The Concussion Thread

[K92]

Saw this on zerohedge, of all places.

Some of the comments made me giggle.

[akronzips71]

This is all assuming that jurors are going to be sympathetic to consenting adults who are paid millions of dollars to go out and play hard.

Put me on the jury. No money for them. They know the risks and accept them to be big rich stars.

What a slippery slope. Next we have to sue NASCAR because race car drivers get hurt in races.

If there is too much risk and no one plays football, so be it.

But you can not save people from themselves.

[GP1]

They know the risks and accept them to be big rich stars.

Maybe they are just now finding out the risks. Jacob Bell now has a better understanding and walked away. It isn't unreasonable to believe players thought they had less risk because of helmet technology improvements. The increased protection can't keep up with the size and speed of players due to the amount of guys taking PEDs. Nobody talks about that being the problem, but it is really the case. Unless the NFL and college football adopt serious PED testing programs, the head injuries aren't going away. Real PED testing will result in smaller and slower players....basically, shrink players down to what a normal person can do without help.

Is it a slippery slope? Yes. The NFL needs to settle a class action case ASAP, set up a fund established by a judge and let an administrator hand out the money....right after they start a real PED testing program.

[akronzips71]

Maybe they are just now finding out the risks. Jacob Bell now has a better understanding and walked away. It isn't unreasonable to believe players thought they had less risk because of helmet technology improvements. The increased protection can't keep up with the size and speed of players due to the amount of guys taking PEDs. Nobody talks about that being the problem, but it is really the case. Unless the NFL and college football adopt serious PED testing programs, the head injuries aren't going away. Real PED testing will result in smaller and slower players....basically, shrink players down to what a normal person can do without help.

Is it a slippery slope? Yes. The NFL needs to settle a class action case ASAP, set up a fund established by a judge and let an administrator hand out the money....right after they start a real PED testing program.

If they win this lawsuit, it is the end of the NFL, and of college football. People will not pay to watch a bunch of guys playing flag football.

But my vote is to hell with them - not that they should not get better helmets and pull guys off the field if they get a head injury, or even take guys out of the league with repeated concussions. That is another matter.

But these guys took the money and they knew damn well the violent nature of pro football. Give me a break.

[Dave in Green]

I'm sure there were people back in 1905 saying that no one would watch football if it had a bunch of sissy rules enforced to stop players from being seriously injured and killed.

As for modern football safety, since the medical community did not understand the dangers of brain damage from football prior to conducting longterm scientific studies, how could the players be expected to have understood these unknown dangers prior to choosing to try to make a career of playing? Sure, they all understand the broken bones, wasted knees and even the remote possibility of paralysis. But no one really understood the concept of widespread longterm brain imjury until only recently.

This is a game changer.

[akronzips71]

I'm sure there were people back in 1905 saying that no one would watch football if it had a bunch of sissy rules enforced to stop players from being seriously injured and killed.

As for modern football safety, since the medical community did not understand the dangers of brain damage from football prior to conducting longterm scientific studies, how could the players be expected to have understood these unknown dangers prior to choosing to try to make a career of playing? Sure, they all understand the broken bones, wasted knees and even the remote possibility of paralysis. But no one really understood the concept of widespread longterm brain imjury until only recently.

This is a game changer.

You sound like one of the lawyers.

No sale.

[GP1]

If they win this lawsuit, it is the end of the NFL, and of college football. People will not pay to watch a bunch of guys playing flag football.

I'm not interested in watching flag football either. I'm also not interested in watching football turn into cockfighting.

Football is a physical sport. When it goes from being physical to violent, it becomes pornography/cockfighting. People who call it violent don't understand what violent really means and have a limited vocabulary. Pornography isn't just dirty movies, magazines, etc. Pornography is also a visual designed to bring out an emotional response in someone. Watching guys loaded up on PEDs take cheap shots on defenseless players doesn't make me happy. It doesn't take a tough guy to hit someone in an effort to harm them when they can't see it coming. It isn't good for society to have a sport promoting that activity.

The reason the NFL needs to settle the class action case is so they can establish a fund administered by someone else that will handle all of the cases the former players are already filing. There are currently over 2,000 cases filed. The NFL can't afford, both politically and literally, to take every one of them to trial. This issue needs to get out of the headlines asap for the NFL, and the settlement is the best way to do it. Companies do it all the time with issues such as asbestos and the NFL needs to do it as well.

[GP1]

You sound like one of the lawyers.

No sale.

