Dave in Green

@Zipgrad01, seriously? You feel worse about today's loss because you read a post on a Rivals forum about how bad the Zips are? So a few hundred people may read that forum, while the TV audience of many thousands today heard the announcers repeat over and over again what a great basketball program UA has had over the past decade. If you're really in to making yourself feel bad, be sure to also read the Bobkitty and Can't forums, because they will be dissing the Zips big time as well. This is what rivals do when you're already down -- they rub it in really hard to make you slink off into a corner and want to slit your wrists. But, really, why does any Zips fan need to read anything outside of ZN.o to feel worse than they already do after today's game?

That's a really good article in terms of talking to a lot of key people and getting a wide variety of opinions on all the pros and cons. And just like all the many discussions we've had on the subject right here, the article concludes that there's no slam dunk approach that's guaranteed to work.

South Carolina was the perfect storm to totally expose all the Zips' weaknesses, and there are many weaknesses that need to be worked on. The Zips' string of 22-game winning seasons is definitely facing its biggest challenge this season. This team can still develop into a very good MAC team, but will be seriously challenged by several other teams for the championship. If they make it to the NCAA tournament, we should all pray that they get a favorable matchup. If they have to go up against a nationally ranked team with a playing style that exposes their weaknesses, it could get as ugly as last season's VCU game. Whoever started the rumor that South Carolina is a horrible team based on their early season results was way off. The Gamecocks are loaded with freshmen. They start 3 freshmen and a sophomore. You would expect them to look horrible in their first few games. But they're quickly coming together under Frank Martin, who had a heck of a coaching record at Kansas State. As the season goes on, the Gamecocks will be causing problems for better teams than the Zips.

Total embarrassment.

I take back what I've been saying about South Carolina. In addition to having a lot of high energy players, they are also very well coached. They're making the Zips look silly at both ends of the court.

+1. The Zips may not be able to out-athlete South Carolina in terms of speed and hops, but they can certainly outplay them. If they play with a sense of urgency for 40 minutes and with each player's focus on what's best for the team, the Zips will win.

I'll be there!

@GP1, a few comments about some of your comments: By NCAA regulation, each school is allowed to have only 3 assistant coaches. Steve McNees has not been part of the coaching staff. He is formally listed as a member of the support staff, and his official title is video coordinator. There are 5 other members of the support staff -- another video coordinator and 4 graduate assistants (including Brian Walsh) -- who support the coaching staff. The support staff is technically not allowed to "coach" the players, but can work with them in any number of helpful ways within the NCAA rules. Steve was just recently named to fill in as director of basketball operations during Dan Peters' medical leave of absence. At UA, that position along with the head coach and 3 assistant coaches are listed together as the 5-man coaching staff. Since NCAA regulation limits the total number of coaches to 4 (1 head and 3 assistants), Coach Peters should really be listed under support staff. What UA lists as coaching staff might better be described as senior staff, as Coach Peters obviously has way more experience and knowledge of coaching than anyone listed on the support staff. Even though Coach Peters can't technically be an assistant coach to the players, he can and has been a coach to the coaches. He has attended virtually every Zips practice and has been on the bench at almost every Zips game. He has a keen eye for how the players are performing, and the coaches value his advice. So even if the 3 formal assistant coaches remain the same next season, there will be a major loss in input from Coach Peters. If Steve McNees ends up taking Coach Peters' position on the senior staff next season, his input will be quite different. Steve's father was a coach, Steve thinks like a coach, and Steve would be able to give the coaches good input from a recent player perspective. The current players all respect Steve, and promoting him to a higher position would enhance his ability to influence the direction of the team. I agree with your analysis of Coach Dambrot. The key word is "may." No matter how long an assistant coach has been around, it's not "too long" as long as they are performing at a high level and continuing to advance their games. Since Coach Dambrot is judged by the performance of the team, and the assistant coaches are at least partially responsible for team performance, it's in Coach Dambrot's best interests to have the best assistant coaches he can find. If he chooses to keep assistants 9 or 10 years, I suspect it's because he has done a thorough analysis and sees no better options. And how do we know that he doesn't? How do we know whether or not he has challenged his assistant coaches to raise the level of their games, and how do we know if they have delivered? Look, I understand that every time the Zips lose games we really want them to win that we start speculating about anything and everything that might make a difference. It's fair for anyone to advance any theory and it's fair for anyone else to try to shoot holes in any theory. This can be a good discussion where each of us might learn something we didn't know before. I tried to assemble some information in this post from what I already knew along with some things that I just looked up. I already feel somewhat more knowledgeable about the coaching situation and hope to learn more as the discussion goes on.

