Butler and The Zips

[Captain Kangaroo]

The UA "Football Guy" vs. "Basketball Guy" has existed @ UA since Dennison was canned. That pretty much spans my era as a resident of Summit County. It just gets old...

No ill intent towards my friend Zip_ME87. His post simply inspired a minor rant on my part. And that chain reaction is the backbone of this board...posts that generate intelligent, opinionated and passionate observations on all aspects of Zips athletics.

ZW makes a lot of excellent points. The one I'll disagree with is using the blanket statement that (paraphrasing) "Zips football doesn't cover it's costs." That certainly was the case for every year up until 2009. But that should no longer be the case. I think all history of Zips football and profit/loss during the Rubber Bowl era needs to be locked away forever. The book keeping began last season, and I don't think the profitability (or loss-ability) can accurately be gauged until 2014. If it is an albatross in 2014, then someone isn't doing their job.

And as a final point of clarification - No one denies that the basketball program is highly successful. It's having it's best sustained run in the history of the program. Winning 68% (24-11) of their games is equivalent to the football team winning 8 games, and Football Guy has never won 8 games in the Division 1 era, regardless of the ease of schedule.

But...the JAR is 1/2 full. And have seen Z-E-R-O ideas on how to correct that. And it needs to be corrected. In my "Blame Rant," I listed numerous easily fixable problems within Zips basketball. Fixing them will put additional butts in the seats, improve the Program's image and visibility, and will not cost squat. We'll see how many problems are corrected in 2010-11. If past history is any indication...nothing will be done...people will toss up their hands and say "Why oh why can we not support the Zips basketball program"...and then the annual grousing about the football program will enter it's 26th consecutive season.

[Zip Watcher]

First off, I like your response.

The UA "Football Guy" vs. "Basketball Guy" has existed @ UA since Dennison was canned. That pretty much spans my era as a resident of Summit County. It just gets old...

It does get old .. it was tired 15 years ago. Once we can all join together, sing "we shall overcome" and agree that UA is a hoops school, it should settle down a bit .

No ill intent towards my friend Zip_ME87. His post simply inspired a minor rant on my part. And that chain reaction is the backbone of this board...posts that generate intelligent, opinionated and passionate observations on all aspects of Zips athletics.

ZW makes a lot of excellent points. The one I'll disagree with is using the blanket statement that (paraphrasing) "Zips football doesn't cover it's costs." That certainly was the case for every year up until 2009. But that should no longer be the case. I think all history of Zips football and profit/loss during the Rubber Bowl era needs to be locked away forever. The book keeping began last season, and I don't think the profitability (or loss-ability) can accurately be gauged until 2014. If it is an albatross in 2014, then someone isn't doing their job.

Agree entirely about looking forward, not backwards. There's just not a lot about the 90's worth remembering w/ Zips Athletics. My gut tells me that if in 2014, the FB operating revenues exceed operating expenditures (NB: capital expenditures, debt servicing EXCLUDED), then it means the Zips are in a different conference with a different TV contract. It's a huge uphill fight for 80% of FBS teams to turn a profit. Our facilities, and at this early time our coaching staff, appear to give UA every opportunity to be in the other 20%. I look forward to being there to watch it happen.

And as a final point of clarification - No one denies that the basketball program is highly successful. It's having it's best sustained run in the history of the program. Winning 68% (24-11) of their games is equivalent to the football team winning 8 games, and Football Guy has never won 8 games in the Division 1 era, regardless of the ease of schedule.

But...the JAR is 1/2 full. And have seen Z-E-R-O ideas on how to correct that. And it needs to be corrected. In my "Blame Rant," I listed numerous easily fixable problems within Zips basketball. Fixing them will put additional butts in the seats, improve the Program's image and visibility, and will not cost squat. We'll see how many problems are corrected in 2010-11. If past history is any indication...nothing will be done...people will toss up their hands and say "Why oh why can we not support the Zips basketball program"...and then the annual grousing about the football program will enter it's 26th consecutive season.

Sort of .. you listed your complaints. Not all of them are documented problems that have to be improved to move forward. Your list is reasonable, coming from someone with more of a FB tint to his blood.

