Rhodes Arena

[meatwad]

The problems with the stat boards? I have no idea where these people learned math, but I could do a better job with a pocket calculator and filling the stats in manually. Shooting 3 of 17 is NOT 50%.

This just baffled me. There were times when both teams were, say for example, shooting 8-16. One team it had the percentage as 50% and the other team 47%. It was goofy. It cannot be that hard to fix.I never buy concessions there so that is not much of an issue for me, but that cannot be that hard to fix either.

[Zippysgotagun]

I never buy concessions there so that is not much of an issue for me, but that cannot be that hard to fix either.

No...you just eat other people's popcorn.

[Dave in Green]

Just to add a little bit to the "we have a glorified high school gym" frustration, here's a little bit more to get you guys fired up...Back in "my time", when we were playing in the OVC, we used to compare ourselves a lot to Middle Tennessee (who now plays in the Sun Belt). Not only athletically, but in terms of facilities. They had (and still have) a basketball arena that has so much that we want.....1) The seating arrangement is a little more "rounded", which gives you a good view of the game without straining your neck.2) Chair-back seats.3) It seats 11,0004) It was built in 1973!!!!Just take a look at their athletic website, and there's a great picture under the "facilities" link. I know..something like this would be very nice. I just don't see something like this happening for us when we built something like we did only 25 years ago.

Dig a little bit deeper into the Middle Tennessee website and you'll find that the men's basketball team's average home game attendance this season in that 11,000-seat arena was 3,833 -- and that includes an announced attendance of 11,802 for a home game against Tennessee. Subtract that one game, and they averaged about the same attendance as the Zips at the JAR. So I would not hold this up as a great example of the value of a new multi-million-dollar arena investment.

[BostonZip]

A Division I caliber arena certainly has helped Xavier's program. From Sports Illustrated:"It's not one thing, but many little things that have happened over the years that have allowed success to breed here," says Mike Bobinski, the athletic director at Xavier [and former AD at Akron], which, like Gonzaga, is a small (6,700 students) Jesuit school. "We made a commitment to use basketball to build up the image of the university, and we've had to renew that commitment many times."The most visible sign of the school's all-in fervor is the Cintas Center, the 10,250-seat, $46 million arena that opened on campus in 2000. "It puts us on par with so many programs that we weren't on par with before," says [Coach Sean] Miller. "People ask: Can you win a national championship at Xavier? I think we've shown that we can compete with the teams that are winning national championships."Freshman center Kenny Frease, a 7-footer from Massillon Perry, was among the most recruited big men in the country last year, with offers from Kentucky, Indiana and Notre Dame. "I visited all those schools," Frease says, "and in the end I realized that Xavier was as big-time as any of them."SI articleXU sold out 11 of 15 homes games this season, including the entire eight-game Atlantic 10 home slate.Xavier press release

[xu9697]

By "sightlines" do we mean the track that stands right in front of 3+ rows of viewing. THAT is the #1 thing that bothers me about the JAR. It is WORSE than lights in front of the stands!!!

[Blue & Gold]

Boston Zip, thanks for the SI article.And XU, I also find the thick railing on top of the glass wall between the lower reserved sections and the track to be highly annoying. If you sit near the bottom of the upper reserved or GA sections, you've got a thick bar right in the way running from hoop-to-hoop. I always try to make sure to move high enough in those sections in order to avoid the railing.

[skip-zip]

Dave,Please point out to me where, in any way, my post about Middle Tennessee's arena was holding them up as a great example of an arena investment that increased attendance?Maybe it has helped them. Maybe it has not. I have no idea. I certainly don't have the time to look up their attendance numbers before and after the new arena, but you can feel free to do so. I was merely showing the quality of a facility from a program that was a big competitor of ours in our previous conference, for some of the younger folks who don't go back that far. However, one of the big things that caught my attention, looking back at this comparison again 25 years later, is.....If we indeed considered MTSU to be what we aspired to be in the early part of the 80s (and I firmly believe that we did).....why did we build a far "inferior" arena than the one they build 10 years earlier??Boston Zip,The Xavier/Akron comparison is a fair one. Sure, we're not a "small" university. But, there are so many other factors that are the same, and are much more relevant. We're a city school in a highly populated area, and we are not in a major conference. I think Dayton is another good example too.Now....we need to sell these finding to the folks who control the money

[Captain Kangaroo]

If we indeed considered MTSU to be what we aspired to be in the early part of the 80s (and I firmly believe that we did).....why did we build a far "inferior" arena than the one they build 10 years earlier??