Are you saying the NFL knew about the head injuries and the long term danger? If so, the NFL is in worse trouble than I think they are. If DiG is correct, the NFL is still in trouble. Either way, the NFL has a huge problem.

Personally, I believe the NFL knew the long term dangers of head injuries for a long time. I also believe they know there may be a connection between PEDs and head injuries and possible depression from players trying to get off of steroids. The NFL got fat off of abusing the bodies of their employees in a way far beyond the limits of acceptable risk for the sport. They are really going to have to cough up some money for that.

[K92]

When will some WR file the first personal injury lawsuit against a QB who threw him that high pass across the middle into zone coverage in full stride that resulted in a crushing blow from a headhunting DB? Shit's gettin' ridiculous.

[akronzips71]

Are you saying the NFL knew about the head injuries and the long term danger? If so, the NFL is in worse trouble than I think they are. If DiG is correct, the NFL is still in trouble. Either way, the NFL has a huge problem.

Personally, I believe the NFL knew the long term dangers of head injuries for a long time. I also believe they know there may be a connection between PEDs and head injuries and possible depression from players trying to get off of steroids. The NFL got fat off of abusing the bodies of their employees in a way far beyond the limits of acceptable risk for the sport. They are really going to have to cough up some money for that.

I just have a really hard time, as a retired Government employee, seeing someone with a Sports Agent and a Press Agent and a multi-million dollar "salary" as an employee. The players, who are unionized, are really more like the owners. Unlike other industries, if the players "quit" the owners can't just go out and hire new employees. It is not that simple. The players are really in control of the league, and they dictate almost everything. So in my opinion, they know and have always know exactly what they are doing.

Players play in high school to get cheerleaders and go to a good college for free. They play in college to get cheerleaders and a free education and a shot at the NFL. Players go to the NFL to get swimsuit models and actresses and make millions of dollars, much of that off the field in endorsements.

Even if you told them that they would become veggies at 35 and die at 40 most of them would never give that up. People do MMA and Ultimate Fighting for a hell of a lot less.

Now I do think the newer rules meant to protect the players are good. Hitting a defenseless player who is out of the play should be an ejection. Head shots should be an ejection. Too much unnecessary roughness should be a serious suspension and then a lifetime ban. Yes, they need to find ways to detect a concussion on the field, take the player out, and possibly ban the player from the league on medical advice. I can agree with all of that. The violence in the game should be incidental to the game, not the purpose of the game.

But all that being said, these guys all know exactly what they are doing and would not do it any other way.

[GP1]

When will some WR file the first personal injury lawsuit against a QB who threw him that high pass across the middle into zone coverage in full stride that resulted in a crushing blow from a headhunting DB? Shit's gettin' ridiculous.

This is a serioius issue. Don't turn it into high school debate club.

[GP1]

I just have a really hard time, as a retired Government employee, seeing someone with a Sports Agent and a Press Agent and a multi-million dollar "salary" as an employee. The players, who are unionized, are really more like the owners.

Players play in high school to get cheerleaders and go to a good college for free. They play in college to get cheerleaders and a free education and a shot at the NFL. Players go to the NFL to get swimsuit models and actresses and make millions of dollars, much of that off the field in endorsements.

Paragraph 1: Sounds like government employees.

Paragraph 2. At least the NFL players have three reasons for playing, not just two.

[K92]

This is a serioius issue. Don't turn it into high school debate club.

Mine is a serious question.

[xu9697]

Serious question=

Is anyone doing a study on CFL players for head injuries?

The league has been playing since 1958. Seems like a study of what is happening there and comparing it to the NFL would be quite interesting.

I keep coming back to a simple reality= in 1985, William the Fridge Perry was one of 4 guys in NFL over 300 LBS. Now, every OL in the NFL is basically over 300 LB to a man. And..look at the pads in the 1980's vs. today= smaller. Smaller pads, bigger men. And, yes, I realize that some of those injured were playing in the 70's and 80's.

[johnnyzip84]

Big 10 and Ivy League to jointly study concussions

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany and Ivy League executive director Robin Harris began discussing the collaboration in September.

The Big Ten established a league-wide concussion management plan in 2010, and the Ivy League developed several methods to curb football-related concussions in 2011 after a year-long review.

While both leagues have established basic concussion guidelines and have held events to discuss head injuries, a full-scale research endeavor involving 20 schools and thousands of athletes across a variety of sports is "unprecedented," Harris said.

