Zips vs Ou

[Dave in Green]

..... Dave, it's funny. I was having some post game discussions as well with some people, and in most respects, we all think that pretty much nothing has changed. Yes, there's some new parts. Some athletic parts that we may not have seen before. And we might be a bit deeper than in most past years. But so much hasn't changed. The styles, both offensively and defensively. The very spread out scoring. The scoring droughts. Not much running. So, I'm really surprised that someone got the impression that the game we saw tonight was something dramatically different from what we've seen before.

The game is still basketball, the conference is still the MAC, the arena is still the JAR and the coach is still KD, so much of what we see will be the same or similar to what we're used to seeing.

The new, more dynamic players and deeper bench are precisely what create the difference in overall team performance compared with previous Zips teams, which is obvious to me. It's taken more time to be obvious how this team is developing due to the nature of integrating 4 new players into the rotation, the suspensions and the injuries. They've had some highs and lows, and there will be more along the way.

The most important measure for me is my internal pessimism meter during the course of a game. There were times during last night's game that previous Zips teams would have had me suffering acute discomfort that they were letting the game get away from them.

I enjoy watching this Zips team even when they're behind without my internal pessimism meter spoiling the show. That's the difference for me. Your mileage may vary.

[skip-zip]

The game is still basketball, the conference is still the MAC, the arena is still the JAR and the coach is still KD, so much of what we see will be the same or similar to what we're used to seeing.

The new, more dynamic players and deeper bench are precisely what create the difference in overall team performance compared with previous Zips teams, which is obvious to me. It's taken more time to be obvious how this team is developing due to the nature of integrating 4 new players into the rotation, the suspensions and the injuries. They've had some highs and lows, and there will be more along the way.

The most important measure for me is my internal pessimism meter during the course of a game. There were times during last night's game that previous Zips teams would have had me suffering acute discomfort that they were letting the game get away from them.

I enjoy watching this Zips team even when they're behind without my internal pessimism meter spoiling the show. That's the difference for me. Your mileage may vary.

That's why we live in a free country

I just though it was funny reading your previous post, since I had just had a similar conversation with some people who felt much differently. We'll see how things go.

[burrdie]

Good Morning!

Witnessed the Zips OU game last night and oh my. Also listened to Coach D on UTube. He has his team pegged right, other than the disciiplined part.

I have been going to games for many years including the ND game last year, ardent alumni. This is by far the most talented team in many many years. NOW what do you do with them.

As Coach D said he does it by "feel" not sure that is the best way. Boy he has to have a plan of action. This team could be blowing out all the teams in the MAC.

I hope they can learn to play TOGETHER.

[The Hip Zip]

OU has a lot of offensive options. Cooper and Baltic refuse to give the ball up. Nick Kellog is one of the best pure shooters in the league. He got half the shots that Baltic and Cooper did. Walter Offutt has proven himself an effective scorer in a variety of different ways. He only got 7 shots. This is absolutely poor coaching on Groce's behalf.

I really don't understand all the praise for Baltic in this thread. The guy played an absolutely miserable game. He made a couple shots early on Zeke and the rest of the game he was a black hole. Every time he got the ball he started trying to run all of these crazy spin moves, pivots, reverses and up fakes. Every time Zeke stayed at home, moved his feet well, and the play ended with Ivo taking a wild shot that had zero chance of going in. Dude was 5-17 from the field last night and pulled down only 3 boards. Nothing at all impressive about that. He needs to learn to pass the ball out of the post once in a while.

Exactly my point. I didn't say that OU lacks talent but when every possession runs through Cooper and Baltic OU themselves limits their options. They didn't or couldn't get anything out of their wing players. It's all good for them when Baltic and Coop have it going but when they are not playing well they just kept running the same stuff over and over again. I don't think that Groce has much of a clue.

[akzipper]

From ESPN:

Meanwhile, in the Mid-American Conference, Akron now has to be considered the favorite after a 68-63 victory over Ohio, which looked so solid in nonconfernece play but has faltered of late. The Zips have wins at Mississippi State and Marshall. If they make the NCAA tournament, look out.

From Here

[burrdie]

From ESPN:

From Here

I agree completely, just hope the guys realize what they have and run with it.