There's already an assistant coaching position set to change at the end of this season when Dan Peters retires. Since there are only 4 assistants on the coaching staff, that represents a 25% change. Should Steve McNees, who is currently filling in for Peters, permanently take over the position, the assistant lineup (along with their years of seniority at UA) would look like this: Terry Weigand (10), Rick McFadden (9), Charles Thomas (4) and McNees (2). That's a reasonable balance of seniority for program stability and new blood for fresh thinking. Replacing Peters with McNees would also drop the average age of the assistant coaches by nearly 10 years. If Coach Dambrot is as good a head coach as many of us think he is, he does annual performance reviews of his assistants and understands exactly what each one of them brings to the program and what it would take to replace them with someone of equal or greater value. For example, McFadden is in his 5th season as recruiting coordinator. Judging by comments on this forum, most seem to think that the last few recruiting classes have been among the best in Zips history in terms of player talent. So you don't want to chase McFadden away just because he's been here 9 years unless you're sure you can replace him with someone of equal or better recruiting ability.

@MDZip, love the stats. But you need to recheck them as several of Zeke's scoring and rebounding season averages are incorrect. StatSheet.com is a good source.

Q and Nyles are the only two effective PG options, so their playing time needs to be staggered. It's important to have them both in the game at the finish as they are the most reliable backcourt ball handlers and free throw shooters. Having both in the starting lineup means there will be more time in the middle of the game when they're not playing together. I'd rather one start and one come off the bench. If Nyles is to be the primary PG and Q the backup, it makes sense to start the primary PG and have a former MAC 6th Man of the Year be first off the bench.

For a little historical perspective on the conversation in this thread, everyone should go back and read this Detroit game thread from a year ago. The loss to Detroit left the Zips 4-4, and the conversation about the team's performance sounded remarkably like this one. What followed was the 19-game winning streak that no one predicted or expected. Re-reading last year's Detroit thread saves me from repeating everything I've already said about the wisdom of UA holding on to Coach Dambrot. He's the best proven head basketball coach who would come to Akron in the first place and stay at UA after building a winning program with the resources UA is willing to invest. I will start paying attention to the dump Dambrot posts the minute someone posts anything resembling a feasible plan for UA to replace the most consistently successful basketball coach in Zips history with one who could be reasonably expected to produce better results over the long run.

@ZachTheZip, we know that KP16 didn't have a grade 3 sprain (complete tear of a ligament) or he wouldn't have been able to play at all. Grade 2 and 1 sprains are not serious enough to require surgery. Based on everything I've seen, I believe that KP16 was given medical clearance to continue playing on a wrapped ankle because the prognosis was that it would not result in further damage. Therefore, I think he will fully recover in the offseason without requiring surgery. But please do let us know if you hear otherwise.

A lot of really good observations from a number of people here. I had questioned the Zips' physical energy and endurance while others have pointed out the mental aspects that can affect the physical posture. It may be a combination in that some of the players do not put in the work required to maintain high physical energy throughout a game and some don't have the mental and emotional toughness to buckle down and give more effort when things are starting to go wrong. Deji is a great example of a high energy athlete who never quits, but who lacks the skill and finesse of his teammates. I've never seen him sulk or back down on the court. He's always giving it his best effort, especially on defense, even when the game is slipping away. Deji is earning more playing time with his positive energy, and more playing time is slowly improving his skills and finesse. If the rest of the Zips players performed at Deji's energy level, we would not be having this discussion about the second half collapse against the Gamecocks. Somewhere in the total package some things have broken down between last season and this season. The Zips lost their defensive anchor (Zeke), their offensive leader (Alex) and two other key players (Brian and Chauncey). Offsetting that was the return after a year off of the MAC 6th Man of the Year (Q), the arrival of a juco transfer who was originally expected to learn the Zips system as a backup to Alex (Nyles) and adding to the mix two talented but raw freshmen (Big Dog and Kwan). It was reasonable to expect that this major turnover would result in early-season problems. But I didn't expect to see the team chemistry so far off at this point. It will be interesting to see how Coach Dambrot handles this and turns things around before "3 days at the Q" starts looking shaky.