Because someone was short-sighted and f*cked up.

[Hilltopper]

The problems with the stat boards? I have no idea where these people learned math, but I could do a better job with a pocket calculator and filling the stats in manually. Shooting 3 of 17 is NOT 50%.

This just baffled me. There were times when both teams were, say for example, shooting 8-16. One team it had the percentage as 50% and the other team 47%. It was goofy. It cannot be that hard to fix.I never buy concessions there so that is not much of an issue for me, but that cannot be that hard to fix either.

My guess on the Stats board would be that its ancient history as far as the hardware goes, most likely late 70's or early 80's technology that was never really a computer, but a console. No automatic calculations, nothing more than the operator putting a number in a box on a screen. It seems that its not really a priority to the folks who manage the JAR. As for the concessions, I looked into trying to make a bid to run the concessions a few years ago when I had a food and catering company. When I found out that the bidding consisted of pulling a # out of thin air and sending a check for that amount to the university as their "profit" up front, I backed away. No % of sales or other formulas, they get the $ even if you lose money as the operator. As an example, if you want the consessions for football, you would have to submit a bid for say $25k profit for UA. If you win you send in your check and then hope that the weather and a dozen other factors go your way in order to recoup your $25k before you make even $1. That why you won't see any real business running the concessions at the JAR.

[g-mann17]

If we indeed considered MTSU to be what we aspired to be in the early part of the 80s (and I firmly believe that we did).....why did we build a far "inferior" arena than the one they build 10 years earlier??

Because someone was short-sighted and f*cked up.

Because the state never wanted The University of Akron to be a "big school" and we had a bunch of yes men board members who cowtowed to the state when told they wouldn't get any extra cash to build what they wanted.

[skip-zip]

g-mann and Captain...I certainly remember some of the news at the time.I recall something that related to us supposedly getting more state funding if we added a classroom wing (I ended up having several classes there), which cut back on the size and/or amenities of the arena. I can't remember the details.Of course, the arena was a major upgrade from what we had, but I sure wish they had looked at our growth as a University at the time, and had projected where we might be a couple of decades later.

[Hilltopper]

My recollection from the time was that the JAR was scaled back in order fund the Pool across the street. A certain sate senator wanted it and if UA didn't agree, there would be no money for the JAR. I think his name is on the building.

[BirdZip]

The problems with the stat boards? I have no idea where these people learned math, but I could do a better job with a pocket calculator and filling the stats in manually. Shooting 3 of 17 is NOT 50%.

This just baffled me. There were times when both teams were, say for example, shooting 8-16. One team it had the percentage as 50% and the other team 47%. It was goofy. It cannot be that hard to fix.I never buy concessions there so that is not much of an issue for me, but that cannot be that hard to fix either.

My guess on the Stats board would be that its ancient history as far as the hardware goes, most likely late 70's or early 80's technology that was never really a computer, but a console. No automatic calculations, nothing more than the operator putting a number in a box on a screen. It seems that its not really a priority to the folks who manage the JAR. As for the concessions, I looked into trying to make a bid to run the concessions a few years ago when I had a food and catering company. When I found out that the bidding consisted of pulling a # out of thin air and sending a check for that amount to the university as their "profit" up front, I backed away. No % of sales or other formulas, they get the $ even if you lose money as the operator. As an example, if you want the consessions for football, you would have to submit a bid for say $25k profit for UA. If you win you send in your check and then hope that the weather and a dozen other factors go your way in order to recoup your $25k before you make even $1. That why you won't see any real business running the concessions at the JAR.

On the Stats board, I have to believe it's a calculation and not someone entering a number. I was trying to crack the code toward the end of the season of just how those numbers were being generated. At one point, I thought maybe the 3FG were being double counted as attempts but not makes, only on the top line, but didn't manage to verify it--ran out of games. I'm such a nerd.On the concessions, if you really do have to commit to a certain upfront UA profit, I would think then that whoever is running it would be busting their humps to maximize sales to ensure they get their profit. They're certainly not. You see this at both basketball and football--not enough people working there, lines backing up, and the one person in the booth wants to talk to their buddy who just got their hot dog. When you finally do get up there, God help you if you order more than two things--you worry about an aneurism until the worker decides to pull out the calculator. I say, hire grad students who need the money and fire them if their performance is poor. That implies the person running it actually gives a crap.

