arena project going forward?

[akzipper]

It would be nice to have baseball play in Canal Park more often. We could schedule around the Aeros easily enough.As far as a new arena goes, the JAR is undersized in the MAC. The average MAC arena has 7,769 seats. Only WMU, CMU, and BG have smaller arenas than us and everyone else has at least 6k seats. So a new Arena should have 8k seats, minimum. That would still put us behind sush powerhouse basketball programs at Eastern Michigan and Northern Illinois.Don't tell me that it would always be empty. That shouldn't matter, anyways. It's more important that it's really nice and luxurious. You oversize it for two reasons: potential and recruiting. Potential for this team to string together several years of NCAA tournament appearances and make a run in one or two of them is there, and you don't want a crappy arena to hamper that. An arena, like a football stadium, is usually the only physical form of interaction between fans and a university. It's all they see and all they base their impressions on, so it had better be impressive. And with recruiting these days, kids would rather play in a really nice, huge arena that's three-quarters empty than a three-quarters full dump.

I agree building a bigger arena shows a desire to make it to a bigger stage. Unlike stadiums, an arena cannot expand. If people see a new arena being built with 5000 like BG did, it sends the message that they are getting ready to be a mediocre team in the MAC for a long time. Although we are a mediocre team, I'd like to think that someday they would like to be more.

[GoZips]

I'm about to blow ya'lls mind. I am sick of building a baseball field over there behind Cub Cadent. There is no reason for that when UA can strike a deal with the Aeros and play in that ball park. That would be ideal for sure. Then, we take that space where the baseball field is and build the basketball arena. That way we have Info and the new basketball arena right next to each other, plus the baseball team will get to play at a minor league (great) stadium. The JAR is....excuse me, A DUMP. The eye sore that is those blue seats are sickening. Akron deserves better.

+1A couple of excellent ideas.No way should the University tie in with the city of Akron on an arena.The current mayor is hell bent on a minor league hockey team. We needa true basketball arena better than CSU's poorly designed convo.Any money, even the new player lounges is pouring money down a rat holewhen spent on the JAR.As a stop gap, converting the bleachers to chair backs along the length of thecourt would be a help and not overly costly. The four corner pillars support theroof of the JAR. Thus, nothing can be done with the corners.Think about this: Adding an extra row of seats in the lower end zones by replacingthe existing seating with ones that rise steeper. Then, make this the home ofthe ROWDIES and guests at both ends. No blue hairs allowed.

[GP1]

Don't tell me that it would always be empty. That shouldn't matter, anyways. It's more important that it's really nice and luxurious. You oversize it for two reasons: potential and recruiting. Potential for this team to string together several years of NCAA tournament appearances and make a run in one or two of them is there, and you don't want a crappy arena to hamper that. An arena, like a football stadium, is usually the only physical form of interaction between fans and a university. It's all they see and all they base their impressions on, so it had better be impressive. And with recruiting these days, kids would rather play in a really nice, huge arena that's three-quarters empty than a three-quarters full dump.

OK then. How are you going to pay for it short term and long term if nobody shows up? If it was as easy and reasonable as you say, it would be done already.

[ZippyRulz]

I'm about to blow ya'lls mind. I am sick of building a baseball field over there behind Cub Cadent. There is no reason for that when UA can strike a deal with the Aeros and play in that ball park. That would be ideal for sure. Then, we take that space where the baseball field is and build the basketball arena. That way we have Info and the new basketball arena right next to each other, plus the baseball team will get to play at a minor league (great) stadium. The JAR is....excuse me, A DUMP. The eye sore that is those blue seats are sickening. Akron deserves better.

I dont think a deal can be struck with the aeros for daily practice and all our games at canal park...too much wear and tear and the lease would be prohibitive. Maybe baseball and track could move south of exchange if university park alliance can get the land.

[ZachTheZip]

Don't tell me that it would always be empty. That shouldn't matter, anyways. It's more important that it's really nice and luxurious. You oversize it for two reasons: potential and recruiting. Potential for this team to string together several years of NCAA tournament appearances and make a run in one or two of them is there, and you don't want a crappy arena to hamper that. An arena, like a football stadium, is usually the only physical form of interaction between fans and a university. It's all they see and all they base their impressions on, so it had better be impressive. And with recruiting these days, kids would rather play in a really nice, huge arena that's three-quarters empty than a three-quarters full dump.

