Final Tourney Seeding Thread

[Zip Watcher]

Ok, There's some dispute regarding the tiebreaking procedure, as to whether or not it goes down the schools as they're ranked by RECORD ONLY or if it goes down the schools as their ranked by SEEDING. This is important because then the record of tied teams against the West winner would come into play. I'm going to try and break it down both ways.First, the WEST: To get this out of the way, here's the situation in the West:

• Ball St. wins the West by beating EMU @ Home
• Western Michigan wins the West by beating CMU @ Home if BSU loses to EMU
• If CMU beats WMU & BSU loses to EMU, there will be a 3 way tie in the west.
• That tie is broken by whoever wins the MU @ U@B Game: A Miami win gives the West to CMU. A U@B win gives the West to BSU.

Make sense? Hope so.Now, moving on to the East, there appear to be 2 schools of thought. First, let's deal with the general vagueness of the conference site, and the method employed by most fans of other schools (Mollaut for example). This says that the seeding order doesn't play a role in tiebreakers. You just go down the rankings by record.In this case:

• Akron gets a bye by beating Can't State, no matter what.
• Akron WINS the East with a win vs. Can't State AND wins by both OU AND U@B on Sunday
• Akron secures a BYE with a win by Miami, regardless of what happens vs. Can't State

HOWEVER .. per Rasor, who is citing KD & Greg Bach as sources (ones I'd think know the details pretty well), the tiebreaker that uses records against the rest of the league in descending order DOES include the West winner as the 2 seed. This can change things to the Zips' benefit if true. Basically it gives the Zips one more route to the 1 seed. I don't believe it affects the bye in the case they lose to Can't.In this case:

• Akron gets a bye by beating Can't State, no matter what.
• Akron WINS the EAST with a win vs. Can't State AND wins by both OU and U@B on Sunday
• Akron also WINS the East with a win vs. Can't State and Miami win @ UB if BG loses to OU and CMU wins the West.
• Akron secures a BYE with a Miami win vs. U@B, regardless of the Can't State outcome.

As stated above, I'm not 100% certain regarding the West seeding impact on tiebreakers. But the simple things are this:1. With a win, Akron gets a bye.2. With a win, coupled with U@B and OU wins Sunday, Akron gets the 1 seed.3. With a Miami win, Akron gets a bye.Go Zips!! Time to find the offensive flow again! B)

[Bleacher Bum]

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks for the info, I'm going to print this page out and take it to the Can't game so I know exactly what's going on.

[Quickzips]

Let's just go beat Can't and let the rest of it play out how it may.

[MRasor0200]

There is one issue I'm cloudy about...If there are two teams tied in the MAC West, do you break that tie before beginning the MAC East tiebreaker? Or do the East teams take their combined records against the West teams?I believe the latter, because the MAC Web site says ties are broken in order, from 1 down. Dambrot believes the former, which makes it darn near impossible to break that West tie if you have to go to a 2nd tiebreaker in the West. If that is the case, Dambrot suggested giving the regular season title to the team with the best RPI, rather than flipping a coin.I'm going to try to figure it out today and tomorrow conclusively.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks for the info, I'm going to print this page out and take it to the Can't game so I know exactly what's going on.

I thought the same thing!

[tbozeglav]

Let's just go beat Can't and let the rest of it play out how it may.

Can't agree more. I don't care what our seeding is too much right now. I just want to see Can't lose again. If we happen to get a bye or even the #1 seed, then I'll be very happy. Beating Can't alone is all I care about.

[ZachTheZip]

All we can do is beat Can't, then hope the rest of the chaos happens to fall into place for us.

[Zip Watcher]

There is one issue I'm cloudy about...If there are two teams tied in the MAC West, do you break that tie before beginning the MAC East tiebreaker? Or do the East teams take their combined records against the West teams?I believe the latter, because the MAC Web site says ties are broken in order, from 1 down. Dambrot believes the former, which makes it darn near impossible to break that West tie if you have to go to a 2nd tiebreaker in the West. If that is the case, Dambrot suggested giving the regular season title to the team with the best RPI, rather than flipping a coin.I'm going to try to figure it out today and tomorrow conclusively.

Mike, I don't know the answer .. but in the dynamics of the current situation for the Zips, I don't think it matters.Here's why:The only 3 teams in play in the West are WMU, BSU & CMU. Against these teams, UA is 3-0. The Zips can't LOSE any tiebreaker involving the West champs .. no matter if it's a clear winner, a 2 way or 3 way tie. However, they CAN WIN a tiebreaker if one comes into play with Buffalo or Miami, as UB was only 2-1 against these three (lost to BSU) and Miami was 2-1 (lost to CMU). So the West thing can't hurt the Zips .. only help them. And if they're in a tie for something with BGSU and it goes to the West, both teams were 3-0 in those games .. and it goes on down the line, where we would generally lose since BG went 2-0 vs. U@B.

