The QB battle

[GP1]

I agree 100% with your thinking, Dr Z. But, I also enjoy trivia questions like these. This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Seven starters were lost for the season that day.

[skip-zip]

This is an excellent discussion. Skip, we are all aware of your disdain for Nicely as a quarterback. It's easy to point to his horrid passer stats from last year (and in 2010 to a lesser degree) and make the steadfast claim that he'll never be the answer for the Zips at QB. While I don't disagree that PN7's 2011 performance was nowhere near where it needs to be for UA to have success, I think the equally poor play of the offensive line needs to at least be considered in the equation. I have no real evidence to necessarily expect better O-line play in 2011, but one thing is for sure: If the big hosses up front don't improve as individuals and as a unit, it won't matter who wins the starting QB job. It's not like PN7 or CM8 are the types of QBs who will make up for deficiencies in pass protection. And it could be argued that a pro-style offense is less tolerant of poor pass protection than some other schemes.That said, I do expect CM8 to COMPETE and WIN the starting job, probably sooner rather than later. Keener, you bring up a good point about the level of the programs who offered CM8 the 2nd time around (Wyoming, Lousiana-Lafayette) as compared to his original suitors. I went back and re-read Tom Gaffney's article about his arrival at UA and two things stood out to me that I somehow missed the 1st time.1) Clayton's Louisville (Miss) HS team STILL won a Mississippi state championship the week after he was dismissed from the team just before half-time of the state semi-final. Besides the obvious insubordination concerns, perhaps the fact that the team won it without him also lowered his value in some college's eyes.2) CM8's JC coach is good friends with the same HS coach who booted him off the team! AND, his JC coach also spoke at length with his HS coach before bringing him in to QB the team to a Mississippi JC championship. This tells me that whatever the issue was between CM8 and his HS coach, it wasn't so awful or permanent to prevent his JC coach from signing him. As far as I'm concerned, this alleviates much of my concerns regarding his maturity.

I don't make that claim. But, I certainly join those who are disgusted by what we've seen so far. I also don't base my opinion solely on stats. I've seen enough with my own eyes. But, it's impossible to ignore such awful stats too, and very easy to point fingers at other factors. I think it's foolish if someone acts as if bad receivers and bad protection only exists in Akron. I'm sure plenty of the other 114 QBs with better stats had similar issues. Maybe one could argue that he was actually helped by an experienced backfield? I think a guy is capable of consistently throwing a good ball, or he is not. And I've simply reached a pretty low point in my level of patience after 2 years of this.

[skip-zip]

Whichever QB is worse is the one I want starting against OSU so that the good one isn't injured the rest of the season.

This attitude stinks IMO. I hope the team proves you wrong.

He would have been much better off saying he didn't want the QB to get hurt in a meaningless game, which the vast majority of BCS vs non-BCS games are (with the exception of the pile of cash that lands in the non-BCS teams' banks).

When is the last time an Akron QB got hurt against a BCS team? Play to win. Think NC State.

I agree 100% with your thinking, Dr Z. But, I also enjoy trivia questions like these. This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

See if anyone else remembers this...The game was on TV, and I recall Sweitzer scrambling for a first down on our initial possession. Everyone I was with got so excited and jumped up to "high five" each other. Little did we know that it was going to be one of our only first downs of the game. I recall the Florida game being part of a consecutively brutal Florida/Rutgers/Army stretch of road games (I think those were the three). I know some of the players who can recall the physical test they endured during that stretch still to this day. And I think we almost won two of those games before letting them slip away late. I'd take those days back in a second.

[yazan07]

Whichever QB is worse is the one I want starting against OSU so that the good one isn't injured the rest of the season.

This attitude stinks IMO. I hope the team proves you wrong.