[Captain Kangaroo]

When you finally do get up there, God help you if you order more than two things--you worry about an aneurism until the worker decides to pull out the calculator.

One of my favorite concession-related stories of 2009 was Bleacher Bum's request for jalapenos with his nachos. Concessionaire reply - "We quit offering them. People complained they were too hot."Every other arena concession facility in the United States...I'm guessing there are tens-of-thousands?... has overcome the obstacle of offering jalapenos with their nachos. But at the JAR the only possible solution to a customer's complaint regarding the scoville unit of a jalapeno was to get rid of them all together.

[meatwad]

This topic has degenerated in to oblivion, but it is hilarious. That jalapeno story is priceless.

[skip-zip]

Captain....I'd call that customer service at it's best. Someone doesn't like something, just eliminate it from the menu all together I know what those darn jalapenos do to me Hilltopper....I would like to see if any of the other oldies have any more info. on the entire JAR situation. But, I would be surprised if the Nat and the JAR have any connection since they were built about 8 years apart.

[scottditzen]

I used to work at the Rubber Bowl concessions, and also at the JAR. I got by for two years eating nothing but peanut M&M's, rubber dogs, FunNacho cheese, popcorn and the rare but cherished frozen snickers bar.Don't buy the concession workers story. Take it from me, it's far more likely that one of the student employees simply stole all the jalapenos.

[Dave in Green]

Dave,Please point out to me where, in any way, my post about Middle Tennessee's arena was holding them up as a great example of an arena investment that increased attendance?Maybe it has helped them. Maybe it has not. I have no idea. I certainly don't have the time to look up their attendance numbers before and after the new arena, but you can feel free to do so. I was merely showing the quality of a facility from a program that was a big competitor of ours in our previous conference, for some of the younger folks who don't go back that far. However, one of the big things that caught my attention, looking back at this comparison again 25 years later, is.....If we indeed considered MTSU to be what we aspired to be in the early part of the 80s (and I firmly believe that we did).....why did we build a far "inferior" arena than the one they build 10 years earlier??Boston Zip,The Xavier/Akron comparison is a fair one. Sure, we're not a "small" university. But, there are so many other factors that are the same, and are much more relevant. We're a city school in a highly populated area, and we are not in a major conference. I think Dayton is another good example too.Now....we need to sell these finding to the folks who control the money

Skip, my comment was really a general one to anyone who might get the idea that MTSU's arena would be a good example to encourage similar invesment at UA. The key factor in any investment is ROI (return on investment). The key measure of an arena's ROI is BIS (butts in seats). To the best of my knowledge, no one on this forum has the time or expertise to do a thorough evaluation of all the pros and cons of a new multi-million dollar arena. But it took me only 5 minutes to click through MTSU's men's basketball stats to see they have averaged less than 4,000 fans in their 11,000-seat arena over the course of the last decade.Now, as a fan, sure I want the Zips to have a huge, magnificent basketball facility. But things could get pretty nasty among the investors if the facility they finance ends up with as many empty seats as MTSU.Xavier and Dayton are better examples of successful new arenas built around successful basketball teams with ever increasing attendance. I would expect those responsible for the UA facility to study both successful and unsuccessful arena efforts to see what works and what doesn't, and then try to determine what type and size of arena is most likely to succeed in Akron.Ideally, LeBron James would somehow be involved in this effort to have a first class basketball facility in his hometown. As long as he continues to live in and support his hometown, Akron will always have an extra dimension when it comes to basketball.

[g-mann17]

...Skip, my comment was really a general one to anyone who might get the idea that MTSU's arena would be a good example to encourage similar invesment at UA. The key factor in any investment is ROI (return on investment). The key measure of an arena's ROI is BIS (butts in seats)...

