Dave in Green

Back on the topic of this thread -- a team the Zips will be playing this season -- CBS Sports has more on the subject of tOSU being warned several times over the years about problems they apparently failed to deal with. The article reaches a damning conclusion: So you'll begin to notice an alarming trend taking place at Ohio State under Jim Tressel. Tressel would be alerted about potential problems with his players and then do nothing about it. Despite the concerns about Talbott expressed to the school, that didn't stop Ohio State from allowing Talbott to work as a credentialed photographer at home games in 2009. Obviously, on the surface, Terrelle Pryor playing golf with somebody isn't anything to be alarmed about. But when that person is somebody you've already been warned about in the past when it comes to his relationship with Ohio State players, the fact that Ohio State wouldn't address the issue is mind-boggling. Report: OSU warned about Talbott in 2007 Meanwhile, good news for the one or two ZN.O forum members who still want to believe that this isn't such a big deal: tOSU President E. Gordon Gee told the institution's largest graduating class that a scandal in its celebrated football program is "but a temporary condition." Ohio St.'s Gee says football scandal is 'temporary'

tOSU apparently had many warnings over the years about Pryor: Sources: Ohio State was warned

GP1, I agree. The current system is broken. All systems are broken because they're all flawed. They're all run by people and all people are flawed in one way or another. If we want a better system than we have today, we need to find one with fewer flaws -- a less broken system, so to speak. Correcting one flaw in the current system may create two or three new and worse ones. Have you really thought this all the way out? It sounds to me as if all of your arguments are based on me, me, me. What's my share? What do I get out of it? I want more and I want it now. Eliminate rules and there won't be any rules breaking. What's the ultimate result of all that? Giving more money to cheaters does not necessarily reduce cheating. Human nature being what it is, the more money you get the more you want. Give college football players enough cash and they'll all have high-buck attorneys working on how to weasel more money out of the system. How about college football player strikes and lockouts? How is all that football income brought in by colleges and the NCAA currently used? Is it primarily used for productive purposes or blown on frivolous excesses? Under your proposed system, would the wealthy players and their wealthier attorneys make more productive use of that money to the benefit of colleges, students and student athletes in general? Or would it just give more to the self-centered prima donnas while damaging everyone and everything else in the system? These are some of the questions that would have to be answered for me before I'd buy into the concept that the world would be a better place if only modestly paid college athletes were extravagantly paid.

What if the rules are unjust to the point of being immoral? There are many injustices in the world that rise to the level of immorality. Getting a bigger cut of the loot for pampered college student athletes is near the bottom of the priorities list. But, to answer your question, there are three choices as it relates to "unjust" rules against college student football players taking home more loot: 1. Accept the rules as part of the total equation that "life's not fair," move on with your life and find a way to legally get your share of life's loot within the current system. 2. Break the rules, pocket the cheater's loot and accept the consequences if you get caught. 3. Change the system by convincing the public and the courts that there's a fairer system with fewer flaws that will generally benefit the public more than the current system.

Free country is not the same as anything goes. You're free to do what you want to do as long as you obey rules, regulations and laws. If you are proven not to have obeyed rules, regulations and laws, you are subject to being penalized by the appropriate authorities, up to and including having some of your freedoms taken away. The current rules and regulations governing college football provide student athletes with a free college education plus a modest amount of expense money, which allows student athletes to focus on education and athletics without having to also hold a job to pay their bills. If these student athletes prove in college that they are professional caliber athletes, they go on to make millions after they graduate and sign their pro contracts. If they don't make it in the pros, they still have a college education and the ability to earn more during their working careers than the average person without a college degree. No system is perfect. They all have flaws, some worse than others. Any potential replacement for the current system should be scrutinized and analyzed to the nth degree to understand whether it is more or less flawed. The fundamental consideration of any potential replacement system should be: First, do no harm.

