JD VS THE MAC

[Lee Adams]

somebody check my math, please...i went to the archives and came up with this stat...since he started in 2004(Charley's last year)...JD's teams are 17-17 in the MAC...is that right?...i forgot UCF was in the MAC?... the trend has been downward since...in any event...that won't get it done against the 'good' teams in the MAC...those wins against NCST and the 'CUSE and ARMY don't mean a lot unless you can win in the MAC...your thoughts...

[Captain Kangaroo]

We all know you hate JD. Give it a rest.

[Zipmeister]

To paint a worse picture you could tally up Akron's MAC record by quarter. For example, we may have been outscored in three of four quarters of a game that we won. With my suggestion you can report they we were outscored 1-3 rather than giving them credit for winning the game. Your thoughts?

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

FWIW, I do remember a time when Zips fans were worried that JD's stock either was rising, or would rise, so quickly that he would bolt UA for a higher paying, more prestigious gig before he completed building out the program. I believe that as of right now, he is not perceived to be a coaching star on the rise and that many of us fans are still playing a game of wait and see with him. It would surely be a wonderful thing to see him finish this year strong and open some eyes in the community, and in the MAC, next year at Infocision. Crossing my fingers.GO ZIPS!SeeTee"Drink Beer, Drink Beer....."

[Dr Z]

Love him or hate him, JD is the only coach in history to win the MAC at Akron.

[GP1]

Love him or hate him, JD is the only coach in history to win the MAC at Akron.

Excellent point. In addition (someone please check this), I don't think UofA ever beat a BCS level team since joining the MAC. Maybe Temple years ago, but that was before the BCS.Sometimes progress does not take place in leaps and bounds. Sometimes it takes place slowly and the signs are not always obvious, especially to those of limited intellect.Let's just assume for a second that JD gets let go after say a 5-7 season. The question then becomes (Browns fans never ask this question when engaging in their non-stop clamoring for different coaches and QBs), What then? More than likely, the answer is probably another guy almost exactly like JD. Then the five year cycle of stupidity starts again. Patrick McManamon wrote an article on Sept. 16 in the ABJ and said this about firing the Browns coach, What sense does it make to fire a guy after you've extended his contract, and how in the world would it help to start over again? Again?. Again is right!If JD only wins 4 games this year, it is probably time for a change. I thought the number would be five at the beginning of the season, but the injuries to the DL are something you can't blame on coaching. I'll give you guys two examples of organizations and you tell me which you would rather be. In my 39 years on this Earth, the Browns have had too many coaches to count on one paw (a little Dawg Pound humor for you Browns fans). My favorite team, the Steelers, has had three. If the key to a successful football team is turning over your coach every couple of years, how come the Steelers have not enjoyed the same success the Browns have in the past 39 years? Organizational stability is a huge part of the Steelers success. We need some stability at UofA unless things fall apart.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I've said this many times...I will say it again...Winning at UA is not easy. If it were, Faust would have won something in his 9 years. Owens would have won something in his 9 years. But they didn't.JD came into the UA job with a different approach. He wanted big, strong, BCS-level athletes. He forgot one thing...they needed to pass classes to see the field. That miscalculation was his fault. But it was also the University's fault. The academic support at UA was terrible 3-4 years ago. At BCS schools, student athletes who struggle with the books get such a helping hand it is ridiculous. At UA, these kids were on their own. Nice combination...at-risk kid + no support. Here is where Mack Rhoades needs to earn his paycheck --JD changed his recruiting strategy. You can see it already. The 2007 class is 95% in-tact. The 2008 class is on the roster, as it was in February (LOI day). That's in stark contrast to 2005 and 2006.Mack needs to sift through the effects of JD's early decisions + the University's athletic & academic support effects, and take a hard look at the direction of the program TODAY. Are the kids that are here NOW, on-track? Are the kids that are here NOW solid D-1 athletes? In my opinion, you get a mulligan or two at UA that you wouldn't get at BCS schools. At Alabama, Notre Dame, Florida...those schools are "machines," where tradition, history, support, income...all that is stacked to the ceiling when you step in the door. If you can't win in 4-5 years, you're gone. It's on the coach. 100%. At UA, you gotta figure out a situation that BCS coaches would NEVER need to deal with. A situation that the last two coaches couldn't figure out in 9 years (each). It ain't easy.I give JD until the end of 2008 to see how things play out. That's a full 5 seasons to gauge the program's direction (not the 2008 record, the program's direction). And unless there's a train wreck of a 2008, with 4-or-less wins and a loss to pathetic K.e.n.t, I'm guessing Mack give JD a short extension. In such a scenario, he should. But it should be made clear -- JD's has used his mulligans. It is time to show clear progress.I think JD's figured things out. Unfortunately, there's no single player or recruiting class that can change a program's fortunes overnight. It takes time @ UA. More than 5 years...but not 9.