Fact is, they DIDN'T get waxed by every decent team they played. They played w/ URI the whole way and lost by 5 on late free throws in what essentially was a one possession game. They hung with Texas A&M, they beat a team that won it's first round NCAA game TWICE. They struggled against Can't State, NC St. & VCU. FB guy continuing to beat the "Zips don't compete with any good teams, they always get blown out drum" doesn't make it any more true than it is. And it's not.

Winning will continue to put more butts in the seats. Having a new local kid around may put more butts in the seats. People came to see Ball & Bosely on some pretty mediocre teams (comparatively) .. maybe Egner will help that.

The Marketing, promotions, team shop, concessions .. etc .. improvements are important. And these are part of what BB Guy is looking to see investment in. They will require some cash .. they will require attention, and these things are part of what we want addressed. Fixing promotions, actually marketing the team and building the team shop out and stocking it up DOES cost money. Money that recently, the Athletic Department hasn't (chosen to or been able to) spend on hoops. It seems we're coming to agreement that it needs the focus, just not that it's free.

A LOT of your other items on the list need investment to be fully addressed. You've been in the lockerroom @ the JAR. Not sure you've been in any others (maybe the Info or Stile?) .. but seeing the team facility KD is working with, how do you expect him to be pulling in the Zeke's and Euton's of the world as the norm, and not the exception. This is a BIG thing that would address at least 3 or 4 of the items in your list. It's the improvement that would have the biggest impact on the floor .. which would either solve the other problems or make you think less about them.

When your kid or my kid is the next Maravich or Bird, and they take their allotted visits to 2 other elite hoops schools before committing to KD & the Zips .. the facilities chasm hopefully will have been closed, and they won't be swayed by what they find in Indianapolis or Spokane.

B) B)

Go Zips!!

[Dave in Green]

..... There is something basketball fans need to understand. The mid west is a football area. Basketball is something that takes place between football season and spring football. .....

Indiana, a midwest state that borders on Ohio, begs to differ.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Fact is, they DIDN'T get waxed by every decent team they played. They played w/ URI the whole way and lost by 5 on late free throws in what essentially was a one possession game. They hung with Texas A&M, they beat a team that won it's first round NCAA game TWICE. They struggled against Can't State, NC St. & VCU. FB guy continuing to beat the "Zips don't compete with any good teams, they always get blown out drum" doesn't make it any more true than it is. And it's not.

Here is where Basketball Guy needs to take a step back, divorce himself from his love of the program and respect for the players efforts and accomplishments...and try to objectively get in the head of Joe Akron. If you want a 90% full JAR, you need the other 40% to be filled by Joe Akron, who has proven, with over 5 years of indisputable data to back it up, that he will not show up if the status quo is maintained.

URI wasn't a waxing...but it was a loss. Like Dayton was a loss. Like all the major OOC games we've played over the last 2 full seasons. Joe Akron sees the losses mount in these games. With zero marquee wins to offset them. Joe Akron is not thrilled with last second wins over lower-middle mid majors like WMU and EMU. It's just a fact.

Keeping up with Texas A&M and coming away with a double digit loss doesn't excite Joe Akron (or many others). Home CBI losses to Wisconsin Green Bay don't either. This is the TV/YouTube/X-Games/X-Box generation. You need to do something special to pull Joe/Jane/Billy Akron away from their computers and home theaters. What is a laudable loss for Basketball Guy is nowhere near appearing on Joe Akron's entertainment radar.

Joe Akron HAS proven he'll show up for a big game. Like K.e.n.t. But we've put on a poor show for Joe on the rare occasion he graces us with his presence.

Maybe Football Guy is Joe Akron? In the end it doesn't matter. If you want to fill the remaining 2,500 seats, the status quo needs to be blown up. If no one cares about the 2,500 empty seats...which is perfectly ok...then keep the status quo.

[Dave in Green]

..... Basketball Guy here. I don't have tons of detail or stats to back this up .. so I'm hoping that ZachTheKid has this handy or D.I.G can corroborate. .....

I haven't discovered the financial stats motherload, so hopefully Zach can address this.

