The Arena

[Spin]

I do not want to be closed minded to hockey here, but I just don't think that the optimal basketball experience should be compromised when we don't even have a disney-fistfight-on-ice program here anyway

Repeating post #90...

Why limit it to, what, 16 dates a year? Is the city going to pay for that???

When for not much more, they can have an arena capable of handling hockey, indoor soccer, arena football, ice capades, circuses, monster trucks, rodeos, motocross, all of the things that Youngstown, Toledo, Wheeling, and dozens of other cities Akron's size brings in. Hell, Canton.

Maybe we get an arena football team, minor league hockey team. Indoor soccer. Minor league basketball. You won't go, so what? Well those events would only help revitalize downtown. The way the minor league baseball team has. Better restaraunts, better bars. Maybe a theater. More places to go. More money coming in to the local economy from the suburbs. More things to do before and after Zips games. wink.gif

[g-mann17]

Repeating post #90...

Why limit it to, what, 16 dates a year? Is the city going to pay for that???

When for not much more, they can have an arena capable of handling hockey, indoor soccer, arena football, ice capades, circuses, monster trucks, rodeos, motocross, all of the things that Youngstown, Toledo, Wheeling, and dozens of other cities Akron's size brings in. Hell, Canton.

Maybe we get an arena football team, minor league hockey team. Indoor soccer. Minor league basketball. You won't go, so what? Well those events would only help revitalize downtown. The way the minor league baseball team has. Better restaraunts, better bars. Maybe a theater. More places to go. More money coming in to the local economy from the suburbs. More things to do before and after Zips games. wink.gif

+1

[zen]

Repeating post #90...

Why limit it to, what, 16 dates a year? Is the city going to pay for that???

When for not much more, they can have an arena capable of handling hockey, indoor soccer, arena football, ice capades, circuses, monster trucks, rodeos, motocross, all of the things that Youngstown, Toledo, Wheeling, and dozens of other cities Akron's size brings in. Hell, Canton.

Maybe we get an arena football team, minor league hockey team. Indoor soccer. Minor league basketball. You won't go, so what? Well those events would only help revitalize downtown. The way the minor league baseball team has. Better restaraunts, better bars. Maybe a theater. More places to go. More money coming in to the local economy from the suburbs. More things to do before and after Zips games. wink.gif

cool story bro.

We HAVE a basketball team worth building an arena for.

They are not a fantasy, a figment, or a hope

[ROCK1]

There are no credible statistics out there that shown an appreciable fan increase in a new or renovated MAC arena. New/Newer/Renovated arenas at BG,Toledo, NIU, EMU and CMU have not increased attendance. In fact, for some, attendance has gone down.

It's true that the above schools haven't had good teams recently, but the point still remains that the existing fan base wasn't increased by adding better seats, restrooms, food, parking and other amenities.

Winning will help, but not as much as you might think.

[zippy5]

There are no credible statistics out there that shown an appreciable fan increase in a new or renovated MAC arena. New/Newer/Renovated arenas at BG,Toledo, NIU, EMU and CMU have not increased attendance. In fact, for some, attendance has gone down.

It's true that the above schools haven't had good teams recently, but the point still remains that the existing fan base wasn't increased by adding better seats, restrooms, food, parking and other amenities.

Winning will help, but not as much as you might think.

None of those schools have anywhere near the success we have had.

[Dave in Green]

@ROCK1, you bring up a good point: It's important to benchmark what has happened to attendance at other places that built new arenas in order to estimate what kind of attendance bump the Zips basketball team might expect from a replacement for the JAR.

It takes a combination of good facilities, good marketing, a winning team and a motivated fanbase to get the best attendance.

It should be possible to measure what happened to attendance at other places where nothing changed significantly except for replacing an old arena with a new one.

[GP1]

None of those schools have anywhere near the success we have had.

I think that is partly his point. We have had huge success and we don't draw well. That's just a fact. I don't know exactly why that is, but the arena isn't helping. I struggle going from the JAR is horrible to....we need a 10,000 seat arena built and everyone will show up. They will short term, but not long term. We brought in a Final Four team a couple of weeks ago and did not sell out even though we had our new nationally known football coach being introduced. Bringing in a Final Four participant is a HUGE deal and nobody showed up.

