Downtown Arena might not be such a good idea

[ZachTheZip]

... In Kalamazoohttp://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/200..._wmus_move.html

[g-mann17]

... In Kalamazoohttp://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/200..._wmus_move.html

From their closest quad it is a 1.5 mile walk (if the sidewalk infrastructure is there)For us from the farthest quad away it is half that distance. (to the theoretical proposed site)

[MDZip]

Interestingly, the distance between their current and proposed arenas is almost exactly the same as ours, a little over a mile difference. The biggest difference though is the majority of our campus lies bewteen the two sites while the majority of theirs is all to one side. We'd still have a little better situation in my opinion.

[Blue & Gold]

Our situation would be far superior, especially if we can encorporate the Mayflower into the equation. If there were some way for us to convert the Mayflower into dormitory space, not only would we rid the area of some shady types (and that's putting it kindly), but we would also have quite a presence right on Main Street - with the Polsky building to the north and the new student apartments (though privately owned) to the south.Main Street would run, from north-to-south: Polsky, Mayflower, Nike/LeBron Arena, student apartments. Nice block of activity!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Yet, the hard truth is that off-campus sporting events don't draw students.There is no campus shuttle or marketing campaign that will ever solve this.

I wish this guy was our AD 25 years ago!!

[ksu sucks]

Our situation would be far superior, especially if we can encorporate the Mayflower into the equation. If there were some way for us to convert the Mayflower into dormitory space, not only would we rid the area of some shady types (and that's putting it kindly), but we would also have quite a presence right on Main Street - with the Polsky building to the north and the new student apartments (though privately owned) to the south.Main Street would run, from north-to-south: Polsky, Mayflower, Nike/LeBron Arena, student apartments. Nice block of activity!

Wow, it's really exciting thinking about what that area could become. Could you imagine being a student there? Across the street from the Akron Aeros and next to the new arena and all the bars downtown. That kind of student experience would be one unique to Akron, at least as far as Ohio is concerned.The quicker the university makes a move, the better. Who knows what could happen to that lot in the next few years. Urban campuses are always hurting for room to expand, and this is a chance if there ever was one. Another thought: The university could but up some adjacent lots to add a home for the new Bioinnovation Institute. After all, its been over a year since it's announcement and it's still homeless.

[Dave in Green]

Off campus is a pretty broad term. A few steps away from the edge of the campus is essentially the same as on campus.

[Zipsrifle]

I've only been to WMU once for a football game, but that distance to downtown from Campus seems like it would be quite a hike for them. I don't see that in our case. We used to walk downtown quite often so I think our case is a little bit different.

[ZachTheZip]

One good point made on the WMU board was that stadiums and arenas fail when they're too far from a highway. Right now, the JAR is right next to Route 8 with only one way to get to it. If it was moved downtown, it would be surrounded by major roads and highways on all sides. Access would be much easier. Kind of like the football stadium compared to where the Rubber Bowl was; the RB was out there with 224 being the only major way to get there while the new stadium is much easier to get to.

[GP1]

I'd be interested to know the parties involved in building a downtown bb arena. If it is joint venture with the City, no thanks. They need a bb arena, not a multi-purpose arena that is a horrible place to watch a game. If it is heaping more bond debt on top of the bonds they sold for InfoCision Stadium, no thanks. If the Univeristy can not support what it currently has. The State could one day have to take over the University, no thanks. I know the JAR is awful, but too bad. I don't want to have degrees from The University of General Motors. When a city runs out of ideas on how to develop economically, they throw out building yet another stadium. I would say IF they are deciding to do this in Akron.....think harder.

[Class of 82]

Quite a while ago-- mid-90s, I think-- I seem to remember there were some Akron movers and shakers musing about a Carrier Dome-type facility downtown that could house both UA football and basketball and also serve as extra exhibit hall space for conventions brought in by the Knight Center, and as a venue for entertainment events. Given the multiple uses, it was thought that funding could be shared among UA, the city and Summit County with some possible assistance from the state and federal governments.If done right (and a big "if" it was), I think they were onto a pretty good, even if really expensive, idea. Obviously, though, the idea never got anywhere, and it certainly won't in the future now that Info is a reality. (And just speaking for football, Info is a lot better than any dome would be... by far.)As for basketball, personally, I'd be relatively happy if they could just reconfigure the JAR to get rid of that idiotic and needless jogging track that ruins sightlines from the upper level and minimizes the intimidation factor of a larger crowd. I don't know if that would add any more seating, but it could be a big improvement, IMO. Probably not feasible, though. Oh well.In any case, I'm guessing the JAR will be basketball's home for the foreseeable future.