Team play a must.

[zipboy]

Good win yesterday, another fun evening in Akron. Some random thoughts from the game.

1. Watching a game like this really makes me appreciate Q. He flows between several positions throughout the game and is versatile enough to allow others to play well in their roles. Last year Q did some of the things that Harney is doing now, instant offense off the bench, the ability to get to the room. Q has moved over to other areas, PG, lockdown D (he was good in the zone last year but is much better in man to man nowZ) which has made the team better. I thought AA was great on Cooper the whole game. 1st break for AA, and Q comes in to take over guarding Cooper. At that point I thought Cooper has got to feel this pressure the whole game, we can just keep running guys at him. He needs to make FTs. I don't mind the T (the refs were quick to trigger) and I like that he plays with an edge to him, kind of how Tree comes across as well. Great game, Q.

2. The two guys who need to get 30 minutes a night, AA and Zeke were fantastic. AA was in control and he nor the team lost sight of Cooper once the whole time. No step back wide open 3's, no sagging, mentally everyone looked to be in it. Last year AA let Cooper get to him, not this year, composure was excellent. And good to see AA get 30 minutes not 35+ to win the game. Q played great at PG when needed. And Zeke was a man down low. The way we kept going inside reminded me of ND last year and you can see how much better Zeke is offensively.

3. Stevie Taylor hits his one 3 and taunts the Zips bench. Next time down, out of control 3, A few times later Zeke swats him to the 3rd row. I like that we played with composure.

4. First time that I have seen Harney in extended minutes, wow what a first step to the basket. He really is instant offense.

5. Nice to see McClanahan return to the guy that I saw last year.

6. Walsh with 28 minutes, more than remember, quiet offensive game but 7 boards and all around good game.

7. All 9 guys in the rotation played at crunch time and made plays when needed.

8. OU misses Washington, a big that ran the floor and could score. When they are on, they will be tough. I like our perimeter D better this year vs them. As KD said in the post game, our wings are long.

9. Refs had to call it tight at the end, too much bad blood. The intentional foul on Nik wasn't warranted either but they had to keep it from getting out of hand.

10. They could have called OU for another 15 fouls for all the pushing they did to Zeke in his back.

Let's get one this Wed.

[CincyZip]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the game yesterday and reading through this thread. Last nights game was as exciting as it gets. I, for one, thought the crowed did a good job. Akron played from behind most of the night, and many times they had a chance to take the lead they came up short...until the last few minuets anyway. With that said, when the Zips finally did get over the hump I made the comment that the JAR got almost as loud as I have ever heard it, and I go to every game that I am within 200 miles of campus .

I have been up close and personal with two Zip basketball teams, so my history knowledge of the program is a bit limited. However, I feel that this team is more exciting to watch than last year's team. Treadwell is more exciting to watch than Bardo (I do love my Cincinnati players however) and Harney can take on Darrel Roberts anytime IMO. And of course we have the evolution of the younger players last year that have been great this year (Abreu and Diggs).

So in the conversation of excitement, I would lean towards this years squad. Of course, Last year's squad will always hold a special spot due to the Championship.

[burrdie]

Did anyone notice we were really lacking in offensive rebounds? Not even sure I saw one. Walsh almost had one.

This is a must for future play.

[Dave in Green]

..... Diggs is our best #2 guard and should be starting. He brings a different dynamic to the game than Walsh as he is able to get far more steals (he has over twice as many steals this season as Walsh). A guy like Diggs can turn steals into early points and pressure on the other team. Walsh is a nice player, but the direction of the program lends itself to Diggs starting. .....

I agree with what Rico said in his interview after last night's game:

“We have a real deep group. We are nine-deep and all of us can honestly start.”

KD is still experimenting with those 9 legitimate starters to see which combination of starting 5 plus 4 players coming off the bench ends up producing the best overall game results.

It's not a simple matter of "I like this one guy more than that one guy." It's about how different groups of players work together under different game conditions in different parts of the game. It's about finding 4 potential starters whose egos are not easily bruised by coming off the bench instead of starting.

Q is a great wing player, whether as a wing forward or wing guard. But he's also the best available backup PG on the team. He has to be available to run the point when Rico is resting on the bench.