As someone who attends all the home basketball and football games but who has always enjoyed basketball more than football, I have no problem with UA splitting its resources between the two. I understand that football is a bigger draw at UA than basketball, even though the basketball team has been more successful in recent years.

It's tempting to imagine what UA might accomplish in basketball if it was the main sports focal point as it is at such schools as Butler and Gonzaga. But UA's commitment to football is too deep to reverse, so we will all have to live with the two-headed monster of high expectations for two major teams that both require significant resources to be successful.

[Zip_ME87]

No ill intent towards my friend Zip_ME87. His post simply inspired a minor rant on my part. And that chain reaction is the backbone of this board...posts that generate intelligent, opinionated and passionate observations on all aspects of Zips athletics.

No ill intent taken and no problem with your "minor rant"...just don't want to be misread as not supporting Akron Football. Good discussion and opinions, many of which I agree. However, I will never agree that football is the "be all, end all" as some have suggested. I love football the same as others here, but Akron has other strengths that need to be given their due.

[Captain Kangaroo]

..... Basketball Guy here. I don't have tons of detail or stats to back this up .. so I'm hoping that ZachTheKid has this handy or D.I.G can corroborate. .....

I haven't discovered the financial stats motherload, so hopefully Zach can address this.

I await those stats like I await a vasectomy with a rusty butter knife.

1.) Stats regarding the football programs profitability are worthless at this time. Anything referencing the Rubber Bowl era is irrelevant. And last year's "Honeymoon" season is too small a sampling.

2.) 5 years of 20 wins and status quo = 5 years of 3k attendance. That's all you need regarding basketball.

Fetch those stats for Dave if you want, Zach. FYI - His car may need washed too.

[Dave in Green]

Dave was not the one who asked for the financial stats. But don't let reality get in the way of launching a good zinger.

[Zips Win!]

After sitting out of ZNO for the better part of several weeks due to the fear that ZNO tattle-tale is lurking, this thread is too intriguing to sit out any longer.

While I completely agree with many of the ideas expressed here-

The football team sacrifices it's coach's record by playing a lot of essentially unwinnable BCS-level road games to get cash for the Zips Athletic Department.

Zips football program played in a total dump of a stadium for the past 25 years

It ain’t football fault that the hoops team will draw, on-average, 3,000 fans.

The schedule excited absolutely no one.

Blame the lack of eye-catching wins over marquee teams (Florida State was long, long ago)

Blame our lethargic approach to home games (remember when we NEVER lost at the JAR?)

Blame the lack of a "star," must-see player.

Blame the JAR team shop, who doesn't sell Zips Basketball replica jerseys (we wouldn't want little kids wearing such things to games, or around town, would we?)

Blame the $3.00 hotdogs and understaffed concession lines (even with our weak crowds)

We need to work together, not point fingers

But this notion that the athletic department dies without football is untrue. Like Zip_ME87, I want all the teams to be successful and am classified a Zips fan-not just football or just basketball.

Sure football can draw 30,000 and get paid $700K and have 3.5 hour commercials on ESPN in a bowl game while basketball can only draw 5500 and will not get this exposure unless they make a Sweet 16 run. But the football teams’ budget is also 6-8 times bigger. Where they even close to breaking even counting football only related revenue? I thought the ABJ posted an article on the amount of student fees that support the athletic department, especially football? Wasn’t something like 80% of the budget from fees? So even though they can earn $700K, they spend it and more.

Yes, baiting KD to bash the football program was shameful, but this Zips football guy v. Zips basketball guy will always be there. Always!

Why, because Akron football guy(s) doesn’t really exist. They are all in Columbus in the fall. My hunch is that there are many hoops-only fans in Akron because they don’t give a damn about football. I mean really give a damn about football. Therefore, these folks will always want UA to direct most of the funding to basketball (or soccer). Hence the football v. basketball mentality! The questions about football facilities vs. what basketball has will continue to persist.

Furthermore, many also believe that it would be much easier and cost-effective to build a hoops “dynasty” at a place like Akron. Why? With nice facilities and 2 or 3 really good players, you can make a run at the Sweet 16. In football, you will need 10-15 really good players to make a run at the top 16 and again, these really good players are wearing red and silver…

MAC- We all talk about getting out of the God-forsaken MAC Conference.