[g-mann17]

In any case, I'm guessing the JAR will be basketball's home for the foreseeable future.

Hmm, in 2005-2006 did anyone foresee any place other than the Rubber Bowl being football's home?

[Quickzips]

In any case, I'm guessing the JAR will be basketball's home for the foreseeable future.

Hmm, in 2005-2006 did anyone foresee any place other than the Rubber Bowl being football's home?

I got here in 2003 and there was already talk of a stadium to replace the Rubber Bowl. The feeling then wasn't a matter of if it was going to happen but a matter of when. The handwriting has been on the wall of the Rubber Bowl (along with various other messages that probably shouldn't be repeated here) for quite some time.

[Class of 82]

In any case, I'm guessing the JAR will be basketball's home for the foreseeable future.

Hmm, in 2005-2006 did anyone foresee any place other than the Rubber Bowl being football's home?

True enough, g-mann. True enough.I don't put anything past Luis Proenza, John LaGuardia and Ted Curtis. Those guys have worked wonders. Norm Auburn certainly created The University of Akron, but the truly incredible leadership and talent of those three men have re-created it... quite literally.

[Dave in Green]

A lot of it comes down to thorough benchmarking. There are hundreds of different facilities across the country to evaluate and see what works and what doesn't. There are many multipurpose facilities designed for basketball and other events. You'd want to benchmark the best of them to see if the best multipurpose facility is close enough to the best facility optimized for basketball and see if the difference is small enough that you could live with the compromises if it resulted in finding partners to help get it built if the money isn't there for UA without a partner.As far as location, most universities are not located as close to the center of a large city as UA. But there are still quite a few to benchmark, so there's no excuse for repeating the mistakes that have been made by others in building too far from the campus and not within easy walking distance.Research the best facilities and the optimum locations, and then do your best to replicate the best within whatever budget you can muster. There will never be universal agreement on what is "best," so you just have to try to get as close as you can to something that will please most of the people most of the time.

[Jake]

Our situation would be far superior, especially if we can encorporate the Mayflower into the equation. If there were some way for us to convert the Mayflower into dormitory space, not only would we rid the area of some shady types (and that's putting it kindly), but we would also have quite a presence right on Main Street - with the Polsky building to the north and the new student apartments (though privately owned) to the south.Main Street would run, from north-to-south: Polsky, Mayflower, Nike/LeBron Arena, student apartments. Nice block of activity!

Wow, it's really exciting thinking about what that area could become. Could you imagine being a student there? Across the street from the Akron Aeros and next to the new arena and all the bars downtown. That kind of student experience would be one unique to Akron, at least as far as Ohio is concerned.The quicker the university makes a move, the better. Who knows what could happen to that lot in the next few years. Urban campuses are always hurting for room to expand, and this is a chance if there ever was one. Another thought: The university could but up some adjacent lots to add a home for the new Bioinnovation Institute. After all, its been over a year since it's announcement and it's still homeless.

Only 200 - 300 students in the downtown, off-campus, privately owned apartments. Hardly a reason to get all excited about UA creating a hopping, downtown off-campus area, especially when it has its true campus 1/4 of a mile west with almost 4,000 and soon-to-be 5,000 students living there. I'm all for partying but let's face it UA should not be investing in an area that is off-campus for the sake of students' need to get high. Main Street is not on campus nor should it ever be. UA will shoot itself in the foot if it builds an arena downtown/off-campus or across from Quaker Square. The Polsky Building is nothing more than a "parking place" for departments waiting for a true campus facility to be built. It hardly justifies calling downtown "on campus". And a parking deck? I think that explains itself.You want students to come to the arena? You want UA basketball to excel? You want UA to build even more prestige, pride and on-campus excitement and energy? It's a no-brainer. Build a UA arena conspicuously on campus and DO NOT involve the city in its cost, ownership or operations. UA can afford it. UA is worthy of it. A thriving university campus makes a thriving city and region and not just a downtown area.

[ZachTheZip]

Jake, look at a map of campus and tell me exactly where such an arena could be built. The only option without removing existing buildings or the brand-new grass area by the soccer field is on the outskirts of campus by Quaker Square. Even if they tear down the JAR right after basketball season, the new one couldn't be built in time for the start of winter sports the following year.The football stadium was built on the outskirts of campus, and we had to tear down a neighborhood to make room for it. All the new dorms being built are on the outskirts, too. It expands the campus. By building an arena and one or two other buildings outside the central campus, is actually expands the school footprint. It may not be in the middle of campus now, but once it's built it would be as much on campus as the football stadium or the new Exchange dorms.