OK then. How are you going to pay for it short term and long term if nobody shows up? If it was as easy and reasonable as you say, it would be done already.

Usually how these things work is that you secure a certain amount of funding first and then build the best facility you can with that. So my answer to your question is that we would pay for it the exact same way that we would pay for a smaller arena. Last time, we got screwed when we hired a terrible architect to build a scaled down version of what was originally planned to be a gorgeous, 10,000 seat arena. Instead we got the JAR. Hire a better architect and we can get what we need for a relatively cheap price.

[GP1]

Usually how these things work is that you secure a certain amount of funding first and then build the best facility you can with that.

Where is the money going to come from? If I remember, half of The Big Dialer was paid for with public money. The state is broke. It isn't like it was 5 years ago when money was flowing everywhere. The University doesn't have the money to build it or maintain it once built. It's one thing to build something, it's another thing to maintain something once built. The University can't afford a BB arena right now.

[Doug Snyder]

Usually how these things work is that you secure a certain amount of funding first and then build the best facility you can with that.

Where is the money going to come from? If I remember, half of The Big Dialer was paid for with public money. The state is broke. It isn't like it was 5 years ago when money was flowing everywhere. The University doesn't have the money to build it or maintain it once built. It's one thing to build something, it's another thing to maintain something once built. The University can't afford a BB arena right now.

@Zach...Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. @GP1...People never have a problem spending other peoples money.

[Doug Snyder]

I'm about to blow ya'lls mind. I am sick of building a baseball field over there behind Cub Cadent. There is no reason for that when UA can strike a deal with the Aeros and play in that ball park. That would be ideal for sure. Then, we take that space where the baseball field is and build the basketball arena. That way we have Info and the new basketball arena right next to each other, plus the baseball team will get to play at a minor league (great) stadium. The JAR is....excuse me, A DUMP. The eye sore that is those blue seats are sickening. Akron deserves better.

We will never play at Aeros stadium. It would be cost prohibitive. Baseball will never be played at the highest level in the north.But I like the idea of placing the new arena where the current baseball field is. Baseball can be relocated to a less advantageous location as it is not a revenue sport. Basketball needs a great arena in an ideal location.

[ZachTheZip]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

[Dave in Green]

One point about basketball is that there are many more games than football, and most of them are evening or weekend afternoon games. This really invites combining a basketball game with a dinner or lunch out -- either an early one before the game or a late one after. The friendliest setup for something like that would be to have the basketball arena within easy walking distance of downtown restaurants and parking decks. That's one factor in favor of a downtown arena right on the western border of the UA campus.The same reasoning would also apply to other events at this facility. Some people would be more likely to attend if they could combine the evening or weekend afternoon event with dinner or lunch at one of the nice downtown restaurants, all within easy walking distance of the major downtown parking decks.But that's just one factor. There are other factors that favor having a basketball arena close to the other UA sports facilities. It doesn't really matter that much to me. But for the folks signing the loan agreements to get this done, every little point must be considered and added to the bottom line. It's important to them that the facility be financially successful and not just get good reviews from a few rabid basketball fans on ZN.o.

[GP1]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

Good ideas. Now, what is your plan to pay for it and maintain it once it is buillt?

[ZachTheZip]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

Good ideas. Now, what is your plan to pay for it and maintain it once it is buillt?

If we build it strictly for basketball, we'll never be able to pay for it even if we put in some high priced luxury suites and sell them off to local companies. But if we build it to host many different types of events then we can rent it out. Concerts, ice skating, monster truck rallies, and all sorts of crap like that.

[GoZips]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

Good ideas. Now, what is your plan to pay for it and maintain it once it is buillt?

If we build it strictly for basketball, we'll never be able to pay for it even if we put in some high priced luxury suites and sell them off to local companies. But if we build it to host many different types of events then we can rent it out. Concerts, ice skating, monster truck rallies, and all sorts of crap like that.

As soon as I see the word "ice" I get nervous.Any arena large enough to house an ice rink is too damn big for basketball.The university needs a new. larger, better basketball arena. It does not need anything that houses an ice rink.An ice rink is the kiss of death for basketball. It simply does not work at the college level.