I think there's a good rationale for why the college football player work rule was instituted, and so I support the rule. But I'm pretty open-minded on most issues, and am always willing to change my mind if I see a good, solid case against something I support. If presented with a good case made for eliminating the rule, I'd be open to supporting that. But the case would have to be carefully thought out with all aspects of the situation taken into consideration. I've yet to see that case made in a way that would cause me to change my mind from believing that eliminating the rule has the potential to cause more problems than it resolves.

Another bombshell. Apparently there is proof that Pryor was getting paid lots of money. Hard to believe that he would actually deposit checks in his checking account, thus leaving a paper trail. But that's apparently what has been uncovered. The bad news for tOSU is that their own investigation somehow missed this, which may lead the NCAA to believe that tOSU was not serious about cleaning up their mess, which means that the NCAA will have to do the job for them, and the result could be bigger than a lot of people think. Why the OSU case is worse than that of USC

How's this for a bombshell on Pryor appearing within the last few hours: He's alleged to have been raking in as much as $40k per year over the last couple of years by selling autographed memorabilia. No proof yet, so it's just an allegation. But the investigative reporters are working overtime on tOSU, so who knows what else may come out and what may be proven true? Terrelle Pryor signings netted thousands

I also had one of the greatest steaks ever at the Diamond Grille about 40 years ago. Fabulous dining experience. Then I went about five years ago. The service was slow, the orders got mixed up, and my steak was tough, dry, and way overpriced. Not a great dining experience. Haven't been back since.

That ends the NCAA investigation of Pryor. Since he's no longer a college football player, he's no longer required to cooperate with the NCAA investigation. So now the NCAA can turn its full attention to the tOSU athletic department.

Yet more lies, as phone calls and texts are released after previously being withheld as "private" and not related to the football scandal: In the year since former Ohio State University coach Jim Tressel learned of NCAA violations by some of his football players, he had far more contact with his star quarterback's mentors than previously disclosed, records released yesterday show. Details revealed on Tressel calls, texts

Don't know if any of the SI story has been "debunked," i.e. proven to be untrue. But there have been some challenges such as the following: Father disputes Simon's inclusion in 'SI' article

Of course all of the hundreds of different media charges against tOSU will not be proven true. It's an accepted fact of life that once a media feeding frenzy begins, every alleged transgression tends to be reported, and allegations must be proven true to merit punishment. So I agree with Buckzip that some of the alleged charges being made by some will ultimately prove to be unfounded. On the other hand, once an investigation begins, other transgressions are sometimes uncovered that aren't even directly related to the original problem. When you turn loose a pack of investigative reporters, they'll get some things wrong. But all it takes is one reporter stumbling onto a real problem to blow the whole thing up even bigger. By the way, I've been following the Auburn/State of Alabama situation pretty closely. Auburn fans have a lot in common with tOSU fans right now. They are also saying that "all the charges aren't true" and "everyone does it." It's a survivor mentality for rabid sports fans faced with the reality that their beloved team has been caught redhanded. Sports fans can be among the least objective people when it comes to their team, and many Zips fans would react the same way if faced with a similar situation with their team.

I have a bizarre fascination with old thread resurrections.

Nothing at all wrong with bringing up an old article on Clarett when it contains a pertinent gem in it like the following: He left behind the car dealerships, where he says the head coach got him SUVs. The detailed description toward the end of that story about how he got loaners sounds remarkably similar to what we're hearing today.

