been on the jury "Do you have any affiliation with the University?" "Yes, I'm an alum." <Buzzer sounds> "Next!"2) Assessed value and FMV are always different, sometimes markedly different. I'm not sure about this but if I remember correctly the assessed value is inadmissible - the jury can't even consider it.3) All that is required in a takings case is for the U of A to pay the fair market value. Cost of moving, loss of business, etc. are all consequential damages and are not available in a takings clause case. Punitive damages are also disallowed. If we were talking about a torts of contract case then they could get more than FMV but a taking is essentially a civil rights case.4) An appeal on the amount awarded would be very difficult. A jury's findings are given very high deference on appeal.We win some we lose some. I thought the U of A bargained fairly and it looked out of whack to me but I wasn't privy to everything the jury was. At least its over.

[bigham78]

A few thoughts:1) NONE of us would have been on the jury "Do you have any affiliation with the University?" "Yes, I'm an alum." <Buzzer sounds> "Next!"2) Assessed value and FMV are always different, sometimes markedly different. I'm not sure about this but if I remember correctly the assessed value is inadmissible - the jury can't even consider it.3) All that is required in a takings case is for the U of A to pay the fair market value. Cost of moving, loss of business, etc. are all consequential damages and are not available in a takings clause case. Punitive damages are also disallowed. If we were talking about a torts of contract case then they could get more than FMV but a taking is essentially a civil rights case.4) An appeal on the amount awarded would be very difficult. A jury's findings are given very high deference on appeal.We win some we lose some. I thought the U of A bargained fairly and it looked out of whack to me but I wasn't privy to everything the jury was. At least its over.

The appraisals that U0fA used and current assessed Tax value are very much admissible in court. The jury gets to see what UofA based their offer on and then the defendants plead on why FMV and other costs are what should be considered. Joe Nemer couldn't just walk in there and say I want 3 mil without some data to back it up. UofA can't say we offered 1.036 mil without some documents as to how they came to that number. The odds are stacked against UofA on appeal unless they can prove the jury erred in their findings. I still say the key is 1,005,168.00 for that property known as 437 East Exchange Street a parking lot shared by the businesses. I would love to see why the jury felt a parking lot was worth almost 10 times its current assessed value. I could be wrong. But, IMO that where UofA appeal has a glimmer of hope if they file one.

[ZippyRulz]

Who's setting the odds on how quickly the Nemer brothers are retired once this whole thing is settled?

They may not have a choice if this ruling holds up. UA won't have any more incentive to work with Nemers on a relocation; on the contrary, UA would likely outbid them on any nearby property they tried to buy. God forbid if Nemers would acquire any other nearby properties that UA might need for future growth and have to go through this again with them. Of course they could relocate somewhere away from the university if they still want to operate a business.

[Kiel Fleming]

Who's setting the odds on how quickly the Nemer brothers are retired once this whole thing is settled?

They may not have a choice if this ruling holds up. UA won't have any more incentive to work with Nemers on a relocation; on the contrary, UA would likely outbid them on any nearby property they tried to buy. God forbid if Nemers would acquire any other nearby properties that UA might need for future growth and have to go through this again with them. Of course they could relocate somewhere away from the university if they still want to operate a business.

How about they relocate to Can't, they'll fit right in with the garbage.

[Lee Adams]

Being somewhat sympathtic, these guys had well-established businesses get uprooted. I'm not sure how you put a dollar value on that, but I think their loss should be compensated.I know...some of you younger folks are thinking about how this affects tuition (I was there once). But, they should be compensated for their loss, if the U really wants these parcels (and they do).

I'm in this camp, but if I was on the jury, I would have recommended no more than 50% above market appraisal or 50% above cost to locate the business to a spot of equal or better business opportunity, not 3mill.In other words, you don't just say "Here's what your land is worth, now take a hike!" just because you got the government involved. Okay, I can't give my neighbor the appraised property value and then kick them out. My neighbor has rights. People need to be compensated above what your appraise their property for, for a variety of reasons.1) They have to move. There are many expenses involved.2) They have to move. It puts them out of business for a time.3) They have to move. The new property could cost more than what their existing one is appraised for.4) They have to move. Their new property may not even be as advantageous to their business as the old one.5) They actually owned that property. Hello, McFly. I know that there are limitations to ownership rights, but you can't just bump people because you want to.The point is that THEY HAVE TO MOVE, and they should be compensated for the fact that THEY HAVE TO MOVE, not just for the value of the property that you are TAKING away from them.But I also think that there should be some (nothing major) degree of punitive effect, not just compensatory. I think giving them 3Mill is overboard, but I don't think they should have just been given street value either.