Walsh is more than a "nice" player. He's by far the Zips' best 3-point shooter (26 of 47 for 55%). Only the Serb, Zeke and Tree have more rebounds than Walsh. He rarely turns the ball over. Walsh's offensive rating, which measures all aspects of offensive play, is the best of any Zips player, 3rd best in the MAC and 83rd best in the country. He's a complete player whose contributions to the team should not be underestimated.

[Dave in Green]

Did anyone notice we were really lacking in offensive rebounds? Not even sure I saw one. Walsh almost had one.

This is a must for future play.

Zips had 10 offensive rebounds to 8 for OU. For the season to date, the Zips are ranked 4th out of 12 MAC teams in offensive rebounding.

[tpsjugglerdude]

Did anyone notice we were really lacking in offensive rebounds? Not even sure I saw one. Walsh almost had one.

This is a must for future play.

Did you miss the possession where Akron got 3 Offensive rebounds? Akron actually had 10 offensive boards vs Ohio's 7.

[Z.I.P.]

Can't believe we couldn't get him courtside seats though! The picture tweeted was from the upper level, c'mon TW if Lebron can sit courtside Bowden def deserves it too! Even I've gotten to sit courtside and I'm not very significant in the sports world. Unless a few division and city championships in my middle and high school years count lol

ESPN didn't show coach Bowden at all, but they did show daddy Kellogg in the second half. Apparently, however the announcers either didn't recognize him, or preferred not to advertise the competition as they never mentioned him by name.

Now on to what was the most obvious thing about this game, namely THE REFS! Those guys were an embarassment to the MAC and to college basketball. I don't often comment on referreeing, as I have several friends who do that job, and I know it is difficult to put yourself in the spectators' bullseye. But, folks in this case, these three took any fun out of what was a great basketball game played by two very good teams. Rarely, if ever have I seen so many touch fouls called -- OK, most of the bad calls were whistled on the Bobcats, so some would say, "keep your mouth shut", but for Pete's sake, if these are the type of officials the MAC sends to such a big game, what do Toledo and Northern Illinois get? Remember the intentional foul call late in the game? HOW, HOW was that justified? And frankly, I didn't think the two-to-zero technical ratio on the little tete-a-tete between Zeke and Cooper was fair -- either Cooper or that knumbskull on the OU bench deserved one too.

Key stat: Defensive rebounding by Akron -- for the first half and early second, Ohio got almost no offensive boards. That made a difference.

[CincyZip]

ESPN didn't show coach Bowden at all, but they did show daddy Kellogg in the second half. Apparently, however the announcers either didn't recognize him, or preferred not to advertise the competition as they never mentioned him by name.

Now on to what was the most obvious thing about this game, namely THE REFS! Those guys were an embarassment to the MAC and to college basketball. I don't often comment on referreeing, as I have several friends who do that job, and I know it is difficult to put yourself in the spectators' bullseye. But, folks in this case, these three took any fun out of what was a great basketball game played by two very good teams. Rarely, if ever have I seen so many touch fouls called -- OK, most of the bad calls were whistled on the Bobcats, so some would say, "keep your mouth shut", but for Pete's sake, if these are the type of officials the MAC sends to such a big game, what do Toledo and Northern Illinois get? Remember the intentional foul call late in the game? HOW, HOW was that justified? And frankly, I didn't think the two-to-zero technical ratio on the little tete-a-tete between Zeke and Cooper was fair -- either Cooper or that knumbskull on the OU bench deserved one too.

Key stat: Defensive rebounding by Akron -- for the first half and early second, Ohio got almost no offensive boards. That made a difference.

Daddy Kellogg and the rest of the OU crew were being complete, you know what, to the rowdies and UA players the entire night. He whistled at and taunted Zeke to no end. Of course, it wasn't that effective.

And about the officials, MAC refs really are not good. I don't know if there is a rating system or something for conference refs, but the MAC would be on the low end if there was.

[tpsjugglerdude]

ESPN didn't show coach Bowden at all, but they did show daddy Kellogg in the second half. Apparently, however the announcers either didn't recognize him, or preferred not to advertise the competition as they never mentioned him by name.

