Three Positives Coming Out of Today

[Dr Z]

We should just run a penalty killing line with Zeke, Humpty, Bardo and McNees. Short handed goals galore!

[ZachTheZip]

We should just run a penalty killing line with Zeke, Humpty, Bardo and McNees. Short handed goals galore!

Yeah. Get the other team to foul out all their starters.

[Dave in Green]

All civil forums have rules against such fundamental things as trolling, personal attacks and making derogatory remarks related to race and religion. It's the duty of moderators to enforce those rules by issuing warnings and penalties to those who cross the line. When the moderators are lax in rules enforcement, the unruly become emboldened. The cumulative effect of ever more questionable posts that are allowed by the moderators to stand makes any forum a less friendly place for all.Public criticism is ineffective against posters who believe they are so great that they can say or do no wrong. If someone breaks the rules, they should be dealt with in a fair and reasonable manner according to the rules that apply to all. Sometimes that's a tough judgment call that moderators need the wisdom and fortitude to deal with promptly and appropriately before the situation degenerates.Wikipedia has a good definition to help both moderators and forum members isolate the troublemakers:A troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.If forum members personally believe that someone is consistently breaking the fundamental rules of civility, and for whatever reason the moderators choose not to take appropriate action, each of us has the freedom to add that poster to our Ignored Users list and make that poster cease to exist.

[RACER]

i have to agree with the other poster in that gp just stirs the pot.he waits for akron to lose on game, and then comes inattacking k.d.when the zips start winning then you disapper.you never have anything good to say about k.d. or the team.unfortunately more people than just me have seen this pattern.zips win -you run and hide.they lose one game and the k.d. is a bad coach ect.ect.ect. if akron starts winning a few games you will hide for ahwile.if they lose to n.c. state you will say kd needs to go.for some reason you do not like k.d. i am not sure what the reason is, but it seems to be personell.

[RACER]

i have to agree with the other poster in that gp just stirs the pot.he waits for akron to lose on game, and then comes inattacking k.d.when the zips start winning then you disapper.you never have anything good to say about k.d. or the team.unfortunately more people than just me have seen this pattern.zips win -you run and hide.they lose one game and the k.d. is a bad coach ect.ect.ect. if akron starts winning a few games you will hide for ahwile.if they lose to n.c. state you will say kd needs to go.for some reason you do not like k.d. i am not sure what the reason is, but it seems to be personell.

[UAZip0510]

i have to agree with the other poster in that gp just stirs the pot.he waits for akron to lose on game, and then comes inattacking k.d.when the zips start winning then you disapper.you never have anything good to say about k.d. or the team.unfortunately more people than just me have seen this pattern.zips win -you run and hide.they lose one game and the k.d. is a bad coach ect.ect.ect. if akron starts winning a few games you will hide for ahwile.if they lose to n.c. state you will say kd needs to go.for some reason you do not like k.d. i am not sure what the reason is, but it seems to be personell.

He is entitled to his opinion, is he not? I like GP, and think he brings a lot to the forum, even if I don't agree with him 100% of the time.

[zipsbandman]

I go on the football board and the sky is falling. I come here and the sky is falling. Chill fans or better yet drink some of that zips kool-aid that most of you get high on when things go our way. We lost a meaningless game. If you ask me, we absolutely needed to lose that game. They're human. I know I'd still be hung over from dancing the year before. We get very excited about that stuff playing in the MAC. In college, we know a thing or two about hangovers. But now they know and more importantly their coaches (who will pound it in their heads) know they can be beat and if they put the effort they put in yesterday they will be plastered. This team will be ready to play in March. These nonconference games....they're fun but don't take them so seriously.

[GP1]

i have to agree with the other poster in that gp just stirs the pot.he waits for akron to lose on game, and then comes inattacking k.d.when the zips start winning then you disapper.you never have anything good to say about k.d. or the team.unfortunately more people than just me have seen this pattern.zips win -you run and hide.they lose one game and the k.d. is a bad coach ect.ect.ect. if akron starts winning a few games you will hide for ahwile.if they lose to n.c. state you will say kd needs to go.for some reason you do not like k.d. i am not sure what the reason is, but it seems to be personell.

I would encourage you to go read many of my posts this year on how proud I was of the team and the great future they have in front of them with Zeke and many of the other good players they have on the team.

[GP1]

He is entitled to his opinion, is he not? I like GP, and think he brings a lot to the forum, even if I don't agree with him 100% of the time.

Thanks UAZip0510. To the point, the answer is "no". The point of Zip Watcher's post was to not just blast me, but send a point out to anyone who might disagree with him and his line of thinking.