this is at least a somewhat objective post...look youngins' in 1970 when i matriculated at HILLTOP HIGH as it was called then...the city was more than happy to have dives on Exchange...the area was a real rathole then...i sat in the bar that would become Lil' Niks and watched someone ride their motorcycle in the front door and park it inside...the point being any business was better than no business as far as the city forefathers were concerned...they paid taxes...the Sun has been there forever...paying something to the city... i hope they get this thing settled...i have paid for my season tickets to the new digs already...but this is AMERICA...the almighty dollar and all that!

[Zip_ME87]

What amazes me is how often I see people in politics and life always finding sooooo many rationalizations to legitimzie their viewpoint... but the viewpoint always stands. It's the core.Taxes blah blah blah.I guarantee you that if Akron (or the State or whoever) was using eminent domain to put a highway straight through the middle of campus, eminent domain would be evil, and all different types of rationalizations would be used to legitimize that viewpoint.Can we be honest here. We want a football stadium. We root for it like fans and we take it personal that the university has to payout to property owners. It is what it is. I honestly would have taken any offer from the university that was significantly higher than market value, but that's just me. You have the right to fight it, and they won. Sux to be us.

I'll be honest...kiss my @ss with your "holy-er than thou" attitude. Yes, they won because there are so many STUPID people out there willing to give someone $1M for a parking lot or spilling hot coffee in there own lap.

[ZachTheZip]

No wonder UA lost if no UA grads could be allowed on the jury due to having an affiliation with with the U. That only leaves the topix.net trolls and Can't grads as far as I am concerned.

[zen]

What amazes me is how often I see people in politics and life always finding sooooo many rationalizations to legitimzie their viewpoint... but the viewpoint always stands. It's the core.Taxes blah blah blah.I guarantee you that if Akron (or the State or whoever) was using eminent domain to put a highway straight through the middle of campus, eminent domain would be evil, and all different types of rationalizations would be used to legitimize that viewpoint.Can we be honest here. We want a football stadium. We root for it like fans and we take it personal that the university has to payout to property owners. It is what it is. I honestly would have taken any offer from the university that was significantly higher than market value, but that's just me. You have the right to fight it, and they won. Sux to be us.

I'll be honest...kiss my @ss with your "holy-er than thou" attitude. Yes, they won because there are so many STUPID people out there willing to give someone $1M for a parking lot or spilling hot coffee in there own lap.

okay, you disagree with me and it pisses you off, and since I didn't insult anyone, you have to claim I have a "holier than thou" attitude. Just like the topic, above, I think you need to get over it.

[zippyrifle32]

Yes, they won because there are so many STUPID people out there willing to give someone $1M for a parking lot or spilling hot coffee in there own lap.

the nemers own a coffee shop... care to take one for the team and recoup the money?

[Zip_ME87]

What amazes me is how often I see people in politics and life always finding sooooo many rationalizations to legitimzie their viewpoint... but the viewpoint always stands. It's the core.Taxes blah blah blah.I guarantee you that if Akron (or the State or whoever) was using eminent domain to put a highway straight through the middle of campus, eminent domain would be evil, and all different types of rationalizations would be used to legitimize that viewpoint.Can we be honest here. We want a football stadium. We root for it like fans and we take it personal that the university has to payout to property owners. It is what it is. I honestly would have taken any offer from the university that was significantly higher than market value, but that's just me. You have the right to fight it, and they won. Sux to be us.

I'll be honest...kiss my @ss with your "holy-er than thou" attitude. Yes, they won because there are so many STUPID people out there willing to give someone $1M for a parking lot or spilling hot coffee in there own lap.

okay, you disagree with me and it pisses you off, and since I didn't insult anyone, you have to claim I have a "holier than thou" attitude. Just like the topic, above, I think you need to get over it.

Our disagreement didn't piss me off. The snide way you put it did! The end.

[zen]

Our disagreement didn't piss me off. The snide way you put it did! The end.

