Money

[GP1]

Nobody should be shocked by this report.

Once that number reaches 30 from the current 22, the ncaa should create a division for those schools. Add an extra 10 to the 30 and force the last ten to make cuts in order to be more profitable. Division 1 sports will change rapidly in the near future. Where will the Zips/MAC end up?

[Captain Kangaroo]

Nobody should be shocked by this report.

Once that number reaches 30 from the current 22, the ncaa should create a division for those schools. Add an extra 10 to the 30 and force the last ten to make cuts in order to be more profitable. Division 1 sports will change rapidly in the near future. Where will the Zips/MAC end up?

As long as the Zips remain a Division above YSU, I don't care.

As you recently stated in another thread, the Zips problem isn't being in the wrong division, or Ohio State, or anything else external. The Zips football problem is -- we have terrible leadership. From the top-down. For decades. Until that changes, we will continue to suck regardless of our NCAA-mandated division.

[skip-zip]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

[Z.I.P.]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

You guys are in a fantasy alright! It is one thing to play in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title, but it is something completely different to actually compete seriously against those teams. No MAC school will be competing for a football national title in our lifetimes. Period.

[GP1]

As long as the Zips remain a Division above YSU, I don't care.

I agree. I also think it would happen that way.

[Captain Kangaroo]

You guys are in a fantasy alright! It is one thing to play in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title, but it is something completely different to actually compete seriously against those teams. No MAC school will be competing for a football national title in our lifetimes. Period.

Essentially EVERY program that has made the jump from 1-AA to 1-A over the last 25 years has had greater success than the Zips. Forget Boise State and Marshall...Florida International and Florida Atlantic have surpassed us!? Why is that?

It is because for 25 years we didn't make any commitment to the sport. We antied-up to the NCAA D-1 poker table with a big wad of cash, but it was a $1,000 bill wrapped around a slew of $1's.

Now we have a legit stadium and training facilities, but our bar for coaches and AD's hasn't been raised. We're like the Beverly Hillbillies...huge beautiful mansion, but with only a handful of squirrel hunters and moonshiners inside.

[johnnyzip84]

We're like the Beverly Hillbillies...huge beautiful mansion, but with only a handful of squirrel hunters and moonshiners inside.

And we could be "settin' a spell"

[GP1]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

I agree with Z.I.P.

At some point, reality has to set in. We have to live in the world of reality. The reality is, we are in a horrible conference and right now we are a horrible team. Not only that, we have 20+ years of evidence proving we and our conference have no business at the highest level of football. Anyone not able to see that has the intellectual ability of Sarah Palin. I get excited about the Zips being able to win a game against a like school, not getting their teeth kicked in by a bcs level team so we can tell everyone we are at least at their level. WE AREN'T!!!!!

Let's say CK is right and it was all just about leadership. Where would we be right now? There are schools in the MAC that have had much better leadership throughout the past 20 years and they, like us, can only do well in the MAC. Miami comes to mind. They have very good leadership, great tradition and they still only get a few thousand fans to their games. There wasn't a respectable conference twenty years ago (the MAC didn't even want us) who would have taken us and there won't be one in ten years. With the best possible leadership, all we could expect is more winning in the MAC with a couple scattered bcs wins under our belts every 4-5 years.

Where would the MAC be if it had better leadership? I would say it would be in exactly the same condition it is right now. The reasoning has nothing to do with the leadership of the conference and everything to do with who leads the ncaa. The bcs schools run the ncaa and we/the MAC are not part of that.

[GP1]

Essentially EVERY program that has made the jump from 1-AA to 1-A over the last 25 years has had greater success than the Zips. Forget Boise State and Marshall...Florida International and Florida Atlantic have surpassed us!? Why is that?

If we want to end up on the business end of the ncaa whip, we could be like BSU and Marshall. Marshall had ncaa problems. The darling of the non-bcs teams, Boise State, is having ncaa problems.

