Conference Re-Alignment?

[Dave in Green]

It just keeps getting crazier and crazier. By the time this round of conference musical chairs is over, everyone will be dissatisfied again and a new round will break out. Maybe the whole concept of conferences is obsolete, and every school should just be an independent.

Cincinnati, UConn talk of new all-sports league, could leverage ACC offer

[lance99]

It just keeps getting crazier and crazier. By the time this round of conference musical chairs is over, everyone will be dissatisfied again and a new round will break out. Maybe the whole concept of conferences is obsolete, and every school should just be an independent.

Cincinnati, UConn talk of new all-sports league, could leverage ACC offer

"Cincinnati, South Florida, Memphis, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV, New Mexico and possibly BYU or Central Florida." They even threw in Duke and Wake Forrest.

Now those are some real winners for a "major" Football conference

[akzipper]

"Cincinnati, South Florida, Memphis, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV, New Mexico and possibly BYU or Central Florida." They even threw in Duke and Wake Forrest.

Now those are some real winners for a "major" Football conference

Better than MAC, C-USA, Mountain West and Sunbelt.

[ziptrumpet87]

Better than MAC, C-USA, Mountain West and Sunbelt.

Throw us in that mix... not bad. Serious upgrade on hoops schedules!

Football in an East/West vs Cinci, Temple, UCF, plus non-con possibilities of still beating Can't every year doesn't sound too bad.

Sounds like it might even be an upgrade for the Socceroos.

[GP1]

But UConn made it's bed, or crapped in it's bed, about 10 years ago when they set into motion the move to 1-A football. It was a money chasing event .. it's probably been profitable for the past several years (not probably .. most definitely) .. and now it lands them in no man's land. There's an editorial in the Courant today which wraps up by saying (paraphrasing) .. "the Big East music has stopped, and only UConn is without a chair."

In the middle of my time there, I think in 92 or 93 .. there was a significant budget crisis in the University. It faced something like a $3-5 million shortfall unless significant restructuring was done. The administration floated the notion of eliminating the School of Allied Health, which I think was comprised of PT, OT and maybe one other. The logic, not entirely flawed, was that it was one of the more expensive departments on campus, due in part to a big expense:student ratio. The projected savings was close to what was needed.

And as the stories GP1 has been sharing with us show .. the AD's & Presidents are going to chase dollars.

Lew Perkins

I'm sure ZW remembers this guy. He put the wheels in motion to bankrupt UCONN with sports programs and nobody had the guts to stop him. Remember guys, the ADs are the problem in college athletics right now.

In the early 90s, UCONN was in the Yankee Conference for football and it was a great league to go watch. RI, UMASS, Maine, Boston U, Richmond, Villanova, UCONN and NH made up much of the league. The games were competitive and UCONN had a great little I-AA stadium right behind their basketball arena. I don't know how they would do it, but they need to find a league like that again.

Lew Perkins shouldn't have been given awards for his time as AD, he should have been taken away in handcuffs. Speaking of handcuffs, he had to resign from Kansas because five of his hand picked guys were stealing money from the University. Rumors were always around UCONN that Perkins was on the take from various contractors associated with the new stadium in Hartford. Lots of money leads to lots of corruption. In our lives, maybe in the next ten years, we will start to see athletic directors arrested for corruption. It's only a matter of time. If anyone thinks the off season stories of players taking money are something, wait till these stories get going.

[Zipmeister]

Throw us in that mix... not bad. Serious upgrade on hoops schedules!

Football in an East/West vs Cinci, Temple, UCF, plus non-con possibilities of still beating Can't every year doesn't sound too bad.

Sounds like it might even be an upgrade for the Socceroos.

Yes, the win percentages of our basketball and football squads would be much closer together than they are at present.

[GP1]

They even threw in Duke and Wake Forrest.

I heard rumors earlier this year about Wake leaving the ACC. I don't know how much of that is true or not. Lots of fans talked about it at games. I don't see how those two schools can compete in football in the future. What the other ACC schools have going for them is they are public institutions and can play games with public money in order to build stadiums, etc.

Duke and Wake are private schools. Duke has a religious affiliation to Methodists and Quakers. Wake is a Baptist school....not exactly a fit for the all Catholic league. Wake recently spent millions in renovations to their off campus stadium and it is still inadequate compared to what the bigger schools can build with public/private money. Duke is a lost cause...their stadium is a hole in the ground with a concrete "U" shaped stadium poured in to it...remember the Rubber Bowl?