I hope they prove me wrong too, and I was absolutely making a joke, I don't expect our QB to get injured in this game, and I will be celebrating with everyone else if we somehow pull of an upset. However, if we are going to talk trivia, when was the last time OSU lost to another team from Ohio? Correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe it was Oberlin in 1921. A win for us would be miraculous, not getting destroyed would be great, but I expect a loss. Yes, with all the stuff that has been going on in Columbus, if there was ever a year for OSU to lose to smaller program, this would be the year for sure. I'm not certain though that given our team situation, we will be that program to do it. Make no mistake though, I (born and raised in central Ohio) will be rooting for the Zips that day no matter what.

[johnnyzip84]

Skip, you are 100% correct that you’ve never used those exact words regarding Nicely. But if you’re about to tell me that you really think Patrick could still possibly be the answer at QB, then you’re my nominee for ZNO flip-flopper of the year so far. And if you do, I’ll gladly apologize for misrepresenting your position.BTW, I remember that difficult stretch pretty well. I think it was actually Navy-Florida-Rutgers. The Rutgers game was particularly frustrating, as it was clearly there for the taking.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I agree 100% with your thinking, Dr Z. But, I also enjoy trivia questions like these. This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Seven starters were lost for the season that day.

That was back when we were still fielding a lot of 1-AA players. We've played scores of Top 10 teams in the 2 decades since that game without any notable injuries.We're fine with conditioning, durability and size vs. Top 10 opponents. We just lack the speed, athleticism, depth and...about everything else.

[skip-zip]

Skip, you are 100% correct that you’ve never used those exact words regarding Nicely. But if you’re about to tell me that you really think Patrick could still possibly be the answer at QB, then you’re my nominee for ZNO flip-flopper of the year so far. And if you do, I’ll gladly apologize for misrepresenting your position.BTW, I remember that difficult stretch pretty well. I think it was actually Navy-Florida-Rutgers. The Rutgers game was particularly frustrating, as it was clearly there for the taking.

I'm glad someone else can remember that stretch of games. I can't remember the order anymore. I'm too old.I'm not sure why you think that I need to say that there is ZERO chance of a dramatic transformation in order to maintain a consistency in my position. It would shock me, for sure. My position is that I think we've wasted enough time already waiting for "development", and I don't see "the answer at QB" being part of his future.

[johnnyzip84]

Skip, you are 100% correct that you’ve never used those exact words regarding Nicely. But if you’re about to tell me that you really think Patrick could still possibly be the answer at QB, then you’re my nominee for ZNO flip-flopper of the year so far. And if you do, I’ll gladly apologize for misrepresenting your position.BTW, I remember that difficult stretch pretty well. I think it was actually Navy-Florida-Rutgers. The Rutgers game was particularly frustrating, as it was clearly there for the taking.

I'm glad someone else can remember that stretch of games. I can't remember the order anymore. I'm too old.I'm not sure why you think that I need to say that there is ZERO chance of a dramatic transformation in order to maintain a consistency in my position. It would shock me, for sure. My position is that I think we've wasted enough time already waiting for "development", and I don't see "the answer at QB" being part of his future.

Fair enough My point was that I didn’t think I was grossly misrepresenting your position with my original statement, even if the particular words I chose were not a direct quote of yours.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I like Nicely. I think he was dealt an impossible set of circumstances over his brief 2-year stint.I expect him to be our starting QB at Ohio State. If his receivers can't get open, run wrong routes, or consistently drop the ball he'll have a rough season. Ditto if the OL can't adequately protect. Moore won't fare any better.Nicely is a terrible runner. If Moore is at least elusive, that's the only edge I'll give him. And elusive, running QB's don't last long. Ask Matt Rogers.

[GP1]

I agree 100% with your thinking, Dr Z. But, I also enjoy trivia questions like these. This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Seven starters were lost for the season that day.

That was back when we were still fielding a lot of 1-AA players. We've played scores of Top 10 teams in the 2 decades since that game without any notable injuries.We're fine with conditioning, durability and size vs. Top 10 opponents. We just lack the speed, athleticism, depth and...about everything else.