[skip-zip]

First of all, thanks to Zipwatcher for taking the time to try to clarify things for us. We want to know who to root for this weekend, right?I'll totally disagree with those who believe that "whatever seed we get doesn't really matter". The #1 seed will get to play the #8 seed (OU or an also-ran from the West) in the quarterfinals, rather than a stronger East team that will likely be in the 5 or 6 spot. PLUS...the automatic NIT bid is in your back pocket. I'd also like to be #3 instead of #4, since that gives you a semifinal game against the #2 West winner. So lets not forget.....There are some advantages this year to being as high as possible in the seeding.

[Zip Watcher]

I'd also like to be #3 instead of #4, since that gives you a semifinal game against the #2 West winner.

I think this is a big leap. Remember that the #3 will have to (likely) play the #6 on Thursday, which looks to be an East team. So I'm not so sure that the #3 will ever see the #2 seed.

[Z.I.P.]

As far as the #1 seed goes, and I'm sure ZW or another will correct me, but, I believe if BeeGee wins at home over Ohio, they are the #1, and get the automatic NIT bid. Correct?

[skip-zip]

Zipwatcher....please take a closer look.#3Plays the #6 seed in the quarters, and the #2 seed (West winner) in the semis.#4Plays the #5 seed in the quarters, and the #1 seed (East winner) in the semis. But you think it's a "leap" to think that #3 is a better spot than #4 ?? I don't get it.

[Zip Watcher]

Zipwatcher....please take a closer look.#3Plays the #6 seed in the quarters, and the #2 seed (West winner) in the semis.#4Plays the #5 seed in the quarters, and the #1 seed (East winner) in the semis. But you think it's a "leap" to think that #3 is a better spot than #4 ?? I don't get it.

I'll restate it:The #2 seed plays the 7 seed in the quarters. The 7 seed is probably going to be an East team. So the #2 seed may very well go home Thursday night, leaving East teams only. You can't assume that the #3 seed is going to play the West winner in the semis if the West winner has to play an East team on Thursday in the Quarters.That's why I don't think there's a big difference there. Both the #3 and #4 will be playing East teams on Thursday .. and if the favorites carry through .. they'll all be playing East teams on Friday.

[skip-zip]

Zipswatcher...now that makes sense. Yes, we can't just assume that the #2 West winner will still be there for the semis if we end up at #3. But, even if the #2 does get knocked out, the #7 seed that beats them is going to be either OU or the 2nd place team from the West. Wouldn't you still rather play either of them as opposed to the #1 seed in the semis?I think I know what your're thinking though....the 4 teams remaining by Friday could very well all be East teams, and if so, there really isn't a huge difference between them all. And that's probably the case.Now I will sit back and wait for someone to counter with, "well...it doesn't matter...you have to beat them all anyway". But believe me, the easiest path to the championship game is what you want to see when you look at your bracket. And I'll be hoping for the best.

[Zip Watcher]

My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter whom the Zips play. It matters how the Zips play.What matters is the Zips finding a way to re-discover some offensive rhythm ... er ... rhythm on offense. If they can do that, the opponent is less important. Now by "doing that" I mean against man, against 2-3 zone .. against press .. etc. In the middle of conference play, the Zips had it going .. so it's in there .. they just need to re-find it.Finding some offense, and (this is the important part) remaining committed to the stifling defense they've shown most of the season will give the Zips a very good shot at cutting the nets down.As for matchups against the East teams:- Miami: Doesn't scare me because they can't guard our bigs. Their depth is suspect, and in the 2nd half we can wear them down with the McKnights .. not an easy win .. but I think Akron can force the issue even in the half court and get good looks at the bucket. Zero chance the Redskins will come out in a 2-3 zone against the Zips.- OU: What we saw last night .. they're not very deep .. we can have a horrible shooting night and still be right there. You need to defend them the entire 35 and force them into bad shots. Also keep Tillman off balanced.- BG: Were the Zips to have aggressively pounded the ball inside on Sunday like last night .. even 5 or 6 times .. we'd be talking about having a bye already sewn up, and perhaps securing the 1 seed even with out winning at the MACC. I think the Zips match up well here. Solving the 2-3 a bit earlier in the game would put big time pressure on the Falcons.- U@B: I think defensively they give us problems .. maybe my least favorite matchup against the East because I haven't seen them much. Reggie's a good coach, and I'd think we'll see some zone.- Can't State: Sunday will tell the story. They appear to have 3 (potentially great) scorers .. and a bit of a drop off there. I don't think they have the cohesiveness defensively to successfully pull of 40 minutes of a 2-3 zone like BG did. Not crazy about playing them 3 times .. but we have beaten them 3 times in one season before.West:- EMU, CMU & UT don't really give me cause for too much concern. CMU has finished better down the stretch .. but taking the air out of the ball only got them beat by 25 @ the JAR. Not sure what they'd do differently a 2nd time around.- NIU: I have no interest in playing them. Sure, they're not good away from DeKalb, but Patton has KD's number some how some way .. if we could avoid them .. I'd be happy.- WMU: We seem to be able to play with them the past 3 or 4 years as long as it's not in Kalamazoo. - BSU: Maybe the best team in the West .. should win the West. Not sure why their record is as bad as it is .. but they seemed to be the best West team to come into the JAR by a big margin to me.Ultimately, I think the Zips have shown they're good enough to beat most any MAC team by double digits .. and also bad enough to lose to most any MAC team by 1 or 2 buckets. It's up to them how it's going to be.Go Zips!! B)