I was listening to Coach K talk about the ACC not long ago and he said he was "worried" about the league. My guess is he is worried about Duke and their future. He built that program and is nearing retirement. Duke will fall apart like UCONN is going to fall apart after JC. They are going to be mighty happy they only have that little basketball arena to fill and didn't spend tens of millions on a "building process" for a 20,000 seat arena because there will be a lot of lost interest in their program.

Duke, Wake and UCONN are in big trouble. I think Cincy is in much less trouble than these schools; CUSA would take them back in a second.

[Wally B]

Better than MAC, C-USA, Mountain West and Sunbelt.

Ummm..... actually, USF, Memphis, Temple, SDSU, UNLV, and UCF are not "better" than the MAC. UCF was horrible during its tenure in the MAC, and recent success is largely associate with violations that resulted in sanctions. In fact, Memphis, Temple, and UNLV have been some of the worst d1a programs over the last 20 years. Lets keep this discussion based in reality shall we

One could also postulate that UC a program with a historically marginal record against the MAC at best, and the current state of BYU would place them in the middle of the MAC this year as well.

Remember, we're talking about football here. That's what's driving the train!

[Dave in Green]

GP1, do you hear an echo of what you've been saying from what was said after the official Big East announcement today?

Bearcats men's basketball coach Mick Cronin said Saturday he wasn't surprised by the announcement.

"I don't blame them," Cronin said. "My take is it's a shame that football, one sport, has dictated all this. The money that one sport is swinging around is swaying universities to make decisions. Don't tell me that people care about student-athletes.

"It's all ridiculous. Let's call it what it is. I've thought about this long and hard and I've waited to say this. If it's all about money and money grabbing, the players need to get paid."

Seven schools leaving Big East

[akzipper]

GP1, do you hear an echo of what you've been saying from what was said after the official Big East announcement today?

Bearcats men's basketball coach Mick Cronin said Saturday he wasn't surprised by the announcement.

"I don't blame them," Cronin said. "My take is it's a shame that football, one sport, has dictated all this. The money that one sport is swinging around is swaying universities to make decisions. Don't tell me that people care about student-athletes.

"It's all ridiculous. Let's call it what it is. I've thought about this long and hard and I've waited to say this. If it's all about money and money grabbing, the players need to get paid."

Seven schools leaving Big East

I've always said, pay them $20,000 a year and take away all their scholarships and "special privileges." As someone who has student loans, I have no sympathy for the "student athletes."

[GP1]

I've always said, pay them $20,000 a year and take away all their scholarships and "special privileges."

Pay for their scholarship. Let them have a job. Let them major in whatever sport they play if they want to.

[Zipmeister]

Pay for their scholarship. Let them have a job. Let them major in whatever sport they play if they want to.

Yes, and with possible minors including, takin drugs, burglary, and beeten up women.

[GP1]

GP1, do you hear an echo of what you've been saying from what was said after the official Big East announcement today?

Bearcats men's basketball coach Mick Cronin said Saturday he wasn't surprised by the announcement.

"I don't blame them," Cronin said. "My take is it's a shame that football, one sport, has dictated all this. The money that one sport is swinging around is swaying universities to make decisions. Don't tell me that people care about student-athletes.

"It's all ridiculous. Let's call it what it is. I've thought about this long and hard and I've waited to say this. If it's all about money and money grabbing, the players need to get paid."

Seven schools leaving Big East

Everything the coach said is correct with the exception of paying the players. They players should be able to exploit their fame by having jobs during the off season.

College basketball has been milked dry with the NCAA Tournament. There is no money left to get. Football has dictated this because it is the most popular sport in the US. In addition, athletic directors can dupe university presidents and the taxpayers of the states they work in to finance a building project so they can put it on their resume and move to a higher paying job. With football, you can have many more building projects, thus more opportunities for ADs to pad their resumes....indoor practice stadium, press box renovations, seat expansion, etc.

Anyone who saw the 60 Minutes article a few weeks ago about college football should be left with no doubt that athletic directors are only concerned about money and self promotion. The AD from Michigan was shameless and I felt like I needed a shower after listening to his interview. Waddell was both shameless in saying they play LSU for an "advertisement" and shameful in his self promotion cheering on a player in front of a running camera. Waddell is one of the best self promoters I have ever seen and I take my hat off to this part of his personality. He'll bankrupt and entire state some day. I just hope that state isn't Ohio or South Carolina. When athletic directors run out of things to build, watch out because they will then be able to raise money for themselves.