Where the hell are we going? Has someone created this perfect conference where UA football and UA hoops can BOTH prosper? Sorry, it doesn’t exist.

Even in a perfect world where we join a BCS level conference where we can get our grubby hands on some of the BCS tv revenue in football and go 7-5, what are our chances of making the big-dance in basketball, even if they expand to 165 teams? Slim to none and slim left town….

We are MAC, sorry. Until we get some of LBJ’s cash or find a way to get alumni to support it-with big time dollars, we are stuck. Let’s get the MAC conference to start acting like grown-ups and make schools accountable or kick them out…

JAR- Yes the seating sucks. I pay a PSL for two seats- all so I can STAND. Otherwise I would miss half the action. Would it be nice to have a new arena, of course, but where is the dough? While we clearly need better locker rooms, offices, etc. , I still find it hard to believe that we can’t start over with NEW seats.

Why can’t we essentially build 8 – 4 lower, 4 upper permanent sections of seating- With the proper sight lines. Even the furthest seat in Info is great. I would have a hard time finding even one seat in the JAR that is great.

Cameron Indoor is a glorified gym. The seats are on top/close to the action and I don’t see them Dukies building a new arena any time soon.

Marketing- I have no idea.

Students- I would suggest hiring two permanent full-time employees—One female and one male that dedicates 100% of their time to meeting with and getting to know every student enrolled at UA and then getting them to games….We all know that if you don’t go to games as a student, you probably will not go when you graduate.

Butler- Yes the butler did it. The run they had is similar to the run UC had in football.

Butler getting to the finals in a basketball crazed state-with IU, PU and ND to compete with was pretty amazing. Ditto for UC in a football-crazed state like Ohio.

So, yes, it can be done. Let’s stop pointing fingers and work together……

[Hilltopper]

+1 Nice post M

After sitting out of ZNO for the better part of several weeks due to the fear that ZNO tattle-tale is lurking, this thread is too intriguing to sit out any longer.

While I completely agree with many of the ideas expressed here-

The football team sacrifices it's coach's record by playing a lot of essentially unwinnable BCS-level road games to get cash for the Zips Athletic Department.

Zips football program played in a total dump of a stadium for the past 25 years

It ain’t football fault that the hoops team will draw, on-average, 3,000 fans.

The schedule excited absolutely no one.

Blame the lack of eye-catching wins over marquee teams (Florida State was long, long ago)

Blame our lethargic approach to home games (remember when we NEVER lost at the JAR?)

Blame the lack of a "star," must-see player.

Blame the JAR team shop, who doesn't sell Zips Basketball replica jerseys (we wouldn't want little kids wearing such things to games, or around town, would we?)

Blame the $3.00 hotdogs and understaffed concession lines (even with our weak crowds)

We need to work together, not point fingers

But this notion that the athletic department dies without football is untrue. Like Zip_ME87, I want all the teams to be successful and am classified a Zips fan-not just football or just basketball.

Sure football can draw 30,000 and get paid $700K and have 3.5 hour commercials on ESPN in a bowl game while basketball can only draw 5500 and will not get this exposure unless they make a Sweet 16 run. But the football teams’ budget is also 6-8 times bigger. Where they even close to breaking even counting football only related revenue? I thought the ABJ posted an article on the amount of student fees that support the athletic department, especially football? Wasn’t something like 80% of the budget from fees? So even though they can earn $700K, they spend it and more.

Yes, baiting KD to bash the football program was shameful, but this Zips football guy v. Zips basketball guy will always be there. Always!

Why, because Akron football guy(s) doesn’t really exist. They are all in Columbus in the fall. My hunch is that there are many hoops-only fans in Akron because they don’t give a damn about football. I mean really give a damn about football. Therefore, these folks will always want UA to direct most of the funding to basketball (or soccer). Hence the football v. basketball mentality! The questions about football facilities vs. what basketball has will continue to persist.