NE Ohio sports fans are desperate for a winner....in football. They like winners in baseball and basketball, but they would LOVE to have a winner in football. If the Browns ever just got to 8 or 9 wins, fans would be crazy happy.

Hockey? Two words, Lumberjacks....Barons. NE Ohio has been proven to not support hockey. We should not go into bed with the City in the hopes that somehow the public will support hockey.

In a world of an endless stream of money, a new arena would be nice. Until we find the endless stream of money, they need to find a way to make the JAR work better.

[akzipper]

I think that is partly his point. We have had huge success and we don't draw well. That's just a fact. I don't know exactly why that is, but the arena isn't helping. I struggle going from the JAR is horrible to....we need a 10,000 seat arena built and everyone will show up. They will short term, but not long term. We brought in a Final Four team a couple of weeks ago and did not sell out even though we had our new nationally known football coach being introduced. Bringing in a Final Four participant is a HUGE deal and nobody showed up.

NE Ohio sports fans are desperate for a winner....in football. They like winners in baseball and basketball, but they would LOVE to have a winner in football. If the Browns ever just got to 8 or 9 wins, fans would be crazy happy.

Hockey? Two words, Lumberjacks....Barons. NE Ohio has been proven to not support hockey. We should not go into bed with the City in the hopes that somehow the public will support hockey.

In a world of an endless stream of money, a new arena would be nice. Until we find the endless stream of money, they need to find a way to make the JAR work better.

Look at BG's arena. It is pathetic and looks like it deserves to be for a D2, D3, or even a high school. Do we really want to make the same mistake as them? Do we want to build a 5k-6k arena and show the rest of the country we are content being mediocre team in the MAC. Unlike the rest of the conference, we strive to be competitive nationally, not just in the MAC. We have a coach, we have a foundation to be competitive, we have reputation, we have fans, and all we need is a great place to play.

Building Infocision showed the country we are serious about football. When we build 60 million+ stadiums, other schools in the MAC (Can't State) are spending a few million to put in a scoreboard. The difference between football stadiums and basketball arenas is that stadiums can be expanded, but arenas are built and stuck at that attendance. Building a 9k-10k arena shows that we have a plan. We want to be great, and we are better than these rinky dink schools in the MAC.

Big arenas bring in recruits, they bring in concerts and other shows, they bring in minor league teams. And people who don't think Akron can support a minor league hockey team. The Lake Erie Monsters were 2nd in the AHL attendance last year.

Now the question is why would a bigger arena fill, when we can't even fill a 6k one.

Break it down like this. Why don't people attend now?

The Jar is old. No surprise people don't want to go to games. The seating is uncomfortable, there are only 1 set of bathrooms, 1 concession area, 1 lounge, and 1 team shop. Its tough to watch games from the upper level with people walking in front of you. The student seating is small and split into two sections. There is no club level or suites. No press level or pressbox for camera crews, etc so they are forced to set up on the track. Jumbotron above center court is old, has bad picture, and scoreboards behind students are old and not even full color. As a result of the small arena we also can't get big opponents to visit for OOC schedule.

How do we fix it?

Build a new arena. Have seats throughout the arena and no bleachers! The only place bleachers could be acceptable would be in the student sections, hopefully forcing them to stand. Now add restrooms, concessions, a walk-in team shop like at Infocision, and even possibly a game day restaurant. All in concourses BEHIND the seating areas. Create a club level that provides catered food and alcohol, with lounges to socialize with other fans pregame and during halftime. Now for students, take half of the lower bowl and designate it for them and the band. Keeping them together would create a larger united student section similar to First Energy Stadium. Give them Rowdy Rags for every game! Put in a HD videoboard at center court, and ribbon boards around the arena to show scores and ads.

Probably not suggestions that haven't been made already, just giving my input

[Spin]

You guys are looking at this solely through he eyes of the Zips MBB program. Well guess what, that's not where the money is coming from. The city is going to do what it thinksis in its best interest, not necessarily the best interest of 4000 Zips fans.

Akron will get what Akron needs. I'm sitting in Erie Pa right now, and their arena has something going on c,onstantly.that's what Akron needs. Get off your bias toward hockey, and take a good look around you.