I make fun of the "building process" a lot because there is a big problem with the building process. It goes directly to why these ADs are so dangerous to the universities they work for and the taxpayers that support public institutions. Think of the athletics "building process" (It has been more of a frenzy than a process.) we have seen nationally the past few years as the housing bubble. It becomes unsustainable financially. After something is built, it costs a heck of a lot more money maintaining a structure than building it. BOMA estimates that only 20% of the life cycle cost of a structure is the construction of that structure. So, all of these schools building one arena or stadium or indoor arena have to maintain them in addition to the rest of the facilities on a campus. I don't know if anyone has noticed over the past few years, but our states have no money. Michigan is so broke they had to issue a $250 million bond for a press box renovation that adds future debt in the form of interest payments and maintenance on the press box. Nobody seems to have the sense to say, "We can't afford all of this freaking stuff!!!!"

I see this movement of Catholic schools to their own conference as something very healthy for them and my get everyone else to get their minds right. They are finally saying, "Enough is enough." Instead of scrambling to start up football programs, new stadium projects, etc., they are just going to have their own league and do well at those things they are capable of doing well at. It might be the best thing for schools like Wake, Duke, Army, Navy, Air Force, Stanford, Baylor, Miami (FL), Vandy and other private schools to follow in their direction. Instead of these schools trying to be something they aren't, they are going to be what they are and be good at it. Hats off to them for understanding their identity. Taxpayers, university presidents, boards of trustees and smart alumni should also be willing to tell their athletic directors, "Enough is enough."

Athletic directors cannot be allowed to continue down the road they are taking, but I fear the monster has gotten so big it can never be wrangled. I've met a lot of very nice people in college athletics, but most aren't the brightest bulbs on the tree. What smart person would want a job like that? It is rare to meet a Mike Thomas, a man who I always felt had a top notch intellect. The norm are people like Mack and Waddell. Nice enough people and decent at the mechanics of their job, but they have second string intellects. Wistrcill is just not a smart guy at all. It amazes me that our states have allowed/are allowing people like this to spend millions, upon millions of dollars of their hard earned money in a manner that will harm taxpayers in the future. Our society has totally lost sight of what universities are for.

[Wally B]

Steering this back to canference affiliation, one could surmise that the MAC is perfectly positioned to p/u Uconn or UCinn, or Temple or whoever from the BE. The contraction of of talent into power conferences has only elevated the MAC's overall position. THat and we have a storied history of taking in football-only programs. So the UC's don wanna bring all sports? Fine, bring your football, maybe only for a few years, but bring'em over. Then take your bb to the a10 or MVC.... Theoretically, this works. Sure the bottom of the MAC sucks.... but so does the bottom of newCusa, and the newSunB simply isn't an option.

The next question is whether the BE will actually collapse. The basketball prowess of the league augmented their football/conference payout. As the $ goes so do the programs.

Boise and SDSU will eventually see the light and stay where they are, as the MWC becomes a solid western conference again. the MAC takes the midwest and NE, while Cusa leads the SBlt in the south/west..... and regional conformity returns

[akzipper]

Pay for their scholarship. Let them have a job. Let them major in whatever sport they play if they want to.

The purpose of school is to get an education. Athletics is secondary. If they don't want to take classes like the rest of us, then don't go to school. They can go to the arena leagues and play for money if they want. Do they want scholarships or do they want to get paid? It can't be both.

[GP1]

Do they want scholarships or do they want to get paid? It can't be both.

Tens of thousands of college students have scholarships and are allowed to hold a job. The players should be able to do the same thing. Other than their scholarship, it wouldn't cost the schools a penny more.

[LZIp]

Tens of thousands of college students have scholarships and are allowed to hold a job. The players should be able to do the same thing. Other than their scholarship, it wouldn't cost the schools a penny more.

I dont see a reason to. 1) Athletes, even at UA, get a nice enough stipend to live comfortably without a "job". 2) I would consider playing sports in college a full-time job, excluding the couple of months a year known as the off season. Many athletes work/intern during their off season. I do not see ANY wanting to work while they are in season.

[GP1]

I dont see a reason to. 1) Athletes, even at UA, get a nice enough stipend to live comfortably without a "job". 2) I would consider playing sports in college a full-time job, excluding the couple of months a year known as the off season. Many athletes work/intern during their off season. I do not see ANY wanting to work while they are in season.