[Dave in Green]

We've already discussed the dimensions of a hockey rink in another thread, and they appear not to create a major problem as long as there is flexible seating at the ends that are optimized for basketball first and hockey second, not the other way around.I do recall reading about another problem with basketball courts laid over ice rinks, however. I remember reading instances of condensation forming on basketball courts when there was ice under them, and the condensation leading to problems with basketball players losing their footing and slipping.Considering this, I would only want to see a hockey rink included in the arena if it was a make-or-break deal, and if it employed the best possible engineering design to eliminate any problems for basketball.Otherwise, I'd be dead set against including a hockey rink in an arena on speculation that enough interest in hockey could be drummed up in Akron to justify the increased costs. I seriously doubt there'd be many paying customers for hockey in Akron.

[ziptrumpet87]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

Good ideas. Now, what is your plan to pay for it and maintain it once it is buillt?

IIRC, the story and KUD's web site talk about using a combined development program to "self-finance" (building dorms/retail that financed the arean in UCF's case). This could be done similarly by finishing the condo development there by Don Drumm's place to finance an arena there on Exchange near Rte 8.There is also some land that UA owns on Market next to the RR tracks that could also be developed similarly and would be closer to some of the dining and parking on the north side of town as DiG mentioned.

[infofan]

We've already discussed the dimensions of a hockey rink in another thread, and they appear not to create a major problem as long as there is flexible seating at the ends that are optimized for basketball first and hockey second, not the other way around.I do recall reading about another problem with basketball courts laid over ice rinks, however. I remember reading instances of condensation forming on basketball courts when there was ice under them, and the condensation leading to problems with basketball players losing their footing and slipping.Considering this, I would only want to see a hockey rink included in the arena if it was a make-or-break deal, and if it employed the best possible engineering design to eliminate any problems for basketball.Otherwise, I'd be dead set against including a hockey rink in an arena on speculation that enough interest in hockey could be drummed up in Akron to justify the increased costs. I seriously doubt there'd be many paying customers for hockey in Akron.

I agree that hockey is a long shot to make it in Akron. However to make any arena project feasible you have to fill dates! And much more than the 16 dates that mens basketball would fill. Lets be rreasonable. As much as any of us would love a new arena, is it worth 60-80 million to build a facility that will be used 16 times a year? ( can you say Infocision stadium?) Now if you can book 10- 15 concerts ( yes some shows are too small for Q or CSU but too big for EJ or Palace/State theaters. ) That includes shows like TSO that have sold out in Youngstaown in past. 8-12 dates for ice shows ( disney). 3 or 4 WWE wrestling shows. ateempt a handfull of miscelaneous events,Home and garden show, car show, boat show, tennis exhibition hockey, comedians, etc. Host some HS games/tournements. And possibly throw in an NBA D league team that failed in Canton plus a couple globetrotter games. You have then maybe 120 dates of usage- that might be doable. Has anyone here been to or seen the Huntington center in Toledo? Nice size for our needs and its in use all the time! They had to turn down an NBA d league franchise due to lack of available dates.

[zippy5]

We own a whole city block west of Brown Street. It has a bigger footprint than our baseball field and the JAR. Why not put the arena there? You can walk across Wheeler to get to Manny's. That whole neighborhood is off-campus student housing and has cleaned up in recent years (a few blocks south or west is an entirely different story), and an arena there would help that process along.

Good ideas. Now, what is your plan to pay for it and maintain it once it is buillt?

If we build it strictly for basketball, we'll never be able to pay for it even if we put in some high priced luxury suites and sell them off to local companies. But if we build it to host many different types of events then we can rent it out. Concerts, ice skating, monster truck rallies, and all sorts of crap like that.

As soon as I see the word "ice" I get nervous.Any arena large enough to house an ice rink is too damn big for basketball.The university needs a new. larger, better basketball arena. It does not need anything that houses an ice rink.An ice rink is the kiss of death for basketball. It simply does not work at the college level.

You guys are acting like it's 1975. The technology is there, it'll be fine. Consol Energy Center opened last year in Pittsburgh and Pitt and Duquesne each played a few games there. Each time the announcers raved on and on about how nice the place was for basketball. Ever hear of the Kohl Center? The Badgers do pretty well. RBC Center? Bradley Center? Madison Square Garden? Not to mention our's would be smaller and more intimate than, well, all of those. If it helps bring a new arena, and new things to Akron, I'm for it. It really isn't going to be a difference if it has a rink or not.