Hockey at the appropriate level (affordable) won't work? Better tell that to Toledo, Wheel8ing, Eried. Wooster.

Arena football won't work? Try telling that to Erie, Wheeing, Canton.

Minor league basketball? Wheeling, Canton.

Monster trucks, arenacross, concerts. That's what Akron needs. Sorry 16 dates fr college basketball is just another tenant to them.

If you dontl ike it, get off your ass, donate the money, and spec what you want. We'll put your name on the front.

Until you or Luis signs the check, we're just along for the ride.

[GP1]

How do we fix it?

Build a new arena. Have seats throughout the arena and no bleachers! The only place bleachers could be acceptable would be in the student sections, hopefully forcing them to stand. Now add restrooms, concessions, a walk-in team shop like at Infocision, and even possibly a game day restaurant. All in concourses BEHIND the seating areas. Create a club level that provides catered food and alcohol, with lounges to socialize with other fans pregame and during halftime. Now for students, take half of the lower bowl and designate it for them and the band. Keeping them together would create a larger united student section similar to First Energy Stadium. Give them Rowdy Rags for every game! Put in a HD videoboard at center court, and ribbon boards around the arena to show scores and ads.

That's fine. Now pay for it.

Is there anyone out there willing to say, "I know we'll never fill it. I know the state is broke, but I don't care. I just want a new arena and I don't care about the costs."

[akzipper]

You guys are looking at this solely through he eyes of the Zips MBB program. Well guess what, that's not where the money is coming from. The city is going to do what it thinksis in its best interest, not necessarily the best interest of 4000 Zips fans.

Akron will get what Akron needs. I'm sitting in Erie Pa right now, and their arena has something going on c,onstantly.that's what Akron needs. Get off your bias toward hockey, and take a good look around you.

Hockey at the appropriate level (affordable) won't work? Better tell that to Toledo, Wheel8ing, Eried. Wooster.

Arena football won't work? Try telling that to Erie, Wheeing, Canton.

Minor league basketball? Wheeling, Canton.

Monster trucks, arenacross, concerts. That's what Akron needs. Sorry 16 dates fr college basketball is just another tenant to them.

If you dontl ike it, get off your ass, donate the money, and spec what you want. We'll put your name on the front.

Until you or Luis signs the check, we're just along for the ride.

I agree, the Tullio Arena may not be in the best shape, but they are going to give it a huge renovation soon. Converting it into more of a horseshoe configuration. They have the Erie Otters a well followed OHL team. Arena football and NBDL have smaller crowds, but other events bring in A LOT of money! From what I understand they will be adding luxury suites and a restaurant as well. Now take that and add a second level and you have a perfect arena for Akron.

That's fine. Now pay for it.

Is there anyone out there willing to say, "I know we'll never fill it. I know the state is broke, but I don't care. I just want a new arena and I don't care about the costs."

How did we pay for the football and soccer stadiums? InfoCision, Summa, Cub Cadet, and FirstEnergy put a lot of money forward. Do you realize how much money some of these Northeast Ohio companies will be willing to put forward to put their name on it? Just face that there's a lot of people with a lot of money! That's not going to be a problem...

People like to complain about tax money going into the stadium. That's why they just look ignorant.

[zippy5]

I agree, the Tullio Arena may not be in the best shape, but they are going to give it a huge renovation soon. Converting it into more of a horseshoe configuration. They have the Erie Otters a well followed OHL team. Arena football and NBDL have smaller crowds, but other events bring in A LOT of money! From what I understand they will be adding luxury suites and a restaurant as well. Now take that and add a second level and you have a perfect arena for Akron.

How did we pay for the football and soccer stadiums? InfoCision, Summa, Cub Cadet, and FirstEnergy put a lot of money forward. Do you realize how much money some of these Northeast Ohio companies will be willing to put forward to put their name on it? Just face that there's a lot of people with a lot of money! That's not going to be a problem...

People like to complain about tax money going into the stadium. That's why they just look ignorant.

For starters, arenas are surpisingly a bit more expensive than our stadium.

Oregon Arena - 227 mil

We could build one-third of the Yum! Center for 80 million.

UCF's 10K seater (A pretty good comparison of what we want) 113 million.