[/The end]I know you better than you know yourself. lolYou just don't like it when someone disagrees with your position and sounds valid doing it.Yes, you asked for snide, now your getting it.[The end /]

[g-mann17]

Our disagreement didn't piss me off. The snide way you put it did! The end.

[/The end]I know you better than you know yourself. lolYou just don't like it when someone disagrees with your position and sounds valid doing it.Yes, you asked for snide, now your getting it.[The end /]

Zen, nothing you ever say sounds valid. But you are right, we need to get over it, it sucks that the University got hosed on this, and we will probably get hosed on the Manny properties too. The fact is, when all is said and done the campus will be improved. Five years from now, no one is going to remember how much was paid except for a few people that had passionate view points and accountants.

[Zip_ME87]

Our disagreement didn't piss me off. The snide way you put it did! The end.

[/The end]I know you better than you know yourself. lolYou just don't like it when someone disagrees with your position and sounds valid doing it.Yes, you asked for snide, now your getting it.[The end /]

You're wrong. I think this is the first time I posted a response such as I did. With me it's not so much that the settlement was against UA for such a large amount as it is there are so many, including you, who think "let's stick it to the government or the big university" or "the government has to take care of me". WE are the government. And being selected as a juror brings a huge responsibility to be impartial and fair to all parties. No way is $1M for a parking lot fair.

[bigham78]

Our disagreement didn't piss me off. The snide way you put it did! The end.

[/The end]I know you better than you know yourself. lolYou just don't like it when someone disagrees with your position and sounds valid doing it.Yes, you asked for snide, now your getting it.[The end /]

You're wrong. I think this is the first time I posted a response such as I did. With me it's not so much that the settlement was against UA for such a large amount as it is there are so many, including you, who think "let's stick it to the government or the big university" or "the government has to take care of me". WE are the government. And being selected as a juror brings a huge responsibility to be impartial and fair to all parties. No way is $1M for a parking lot fair.

That's my whole problem with the judgment. $1M for a 50 space parking lot. :blink: That comes to 20,000 per space. If, UofA appeals. I hope that's where they find this jury erred big time. Plus I'm having a hard time believing they're going to set up shop elsewhere. If, UofA doesn't appeal. They'll have all of 45-60 days tops from judgment day to move and hand over the property to UofA. The article in the ABJ today says they haven't even looked for new location. They knew this was coming for year now and haven't been looking, tells me they may just take the money and run.

[GP1]

Build the stadium...let the properties sit there...and let Nemer pay taxes on 3million dollars for a few years.So much for the stadium being under budget.

Good point and I've been saying this all along. Instead of farting around with this guy, they should have just built the stadium around his property. In time, the property value would have bankrupted the guy in taxes, or the steady devaluation of the property would have decreased to below the "fair market value" UofA offered at around $1 million. This guy is looking to retire. The only real use for that building after the stadium is built is what it is now, which never could support the property taxes, or a bar. The city could zone that property so a liquor license would never be issued for the property. Nobody in their right mind would buy that piece of crap for $1 million. In time, UofA could have gotten this building at a real bargain. Not enough patience. I really don't think that anyone going to a game would every say, "I'm never going to another UofA football game because they have that head shop on the corner." UofA could have waited a couple of years and then taken the property.

[Captain Kangaroo]

That's my whole problem with the judgment. $1M for a 50 space parking lot. eek.gif That comes to $20,000 per space.

Too bad Pat "Parking Genius" Krieger wasn't still around. He would have simply charged the fans $20,000 for each spot and paid the Nemer's off in a matter of minutes.

[bigham78]

Build the stadium...let the properties sit there...and let Nemer pay taxes on 3million dollars for a few years.So much for the stadium being under budget.

Good point and I've been saying this all along. Instead of farting around with this guy, they should have just built the stadium around his property. In time, the property value would have bankrupted the guy in taxes, or the steady devaluation of the property would have decreased to below the "fair market value" UofA offered at around $1 million. This guy is looking to retire. The only real use for that building after the stadium is built is what it is now, which never could support the property taxes, or a bar. The city could zone that property so a liquor license would never be issued for the property. Nobody in their right mind would buy that piece of crap for $1 million. In time, UofA could have gotten this building at a real bargain. Not enough patience. I really don't think that anyone going to a game would every say, "I'm never going to another UofA football game because they have that head shop on the corner." UofA could have waited a couple of years and then taken the property.