[Pack_The_MAC]

I'm about to blow ya'lls mind. I am sick of building a baseball field over there behind Cub Cadent. There is no reason for that when UA can strike a deal with the Aeros and play in that ball park. That would be ideal for sure. Then, we take that space where the baseball field is and build the basketball arena. That way we have Info and the new basketball arena right next to each other, plus the baseball team will get to play at a minor league (great) stadium. The JAR is....excuse me, A DUMP. The eye sore that is those blue seats are sickening. Akron deserves better.

I dont think a deal can be struck with the aeros for daily practice and all our games at canal park...too much wear and tear and the lease would be prohibitive. Maybe baseball and track could move south of exchange if university park alliance can get the land.

Wait, the baseball team practice's?

[Dr Z]

Consol Energy Center opened last year in Pittsburgh and Pitt and Duquesne each played a few games there. Each time the announcers raved on and on about how nice the place was for basketball.

I hear that place is unreal. I can't sniff a ticket for there. I was looking to go to a game on Dec 29th, check out the ticket prices for 4 if your bored!?!? If anybody has a hookup for that game pm me. Check out the schedule of events.

[Dave in Green]

I just took a virtual tour of the Consol Energy Center on their website, and there is no question that it's optimized for Pittsburgh Penguins NHL hockey games and is compromised for basketball.You can look at a detailed seating arrangement for each event, and it's really nice for hockey.On the other hand, if you look at the detailed seating for a basketball game, there are 10 rows of individual folding chairs set up at floor level at each end and 3 rows of chairs on each side. The first raised permanent seats for basketball are pushed way back from the court.This is a great example of something that Zips basketball fans would hate. We need a tight, intimate arena where the permanent seats start right on the edge of the court and go up at a steep angle. This would give all basketball fans a great view of the court. Getting us closer to the court might help generate more noise and enthusiasm from the fans, which can rattle visiting teams and produce more of a home court advantage.Surely there's a better example of a multi-use arena that's optimized for basketball first.Consol Energy Center Basketball Seating Chart

[Dave in Green]

You can see from the photo at the link below how far back the permanent seating is for basketball at Consol Energy Center. It looks like a glorified version of the Q -- nice, big facility for all kinds of events that draw more than 10k spectators, but nowhere near tight and intimate enough for a mid-major college basketball team.Consol Energy Center Basketball Seating Photo

[zippy5]

Yeah there's 50+ hockey games there a year and maybe 6 bball games. My point was for having next to zero emphasis placed on basketball arrangements, everyone still loved it for the basketball games.

[zippy5]

Consol Energy Center opened last year in Pittsburgh and Pitt and Duquesne each played a few games there. Each time the announcers raved on and on about how nice the place was for basketball.

I hear that place is unreal. I can't sniff a ticket for there. I was looking to go to a game on Dec 29th, check out the ticket prices for 4 if your bored!?!? If anybody has a hookup for that game pm me. Check out the schedule of events.

You're telling me. It's nuts. Used to grab Pens tix at the igloo for 20-40 bucks and now I'm lucky if i find anything under 80.

[Spin]

You can see from the photo at the link below how far back the permanent seating is for basketball at Consol Energy Center. It looks like a glorified version of the Q -- nice, big facility for all kinds of events that draw more than 10k spectators, but nowhere near tight and intimate enough for a mid-major college basketball team.Consol Energy Center Basketball Seating Photo

Now you're talking about the SIZE of the arena more than the flooring arrangement. Akron wouldn't need (or could afford) anything NEAR that size, nobody would be that far away because the building would be a lot smaller.The noise level and intimacy would be much better in a smaller arena. Even the CSU Convo (seating 13,000) is bigger than Akron needs. Yet the crowd is right there in basketball configuration.This is a 20 year old system. I've seen other arenas that had stands move out to the court from where CSU's curtain is, out to where the alumni band sits. It's workable.I just think it would be an easier sell, and a much more useful building, if it could also house hockey, indoor soccer, indoor lacrosse, arena football, monster trucks, on and on. And not just for spectator sports, but also intramural sports and just plain fitness/play.And to answer someone else, the hockey ice problem I remember was in an arena built in 1928.

[Dave in Green]

I did not intend to put major emphasis on the overall size of the facility, but wanted the focus to stay on the distance between the basketball court and the first row of permanent seats. The proximity of the first row of permanent seats from the basketball court and the steepness of the rows of seats as they go up really define the basketball viewing experience.