Furthermore, many also believe that it would be much easier and cost-effective to build a hoops “dynasty” at a place like Akron. Why? With nice facilities and 2 or 3 really good players, you can make a run at the Sweet 16. In football, you will need 10-15 really good players to make a run at the top 16 and again, these really good players are wearing red and silver…

MAC- We all talk about getting out of the God-forsaken MAC Conference.

Where the hell are we going? Has someone created this perfect conference where UA football and UA hoops can BOTH prosper? Sorry, it doesn’t exist.

Even in a perfect world where we join a BCS level conference where we can get our grubby hands on some of the BCS tv revenue in football and go 7-5, what are our chances of making the big-dance in basketball, even if they expand to 165 teams? Slim to none and slim left town….

We are MAC, sorry. Until we get some of LBJ’s cash or find a way to get alumni to support it-with big time dollars, we are stuck. Let’s get the MAC conference to start acting like grown-ups and make schools accountable or kick them out…

JAR- Yes the seating sucks. I pay a PSL for two seats- all so I can STAND. Otherwise I would miss half the action. Would it be nice to have a new arena, of course, but where is the dough? While we clearly need better locker rooms, offices, etc. , I still find it hard to believe that we can’t start over with NEW seats.

Why can’t we essentially build 8 – 4 lower, 4 upper permanent sections of seating- With the proper sight lines. Even the furthest seat in Info is great. I would have a hard time finding even one seat in the JAR that is great.

Cameron Indoor is a glorified gym. The seats are on top/close to the action and I don’t see them Dukies building a new arena any time soon.

Marketing- I have no idea.

Students- I would suggest hiring two permanent full-time employees—One female and one male that dedicates 100% of their time to meeting with and getting to know every student enrolled at UA and then getting them to games….We all know that if you don’t go to games as a student, you probably will not go when you graduate.

Butler- Yes the butler did it. The run they had is similar to the run UC had in football.

Butler getting to the finals in a basketball crazed state-with IU, PU and ND to compete with was pretty amazing. Ditto for UC in a football-crazed state like Ohio.

So, yes, it can be done. Let’s stop pointing fingers and work together……

[Zip Watcher]

URI wasn't a waxing.

Thank you.

Here is where Basketball Guy needs to take a step back, divorce himself from his love of the program and respect for the players efforts and accomplishments...and try to objectively get in the head of Joe Akron. If you want a 90% full JAR, you need the other 40% to be filled by Joe Akron, who has proven, with over 5 years of indisputable data to back it up, that he will not show up if the status quo is maintained.

URI wasn't a waxing...but it was a loss. Like Dayton was a loss. Like all the major OOC games we've played over the last 2 full seasons. Joe Akron sees the losses mount in these games. With zero marquee wins to offset them. Joe Akron is not thrilled with last second wins over lower-middle mid majors like WMU and EMU. It's just a fact.

Keeping up with Texas A&M and coming away with a double digit loss doesn't excite Joe Akron (or many others). Home CBI losses to Wisconsin Green Bay don't either. This is the TV/YouTube/X-Games/X-Box generation. You need to do something special to pull Joe/Jane/Billy Akron away from their computers and home theaters. What is a laudable loss for Basketball Guy is nowhere near appearing on Joe Akron's entertainment radar.

Joe Akron HAS proven he'll show up for a big game. Like K.e.n.t. But we've put on a poor show for Joe on the rare occasion he graces us with his presence.

Maybe Football Guy is Joe Akron? In the end it doesn't matter. If you want to fill the remaining 2,500 seats, the status quo needs to be blown up. If no one cares about the 2,500 empty seats...which is perfectly ok...then keep the status quo.

I think I understand better where we differ on this topic.

You appear to care deeply about Joe Akron's interest level.

Me? Not so much. I don't think it's a singular indicator of anything. There's too many variables to pin it down precisely.

For me, the measure of success of the program isn't the average attendance. It's the team's performance on the floor, in the classroom and in the community. I root for the players and group to be successful in these areas. I'm happy for them when they are. I enjoy basketball. I'm enjoying this unparalleled era of DI success at UA. I will continue to do so and hope the momentum of the program continues on an upward trajectory.