[you am i]

He is entitled to his opinion, is he not? I like GP, and think he brings a lot to the forum, even if I don't agree with him 100% of the time.

Thanks UAZip0510. To the point, the answer is "no". The point of Zip Watcher's post was to not just blast me, but send a point out to anyone who might disagree with him and his line of thinking.

I did not read his post that way at all.

[The Hip Zip]

Screw the other crap, start and give the bulk of the guard minutes to Steve and Humpty and we weill be fine. I am also inclined to give Conyers a few more minutes at the 3/4 to see if he can lock down some scorers.

[GP1]

He is entitled to his opinion, is he not? I like GP, and think he brings a lot to the forum, even if I don't agree with him 100% of the time.

Thanks UAZip0510. To the point, the answer is "no". The point of Zip Watcher's post was to not just blast me, but send a point out to anyone who might disagree with him and his line of thinking.

I did not read his post that way at all.

how did you read it? what would cause such a severe response to a pretty harmless post? keep in mind, zw is a moderator.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

If you look closely, you'll see that at any given time, the Zips Nation consists of about 15-30 active posters, more or less. It's my opinion that all of those posters keep this place vital and interesting. GP1, I find you annoying as hell sometimes, and to learn that you are at least a couple years younger than me, when you post as if you are the most learned and saltiest dog ever, well, you're full of crap and I'll never let you forget it. BUT, I sometimes love what you post and always find your observations interesting and worth reading and chewing on. Likewise, Zip Watcher is the board Mommy, nannying all of us about bad words and name calling, but makes great points and I give him and the other mods credit for taking the time and energy that it takes to police these boards. Hey, when the man pulls you over, you hate the man, but he's just doing his job, so you cut him a break and recalibrate.So where am I on this little blow out? First, KD, get your head out of your rectum and get this team to win. NOW. We love you but that loss sucked badly. Shame on you, your staff and this team. Get it right. No coach-speak, just win bro. Second, I find that my normal days include checking in on ZN, even when traveling. We argue, we bicker, but we've chosen a hard lot, and that is fanship in the one of the lowest life forms forms of collegiate sport. In the end, we can all be douches (not a bad word since you can buy them on grocery shelves--no warnings please), but we really only have each other in this fanhood of pain. So, GP1 it's all good. Zip Watcher, it's all good. Go Zips.

[MDZip]

Good god - See Tee as the voice of reason - up is down, left is right, I may have to go root for Can't State.

[Dave in Green]

Maybe we can change the title of this thread to Four Positives Coming Out of Today, and all come to a positive agreement that no one posting in these forums is all good or all bad. We're all human with different balances of positives and negatives. We all see things a little differently. Someone whose posts sometimes (not necessarily always) appear to one forum member to be textbook examples of trolling may strike others differently.That's why foruns need firm, fair, objective moderators. They need to stay out of the occasional firefights that break out here and focus on behind-the-scenes fixing of what causes firefights. By definition, the act of trolling is a deliberate manipulation of people's emotions with the intention of starting a fight. A troll doesn't always make trolling posts. A good troll will play regular guy for awhile, and "innocently" drop the occasional troll bomb to get the forum buzzing. It's only over time that the pattern becomes clear, and every one of us leaves a trail of posts on forums that can be tracked back and analyzed by anyone.A good moderator should be able to spot the pattern developing and issue private warnings. Often a single private warning will resolve the problem, because the person really wasn't a serial troll, but just someone who was inadvertently using tactics that trolls use. I think we are all at least occasionally guilty of being somewhat trollish. But it's up to the moderators to pick out the serial troublemakers, privately give them fair warning of what they are doing wrong, and ask them to please correct that behavior or leave the forum.The last thing we want to do is get into personal warfare over trolling on ZN where we all pick sides and come out shooting at each other. That's precisely the goal of trolling, and we don't want to contribute to that.No, it's up to the moderators to resolve trolling issues behind the scenes, quietly and privately, only with those individuals who the moderators believe fit the pattern of frequent trollish behavior.

[Zip Watcher]

Some brief clarifications:#1. And I think this one is very important: I don't consider GP1 a troll. Never have .. never will. There have been a few dispatched from ZN.O lately .. but in my view, GP1 is NOT a troll. He's a Zips fan. One of the loyal ones.#2. My intent in the original post, was to ask GP1 a question. Which way does he want it? It remains unanswered. It was not to be a slam, and frankly, I'm surprised he took it that way.GP1 is fond of needling the folks he calls "builders" and refers often to the "building conspiracy." This is generally in reference to those of us here who recognize the progress that the hoops team has made over the last 5 season. Some of us see that KD has a vision for Zips hoops .. he thinks we're conspiracy theorists. His post citing Bill from WF radio illustrated (in my view) some contradiction on GP1's part: Teams that lose early will lose late? .. last season the Zips lost early and won late .. I think the point is BS, and I pointed that out.Don't read too much into this .. I think several people are. I just posted an observation on his behavior .. and what I see as him contradicting himself .. much in the same manner he is free to point out to others, and periodically does so. He didn't like my analogy and observations .. so be it. We move on.Go Zips!