Now on to what was the most obvious thing about this game, namely THE REFS! Those guys were an embarassment to the MAC and to college basketball. I don't often comment on referreeing, as I have several friends who do that job, and I know it is difficult to put yourself in the spectators' bullseye. But, folks in this case, these three took any fun out of what was a great basketball game played by two very good teams. Rarely, if ever have I seen so many touch fouls called -- OK, most of the bad calls were whistled on the Bobcats, so some would say, "keep your mouth shut", but for Pete's sake, if these are the type of officials the MAC sends to such a big game, what do Toledo and Northern Illinois get? Remember the intentional foul call late in the game? HOW, HOW was that justified? And frankly, I didn't think the two-to-zero technical ratio on the little tete-a-tete between Zeke and Cooper was fair -- either Cooper or that knumbskull on the OU bench deserved one too.

Key stat: Defensive rebounding by Akron -- for the first half and early second, Ohio got almost no offensive boards. That made a difference.

Cooper got a T. Also in regards to Bowden not sitting court side...as I mentioned in the football recruiting thread, it was football recruiting night at the basketball game so Bowden was entertaining the recruits and their families, hence him all over the place.

[phil]

That was a great win yesterday but it seems that our offense and our rebounding are very sluggish in the beginning of the game. In the Miami game there were several putbacks on offensive rebounds (We saw them twice thanks to the Miami feed) and yesterday Ohio had several offensive rebounds in the first half. I noticed we were stuck on 15 for several minutes while we could not put the ball in the basket. Our guys need to get into a better offensive flow the first half and do a better job of keeping the other team off the boards.

I was extremely happy to see Nitro score 10 points. He did it by driving to the basket. Even when he did not score he created scoring opportunities for others. He is a much better player when he does not just sit on the wing waiting for the 3 point shot. Because he is a senior I am hoping that he has a good year. Because there is so much talent on this team, he needs to step up to keep his playing time.

I think Alex had the shots of the game at the end with his drive and 3 pointer. It is amazing how each game a different player steps up and makes clutch shots.

I hope the young players realize what a great coach they have and if they work hard and follow Keith's directions this can be an amazing year for Akron B Ball.

[RootforRoo44]

Random thoughts:

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but there was an unidentified new kid warming up with the team. We couldn't find his name anywhere. Supposedly he is a replacement on the roster for Green, but he is definitely a smaller guy. I heard that they just found him playing basketball at the rec or something.

His name is Luke Avsec...

INFO

[OZoner]

OU has a lot of offensive options. Cooper and Baltic refuse to give the ball up. Nick Kellog is one of the best pure shooters in the league. He got half the shots that Baltic and Cooper did. Walter Offutt has proven himself an effective scorer in a variety of different ways. He only got 7 shots. This is absolutely poor coaching on Groce's behalf.

I don't think this is true. Offutt has nobody to blame but himself for how few shots he took. The ball is in his hands often, but he'll pass open looks. Kellogg would get more looks if he fought harder to get open, but sometimes he's content to stay in a spot for a few seconds. Cooper doesn't have great shot selection, but watch how many times they just dump the ball back to him over and over in a possession and then when the shot clock is under 10. His teammates are not accepting enough of the load, and it shows.

Baltic, however, has the tendency to be a black hole. I would collapse on him every time he touches it... or just let him try and post up Marshall for the 35th time.

[Hilltopper]

His name is Luke Avsec...

INFO

From the times I've seen him at practices, he is a very gritty player. I would like to see what he could do in a game.

[burrdie]

Good Morning,

Well, 10 offensive rebounds to 31 defensive rebounds is not the best. When we lost we had 7, 9, 10 rebounds. When we won big we were averaging 13 or so.

I just think that might be something to concentrate on for the future.

I think the reason it was so close is because of the offensive rebounds. Not sure why there is such a difference in the offensive and defensive rebounds?

The guys are so very talented.

Go Zips beat Buffalo.

[Hilltopper]

Because Zeke is trying to block every shot, it takes him out of position for defensive rebounds. On the offensive end, I'm not sure what is happening. Next game I will watch closely to see what Zeke is doing.

[GP1]

Because Zeke is trying to block every shot, it takes him out of position for defensive rebounds.