The Pete costs $148 million- 12K capacity, but obviously not too much bigger than what everyone is asking for.

[akzipper]

For starters, arenas are surpisingly a bit more expensive than our stadium.

Oregon Arena - 227 mil

We could build one-third of the Yum! Center for 80 million.

UCF's 10K seater (A pretty good comparison of what we want) 113 million.

The Pete costs $148 million- 12K capacity, but obviously not too much bigger than what everyone is asking for.

Well Oregon's is the most expensive college specific arena ever built.

-Chaifetz Arena for St. Louis only cost $80million, built in '08. Although I don't like the layout since it's only 1 level.

-Missouri State's JQH Arena cost 67million or UCF's Arena would be perfect if UA built it alone. Pretty affordable too, at least compared to the other arenas mentioned.

[zippy5]

Well Oregon's is the most expensive college specific arena ever built.

-Chaifetz Arena for St. Louis only cost $80million, built in '08. Although I don't like the layout since it's only 1 level.

-Missouri State's JQH Arena cost 67million or UCF's Arena would be perfect if UA built it alone. Pretty affordable too, at least compared to the other arenas mentioned.

How come the Louisville arena cost more than it?

[zippy5]

I do really like UCF's arena, but for almost twice as much as the stadium, you can see why we would need some help funding it.

[akzipper]

How come the Louisville arena cost more than it?

I mentioned college specific arena. Louisville's is used by both UL and the city if I remember correctly.

[scottditzen]

BUT. We haven't averaged 4000 per game since Bob Rupert was the coach. We haven't drawn 3000 since 07-08. So if we go 8000 and attendance doesn't increase by a great amount, maybe the Q's system of curtaining off the upper deck during Monsters games is needed to keep that atmosphere.

I hate that curtain. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[scottditzen]

Hockey? Two words, Lumberjacks....Barons. NE Ohio has been proven to not support hockey. We should not go into bed with the City in the hopes that somehow the public will support hockey.

The Monsters are getting good support. The Dan Gilbert factor plus association with a good franchise (Colorado) has made a big difference.

Believe me, the fan experience is now a world above the Barons and Jacks.

[akzipper]

The Monsters are getting good support. The Dan Gilbert factor plus association with a good franchise (Colorado) has made a big difference.

Believe me, the fan experience is now a world above the Barons and Jacks.

Like I mentioned earlier, they finished 2nd in the league in attendance last year. That can't be bad! Especially being a minor league team, in a city with 3 major sports teams.

[Spin]

Back home again in beautiful suburban Akron. Hopefully with a real keyboard I won't have as many typos, but no guarantees.

Driving back, I came up with the best case scenario for all parties. One thing to consider, some of my coursework taught me to see things from a community perspective, how to benefit the most people. Another thing to consider, I live and work in the Greater Akron "community". What benefits the community benefits me. Maybe I would take my grand kids to the circus or monster trucks if it were in Akron. Maybe I would at lunch in a new restaurant brought in by the year round crowds going to the arena and ballpark. Maybe I become a fan of an indoor soccer team in Akron, like I did one in Richfield. Maybe I would go to concerts again.

So I look at this much differently than the people who only want to come to Akron for college basketball games.

IMO a downtown arena would be a money maker. Not huge profits. But looking at the number of dates places like Covelli and WestBanco and Tullio and Huntington, I'm jealous these other cities has all of this in their communities and we don't. Covelli and Tullio break even at least without sponsorship. Although I doubt one in Akron would have much problem selling naming rights.

Where do the profits go? IMO the best case scenario would be for the University build a downtown arena. Go ahead and laugh. Or be pissed about a few rows of gradually rising seats you won't ever sit in anyhow.

The University gets a new arena, that can be used during the day for recreational purposes by the students (anyone remember them?). The programs get a nice comfortable quaint venue to play. The University gets all of the revenue from all of the other events. And a much bigger naming rights sponsor because of the number of dates it will have events. The community gets a new centerpiece to a new arena/ballpark district. And the MBB program gets free pub from its banners hanging from the rafters, all that history and permanence, for every circus, minor league game, rodeo, concert, and monster truck derby that's held there.