Agreed. I was just pointing out an unusual fact. The plane should have had a red cross and the words M*A*S*H painted on it.

[GoZips]

Whichever QB is worse is the one I want starting against OSU so that the good one isn't injured the rest of the season.

This attitude stinks IMO. I hope the team proves you wrong.

He would have been much better off saying he didn't want the QB to get hurt in a meaningless game, which the vast majority of BCS vs non-BCS games are (with the exception of the pile of cash that lands in the non-BCS teams' banks).

When is the last time an Akron QB got hurt against a BCS team? Play to win. Think NC State.

Now there there was one of the most fun games I ever attended on the road. Right up there with the last second win over NIU for the MAC Championship at Ford Field.

[GP1]

When is the last time an Akron QB got hurt against a BCS team? Play to win. Think NC State.

There COULD be some interesting parallels between NCSt and tosu. What was suspected going into the ncs game was Chuck A. was on his last leg and the team had given up AND was in disarrray. That COULD be the case with osu this season, but there is still a lot we don't know.Akron had a much better team back then than they do right now. They just came off of the MAC Championship and had a lot of confidence. They also gave a respectable showing the week before at Penn State. We had a QB on a roll with a future NFL WR (who later decided a career in manual labor was more important than college). The also had a future NFL O-lineman on the team. Like Bill Cowher always said, "The most dangerous team is a team with confidence and momentum." We had both that week. It was awesome. Little did we know CMU would take every last bit of it away from us the following week, on one play right before half. We beat a bad NTSU team the following week, then the wheels seem to fall off. This current Zips team certainly doesn't have any momentum (Buffalo?) or probably much confidence. If the confidence and momentum were there, I'd hope for NC State. Given the current circumstances, I won't.

[skip-zip]

Skip, you are 100% correct that you’ve never used those exact words regarding Nicely. But if you’re about to tell me that you really think Patrick could still possibly be the answer at QB, then you’re my nominee for ZNO flip-flopper of the year so far. And if you do, I’ll gladly apologize for misrepresenting your position.BTW, I remember that difficult stretch pretty well. I think it was actually Navy-Florida-Rutgers. The Rutgers game was particularly frustrating, as it was clearly there for the taking.

I'm glad someone else can remember that stretch of games. I can't remember the order anymore. I'm too old.I'm not sure why you think that I need to say that there is ZERO chance of a dramatic transformation in order to maintain a consistency in my position. It would shock me, for sure. My position is that I think we've wasted enough time already waiting for "development", and I don't see "the answer at QB" being part of his future.

Fair enough My point was that I didn’t think I was grossly misrepresenting your position with my original statement, even if the particular words I chose were not a direct quote of yours.

It's cool. I just didn't want to be on record as saying that it's not possible. Anything is possible. It's just looking pretty bleak.

[Z.I.P.]

This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Someone check my trivial memory! Wasn't Sweitzer the QB who also returned kicks? He was, I think, in the top 5 in the nation in kickoff returns (#!?). Though I don't think I ever saw him play, I met his girlfriend, who was a cheerleader with Coleman Crawford's BB team, which visited the isles in 1990. Ahhhh, the legendary headless Zippy trip!

[Dr Z]

[skip-zip]

This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Someone check my trivial memory! Wasn't Sweitzer the QB who also returned kicks? He was, I think, in the top 5 in the nation in kickoff returns (#!?). Though I don't think I ever saw him play, I met his girlfriend, who was a cheerleader with Coleman Crawford's BB team, which visited the isles in 1990. Ahhhh, the legendary headless Zippy trip!

Good Memory!! He returned kicks early in his career before he became the starter after Mike Johnson graduated. So, i'm sure you can recall that he had a lot of speed. He was a great fit at QB in that Pass-And-Pitch offense that we ran during his time at QB, and afterwards with Marcel Weems. Dr. Z...great pic !!

[akronzips71]

PN7 won one game last year. He is a loser.Tonto's better half will be the starter. He could not possibly do any worse.