[zipper]

I want to know what Dambrot wants. My hunch is he wants it on campus, and his thoughts should be considered. It has to be incredibly easy for students to get there - look, did we not learn our lesson, ala the Rubber Bowl?

[g-mann17]

I want to know what Dambrot wants. My hunch is he wants it on campus, and his thoughts should be considered. It has to be incredibly easy for students to get there - look, did we not learn our lesson, ala the Rubber Bowl?

I don't think anyone has mentioned a site that would be "ala the Rubber Bowl". Most sites have either been near Quaker (part of campus) or near Polsky/CBA. Anyone that doesn't feel that High and Broadway are part of campus should ask some of the business majors and MBA program members because we certainly feel like we are on campus. I don't think anyone has proposed a site that is over half a mile away from the Student Center. We aren't talking "lets build this thing by the Civic, of Childrens, or Akron General". It's always been, "let's build it by Polsky, CBA, or Quaker."I think Dambrot wants something he can show off, and I think he wants to know that he has a high quality training facility for his team. That is part of the reason the JAR will probably stay no matter what happens. The school will need the additional facility for sports programs. That is one of the major concerns with a new facility not being run by UA. The men's basketball team is the primary reason for the facility, and therefore should have first say on when they have it. But, like football, it's more convenient to have multiple training areas. The JAR is still a great court even if the fan experience is lacking.Again, I don't really care as long as it get's built, I just talk about what I feel is practical. And it's easier to sell naming rights if a company feels the entire community will support a project. We are not always going to luck out and have an alumni in charge at the company we ask for money. With naming rights and splitting the bonds three ways, the project becomes more feasible.

[Jake]

Our situation would be far superior, especially if we can encorporate the Mayflower into the equation. If there were some way for us to convert the Mayflower into dormitory space, not only would we rid the area of some shady types (and that's putting it kindly), but we would also have quite a presence right on Main Street - with the Polsky building to the north and the new student apartments (though privately owned) to the south.Main Street would run, from north-to-south: Polsky, Mayflower, Nike/LeBron Arena, student apartments. Nice block of activity!

The student apartments will hold less than 300 students when complete. Contrast this with 4,000 to 5000 UA students livung on campus. The activity isn't downtown. It's on the campus where the arena needs to be. Also, lets end this fallacy about downtown being on campus, Here is a quote from the Beacon regarding an interview with UA's president: "The joke is, the university is swallowing downtown. Not exactly. Rather, Proenza sees the critical role of collaboration, the university serving as an engine for the regional economy, whether through the transformation of University Park or the development of the BioInnovation Institute, the marrying of polymer materials and orthopedics into new products, procedures and prosperity."

[Jake]

I want to know what Dambrot wants. My hunch is he wants it on campus, and his thoughts should be considered. It has to be incredibly easy for students to get there - look, did we not learn our lesson, ala the Rubber Bowl?

I don't think anyone has mentioned a site that would be "ala the Rubber Bowl". Most sites have either been near Quaker (part of campus) or near Polsky/CBA. Anyone that doesn't feel that High and Broadway are part of campus should ask some of the business majors and MBA program members because we certainly feel like we are on campus. I don't think anyone has proposed a site that is over half a mile away from the Student Center. We aren't talking "lets build this thing by the Civic, of Childrens, or Akron General". It's always been, "let's build it by Polsky, CBA, or Quaker."I think Dambrot wants something he can show off, and I think he wants to know that he has a high quality training facility for his team. That is part of the reason the JAR will probably stay no matter what happens. The school will need the additional facility for sports programs. That is one of the major concerns with a new facility not being run by UA. The men's basketball team is the primary reason for the facility, and therefore should have first say on when they have it. But, like football, it's more convenient to have multiple training areas. The JAR is still a great court even if the fan experience is lacking.Again, I don't really care as long as it get's built, I just talk about what I feel is practical. And it's easier to sell naming rights if a company feels the entire community will support a project. We are not always going to luck out and have an alumni in charge at the company we ask for money. With naming rights and splitting the bonds three ways, the project becomes more feasible.

High and Broadway are not part of the campus. Now stop the lies.

[g-mann17]

High and Broadway are not part of the campus. Now stop the lies.