I'd hate to take his shot blocking aggressiveness away as he has gotten so good at it. No need to rebound if the shots are blocked.

He made maybe the best defensive play I've seen him make when I've had the chance to watch him play Saturday. He switched off and was guarding a guard at the top of the key. The guard should have the driving advantage at this point as they both were so far away from the basket. The guard drove at Zeke and he showed really quick footwork and got into position to block the shot. Very well played. The color guy on ESPN was a former NBA big man and absolutely loved the play.

[Dave in Green]

@Carol, you bring up a good point about the Zips offensive rebounding. I've taken a closer look at MAC stats to see how the Zips compare to other teams in their conference.

Of course, there can be a little bit of apples and organges when it comes to number of rebounds. For example, teams that play at a faster pace and take more shots tend to miss more shots per game, so there are more rebound opportunities. So it's best to look at rebound percentage statistics rather than absolute numbers. Rebound percentage stats are based on the number of rebound opportunities in a game, which is in turn based on the number of missed shots at the offensive and defensive ends.

Even then, there's a disparity in strength of schedules. Teams with the strongest schedules have probably played better rebounding opponents than those with weaker schedules. With that said, let's take a look at the rebounding of MAC teams to date:

The Zips are tied with OU for 8th in the MAC in rebounding percentage at 49.1% (WMU leads at 53.4% and Toledo is 12th at 46.4%).

The Zips are 4th in defensive rebounding percentage at 69.5% (NIU leads at 75.4% and Toledo 12th at 63.5%).

The Zips are 10th in offensive rebounding percentage at 28.8% (WMU leads at 38.2% and EMU is 12th at 25.9%).

So it's fair to say that the raw stats show the Zips to be slightly above average on defensive rebounding percentage, below average on offensive rebounding percentage and slightly below average on total rebounding percentage compared with other MAC teams to date.

One way to improve offensive rebounding would be to give more playing time to the Zips players who are best at offensive rebounding.

It isn't even close when it comes to who has the best offensive rebounding percentage. Tree grabs 17.1% of missed shots at the offensive end when he's on the floor. That's not only best on the Zips team and best in the MAC, that ranks Tree as 5th best in the country. There are only 4 D-I players in the country who grab a higher percentage of offensive rebounds when they're on the floor than Tree. The more minutes Tree plays, the better the Zips' offensive rebounding percentage will be.

The Serb is second to Tree in offensive rebounding percentage at 8.5%, followed by Harney (8.3%) and Zeke (8.2%). Walsh is a distant 5th on the team at 4.4%.

In defensive rebounding percentage, Tree again leads the Zips with a 20.2% rate. The Serb is second on the team at 17.2%, followed by Harney (17%), Marshall (13.8%), Walsh (11.9%) and Diggs (10.2%).

So you could boost the Zips' rebounding percentage by giving more minutes to the best rebounders. But rebounding is only one aspect of the game. There are other statistical categories important to winning, and other Zips players may be stronger in those areas.

It might also benefit the team to place a higher priority for all Zips players to go after rebounds. You'd just need to be careful not to have a focus on rebounding distract players from other aspects of the game where they're playing above average.

Every team is relatively stronger or weaker than other teams in various statistical categories. Ultimately it comes down to the right balance of executing all phases of the game.

[RootforRoo44]

Sure Zeke might be out of position sometimes when he is blocking, but the real issue is he's just not a very good rebounder by form. He, like many of the Zips players, doesn't get in good position for rebounds and doesn't use his body well to move the defender. I think we can all agree he needs to have more of a killer instinct when he plays, but just learning how to properly rebound would be a great start.

Btw, I'm open for coming to practice for proper rebounding instruction of any of the coaches read this.

[CincyZip]

Because Zeke is trying to block every shot, it takes him out of position for defensive rebounds. On the offensive end, I'm not sure what is happening. Next game I will watch closely to see what Zeke is doing.

ON DEFENSIVE

I think something that we must not forget however, is that Zeke not only blocks shots, he alternates many of them as well. I would love to see a stat of the percent of made shots when Zeke is trying to block them. I would be willing to bet it's not many.

ON OFFENSIVE

Me too, He should really be strong in that department.