"I go back to Teddy Roosevelt, and how he called the presidents (together in 1905-06) and how the Ivy League was involved and the Big Ten schools, too, to form the NCAA and look at the welfare of athletes," Harris said. "I think we're at a similar juncture."

[akronzips71]

Paragraph 1: Sounds like government employees.

Paragraph 2. At least the NFL players have three reasons for playing, not just two.

You are just jealous.

[johnnyzip84]

Simpson-Ganassi Helmet

[GP1]

Simpson-Ganassi Helmet

I'm glad to see this. I'm also not surprised someone associated with car racing developed this helmet.

Because of the personal feelings fans have towards drivers, they want them to drive for a long time without injury. The owners of nascar and their team owners understand the value of individual drivers.

The nfl owners run their league as early industrialists ran their businesses (I'm a Steelers fan and they are a perfect example of this). Players are as disposable as early steel workers were. One steel worker gets killed because of safety issues, replace him. Player blows out knee, get another. Player loses some brain cells because of head injury, get another. The only thing that matters is winning and the team, not the single player. Owners didn't really become worried about head injuries until it started to cost them money in the form of law suits. The NFL is set up so if you don't run your team in a short sighted manner, you are making a mistake. Players have to be protected from this mentality.

I don't believe rules alone can solve this problem. There has to be better equipment, better understanding of the rules and a real PED policy in the NFL if they are going to cut back on head injuries. If all they do is make a better helmet and think the problem is solved, players will go back to launching themselves at each other again.

[Dr Z]

Simpson-Ganassi Helmet

Will players wear it? Will they have a choice? Ridell has offered the Revolution helmet for years.

The Steelers wanted Ben to wear it, he wore it for ten minutes during camp and put it aside because he said it wasn't comfortable.

I think Aaron Rodgers uses it.

[Sergeant Zip]

A tragic tackle

[Sergeant Zip]

Former BG player, Cody Silk, sued the university, head football coach Dave Clawson and team trainers over head injuries he says he received during practice that could have been prevented and were not treated properly.

[GP1]

A tragic tackle

I saw this the other night. It brings up another issue that goes beyond equipment. That issue is whether or not the people coaching youth football are trained at it.... or good enough at it to teach young kids how to properly/safely play the game. I dont think they are. Most of them are trying to relive their high school days and stand around screaming at kids believing that is "good coaching". Its crap coaching. The best coach I ever had never screamed (although we all knew when he was mad) and today he is an assistant in the NFL.

In my opinion, a kid should not begin to play full contact football until seventh grade. Thats early enough. There is nothing a kid can learn in pee wee football that he will be able to apply in high school football. The muscle memory does not last that long in a child that young. Kids just want to play games and while they would like to play football, they can pass the time at that age playing another sport until they are old enough. Half of them at the pee wee age are more interested in picking dandelions than playing football anyhow.

[MDZip]

In my opinion, a kid should not begin to play full contact football until seventh grade. Thats early enough. There is nothing a kid can learn in pee wee football that he will be able to apply in high school football. The muscle memory does not last that long in a child that young. Kids just want to play games and while they would like to play football, they can pass the time at that age playing another sport until they are old enough. Half of them at the pee wee age are more interested in picking dandelions than playing football anyhow.

At that age we were playing flag football. Certainly gave you a good taste for the game to see whether you were interested in going to the full contact version. Seems like a good compromise.

[Ham]

I would advocate for eliminating the helmet cages. That would inhibit players who would use their head as a weapon. Although in the case of the youngster in the video, his technique wasn't all that bad if he had kept his head up. I think his bigger problem arrises from his age. I don't think a person that young has developed the neck strength to withstand that impact; so, one could say I would favor restricting contact until youngsters reach an apropriate? age.

[GP1]

I would advocate for eliminating the helmet cages. That would inhibit players who would use their head as a weapon.

I hear this argument a lot. Seems to me it doesnt take into consideration a cheap shot by an opposing player. The more protection we can offer players, the better off they are and the game will be.

Someone asked about the CFL and why players don't seem to have as many head injuries. I dont know the statistics, but it could be true becausee of the style of play, size of the field and rules. CFL uses a bigger field so it is more of a finesse game; sort of like international hockey uses a bigger rink and is less physical than the NHL. The one rule I love in the CFL is the D-Line must line up one yard off the ball...This makes for smaller and quicker players on both sides of the ball...The NFL just creates a wall of fat with their O-Lines and it has basically eliminated running in the NFL. The cfl is really fun to watch.