There are too many reasons to get into why the Florida schools are doing well. One of them only won four games least year, but since we only won one, I guess that counts as doing better. The other won their league. It is money. They are also in an attractive places to attend college so they draw better players. They also have a better pool of players around them (please don't tell me how many D1 players Ohio produces every year....MAC schools are flooded with them and it inflates the numbers). College football is a religion in the south and people around Akron are professional sports fans so they won't support the program. We have a stadium named after a telemarketing company....a freaking telemarketing company that made it's money taking money off of little old ladies $25 at a time making them believe they would go to Hell if they didn't donate the money. The list is long....we are truely pathetic.

[GP1]

We're like the Beverly Hillbillies...huge beautiful mansion, but with only a handful of squirrel hunters and moonshiners inside.

Are those of us on this board squirrel hunters or moonshiners. I like think of my self as a moonshiner.

[Captain Kangaroo]

We're like the Beverly Hillbillies...huge beautiful mansion, but with only a handful of squirrel hunters and moonshiners inside.

Are those of us on this board squirrel hunters or moonshiners. I like think of my self as a moonshiner.

If shootin' a black squirrel is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

[Doug Snyder]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

You guys are in a fantasy alright! It is one thing to play in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title, but it is something completely different to actually compete seriously against those teams. No MAC school will be competing for a football national title in our lifetimes. Period.

+1

[Spin]

If there were any chance of Akron getting serious about football, I'd be all for staying in the FBS.

But other than a fancy looking stadium, cheaper to build than rebuilding the Rubber Blow especially with ssponsors, I see NO committment to become more competitive. I wonder if the U was ever serious about Div I-A, if they ever gave Gerry Faust what he needed to build a serious program.

Seriously, if you can't sell football in northeast Ohio, you're in the wrong business. Crimony. There are high school games that outdraw some of the gatherings I've seen at Zips games. They sold out freaking Arena Football games for crying out loud, and broke attendance records.

Even when the team won (which seems like a long time ago) they had a hard time making NCAA minimum.

Unacceptable.

[Zips Win!]

Expect more of the same when it comes to UA football/athletics until the Care-Factor changes. Every time this topic comes up, you can count in CK to point fingers at the administration, GP1 to talk money or lack thereof and ZipsWin! to blame a lame alumni association.

Fact is, everyone is correct.

Things will change when those involved and have real control of the programs start to give a damn. Does the board of trustees really care about UA football? How many faculty, staff, students and alumni really care about UA football? I agree that the administration has been lacking over the course of the last 25 years. But how to find people that give a damn when they are looking for the next best deal- money or prestige to go somewhere else? Hell, Mr. Infocision himself doesn’t really care about UA football, he’ll be rooting for the buckeyes on September 3rd. Even the miniscule fan base that UA has is somewhat segmented. There are many who really like soccer and hoops, but are in Columbus on Saturdays in the fall as they wouldn’t have the backbone to support football at UA. Let’s face it, being a Zips football fan isn’t the most popular thing to do and most people really do like being popular…

I realize comparing football to soccer and hoops at UA isn’t completely fair, however it makes a point.

Caleb wins the national freaking title at UA and then does what? He doesn’t leave UA for a few more bucks or a name school. He heads over seas recruiting like a maniac in an attempt to win it all again. He gives a damn.

Dambrot makes the NCAA tournament two of the last three years and there is no inkling that he has any desire to make a few more bucks elsewhere. He gives a damn.

Could we make the same argument for football? No way. Let’s dream for a minute that i-Coach goes 11-1 this year, the buckeyes are hit with a 10-year probation, two-dozen three-star recruits begin verballing at UA and then i-Coach gets an offer to coach elsewhere. Sorry folks, he’s gone.

So, while the dream was great, unfortunately getting people to really give a damn about UA football may be an even bigger pipe dream.

[skip-zip]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

You guys are in a fantasy alright! It is one thing to play in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title, but it is something completely different to actually compete seriously against those teams. No MAC school will be competing for a football national title in our lifetimes. Period.

I'm sure someone could easily say that. But, I don't think any of us have expectations of national titles as a D-1A football program. I want to be competitive, and be good. I want to see the top teams have to treat Akron as something more than a patsy. That will undoubtedly create more excitement for me than having a chance to win more games in a lower division that gets little or no attention from the general sporting world.