Seriously? Next you're going to tell me that Mill St. Isn't part of campus.But it's cool. There's just 2500 students that don't park in a campus parking deck everyday or go a campus building to attend classes on campus. Nope CBA and Polsky are completely off campus, just like EJ Thomas even though it's right across the street from it. And there's no important University things in those buildings, not like Bliss Institute or University of Akron Archives or anything.Seriously? You have to be just playing around with me, to see how I defend my opinion, that's got to be it right, you can't possibly be so dillusional to think I'm sitting here lieing, or trolling or whatever. But if not, I'm sure you'll be calling me a lieing troll trying to sell snake oil soon enoughAnyhow I...

[g-mann17]

"The joke is, the university is swallowing downtown. Not exactly. Rather, Proenza sees the critical role of collaboration, the university serving as an engine for the regional economy, whether through the transformation of University Park or the development of the BioInnovation Institute, the marrying of polymer materials and orthopedics into new products, procedures and prosperity."

Yeah what he meant by the comment is that University isn't just taking over downtown. Which it's not. It's a neighbor and part of downtown, even the University Park Alliance recognized the importance of developing around the central business district.By the way, there are only 2800 students that live in University residence halls "on campus" not 5000 like you claim. Spend sometime reading all the comments on the board and you'll see we had this discussion already.

[Jake]

Jake, look at a map of campus and tell me exactly where such an arena could be built. The only option without removing existing buildings or the brand-new grass area by the soccer field is on the outskirts of campus by Quaker Square. Even if they tear down the JAR right after basketball season, the new one couldn't be built in time for the start of winter sports the following year.The football stadium was built on the outskirts of campus, and we had to tear down a neighborhood to make room for it. All the new dorms being built are on the outskirts, too. It expands the campus. By building an arena and one or two other buildings outside the central campus, is actually expands the school footprint. It may not be in the middle of campus now, but once it's built it would be as much on campus as the football stadium or the new Exchange dorms.

Downtown will never look "on-campus" like the outskirts to the west will/do. It is meant to be a downtown. You will always have major vehicular traffic driving through it. We can't close off main downtown streets like we did with Buchtel and Carroll. Also, UA administrators never once expressed concern that there is no room on campus for a new arena. The land to the east of the stadium is large enough for an arena. It would border Spicer, Vine, Goodkirk and E. Exchange. UA owns some of that property already and it plans to get the rest. That would place the arena on the outskirts in a way that expands the campus and do so in an uninterrupted manner. Downtown is interrupted unless some of the shysters on this site want to claim St. Bernard Church as a UA campus facility. Maybe they can have Dr. Proenza as the main celebrant for Mass one SundayAlso, the area to the east of the Nat, Rec Center and Filed House is another great location. It would take out the 3 parking lots and butt up to the new dorms. The arena doesn't have to be in the middle of campus. It just needs to be on the campus and not on someone's absurd fantasy of where the campus is.Also, the campus owns two large fingers of land starting south of east exchange and beyond Buchtel Field and it will eventually take out much of that entire neighborhood. A new arena can be built just east of the Exchange Street DormsThere are plenty of campus/potential campus locations for a new arena. Build it and they will come and they will enroll. An on-campus arena will have a very positive effect on the success of our men's basketball team and much more so than a downtown arena. Lets stop being can't do and take pride in UA and its GROWING campus.

[Jake]

High and Broadway are not part of the campus. Now stop the lies.

Seriously? Next you're going to tell me that Mill St. Isn't part of campus.But it's cool. There's just 2500 students that don't park in a campus parking deck everyday or go a campus building to attend classes on campus. Nope CBA and Polsky are completely off campus, just like EJ Thomas even though it's right across the street from it. And there's no important University things in those buildings, not like Bliss Institute or University of Akron Archives or anything.Seriously? You have to be just playing around with me, to see how I defend my opinion, that's got to be it right, you can't possibly be so dillusional to think I'm sitting here lieing, or trolling or whatever. But if not, I'm sure you'll be calling me a lieing troll trying to sell snake oil soon enoughAnyhow I...

Polsky is only on campus in letter. Thomas Hall is on campus in letter and spirit. Polsky was built by a private developer and Thomas Hall was built directly on campus by its original and current owner, The University of Akron. Polsky does not make downtown on campus. It's just a repurposed department store. It's one thing for UA to buy an existing and delapidated building like Polsky or Quaker Square and repurpose it. It is quite another for UA to build a brand new sorely needed $80,000 arena off campus. It would be another version of the Rubber Bowl even if it is closer. Just being closer to campus doesn't make it on campus. and again IT WON'T LOOK LIKE IT'S ON CAMPUS and you won't get that same game day excitement that you will get from an on-campus arena.