[Dr Z]

He didn't like my analogy and observations .. so be it. We move on.

Somebody that's willing to take the high road and has a thick skin on a sports forum?

[GP1]

you're full of crap and I'll never let you forget it. BUT, I sometimes love what you post and always find your observations interesting and worth reading and chewing on.

Didn't your parents ever tell you to watch what you put in your mouth?

[GP1]

Some brief clarifications:#1. And I think this one is very important: I don't consider GP1 a troll. Never have .. never will. There have been a few dispatched from ZN.O lately .. but in my view, GP1 is NOT a troll. He's a Zips fan. One of the loyal ones.#2. My intent in the original post, was to ask GP1 a question. Which way does he want it? It remains unanswered. It was not to be a slam, and frankly, I'm surprised he took it that way.GP1 is fond of needling the folks he calls "builders" and refers often to the "building conspiracy." This is generally in reference to those of us here who recognize the progress that the hoops team has made over the last 5 season. Some of us see that KD has a vision for Zips hoops .. he thinks we're conspiracy theorists. His post citing Bill from WF radio illustrated (in my view) some contradiction on GP1's part: Teams that lose early will lose late? .. last season the Zips lost early and won late .. I think the point is BS, and I pointed that out.Don't read too much into this .. I think several people are. I just posted an observation on his behavior .. and what I see as him contradicting himself .. much in the same manner he is free to point out to others, and periodically does so. He didn't like my analogy and observations .. so be it. We move on.Go Zips!

Apology accepted.

[Dave in Green]

Some brief clarifications:#1. And I think this one is very important: I don't consider GP1 a troll. Never have .. never will. There have been a few dispatched from ZN.O lately .. but in my view, GP1 is NOT a troll. He's a Zips fan. One of the loyal ones. .....

Very important, indeed. It's always helpful for forum members to understand how a forum is run. Every forum has different rules and different levels of enforcement. A forum member who doesn't understand the rules and how the moderators enforce them can get in trouble without knowing they've done something wrong. Now we all know that initiating a thread on a sports forum like ZN with the sole purpose of smearing the Amish religion is not considered by the moderators to be trolling, as long as the poster is a loyal Zips fan. Thanks for the clarification on how ZN operates.

[Zip Watcher]

Now we all know that initiating a thread on a sports forum like ZN with the sole purpose of smearing the Amish religion is not considered by the moderators to be trolling, as long as the poster is a loyal Zips fan. Thanks for the clarification on how ZN operates.

Ok, Dave .. I ask that you re-read the first post in that thread, and consider your sentence above. The Great GP1 was recommending that the Nation check out a band that he ran into at an event / venue. He added a comment to it about an opinion .. and the rest is history. But the sole purpose? Latitude exists here within reason .. and things like this are typically handled by the members, not the Moderators. Several people said their peace in that thread, and in our view it was handled. The probing in the thread illuminated the Great GP1's mindset on the Amish.Many times things are stricken by the Moderators .. we have a trash bin full to prove it.Go Zips!

[vmd9]

One of the points he made this season about why Wake was losing close games late in the year is that they lost close games early in the year. If a team doesn't execute and win close games early, they will never learn how to win late in the season.

Personally, I like hearing parallels from other teams & other fans .. plus Winston Salem is a great town.However, it sounds to me like Bill needs to hang up his headset. If you don't win early .. you'll never win late? Has there never been a Wake team that improved over the course of a season? Really?I say BS. You certainly don't want to drift into and keep reinforcing bad habits .. but last year's Zips team is a perfect example of a team that wasn't good early, improved upon its weaknesses, and put it together when it counted .. which is at the END of the season, not the beginning.Go Zips!! B) B)

To be fair last year we played bad for most of the year and got lucky at the end. I mean we had to beat an awful Toledo team in overtime with two buzzer beaters to move on to the SECOND round of the MAC tourney. To me the team I watched on Sunday was just like what I'm used to seeing from the Zips. I know everyone on here thinks we are going to have another MAC championship, but I see a disappointing year. Still sticking with my prediction of 10-4 0r 9-5 when we enter MAC Play...