But, being somewhere in the national championship picture certainly isn't the impossibility that you suggest. Boise, Marshall, TCU, Ball State, NIU and Utah are just a handful of those who have been highly ranked, and right on the edge of a magical season, just in the last decade or so alone.

[Blue & Gold]

As I think ahead in terms of the possibilities, I still find myself to be very dissappointed if we are no longer playing in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title. I still remember how excited I was in 1985 when it was announced that we would soon be joining the highest division of college football. And although the reality of being a big time competitor in that division was much more challenging than the fantasy, I would still be upset if we were eliminated from having that opportunity any longer.

Captain's post has to make you think.......if the right people are ever in place, could we still have a chance to make that a reality?

We may never, ever know if we end up being downgraded.

You guys are in a fantasy alright! It is one thing to play in the same division as the teams that play in the bowl games, and play for the highest national title, but it is something completely different to actually compete seriously against those teams. No MAC school will be competing for a football national title in our lifetimes. Period.

I'm sure someone could easily say that. But, I don't think any of us have expectations of national titles as a D-1A football program. I want to be competitive, and be good. I want to see the top teams have to treat Akron as something more than a patsy. That will undoubtedly create more excitement for me than having a chance to win more games in a lower division that gets little or no attention from the general sporting world.

But, being somewhere in the national championship picture certainly isn't the impossibility that you suggest. Boise, Marshall, TCU, Ball State, NIU and Utah are just a handful of those who have been highly ranked, and right on the edge of a magical season, just in the last decade or so alone.

I'd rather have a shot at making the Top 25 than win a national championship in a lower division. I've got no BCS National Championship-esque delusions of grandeur, but I do think we could build a 20-25-type program.

[GP1]

I'd rather have a shot at making the Top 25 than win a national championship in a lower division. I've got no BCS National Championship-esque delusions of grandeur, but I do think we could build a 20-25-type program.

Ranking don't get me excited.

I would get excited at the football team at least winning their division every year. A MAC Championship wouldn't be that bad either...maybe two in a row. Winning is the sign of progress. Rankings are something people who don't see all of the games hand out.

[Hilltopper]

Expect more of the same when it comes to UA football/athletics until the Care-Factor changes. Every time this topic comes up, you can count in CK to point fingers at the administration, GP1 to talk money or lack thereof and ZipsWin! to blame a lame alumni association.

Fact is, everyone is correct.

Things will change when those involved and have real control of the programs start to give a damn. Does the board of trustees really care about UA football? How many faculty, staff, students and alumni really care about UA football? I agree that the administration has been lacking over the course of the last 25 years. But how to find people that give a damn when they are looking for the next best deal- money or prestige to go somewhere else? Hell, Mr. Infocision himself doesn’t really care about UA football, he’ll be rooting for the buckeyes on September 3rd. Even the miniscule fan base that UA has is somewhat segmented. There are many who really like soccer and hoops, but are in Columbus on Saturdays in the fall as they wouldn’t have the backbone to support football at UA. Let’s face it, being a Zips football fan isn’t the most popular thing to do and most people really do like being popular…

I realize comparing football to soccer and hoops at UA isn’t completely fair, however it makes a point.

Caleb wins the national freaking title at UA and then does what? He doesn’t leave UA for a few more bucks or a name school. He heads over seas recruiting like a maniac in an attempt to win it all again. He gives a damn.

Dambrot makes the NCAA tournament two of the last three years and there is no inkling that he has any desire to make a few more bucks elsewhere. He gives a damn.

Could we make the same argument for football? No way. Let’s dream for a minute that i-Coach goes 11-1 this year, the buckeyes are hit with a 10-year probation, two-dozen three-star recruits begin verballing at UA and then i-Coach gets an offer to coach elsewhere. Sorry folks, he’s gone.

So, while the dream was great, unfortunately getting people to really give a damn about UA football may be an even bigger pipe dream.

You nailed it ZW. Until we get rid of the carpet baggers who actually make the decisions, we will never be consistantly good at FB.

[GP1]

You nailed it ZW. Until we get rid of the carpet baggers who actually make the decisions, we will never be consistantly good at FB.