[Hilltopper]

Ultimately, I think the Zips have shown they're good enough to beat most any MAC team by double digits .. and also bad enough to lose to most any MAC team by 1 or 2 buckets. It's up to them how it's going to be.

ZW, I think you nailed it on this one. If we can somehow find our way on offense again, we could easily be the favorite. Defensively we can keep most teams in check, but we gotta find a way to put the ball in the hole!

[Zip Watcher]

OK .. building on some confidence that the 2 seed West winner factors into the tie-breaker, I think I can phrase it again .. may be cleaner with seeding details:If Akron wins vs. Can't:The Zips will be the #1 Seed in the following situations:1. OU beats BGSU. U@B beats Miami & Ball State wins the West (UA 1-0 vs. BSU, U@B 0-1).2. OU beats BGSU. Miami beats BGSU & CMU wins the West (UA 1-0 vs. CMU, MU 0-1).The Zips will be the #3 Seed in the following situations:3. BGSU beats OU. Regardless of the outcome of MU vs. U@B.4. OU beats BG, MU beats U@B & WMU or BSU wins the West.If Akron loses @ Can't:5. An OU win vs. BGSU gives UA the #4 Seed (& bye)6. A MU win gives UA the #4 Seed7. A BG win & U@B win drops UA to the #5 Seed.The closer I look at this, I'm feeling better about things. There's really only one scenario (#7) where the Zips play on Tuesday. EVERYTHING else puts the Zips through to Thursday.Go Zips!! End the speculation and POUND the flushes .. take control of your own destiny! B) B)

[Marty McFly]

Following through all of the games, here's what I have for seeds:

1. Bowling Green 11-5 - MAC-E Champion (2-0 against Buffalo)
2. Central Michigan 7-9 - MAC-W Champion (2-0 against Western Michigan, 1-1 against Ball St.)
3. Buffalo 11-5
4. Miami (OH) 10-6 - 1-1 against Akron, 2-0 against Can't State
5. Akron 10-6 - Went down to the 4th seed; Can't went 0-2 against Miami, Akron went 1-1.
6. Can't State 10-6
7. Ball State 7-9 - Went 1-1 against 2nd seed Central Michigan
8. Western Michigan 7-9 - Def. Ohio
9. Ohio 7-9
10. Eastern Michigan 6-10 - Not dead last!
11. Toledo 5-11 - Split their series against Central Michigan
12. Northern Illinois 5-11

If thats correct, I would think that the Zips half of the bracket would be the Thursday evening sessions - All Ohio teams could be playing - BG, OU, Miami and Akron, whereas the other half could be mostly out of state teams - Central, Ball, Buffalo and then Can't. Better chance of a walk up crowd b/c of BG, Miami & OU alumun in the Clev/Akron area then the other bracket.

[MRasor0200]

That's what I have, too.http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/zips/2009/03/2856/

[GoZips88]

Any idea when we'll know game time on Tuesday ( )?

[johnnyzip84]

Any idea when we'll know game time on Tuesday ( )?

The MAC site has us playing TOLEDO at 6:00 pm on Tuesday. This is a MUCH better match-up than NIU. If we win, we play the late game on Thursday (est 9:30 pm tip off).Linky

[MRasor0200]

Wow. I completely messed this up. Fixing my blog...

[ZachTheZip]

Wow. I completely messed this up. Fixing my blog...

I don't think anybody (not even the MAC officials) knew what they were doing when figuring out the seeds.

[GP1]

To be the best, you have to beat the best.Don't worry about where we are in the brackets! We need to make it to Saturday some how, some way and win the freaking game.

[GoZips88]

Outstanding draws and times in my opinion. LOVE that I won't miss any work (or my son any school) AND that we get Toledo followed by Miami.The only down side ... Miami games are bad enough but 9:30PM??? Will DEFINITELY be drinking a large mug of coffee on the way up so I stand the best chance of staying awake!!!! Thanks for all of the updates everyone. What a crazy finish.