Dave in Green

It's Z Day! If anyone comes up with last-minute word on where we'll be meeting Zeke after the game, please post here so we can check in on our smartphones during the game.

NE's receiving corps was decimated this season. Great QB + ordinary receivers = less than great results. The Pats did well to get as far as they did. I'm just glad to have a Super Bowl where I'll feel good no matter which team wins. It's going to be pure entertainment and no downside for me as I have no particular dislike of either Seattle or Denver with Manning at QB. I just hope to see a close, exciting game.

Sorry, the numbers for combined average minutes played by UT's key (top 5) players do not support your theory, but in fact show less than a 1.5% difference, which is within the rounding error for partial minutes played: 144 = all games 146 = big games (Kansas, Boston College, Zips) Look, some of the points you've made are good. Nobody's perfect. It's OK to admit the parts we get wrong when presented with factual data. I do it all the time.

@skip-zip, yes, I believe we are in substantial agreement on many points. We can speculate on how things might have turned out under different circumstances, but we can't really know. I believe that this season's Zips team would be much more stable and cohesive at all positions with Alex at the point and Q at the wing, and, though I can't prove it, that the Zips would have entered the Toledo game with much more confidence that would have resulted in a substantially different outcome. I especially agree with your point that it's all about winning games. That's why I compare last season's accomplishment of a 19-game winning streak to what this season's team has shown it's capable of doing to date.

@GP1, yes, I'm familiar with the tactic of deflection to divert attention from the point being discussed. The simplest way to resolve a debate about numbers is to simply present the numbers. In this case, the numbers support the position that Toledo's 9-player rotation does not play substantially different minutes in bigger games than their season average against all teams: 33, 30, 28, 27, 26, 17, 16, 11, 11 = UT season average 34, 32, 29, 26, 23, 18, 15, 14, 9 = UT vs. Kansas 34, 34, 31, 29, 25, 16, 11, 11, 9 = UT vs. Boston College 38, 35, 28, 21, 18, 18, 12, 12, 5 = UT vs. Zips

@skip-zip, your last post ignores the point that if the Zips had a true PG capable of playing at a level at least as high as Alex that Q would be operating at the wing full time and the Zips offense would be much smoother and more effective in scoring points. The Zips held Toledo 8 points under their season scoring average and would have had a good chance of outscoring them with Alex at the point and Q at the wing. Last season the pieces had to be moved around to account for Q's absence and this season to account for Alex's absence. The simple reality is that last season's team won 19 games in a row without Q while this season's team is incapable of winning 19 in a row without an effective PG. That's not a knock on Q, who's a brilliant performer at what he does best. That's just the nature of how disruptive it's been to this team to lose its only true, effective PG.

I gave you the season average and you said that was too general, that you wanted to know what they did in big games. I gave you their biggest game, which almost exactly matches their season average, and now you say that's too small a sample. You reject all data that disproves your opinion while offering no data to support your opinion. Game over.

Well of course WMU beat Toledo. WMU was a pre-season pick for MAC champion by some. Just look at how WMU only lost to mighty Bowling Green today by 5 measly points to go 2-2 in the MAC. After less than a quarter of the MAC season, the one thing we know for sure is that no team is going to go undefeated in conference play. Beyond that, there are lots of twists and turns ahead.

Same answer as before:

@zippyfan34, that makes a little more sense. Weatherspoon's transfer out of tOSU was reported on April 16, 2012, and his commitment to Toledo came a month later on May 15, 2012. Coach Dambrot was well aware of how talented Weatherspoon was from having recruited him before he committed to tOSU and would likely have had interest. I think there are still important details missing about what really happened.

Interesting quote from Juice Brown in Livingston's story: “Marshall altered all my shots. Glad he’s gone.”

I don't understand what Livingston is talking about when he says that Weatherspoon was spurned by UA when the scholarships ran out. Weatherspoon was originally recruited by some high-majors as well as some mid-majors, including UA where he was recruited by Jeff Boals. When Boals moved to Columbus, Weatherspoon was offered by tOSU and accepted. Is Livingston trying to say that Weatherspoon would have selected UA over tOSU if the Zips hadn't run out of scholarships? There's no way Coach Dambrot would have given up his last scholarship as long as he thought he had a shot at Weatherspoon.