[MaxZIP]

PN7 won one game last year. He is a loser.Tonto's better half will be the starter. He could not possibly do any worse.

Harsh. Pretty much everything was wrong last year. No bright spots. Pn7 is not the only zip at fault.

[Blue & Gold]

GREAT pic! That's my era! And we need to get back to games being broadcast on WZIP. I'm almost entirely out of touch with this now, but 15 years ago that was one of, if not the most popular stations for high school kids. Great marketing for the university.

[Captain Kangaroo]

PN7 won one game last year. He is a loser.Tonto's better half will be the starter. He could not possibly do any worse.

Harsh. Pretty much everything was wrong last year. No bright spots. Pn7 is not the only zip at fault.

Brian Wagner only won 1 game last year. Is he a loser too?

[xu9697]

PN7 won one game last year. He is a loser.Tonto's better half will be the starter. He could not possibly do any worse.

Harsh. Pretty much everything was wrong last year. No bright spots. Pn7 is not the only zip at fault.

Brian Wagner only won 1 game last year. Is he a loser too?

YES! And NO!los·er (lzr)n.1. a. One that fails to win: the losers of the game.b. One who takes loss in a specified way: a graceful loser; a poor loser.2. a. One that fails consistently, especially a person with bad luck or poor skills: "losers at home seeking wealth and glory in undeveloped countries" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)b. One that is bad in quality: That book is a real loser.If you take #1...he is. If you take #2..he is not. Still not sure where Nicely fits...I have been a supporter, but he regressed last year (like that's news!).

[Zipmeister]

PN7 won one game last year. He is a loser.Tonto's better half will be the starter. He could not possibly do any worse.

Harsh. Pretty much everything was wrong last year. No bright spots. Pn7 is not the only zip at fault.

Brian Wagner only won 1 game last year. Is he a loser too?

YES, he is, but with really good individual stats.

[UA Fan]

This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Someone check my trivial memory! Wasn't Sweitzer the QB who also returned kicks? He was, I think, in the top 5 in the nation in kickoff returns (#!?). Though I don't think I ever saw him play, I met his girlfriend, who was a cheerleader with Coleman Crawford's BB team, which visited the isles in 1990. Ahhhh, the legendary headless Zippy trip!

You're probably right about that and I know he had a gun for an arm throwing out runners from third base as a baseball Zip.

[Z.I.P.]

This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Someone check my trivial memory! Wasn't Sweitzer the QB who also returned kicks? He was, I think, in the top 5 in the nation in kickoff returns (#!?). Though I don't think I ever saw him play, I met his girlfriend, who was a cheerleader with Coleman Crawford's BB team, which visited the isles in 1990. Ahhhh, the legendary headless Zippy trip!

You're probably right about that and I know he had a gun for an arm throwing out runners from third base as a baseball Zip.

Sweitzer was from Indianapolis area. His brother played (DB, I think) for Miami (O). I think it was 91 that his GF was in Hawaii. Coleman, I think is still coaching in Dallas.

[johnnyzip84]

This was pre-BCS, but I think Jeff Sweitzer may have gotten knocked out of a game against the Gators in Gainseville circa 1990. So it seems like it's been a while.

Someone check my trivial memory! Wasn't Sweitzer the QB who also returned kicks? He was, I think, in the top 5 in the nation in kickoff returns (#!?). Though I don't think I ever saw him play, I met his girlfriend, who was a cheerleader with Coleman Crawford's BB team, which visited the isles in 1990. Ahhhh, the legendary headless Zippy trip!

You're probably right about that and I know he had a gun for an arm throwing out runners from third base as a baseball Zip.

Sweitzer was from Indianapolis area. His brother played (DB, I think) for Miami (O). I think it was 91 that his GF was in Hawaii. Coleman, I think is still coaching in Dallas.

Are you sure about that? I recall Jeff being from West Virginia (Brooke HS?).