I've thought about posting what I'm about to post for a while. You post made a good segway for me.

It isn't just the people who come and go who are the problem. There are lots of people in the Athletic Department who have seen many ADs over the years. I'm not sure that's good for the school.

The Athletic Department needs change, and I don't just mean the AD. If you look at the highest levels of the Athletic Department, some of those names have been around for a long time. I'm not so sure that is good for the Department and I'm not sure that is good for those people as well.

I would take the following steps if I was Dr. Proenza:

1. Fire the AD. This guy is in over his head.

2. Get some help hiring a new AD. He didn't do a very good job last time and he may need better advice.

3. Require new AD to start searches for positions at highest levels of the Athletic Department. This task can be accomplished with recruiters. Don't let new AD hire his friends.

4. Require existing employees in those positions to re-interview for their jobs and demonstrate they are rowing the boat in the same direction as Dr. Proenza and the new AD. Keep those who are...can those who aren't. Get rid of the rats. I'm sure within the University, there are those who know who the rats are and they should be released.

5. Change culture of Athletic Department by repeating steps 3 & 4 all the way down to kids in work study.

A cultural change is badly needed and a culture involves more than just the guy at the top. One guy can't do it alone. EVERYONE needs to be rowing the boat in the same direction. Sharpen your axe Dr. Proenza...and hurry up about it. While you are at it, sharpen one for the new AD as well and tell him to use it liberally.

[Dave in Green]

I'd rather have a shot at making the Top 25 than win a national championship in a lower division. I've got no BCS National Championship-esque delusions of grandeur, but I do think we could build a 20-25-type program.

Ranking don't get me excited.

I would get excited at the football team at least winning their division every year. A MAC Championship wouldn't be that bad either...maybe two in a row. Winning is the sign of progress. Rankings are something people who don't see all of the games hand out.

More Winning = Higher Ranking

[Spin]

You nailed it ZW. Until we get rid of the carpet baggers who actually make the decisions, we will never be consistantly good at FB.

I've thought about posting what I'm about to post for a while. You post made a good segway for me.

It isn't just the people who come and go who are the problem. There are lots of people in the Athletic Department who have seen many ADs over the years. I'm not sure that's good for the school.

The Athletic Department needs change, and I don't just mean the AD. If you look at the highest levels of the Athletic Department, some of those names have been around for a long time. I'm not so sure that is good for the Department and I'm not sure that is good for those people as well.

I would take the following steps if I was Dr. Proenza:

1. Fire the AD. This guy is in over his head.

2. Get some help hiring a new AD. He didn't do a very good job last time and he may need better advice.

3. Require new AD to start searches for positions at highest levels of the Athletic Department. This task can be accomplished with recruiters. Don't let new AD hire his friends.

4. Require existing employees in those positions to re-interview for their jobs and demonstrate they are rowing the boat in the same direction as Dr. Proenza and the new AD. Keep those who are...can those who aren't. Get rid of the rats. I'm sure within the University, there are those who know who the rats are and they should be released.

5. Change culture of Athletic Department by repeating steps 3 & 4 all the way down to kids in work study.

A cultural change is badly needed and a culture involves more than just the guy at the top. One guy can't do it alone. EVERYONE needs to be rowing the boat in the same direction. Sharpen your axe Dr. Proenza...and hurry up about it. While you are at it, sharpen one for the new AD as well and tell him to use it liberally.

+1

[bobbyake]

I'd rather have a shot at making the Top 25 than win a national championship in a lower division. I've got no BCS National Championship-esque delusions of grandeur, but I do think we could build a 20-25-type program.

Ranking don't get me excited.

I would get excited at the football team at least winning their division every year. A MAC Championship wouldn't be that bad either...maybe two in a row. Winning is the sign of progress. Rankings are something people who don't see all of the games hand out.

More Winning = Higher Ranking

Caleb Porter for Athletic Director

[Doug Snyder]

Expect more of the same when it comes to UA football/athletics until the Care-Factor changes. Every time this topic comes up, you can count in CK to point fingers at the administration, GP1 to talk money or lack thereof and ZipsWin! to blame a lame alumni association.