Would you consider Toledo's game against Kansas meaningful enough? Here's what UT's 9-man rotation played against Kansas vs. their season average minutes compared with the season average minutes played by each of the 10 Zips players averaging double-digit minutes. 34, 32, 29, 26, 23, 18, 15, 14, 9 = UT vs. Kansas 33, 30, 28, 27, 26, 17, 16, 11, 11 = UT season average 31, 27, 24, 23, 22, 19, 13, 12, 11, 11 = Zips season average

It's the 22 or more wins per season that puts the Zips in the exclusive class with Duke, Gonzaga, Kansas, tOSU and Pitt. It can be done, but it's going to be a big challenge this season.

Toledo has 9 players who have averaged 11 or more minutes per game while playing in all 17 games. One of the little wrinkles that no one has mentioned is that for the first time this season, the Rockets had a different starting line up. After the same 5 starting in 16 previous games, they started sub Jonathan Williams in place of regular starter Justin Drummond. Williams ended up playing only 12 minutes, but the different look was one of many little things the Rockets did that showed how much priority they placed on this game. Toledo went to extraordinary lengths to win this game, and it showed. Going into this game I don't think the Zips fully appreciated that the torch has been passed and OU is no longer the biggest obstacle to winning the MAC. Just as OU replaced Can't a few years ago as the toughest challenge in the MAC for the Zips, Toledo is now the team the Zips have to beat. They will be better prepared next time.

It wasn't much fun being a Zips fan at the JAR today. But thanks for sharing the nice photos and the important perspective for the Zips and their fans to keep in mind.

You know it's not a normal game day when you're still drinking your morning coffee on the way to the JAR. Then there was the game. It was like watching a state-of-the-art Formula One car racing a cobbled-together jalopy from Barberton Speedway. No question that Toledo is a complete team with a lot of stability that has talented players at every position who play together with great chemistry. A lot of the damage today came from their PG, which only makes it all the more painful how weak the Zips are at that position. I'll give the Zips credit for having only 2 more turnovers and 1 less assist than Toledo in the game. But the killer was being outrebounded by 14. This Zips team can't win if they're outrebounded that badly. Toledo has the look of OU's Sweet 16 team. If they get to the NCAA tournament, they could pull an upset or two. Having said that, I don't think they're a lock to win the MAC tournament. WMU and Buffalo have already exposed the Rockets as being vulnerable. The Zips will need a lot more intensity and a little luck to beat Toledo if they meet again at the Q. Then again, Coach Dambrot has a great track record for getting his teams to the championship game at the Q. If the Zips and Rockets should meet for the title, there's always the possibility of a shocker like the one the Zips pulled on the Kitties last season. The season is far from over. Time to suck it up and play better in the 14 remaining regular season MAC games. Seeding for the MAC tournament is a big deal.

In addition to having the same starting 5 for all 16 games, Toledo has 4 players off the bench who all average double-digit minutes and who have also played in all 16 games. How many teams in the country have had the same 9-player rotation for every game they've played? While the 4 subs together average a modest 17 points per game, one of them is the team's 3rd leading rebounder. So while Toledo's bench is not as strong as the Zips bench, it should not be underestimated.

GT has a more positive take than EA: UA basketball: Zips face morning wake-up call against Rockets

I wouldn't settle for just anyone.

TeamRankings.com predicts 51.7% chance of a Zips win.

Toledo has an unusually stable lineup. They're one of the few teams in the country where the same 5 starters have started all 16 games. The 5 starters are the team's 5 leading scorers, and all of them have averaged 26-33 minutes per game, with the top players off the bench averaging no more than 16 minutes. So there's been no question from day one about Toledo's lineup, and no performance problems, injuries or other incidents to disrupt the team's stability. All that experience playing together should make them the most cohesive team in the MAC, which makes their struggles against WMU and Buffalo all the more puzzling.

Great news. Looking forward to seeing Zeke and his family after the game. Any idea where we should meet after the game? If not, we'll just stay in our seats and try to see which way the really tall guy goes.

South Carolina is screwed again as they lose their second PG and leading scorer to a fractured foot. Tyrone Johnson out indefinitely

Dean of coaches in a conference refers to the coach who has been at his current school within that conference the longest. So, for example, Jim Christian had to start over after leaving Can't and then later landing in Athens.