[johnnyzip84]

I tend to agree with GP1 as far as 4 wins or less being a possible revised cutoff for JD this year. Before the season started I thought 5-7 would be borderline, but now I think if the team finished 5-7 or better he will be, and should be, the guy leading the Zips onto the Info in 2009.As far as BCS wins prior to JD, it gets a little tricky. We've had the BCS since 1998. It replaced the Bowl Alliance (1995-1997), which in turn had replaced the Bowl Coalition (1992-1994). Technically, the 1999 win over Temple (25-15) should count as a BCS win since the Owls were still in the Big East at the time. This is the only other BCS conference opponent the Zips have defeated in the BCS era, besides NC State and Syracuse. If you open it up to look at teams that are NOW in BCS conferences, and keep the discussion to the modern era (I'll say after 1970, sorry Heisman family members out there), I believe the only TWO victories that I can recall came against the UC Bearcats, 24-22 at Nippert in 1992 and 31-0 (yes, that is correct....I was there on a bright sunny day with about 6,000 others lol) at the Rubber Bowl in 1989 (both Faust teams).

[RACER]

i do agree to give jd the rest of this season.the d-line injuries have hurt this team alott.if jd goes 6-6 maybe 5-7 he should stay.the one factor people forget is that buffalo,and temple were not as good as akron when jd came in.both those teams beat akron last year,and are at least as good as akron right now.they have improved where akron has skidded.i know akron is a hard place to build a program,but the coaches at temple/buffalo have not used that as an excuse.

[Captain Kangaroo]

they have improved where akron has skidded. i know akron is a hard place to build a program,but the coaches at temple/buffalo have not used that as an excuse.

They haven't won squat either. What were Temple and Buffalo's records last year? The year before?

[g-mann17]

they have improved where akron has skidded. i know akron is a hard place to build a program,but the coaches at temple/buffalo have not used that as an excuse.

They haven't won squat either. What were Temple and Buffalo's records last year? The year before?

Apparently Cap, a lot of people see winning 4 more games as improvement.Buffalo 2005 1-10 Beat Can't StateBuffalo 2006 2-10 Beat Temple; Can't StateBuffalo 2007 5-7 Beat Temple; Ohio; Toledp; Akron; Can't StateTemple 2005 0-11Temple 2006 1-11; Beat BGSUTemple 2007 4-8 Beat NIU; Akron; Miami (OH); Can't StateSo where is this vast improvement? How are these teams the new "class of the MAC"? Oh and as you can see for yourself

[Captain Kangaroo]

Apparently Cap, a lot of people see winning 4 more games as improvement.

Improvement? Hell, they've "built a program!"Funny when JD wins 4 or 5 games they call for his head. An opponent wins 4, and "they've built a program." Sub-.500 forever...no championships forever...these guys are true program-builders.

[GP1]

In 2005, Akron won seven games, won the MAC (yes JD haters, they had a lot of tie breakers, but they won when they got there they beat a very good NIU team with an NFL RB twice that season) and went to a bowl (take a first round RB off of Memphis, and the Zips may win that game as well). Some would look at that and say, "The program is going backward if we don't win eight next season."(Eight wins in this day and age is a GREAT season for a MAC school.) Maybe, but here is another way to look at it. Using the exact logic above, Akron winning five games this season will be an improvement over the disaster that was last season. I actually think it is almost impossible for the team to again be as bad as last year. UofA has better talent on this team than at any other point in program history.This is the one question I ask myself that makes me believe Akron is an improved program over last year. Can the Zips beat anyone in the league? Honestly, I think the Zips have a good enough team to beat anyone in the league. From what I read on this board, if they execute better last week, they at least had the talent to beat Ball State. There were years during the Owens and Faust eras that I knew going into games there was no way the Zips were going to win. During the Owens years, the Rubber Bowl was the flame and I was the moth. There were times going against bad MAC teams in those seasons I didn't believe the Zips could win. I now believe the Zips can win any game they get into. Whether they do it or not is up to them.Temple and Buffalo are improved, but let's take a closer look before we decide they are better than the Zips three games into the season. After all, weren't the Browns the flushy new team predicted to dominate the AFC North? We may be looking at the same thing here. Buffalo is 2-1, but only has wins against a bad UTEP (there is no difference between UTEP and Syracuse) and Temple. Buffalo was pretty soundly beaten by a bad Pitt team. After reading that, is anyone really that impressed with Buffalo? Temple is 1-2, same as us, lost to UCONN at home where they didn't even score a TD and Buffalo. Temple has beaten Army. What evidence is there so far this season that either of these teams are better than last year or even the Zips? Akron is 1-2 against a much more difficult schedule than these two schools have played and they are starting guys on the DLine who are five months removed from their senior prom. Wisconsin is ranked in the top 15.... Ball State is perhaps the best team in the MAC and some have predicted it to be in the BCS this season..... Syracuse is still a BCS team we beat on the road. Have either Temple or Buffalo won a road game yet this season? Ball State would beat any team mentioned in this paragraph with the exception of Wisconsin and they may give Wisconsin a heck of a battle. Syracuse is probably better than Army and perhaps UTEP. If Buffalo and Temple defeat the Zips this season, I will say they have better teams. After all, the test of whether a team is good or not is decided on the field and not in the game day program. Until then, I still think the Zips can beat anyone in the league. I think some of you are throwing in the towel a little early this year and really want the Zips to lose just so JD will get fired and you can say you were right about something. It's really an amazing thing to watch.