Reality says the U and the city will never work together, the U may or may not get an on campus basketball gym with fancier seats, the city may or may not get a downtown arena that does everything the others have. And by not working together either or both be wasting a lot of our money.

[lance99]

Reality says the U and the city will never work together, the U may or may not get an on campus basketball gym with fancier seats, the city may or may not get a downtown arena that does everything the others have. And by not working together either or both be wasting a lot of our money.

I do not think that is the case. They have tried in the past (crossing the tracks project that gave them the Polsky Building). I want the new arena to be built, however there are two major stumbling blocks in the way IMO:

The Civic

E.J. Thomas hall

We all know that there is a need for a new arena, they would fight to the death to keep "their dates" during the year. I also think that the City is trying not to become The Flats of the early 90's if it is built

[Blue & Gold]

I do not think that is the case. They have tried in the past (crossing the tracks project that gave them the Polsky Building). I want the new arena to be built, however there are two major stumbling blocks in the way IMO:

The Civic

E.J. Thomas hall

We all know that there is a need for a new arena, they would fight to the death to keep "their dates" during the year. I also think that the City is trying not to become The Flats of the early 90's if it is built

You're saying The Civic & EJT would be competitors with the new arena?

That's an interesting thought, but I don't think they would. I think the arena would only host concerts larger than EJ or the Civic could accomodate. The city up north has a few different theaters plus the Q.

[Dave in Green]

The question I would have is how many "big event" venues can NEO sustain? The really big events are going to the Q. No Akron arena is going to compete with the Q for top acts. People from all over NEO go to the Q for big events, and don't expect those big events to show up in places like Youngstown, Canton or Akron.

As lance99 points out, smaller concerts in Akron are already accomodated by the The Civic and E.J. Thomas Hall.

That leaves medium-size events for an Akron Arena. Are there really enough medium-size events that aren't already available at nearby facilities to make it worthwhile for Akron to invest in a new facility? I don't know the answer to that. I'm not advocating one way or the other. I'm just asking the question.

Since there's a proposed new arena in the Akron development plan, I guess the answer from the developers is, yes, there's a market here for a new arena. Exactly what that arena would be and what it would be expected to host has, to my knowledge, not been made public.

[Spin]

That's a good question, a fair question. I think if you look at http://www.covellicentre.com/ you see more what I'm talking about. Or http://wesbancoarena.com/calendar.php

Events that couldn't earn a profit in an 18,000 seat Q, but could do better, in a bigger city, than the 4,000 seat Canton Civic Center. Think of the Aeros in the same market as the Indians and the Scrappers/Captains and the IronMen and Crushers. Each knows its place in the food chain, each does well in its place. And we benefit from that in having a game down the street in a comfortable atmosphere and a major league game up the highway. Maybe you only have time or money for an Aeros game, or the Tribe is on the road.

You also have the situation where the Q is booked solid, and someone else coming into the market can't get any decent dates. When the Force folded, the Lumberjacks came in. When the Crunch started up a year later, there were no weekend dates left at the Coliseum because the Cavs and the Jacks had them all. So they played at the Convo (Wolstein). They didn't take away from each other, and they all had weekend dates. Erie, roughly half the size of Akron, has three sports franchises playing in the winter.

Add competitive Division I college basketball as the anchor, a couple high school doubleheaders, and maybe an MMA event to the assorted events the other smaller arenas book, and the U has another revenue stream, IMO. FWIW.

[UAZip0510]

The question I would have is how many "big event" venues can NEO sustain? The really big events are going to the Q. No Akron arena is going to compete with the Q for top acts. People from all over NEO go to the Q for big events, and don't expect those big events to show up in places like Youngstown, Canton or Akron.

As lance99 points out, smaller concerts in Akron are already accomodated by the The Civic and E.J. Thomas Hall.

That leaves medium-size events for an Akron Arena. Are there really enough medium-size events that aren't already available at nearby facilities to make it worthwhile for Akron to invest in a new facility? I don't know the answer to that. I'm not advocating one way or the other. I'm just asking the question.

Since there's a proposed new arena in the Akron development plan, I guess the answer from the developers is, yes, there's a market here for a new arena. Exactly what that arena would be and what it would be expected to host has, to my knowledge, not been made public.

I know it's outdoor, but Blossom attracts some pretty big acts.