[RACER]

playing bad for the most of the year gets you 23 wins? that has to be one of the dumbest statements i have ever heard.the problem is zip nation is now spoiled by the programs success.the same fans who thought jd needed a 6-6 record to keep his job think we played bad for the most part in b-ball.kd early sucess has casued some of the fans to lose perspective.somehow we still have football coach who is going on losing season number 4.we lose one game in b-ball and everybody says the sky is falling with gp leading the way.i can count on one hand the number of times gp has said anything good aboutkd.that's why his post are not taken seriously by me, and some other zips nation memebers.if we lose to n.c. state he willbe right back on here ripping the team,and k.d.

[Dave in Green]

Now we all know that initiating a thread on a sports forum like ZN with the sole purpose of smearing the Amish religion is not considered by the moderators to be trolling, as long as the poster is a loyal Zips fan. Thanks for the clarification on how ZN operates.

Ok, Dave .. I ask that you re-read the first post in that thread, and consider your sentence above. The Great GP1 was recommending that the Nation check out a band that he ran into at an event / venue. He added a comment to it about an opinion .. and the rest is history. But the sole purpose? Latitude exists here within reason .. and things like this are typically handled by the members, not the Moderators. Several people said their peace in that thread, and in our view it was handled. The probing in the thread illuminated the Great GP1's mindset on the Amish.Many times things are stricken by the Moderators .. we have a trash bin full to prove it.Go Zips!

I re-read the first and subsequent posts several times before responding in that thread or here. The dislike of Amish was featured in the thread's first sentence before the band was mentioned, not the other way around. Within 2 hours, dislike of the Amish became "hate." And it went downhill from there, which was entirely predictable.I also read earlier posts by the same person trashing a different religious group. A pattern of posting gratuitous hate messages about different religions on a sports forum certainly fits the classic definition of trolling. Many of the best-run internet forums do not allow any religious discussion, let alone overt hate posts, because religious discussion has proven over time to be one of the most emotional and divisive issues that can absolutely rip a forum community apart. Initiating attacks on religious beliefs is a time-proven method of provoking other forum members.Intent is hard to prove, so no one will ever know for certain what thought processes led to that series of hateful posts on ZN about different religions. But it's well known that those types of posts are extremely offensive to the fundamental beliefs of many. A pattern of similar posts suggests deliberate, not inadvertent, provocation. And that leads back to the classic definition of trolling. It's all about manipulation.I appreciate the good work of the moderators in filling the ZN trashbin with the obvious trash. But ZN would be an even friendlier place for all if there was zero tolerance for expressions of hatred for such things as religions, ethnic groups, etc.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Now we all know that initiating a thread on a sports forum like ZN with the sole purpose of smearing the Amish religion is not considered by the moderators to be trolling, as long as the poster is a loyal Zips fan. Thanks for the clarification on how ZN operates.

Ok, Dave .. I ask that you re-read the first post in that thread, and consider your sentence above. The Great GP1 was recommending that the Nation check out a band that he ran into at an event / venue. He added a comment to it about an opinion .. and the rest is history. But the sole purpose? Latitude exists here within reason .. and things like this are typically handled by the members, not the Moderators. Several people said their peace in that thread, and in our view it was handled. The probing in the thread illuminated the Great GP1's mindset on the Amish.Many times things are stricken by the Moderators .. we have a trash bin full to prove it.Go Zips!

I re-read the first and subsequent posts several times before responding in that thread or here. The dislike of Amish was featured in the thread's first sentence before the band was mentioned, not the other way around. Within 2 hours, dislike of the Amish became "hate." And it went downhill from there, which was entirely predictable.I also read earlier posts by the same person trashing a different religious group. A pattern of posting gratuitous hate messages about different religions on a sports forum certainly fits the classic definition of trolling. Many of the best-run internet forums do not allow any religious discussion, let alone overt hate posts, because religious discussion has proven over time to be one of the most emotional and divisive issues that can absolutely rip a forum community apart. Initiating attacks on religious beliefs is a time-proven method of provoking other forum members.Intent is hard to prove, so no one will ever know for certain what thought processes led to that series of hateful posts on ZN about different religions. But it's well known that those types of posts are extremely offensive to the fundamental beliefs of many. A pattern of similar posts suggests deliberate, not inadvertent, provocation. And that leads back to the classic definition of trolling. It's all about manipulation.I appreciate the good work of the moderators in filling the ZN trashbin with the obvious trash. But ZN would be an even friendlier place for all if there was zero tolerance for expressions of hatred for such things as religions, ethnic groups, etc.

Let it go, Dave. Let it go.