The Odd corner was in the way of the stadium and had to go. The Nemers property sits where the dorms are going up and not on the stadium footprint. UofA could have built the stadium and not needed the Nemers property. But, since the sell of this to get bond dollars was multi-purpose project. They included the dorms. But, you're right. If, UofA could wait a little longer on the dorms. Those businesses are dying a slow death. Despite some knucklehead comments to me in Rasor blog. I was just there and over the Memorial Day holiday and only bums and assorted derelicts are going to those bars. They we're not even open most of Memorial Day weekend.

[GP1]

Build the stadium...let the properties sit there...and let Nemer pay taxes on 3million dollars for a few years.So much for the stadium being under budget.

Good point and I've been saying this all along. Instead of farting around with this guy, they should have just built the stadium around his property. In time, the property value would have bankrupted the guy in taxes, or the steady devaluation of the property would have decreased to below the "fair market value" UofA offered at around $1 million. This guy is looking to retire. The only real use for that building after the stadium is built is what it is now, which never could support the property taxes, or a bar. The city could zone that property so a liquor license would never be issued for the property. Nobody in their right mind would buy that piece of crap for $1 million. In time, UofA could have gotten this building at a real bargain. Not enough patience. I really don't think that anyone going to a game would every say, "I'm never going to another UofA football game because they have that head shop on the corner." UofA could have waited a couple of years and then taken the property.

The Odd corner was in the way of the stadium and had to go. The Nemers property sits where the dorms are going up and not on the stadium footprint. UofA could have built the stadium and not needed the Nemers property. But, since the sell of this to get bond dollars was multi-purpose project. They included the dorms. But, you're right. If, UofA could wait a little longer on the dorms. Those businesses are dying a slow death. Despite some knucklehead comments to me in Rasor blog. I was just there and over the Memorial Day holiday and only bums and assorted derelicts are going to those bars. They we're not even open most of Memorial Day weekend.

Good points.Don't worry too much about Rasors comments. Aside from the undertones of the man crush he had on Mike Waddell and trying to impress everyone with the fact that he is in law school (If law school is so hard, why are there so many lawyers?), he is nothing more than a fan of the program with a blog on a newspaper web page. I wouldn't take it too seriously. At least he cares enough to blog.Also, thanks for the correction. I thought this Nemers group owned the head shop on the corner.

[zen]

Don't worry too much about Rasors comments. Aside from the undertones of the man crush he had on Mike Waddell and trying to impress everyone with the fact that he is in law school (If law school is so hard, why are there so many lawyers?), he is nothing more than a fan of the program with a blog on a newspaper web page. I wouldn't take it too seriously. At least he cares enough to blog.

really not necessary

[bigham78]

The Odd corner was in the way of the stadium and had to go. The Nemers property sits where the dorms are going up and not on the stadium footprint. UofA could have built the stadium and not needed the Nemers property. But, since the sell of this to get bond dollars was multi-purpose project. They included the dorms. But, you're right. If, UofA could wait a little longer on the dorms. Those businesses are dying a slow death. Despite some knucklehead comments to me in Rasor blog. I was just there and over the Memorial Day holiday and only bums and assorted derelicts are going to those bars. They we're not even open most of Memorial Day weekend.

Good points.Don't worry too much about Rasors comments. Aside from the undertones of the man crush he had on Mike Waddell and trying to impress everyone with the fact that he is in law school (If law school is so hard, why are there so many lawyers?), he is nothing more than a fan of the program with a blog on a newspaper web page. I wouldn't take it too seriously. At least he cares enough to blog.Also, thanks for the correction. I thought this Nemers group owned the head shop on the corner.

The comments didn't come from Rasor. They came from some knucklehead claiming to be member of Nemer family who accused me of lying and not knowing what I was talking about and claiming I'd never even been to Akron, OH. I've called said knucklehead out in the blog and await their response. I'm sure with the limited data I posted about Zip strip and what it looked like over the recent Memorial Day weekend. I believe that idiot is thinking twice about messing with me further. I forgotten more about the area then said knucklehead will ever know. Manny Pub, Aroma tea, Choptix and the Sun Grille are all toilets and that would be an insult to a decent toilet.