[johnnyzip84]

In 2005, Akron won seven games, won the MAC (yes JD haters, they had a lot of tie breakers, but they won when they got there they beat a very good NIU team with an NFL RB twice that season) and went to a bowl (take a first round RB off of Memphis, and the Zips may win that game as well). Some would look at that and say, "The program is going backward if we don't win eight next season."(Eight wins in this day and age is a GREAT season for a MAC school.) Maybe, but here is another way to look at it. Using the exact logic above, Akron winning five games this season will be an improvement over the disaster that was last season. I actually think it is almost impossible for the team to again be as bad as last year. UofA has better talent on this team than at any other point in program history.This is the one question I ask myself that makes me believe Akron is an improved program over last year. Can the Zips beat anyone in the league? Honestly, I think the Zips have a good enough team to beat anyone in the league. From what I read on this board, if they execute better last week, they at least had the talent to beat Ball State. There were years during the Owens and Faust eras that I knew going into games there was no way the Zips were going to win. During the Owens years, the Rubber Bowl was the flame and I was the moth. There were times going against bad MAC teams in those seasons I didn't believe the Zips could win. I now believe the Zips can win any game they get into. Whether they do it or not is up to them.Temple and Buffalo are improved, but let's take a closer look before we decide they are better than the Zips three games into the season. After all, weren't the Browns the flushy new team predicted to dominate the AFC North? We may be looking at the same thing here. Buffalo is 2-1, but only has wins against a bad UTEP (there is no difference between UTEP and Syracuse) and Temple. Buffalo was pretty soundly beaten by a bad Pitt team. After reading that, is anyone really that impressed with Buffalo? Temple is 1-2, same as us, lost to UCONN at home where they didn't even score a TD and Buffalo. Temple has beaten Army. What evidence is there so far this season that either of these teams are better than last year or even the Zips? Akron is 1-2 against a much more difficult schedule than these two schools have played and they are starting guys on the DLine who are five months removed from their senior prom. Wisconsin is ranked in the top 15.... Ball State is perhaps the best team in the MAC and some have predicted it to be in the BCS this season..... Syracuse is still a BCS team we beat on the road. Have either Temple or Buffalo won a road game yet this season? Ball State would beat any team mentioned in this paragraph with the exception of Wisconsin and they may give Wisconsin a heck of a battle. Syracuse is probably better than Army and perhaps UTEP. If Buffalo and Temple defeat the Zips this season, I will say they have better teams. After all, the test of whether a team is good or not is decided on the field and not in the game day program. Until then, I still think the Zips can beat anyone in the league. I think some of you are throwing in the towel a little early this year and really want the Zips to lose just so JD will get fired and you can say you were right about something. It's really an amazing thing to watch.

Well, Temple DID win 35-7 at Army, but I generally agree with what you are saying. I'll add this, though. UB's offense is a "nice" MAC offense, with all the necessary weapons. They have a seasoned, accurate QB in Willy, and pounding and talented RB in Starks and an excellent WR is Roosevelt. It's their D that is pretty suspect. I look for a crazy Rubber Bowl finale later in the year. Temple seems to be the opposite, with a pretty nice D but an average offense. Like you say, lets let the season play itself out.

[RACER]

nobody said they were a powerhouse.my point was they both beat us last year.losing to both of those teams in one year should not happen.we should not lose to one of them let alone both,but under jd it did happen.i am all for giving him one more year if we can finish 6-6.i realize how much we have been beat up on the dl.that would be the only reason to keep him one more year.

[gozips19]

i watched some of the replay of the ub temple game (yeah i know, get a life....but there was nothing on yesterday ) and both of their offenses are legit. willy is the most stable qb in the mac and temple is very dangerous but their red zone o is bad (kind of like akron's o 2 years ago). akron still has a good chance to win the mac east but so does everybody else. can't wait to see how it plays out!

[Lee Adams]

We all know you hate JD. Give it a rest.

doesn't matter to me whether JD or Bonzo the Chimp is coaching...i sat through Gordon Larson, Jim Dennison, Faust, Owens...the first two established some sort of pattern of winning here...went to playoffs...i believe both ended over .500...nobody will go 10-2 or 9-3 here...but if you can't realistically compete for the division regularly...and you are always comparing yourself to the lowest common denominator..you become the lowest common denominator...people i work with are Browns and Indians fans...they talk about how they will never see an NFL championship or World Series Championship in there lifetimes...screw OSU...i always tell them that i have seen the one championship that counts the most for me...2005,Ford Field, Getsy to Hixon...thanks for that JD..