1. As long as they meet their academic and athletic requirements, they should be allowed to do anything they want within the law. It's college athletics, not prison.

2. They are only allowed to earn $2,000 in an academic year. $67.00 per week isn't much money. NCAA rules are mid evil.

I really have no idea why so many people are intent to keep other adults living in poverty and restrict freedom.

[Dave in Green]

The elephant in the room is that there is big money in amateur sports, and whenever there's big money in anything, everyone wants a bigger cut. That's why there's talk of paying the kids bigger money than just a scholarship. You either pay them directly above board, or let them take jobs. If they take jobs, big bucks boosters can phony up jobs and pay the kids big bucks for doing nothing. This will change nothing, because the schools with the most big bucks boosters already have the best players and the best teams. We have become very sophisticated at gaming any system anyone comes up with to create any kind of limits on anything. Anyone who comes up with a workable solution is a true genius. Those who believe they have a solution are mostly fooling themselves.

[LZIp]

1. As long as they meet their academic and athletic requirements, they should be allowed to do anything they want within the law. It's college athletics, not prison.

2. They are only allowed to earn $2,000 in an academic year. $67.00 per week isn't much money. NCAA rules are mid evil.

I really have no idea why so many people are intent to keep other adults living in poverty and restrict freedom.

You seriously think NCAA athletes are living in poverty????LOL, You have to be kidding. Its their choice to play college ball, dont want everything else that comes with it? Dont go to college.

[akzipper]

You seriously think NCAA athletes are living in poverty????LOL, You have to be kidding. Its their choice to play college ball, dont want everything else that comes with it? Dont go to college.

Yeah getting a full ride to college, special privileges, and any girl they want. Wow what a tough life.

So people like me, spend four years in college eating ramen and Rob's cafe food. Lived in dorms that lack heat and hot water (Gallucci Hall). Cannot afford to buy a car, cannot work because of unpaid internships and now left with a ton of student loans.

Yeah I don't feel bad for them....sorry.

[GP1]

You seriously think NCAA athletes are living in poverty????LOL, You have to be kidding. Its their choice to play college ball, dont want everything else that comes with it? Dont go to college.

If they have a yearly disposable income of less than $18,000/year, then yes, they live in poverty. Many come from poverty and the college life is only slightly better than what they grew up in. People who live in the projects get free room and board as well...are they not in poverty?

[GP1]

The elephant in the room is that there is big money in amateur sports, and whenever there's big money in anything, everyone wants a bigger cut. That's why there's talk of paying the kids bigger money than just a scholarship. You either pay them directly above board, or let them take jobs. If they take jobs, big bucks boosters can phony up jobs and pay the kids big bucks for doing nothing. This will change nothing, because the schools with the most big bucks boosters already have the best players and the best teams. We have become very sophisticated at gaming any system anyone comes up with to create any kind of limits on anything. Anyone who comes up with a workable solution is a true genius. Those who believe they have a solution are mostly fooling themselves.

Will the phony jobs be any worse than the money they are currently being handed in envelops?

If a booster pays a player $100,000 for doing nothing, so what? Bankers here in Charlotte made multi million dollar bonuses before the downturn for running the country into the ground. They provided little to no value to our society. We would have been better off paying them all $100,000/year for doing nothing.

It's never going to be perfect, but let's at least get it above board.

[GP1]

Yeah getting a full ride to college, special privileges, and any girl they want. Wow what a tough life.

So people like me, spend four years in college eating ramen and Rob's cafe food. Lived in dorms that lack heat and hot water (Gallucci Hall). Cannot afford to buy a car, cannot work because of unpaid internships and now left with a ton of student loans.

Yeah I don't feel bad for them....sorry.

Why should they have to sacrifice money for your decisions? This isn't about you, it is about their freedom. You make your choices, they should be free to make theirs.

[LZIp]

Why should they have to sacrifice money for your decisions? This isn't about you, it is about their freedom. You make your choices, they should be free to make theirs.

They are free to make theirs. THEY DONT HAVE TO PLAY COLLEGE SPORTS..They dont have to get a free college education, clothes, unlimited food, free boardind, and a stipend that lets them live comfortably (I dont care about what is technically in poverty or not, every college kid is).Man they sure have a tough life. Not only that, but like I said earlier, you are way off if you think any athlete is going to work during the season. They just cant. Its a full time job.