Right. No one wants the Zips to always have to fall back on "3 days at the Q." But after a certain number of losses each season, reasonable people acknowledge the reality that no other options are left for that season. That's the reality of where we are right now this season. It's absurd for anyone to insinuate that acknowledging reality is the same as being satisfied with reality.

Exactly what I was afraid of after seeing what the Gamecocks did to Saint Mary's. South Carolina is not a highly skilled team, but they have a lot of energy and endurance. They ran by the Zips like the Zips were stuck in mud. I'm sick and tired of listening to announcers describing the Zips as "out of gas" in the second half of games. Why? Why are the Zips out of gas when the other team is running as fast as they were in the first half? I'm willing to have a little patience for these players to come together as a team. You can't bring in a juco combo guard and a wing who just sat out a year as your PG rotation and expect instant success. It's going to take the whole season for the team chemistry to come together. But I am losing patience with the Zips running out of gas. There's no excuse for that when you're running a deep rotation. Other teams have multiple players averaging 30+ minutes per game without running out of gas. Cancel Zips basketball practice and start getting these guys to run marathons and build the physical endurance required to play college basketball at a high level for 40 minutes. I want to see 5 Zips on court every minute of every game who have as much or more energy than their opponents.

Surgery for sprained ankles is only rarely needed, but is a well-documented medical procedure in rare cases where there is collateral damage to cartilage, etc. Odds are greatly in KP16's favor not to need surgery, but there's always a remote possibility.

I'd say a 19-0 start with a road win over Kansas would guarantee Toledo a top 15 ranking and maybe top 10. Not gonna happen, though. The Rockets are good, but not that good.

We already know how a MAC team's ranking can rise in the national polls after starting off the season 3-5 and then winning 19 games in a row. Just look back at what the Zips accomplished last season. Long winning streaks absolutely have a lot of value to voters in national polls no matter when in the season the long streak occurs. Should Toledo start the season 19-0, they would likely be ranked even higher than the Zips were last season when their 19-game winning streak moved them to 22-5.

When Coach Bowden says that KP16 had to "play half the season with a sprained ankle," I wonder if this is the injury @ZachTheZip was referring to when he said that KP16 was putting off having surgery? Having a sprained ankle through half a football season suggests it was more severe than a typical sprain. Just wondering if it's healing on its own now that the season is over or if there's damage that needs to be surgically repaired.

Things are much clearer for me this morning about who the Zips will be playing. The lesson from last night is that a sinus infection, meds, alcohol and late night posting don't go well together. Having watched the Gamecocks run circles around Saint Mary's on Sunday, I'm not as confident as some others here that they will be a pushover. If they shoot 58% from the field and outrebound the Zips the way they did the Gaels, it could be a tough game. As I posted after watching that game, South Carolina plays aggressively and is loaded with athletes who make up for any lack of skills with high energy, speed and hops. Zips should win if they play a disciplined game on both offense and defense.

Saint Mary's crushed the Zips. South Carolina upset Saint Mary's. Tonight Boise State is crushing South Carolina (76-47 with 4 minutes left) and will be the Zips' Christmas gift at the Diamond Head Classic. So the Zips will have a major challenge facing Boise State, which has been getting a lot of attention from the media as one of the better teams in the country. Will the Zips roll over after their beating at the hands of Iowa State, or will they regroup and get back on a winning track?

I'm not ready to think about next season. I have confidence in Coach Dambrot bringing in a steady stream of talent. But after each season starts I file that away under future assumptions and focus on the present. The Zips have two tough games on the road coming up over the next few days. I want to see how resilient they are. You know, a couple of weeks ago we thought the Zips were never going to come together enough to beat anyone. Then they started beating some mid-level teams and we started getting more optimistic. Now we know they haven't come together to the point of beating the #14 team in the country at this point in the season and that makes us a little pessimistic. I don't think the Zips are done improving. Let's see how good they can get and how fast they can get there.

Gotta suck it up and come back strong Wednesday. South Carolina and Boise State aren't as good as Iowa State, but they're good enough to beat the Zips if the Zips don't bring their best game.

The Cyclones are running faster than the Zips and working harder, but they're not tired out. Running teams are better conditioned than halfcourt teams. It's the same reason that VCU can run the Zips into the ground. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Zips lack the physical conditioning of the top teams. They run out of gas while their opponent is running wild.