Frankly I don't care if Joe Akron doesn't appreciate winning basketball. I'll be happy to see him if he decides to join us @ the JAR. But until then, I don't really need to give him a second thought. I think the Nation does its part to help fans follow the Zips in different ways. I'm not going to lose sleep about how many empty seats there are. It'd be nice if the place was jammed, sure. But in the presence of repeated successful seasons, the current attendance by itself isn't to me a symptom of some other bigger problem that we need to be wringing our hands about.

B)

Go Zips!

[Zip Watcher]

+1 Nice post M

After sitting out of ZNO for the better part of several weeks due to the fear that ZNO tattle-tale is lurking, this thread is too intriguing to sit out any longer.

While I completely agree with many of the ideas expressed here-

The football team sacrifices it's coach's record by playing a lot of essentially unwinnable BCS-level road games to get cash for the Zips Athletic Department.

Zips football program played in a total dump of a stadium for the past 25 years

It ain’t football fault that the hoops team will draw, on-average, 3,000 fans.

The schedule excited absolutely no one.

Blame the lack of eye-catching wins over marquee teams (Florida State was long, long ago)

Blame our lethargic approach to home games (remember when we NEVER lost at the JAR?)

Blame the lack of a "star," must-see player.

Blame the JAR team shop, who doesn't sell Zips Basketball replica jerseys (we wouldn't want little kids wearing such things to games, or around town, would we?)

Blame the $3.00 hotdogs and understaffed concession lines (even with our weak crowds)

We need to work together, not point fingers

But this notion that the athletic department dies without football is untrue. Like Zip_ME87, I want all the teams to be successful and am classified a Zips fan-not just football or just basketball.

Sure football can draw 30,000 and get paid $700K and have 3.5 hour commercials on ESPN in a bowl game while basketball can only draw 5500 and will not get this exposure unless they make a Sweet 16 run. But the football teams’ budget is also 6-8 times bigger. Where they even close to breaking even counting football only related revenue? I thought the ABJ posted an article on the amount of student fees that support the athletic department, especially football? Wasn’t something like 80% of the budget from fees? So even though they can earn $700K, they spend it and more.

Yes, baiting KD to bash the football program was shameful, but this Zips football guy v. Zips basketball guy will always be there. Always!

Why, because Akron football guy(s) doesn’t really exist. They are all in Columbus in the fall. My hunch is that there are many hoops-only fans in Akron because they don’t give a damn about football. I mean really give a damn about football. Therefore, these folks will always want UA to direct most of the funding to basketball (or soccer). Hence the football v. basketball mentality! The questions about football facilities vs. what basketball has will continue to persist.

Furthermore, many also believe that it would be much easier and cost-effective to build a hoops “dynasty” at a place like Akron. Why? With nice facilities and 2 or 3 really good players, you can make a run at the Sweet 16. In football, you will need 10-15 really good players to make a run at the top 16 and again, these really good players are wearing red and silver…

MAC- We all talk about getting out of the God-forsaken MAC Conference.

Where the hell are we going? Has someone created this perfect conference where UA football and UA hoops can BOTH prosper? Sorry, it doesn’t exist.

Even in a perfect world where we join a BCS level conference where we can get our grubby hands on some of the BCS tv revenue in football and go 7-5, what are our chances of making the big-dance in basketball, even if they expand to 165 teams? Slim to none and slim left town….

We are MAC, sorry. Until we get some of LBJ’s cash or find a way to get alumni to support it-with big time dollars, we are stuck. Let’s get the MAC conference to start acting like grown-ups and make schools accountable or kick them out…

JAR- Yes the seating sucks. I pay a PSL for two seats- all so I can STAND. Otherwise I would miss half the action. Would it be nice to have a new arena, of course, but where is the dough? While we clearly need better locker rooms, offices, etc. , I still find it hard to believe that we can’t start over with NEW seats.

Why can’t we essentially build 8 – 4 lower, 4 upper permanent sections of seating- With the proper sight lines. Even the furthest seat in Info is great. I would have a hard time finding even one seat in the JAR that is great.

Cameron Indoor is a glorified gym. The seats are on top/close to the action and I don’t see them Dukies building a new arena any time soon.

Marketing- I have no idea.