Fact is, everyone is correct.

Things will change when those involved and have real control of the programs start to give a damn. Does the board of trustees really care about UA football? How many faculty, staff, students and alumni really care about UA football? I agree that the administration has been lacking over the course of the last 25 years. But how to find people that give a damn when they are looking for the next best deal- money or prestige to go somewhere else? Hell, Mr. Infocision himself doesn’t really care about UA football, he’ll be rooting for the buckeyes on September 3rd. Even the miniscule fan base that UA has is somewhat segmented. There are many who really like soccer and hoops, but are in Columbus on Saturdays in the fall as they wouldn’t have the backbone to support football at UA. Let’s face it, being a Zips football fan isn’t the most popular thing to do and most people really do like being popular…

I realize comparing football to soccer and hoops at UA isn’t completely fair, however it makes a point.

Caleb wins the national freaking title at UA and then does what? He doesn’t leave UA for a few more bucks or a name school. He heads over seas recruiting like a maniac in an attempt to win it all again. He gives a damn.

Dambrot makes the NCAA tournament two of the last three years and there is no inkling that he has any desire to make a few more bucks elsewhere. He gives a damn.

Could we make the same argument for football? No way. Let’s dream for a minute that i-Coach goes 11-1 this year, the buckeyes are hit with a 10-year probation, two-dozen three-star recruits begin verballing at UA and then i-Coach gets an offer to coach elsewhere. Sorry folks, he’s gone.

So, while the dream was great, unfortunately getting people to really give a damn about UA football may be an even bigger pipe dream.

I agree with most of what you say. But:

1. Caleb has one of the top 5 soccer programs in the country and other schools can't offer significantly more salary (non-income producing sport)

2. Dambrot has more reason to “care” about the university. They rescued his career and his mom was a teacher here for many years. But I think he would leave if tOSU came knocking. I just don’t see him looking for another position and he would only leave if it were a “dream come true” position.

3. ICoach is coaching a team that has been in the bottom 20% for years. This is his first HC position. To think he does not have higher aspirations is foolish. And…I would not have hired anyone that did not have higher aspirations. And…100+ programs can offer significantly more money to a guy NOT from Akron.

One question. If someone offered you 5-10 times your current salary would you leave?? If the answer is yes (I am assuming it is) then the next question is do you care about your current position?? I think it is possible to have career aspirations and care about your current situation. I think you are off base in regards to coaches reason for staying or leaving.

NE Ohio is a fickle fan base. The Indians won 97 games in 2007 and were the favorites the next season but they drew fewer fans and very little increase in season tickets. I do not believe increasing attendance will be easy. But I do believe that we must be competitive first.

I think for the program to improve….more people have to care. And that means alumni and students. I live in California part of the year and go to the St. Mary’s games. The arena is a copy of the JAR. They pack the place. The seats are just as hard as at the JAR. But fans show up. No excuses…no blaming others. They just show up. When the Zips get fans, alumni and students that care to show up….things will improve.

[RACER]

the reason no mac team can compete with bcs schools is $$.i don'tcare who you bring in to run the a.d. dept it does not matter.bcs schools bring in huge dollars with tv deals.the mac tv deal is a joke because no one wants to see mac games.you pack the rubber bowl every game,and it would not matter.most $ is made from tv deals,and the mac tv money is not much.sun belt/mac are really not much more than 1-aa schools playing d-1.

[Spin]

Why don't we try being competitive in the MAC, win some divisions and a couple more conference championships. Maybe a bowl game against another BCS fodder school.

And how about having a team capable of beating a BCS school now and then? I'm sure the people in Toledo enjoy drubbing a Big Ten school every few years. Who knows what they're planning against the remains of tOSU this year...

If we pull some of that off, we could be ranked. Ball freakin State was ranked for a time.

Don't tell me a MAC school can't pull it off. Go for a BCS title, that's a pipe dream in our lifetime. But it can still be FUN. People will pay to watch that. They set records to see the Aeros, despite the fact they're never going to the World Series. it's still fun to watch a competitive team at any level.