Pryor's attorney (surely a busy man these days) reveals that his client's driver's license has been reinstated after showing proof of insurance (love the ESPN headline): Terrelle Pryor gets back privileges Pryor's attorney explains why his client is absolutely innocent of violating any rules in relation to borrowing cars: Attorney explains Terrelle Pryor loaners Speculation that tOSU threw Pryor under the bus to take the focus of media attention off the tOSU athletic department: Ohio State selling out Pryor? And another tOSU player steps forward to say that he was offered a car but turned it down: Former Buckeye LB says he was offered a car

Former tOSU QB Craig Krenzel weighs in on the growing problem of the sense of entitlement and screwed up set of priorities in the current generation of college football players. The unanswered question is exactly where is this sense of entitlement and screwed up set of priorities coming from? Exactly what has happened to these young players to make them that way? How much are the young players screwing up the current college football system, and how much is the current college football system screwing up the young players? Tressel "caught holding smoking gun in his hand"

Here's a followup on why Pryor's driver's license was suspended that offers further insight into his attitude toward higher authorities. It wasn't suspended because of the three traffic citations. It was because the last time he appeared in court for a citation, he failed to produce proof of driver's insurance. Since then, he has failed to respond to several requests from the court to provide proof of insurance in order to have his driver's license reinstated. Pryor's driver's license suspended in Ohio

Yep, everything about Pryor's current situation reeks of the sense of entitlement that win-at-any-cost football factory schools with huge, fanatical fan bases encourage in their star players. The second part of the following SI column deals with student reaction, and some describe Pryor as a cocky, arrogant dude who appears to love to flaunt his special status. Some students would be happy to see Pryor hit the road along with Tressel. But it's not all on Pryor. Whatever character he may have had before he arrived at tOSU, he's also the product of the tOSU football system in particular and college football in general that encourages such behavior. In Columbus, a mournful mood

Apparently Pryor did not learn some important life lessons from Tressel at tOSU. When Pryor drove up in his fancy sports car in the midst of the investigation over why he has access to so many cars, he was apparently driving on a suspended driver's license: Buckeyes Star QB T. Pryor Drove With Suspended License

Someone could start a poll on ZN.O, and I'll bet the votes would be scattered around quite a bit with no clear favorite. There have been many good players, but I don't see any single standout player who clearly rises above all the rest. Every player mentioned so far would be on my Top 10 list. I never saw Bill Turner play. But since he's the only Zips player to ever play significant time in the NBA, he was obviously the most talented Zips player when compared with all other college basketball players of his era. The best Zips players of other eras may have been better college players than Turner, but none of them ever proved themselves at the top professional level. Turner may not have had a great NBA career, but he's the only Zip who has one worthy of note. Heck, at one point in his career he was even traded along with Jim King for the great Jerry Lucas. That has to count for something. Bill Turner Career NBA Stats

The lure of having a proven winning college football head coach at the highest level is powerful enough to cause even people with high integrity to consider making compromises. Just like recruiting that big, fast, talented HS player with marginal grades and problems with the law can be justified under the heading of "giving the poor kid a chance to be rehabilitated and redeem himself," so can the same case be made for the proven winning head coach who once showed "a little indiscretion." As GP1 pointed out, even the SI writer is telling people he thinks all winning college football head coaches cheat to some degree. Once everyone buys into that, it's only a half step to the conclusion that, hey, as long as any head coach we hire is going to cheat, we should go after the biggest proven winner available that we can afford to pay. It's not a fantasy to imagine that there are schools out there with much bigger football budgets than UA weighing the pros and cons of going after Tressel right now. The discussion is going on at campuses across the country, just as it is on ZN.O.

Listening to UA fans fantasizing about "going after" Jim Tressel is a lot like listening to teenage boys fantasizing about "going after" Angelina Jolie. Nothing wrong with that. A little healthy fantasizing never hurt anyone.

The NCAA will not be able to bury the Auburn/State of Alabama issue even if it wanted to. There are too many elements involved that are being investigated by state and federal authorities that go far beyond college football. Too much is going to come out in public with college football wrapped up in it. The tOSU issue is just a small part of a big problem. The SI story on tOSU that Zach just posted a link to in Off Topic is just the warm up act. Investigative reporters are going to be all over college football, and Auburn is potentially a riper target than tOSU. Pandora's Box is open.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with "building" when done right. Building is the path to success when done right. When done wrong, it really isn't building. It's called spinning your wheels.