Students- I would suggest hiring two permanent full-time employees—One female and one male that dedicates 100% of their time to meeting with and getting to know every student enrolled at UA and then getting them to games….We all know that if you don’t go to games as a student, you probably will not go when you graduate.

Butler- Yes the butler did it. The run they had is similar to the run UC had in football.

Butler getting to the finals in a basketball crazed state-with IU, PU and ND to compete with was pretty amazing. Ditto for UC in a football-crazed state like Ohio.

So, yes, it can be done. Let’s stop pointing fingers and work together……

I agree w/ Topper .. GREAT post.

Curious .. do you buy the seat behind you?

[Captain Kangaroo]

After sitting out of ZNO for the better part of several weeks due to the fear that ZNO tattle-tale is lurking, this thread is too intriguing to sit out any longer.

Yes, baiting KD to bash the football program was shameful, but this Zips football guy v. Zips basketball guy will always be there. Always!

Why, because Akron football guy(s) doesn’t really exist. They are all in Columbus in the fall. My hunch is that there are many hoops-only fans in Akron because they don’t give a damn about football. I mean really give a damn about football. Therefore, these folks will always want UA to direct most of the funding to basketball (or soccer). Hence the football v. basketball mentality!

Wow...a fresh, sound theory? I LIKE it!

Zach - Can you please find me reams of statistics to back that one up? .xls format will suffice.

[ZachTheZip]

Here's your statistics.

Just wait for the pre-loader to finish.

[MaxZIP]

NCAABBS thread on conference revenues.

http://ncaabbs.com/printthread.php?tid=350645

[Zip Watcher]

Here's your statistics.

Just wait for the pre-loader to finish.

Might be your best post ever!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Here's your statistics.

Just wait for the pre-loader to finish.

Might be your best post ever!

Could there possibly be hope for Zach?

[Dr Z]

When you see basketball fans tailgate before AND AFTER the games like they do in football, you will know the two are on a parallel. If GP1 can have the laugh-o-meter, I can have the tailgate-o-meter.

[Zip Watcher]

Since it's typically very cold before and after home hoops games, you're welcome to come observe my group and I "tailgate" before and after home games at any of several local refreshment venues. We don't need to stand around in a parking lot to be valid fans.

Go Zips!

[Captain Kangaroo]

Since it's typically very cold before and after home hoops games, you're welcome to come observe my group and I "tailgate" before and after home games at any of several local refreshment venues. We don't need to stand around in a parking lot to be valid fans.

Go Zips!

Watch it, 'Watcher. Don't piss-off Tailgate Guy!

[Dr Z]

Since it's typically very cold before and after home hoops games, you're welcome to come observe my group and I "tailgate" before and after home games at any of several local refreshment venues. We don't need to stand around in a parking lot to be valid fans.

How to register on the Tailgate-O-Meter™ .

[Dave in Green]

I can understand why tailgating is more important to UA football fans than UA basketball fans. Tailgating provides pleasant memories to help offset the pain of losing games.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I can understand why tailgating is more important to UA football fans than UA basketball fans. Tailgating provides pleasant memories to help offset the pain of losing games.

Anthony Stacey, Keith McCloud, Brandon Hunter, Jose Davis, Jeff Penno, Austin Peay & Wisconsin Green Bay...the K.e.n.t. State bludgeonings....yeah, being a Zips basketball fan is f-ing Shangri La.

[Captain Kangaroo]

URI wasn't a waxing.

You appear to care deeply about Joe Akron's interest level.

Me? Not so much.

Go Zips!

I guess I'm a little more like Dambrot, and you're a little more like our Promotions Group? Fair enough.

[Zip Watcher]

I guess I'm a little more like Dambrot, and you're a little more like our Promotions Group? Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure that was unnecessary.

Anthony Stacey, Keith McCloud, Brandon Hunter, Jose Davis, Jeff Penno, Austin Peay & Wisconsin Green Bay...the K.e.n.t. State bludgeonings....yeah, being a Zips basketball fan is f-ing Shangri La.

And I guess you will continue to hold failures of 10 years ago above championships of 2 years ago. You want to dwell on and live in the past, that's your choice.

B)

Go Zips!