Actually the largest factor of a capital investment project such as the arena is the net present value of the investment combined with the profitability index (comparison of net present value in reation to anticipated revenue streams or ROI). The comparison you make with MTSU is attendance now of a building that is 36 years old. That really wouldn't be a very good comparison. You would need to look at attendance during the first 5 years of operation and compare whether the investment was covered and profitable. Also you look at it from soley an attendance stand point. Truthfully speaking revenue streams are generated from attendance, leasing, concessions, and tax. Revenue streams for the project mentioned would also include secondary streams such as hospitality taxes (hotel stays) and sales tax generated from people dining in the area or shopping pre-game. Not to mention that the bottom line for revenue for any university is increased enrollment. If you don't believe that improved facilities make an impact on enrollment, then you haven't been paying attention to the University for the last 10 years.You keep looking at solely a University of Akron arena. The majority of people on here look at a joint investment to offset costs and maximize revenue streams. You see lack of attendance as a hinderance, I see lack of attendance as a sign. The product is quality, has been for a while, the truth is no one (other than hardcore fans) wants to go to a high school gym and be uncomfortable for 2 hours. When people make a decision to go out they want the biggest bang for their buck. They want convenient concessions and restroom access, they want the option to go out to eat before hand so they don't have to drop 30 dollars on 2 hot dogs and a coke. The JAR is accessible by one parking lot and a nice parking deck. There are no pedestrian stops (ie stores or restaurants) along the way to make a bitter cold December/January walk worth it for people who aren't hardcore fans.

[MDZip]

Captain....I'd call that customer service at it's best. Someone doesn't like something, just eliminate it from the menu all together I know what those darn jalapenos do to me Hilltopper....I would like to see if any of the other oldies have any more info. on the entire JAR situation. But, I would be surprised if the Nat and the JAR have any connection since they were built about 8 years apart.

I was part of the student government at the time the JAR was built. We even discovered the name James A Rhodes arena in the architectural drawings and that raised a bit of stnk too until we were told that was pretty much the only way the arena was getting built, otherwise we were going to be stuck with Memorial Hall. Since this would have left us with Memorial right when we were moving to D-1, I think we really didn't have much of a choice. it was a huge upgrade over what we had. I don't think it had anything to do with the Natatorium.

[Dave in Green]

Thanks, g-mann17, for reinforcing my point that there are many variables and detailed factors that we fans do not have the time to research nor the expertise to professionally evaluate. For example, MTSU's home attendace was readily available for the last decade, but not for the first 25 years of the facility. So while the numbers I posted have some relevance, they are far from complete. One might ask what kind of attendance increase MTSU would get if they built a new, state-of-the-art, 11,000-seat arena to replace their 36-year-old one, as well as what the effect on attendance might be if they built the new one in a different location. As I said, lots of variables requiring lots of research and evaluation.I've also said in this thread that it doesn't matter to me which location is selected, so I'm obviously not just looking at solely a UA arena. If a downtown arena in partnership with the City of Akron and/or others works better for everyone than the current UA location, I'm fine with that. To avoid misunderstanding, I'll stop referring to it as a UA arena and just call it generically a new Akron arena.

[flipthezip]

They did place classrooms in the JAR so that they would be able to use certain earmarked funds toward the buidling since it had a designated % of educational purpose. I believe it is also happening with the new stadium.As for the changing and scaling back of the JAR, it did occur and really screwed the place up. Did anyone ever wonder why the first couple rows of stand are unused. Or why the track around the top is not a full 1/10 of a mile in circumference. The measurements for the interior layout were off in the construction after all the adjustments and cutbacks.Something similar happened with the Natatorium in the laying of the pool. I recall they had to do it twice because it didn't measure right for NCAA or Olympic standards.

[scottditzen]

I am so thankful that those days of half-assedness are behind us.

They did place classrooms in the JAR so that they would be able to use certain earmarked funds toward the buidling since it had a designated % of educational purpose. I believe it is also happening with the new stadium.As for the changing and scaling back of the JAR, it did occur and really screwed the place up. Did anyone ever wonder why the first couple rows of stand are unused. Or why the track around the top is not a full 1/10 of a mile in circumference. The measurements for the interior layout were off in the construction after all the adjustments and cutbacks.Something similar happened with the Natatorium in the laying of the pool. I recall they had to do it twice because it didn't measure right for NCAA or Olympic standards.

[UADavid]

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8063.newhttp://www.akronnewsnow.com/print.asp?ID=8766I knew I remembered this properly. Quaker Square purchase creates agreement with CoA.

[Buckzip]

Maybe they should have changed them to Jalapeno......on a stick...