UofA's Rhodes Arena Study

[lance99]

Are you sure? My understanding was that Summa bought the Martin lot. BTW, I worked at Martin in 2004-2005 and the Haven was a huge issue at night

Sorry about that, I found it

[ZZZips]

Sorry about that, I found it

Haven of Rest does great work but is in an unfortunate location. The north side of University Park has rhe same issues with street drug use, panhandling and minor crimes. It's not the Haven's fault but the problem has spread from Grace Park to cover the entire area north of Market Street.

[Dave in Green]

..... My wildcard prediction? The arena could be situated amidst the upcoming retail/residential mecca in the area between Exchange and Wheeler.

Exactly where between Exchange and Wheeler is that retail/residential mecca supposed to go? I've just been looking at the whole area from an aerial view, and it's pretty built up. The only way you put up anything new is to tear things down.

An arena would eat up a large part of a square block, and then you'd need a big parking deck as well, which could take up another square block. You'd have to tear down several square blocks of existing structures to fit everything in that area. Then you'd need some kind of buffer zone between the residential part and the arena part, because having an arena in your backyard doesn't exactly make for a warm and cozy neighborhood.

Is there any place online where I can see a graphic of what's planned for that area?

[scottditzen]

Here ya go Dave. Check p. 7 this is a pretty miraculous plan:

http://www.upakron.com/uploads/akron-core-...ive-summary.pdf

Exactly where between Exchange and Wheeler is that retail/residential mecca supposed to go? I've just been looking at the whole area from an aerial view, and it's pretty built up. The only way you put up anything new is to tear things down.

An arena would eat up a large part of a square block, and then you'd need a big parking deck as well, which could take up another square block. You'd have to tear down several square blocks of existing structures to fit everything in that area. Then you'd need some kind of buffer zone between the residential part and the arena part, because having an arena in your backyard doesn't exactly make for a warm and cozy neighborhood.

Is there any place online where I can see a graphic of what's planned for that area?

[zippy5]

Here ya go Dave. Check p. 7 this is a pretty miraculous plan:

http://www.upakron.com/uploads/akron-core-...ive-summary.pdf

good lord that is awesome

[Dave in Green]

Thanks for the map. If you really mean page 7 (South of Exchange District), Wheeler Street ends at the west edge of the UA campus and doesn't run through the South of Exchange District. So you must mean between Exchange and some street other than Wheeler.

The problem I see with the South of Exchange District is that it's getting a little far from campus to encourage students to attend basketball games, especially when we're having a winter like last year rather than the current one.

I still believe if it ends up being a joint city/university arena as opposed to an on-campus UA arena, it really needs to be right on the western edge of the UA campus. The JAR is right on the eastern edge of the campus, and student turnout for basketball games is still disappointing. A longer walk to the arena is going to hurt student turnout even more.

[ksu sucks]

I have an honest question about student turnout at basketball games.

Does anyone find it weird that the student section at the rubber bowl was routinely larger than the student section at the JAR? Even in it's last season, when the football team was mediocre, the Rubber Bowl routinely attracted student sections several times larger than what we currently see at the JAR. This despite the fact that the Rubber bowl was miles from campus and the basketball team is #1 in the MAC.

Why do you think that is?

[zippy5]

I have an honest question about student turnout at basketball games.

Does anyone find it weird that the student section at the rubber bowl was routinely larger than the student section at the JAR? Even in it's last season, when the football team was mediocre, the Rubber Bowl routinely attracted student sections several times larger than what we currently see at the JAR. This despite the fact that the Rubber bowl was miles from campus and the basketball team is #1 in the MAC.

Why do you think that is?

The same reason that the smallest football crowd of the season is bigger than the largest bball crowd..

[ksu sucks]

The same reason that the smallest football crowd of the season is bigger than the largest bball crowd..

LOL...do you really think that was true this season?

[akzipper]

good lord that is awesome

The most impressive part is definitively the area south of Exchange. That's why I still believe the arena needs to be right next to Infocision, somewhere in that general area. Making a plaza similar to Gateway in Cleveland

[zippy5]

LOL...do you really think that was true this season?

It took 2 wins in 24 games to get to the point where we can even debate that. Football is king - with students and the general population

[ksu sucks]

It took 2 wins in 24 games to get to the point where we can even debate that. Football is king - with students and the general population

I know. I'm just messing with you.

But to get back to my original question, I'm willing to bet that if there were a more unified student section at the JAR, we would see something similar to what we had with the Rubber Bowl. Unfortunately, the JAR just isn't going to allow for that without massive modification.

I really wish they would give a section of the chair back seating to the students. Half of those people never show up anyway. I like Michigan's set up:

Much better than watching a bunch of old farts sit on their hands.

[Dave in Green]

The most impressive part is definitively the area south of Exchange. That's why I still believe the arena needs to be right next to Infocision, somewhere in that general area. Making a plaza similar to Gateway in Cleveland

That would be page 5 (University Square District) on the document @zippy5 posted the link to. That's the area that's actually between Exchange and Wheeler. If a new arena were to be built directly across Exchange from Infocision Stadium with a parking deck next to it, the parking deck could also serve Zips football, which could have a shortage of parking places if Coach Bowden gets them winning and people actually start showing up in numbers for the football games.

[taxpayer]

Unfortunately, I don't see any modifications for the remainder of the 2011-2012 season. I hope Coach D turns up the heat on the administration to get something done for the 2012-2013 season. There are several ways to accomplish what most on this board agree is a problem...student attendance and involvement to produce a true home court advantage. Put the media/announcers up on the track in a corner or at half court, donors up in the chair backs. Get two rows of students across from the team benches down on the floor in addition to both ends. I'd guess they could put 150 more students down at floor level in addition to the end of court seats currently in place. Unfortunately, I don't see any other possibilies for a near term solution and with this years and next years team, it's time for UA to step up and continue to support and elevate this program with significant renovations.

[ksu sucks]

Unfortunately, I don't see any modifications for the remainder of the 2011-2012 season.

No, of course not. But as you mentioned, it would be nice to see some changes in the upcoming season(s).

I'm sure most of the season ticket holders in the lower chairbacks would consider moving their seat if it results in a better atmosphere for the students and the players. The athletic department should consider simply sending a questionnaire to current and potential season ticket holders. Would they be willing to make a sacrifice to help enhance the atmosphere at the JAR? It's not like there isn't enough room for a scaled down version of Michigan's student section. Give a small section of the lower chairbacks to the students and get rid of the random seating behind the basket(unless needed?). I'm willing to bet that most of the fans would be willing to accommodate such a change.

Also, I purposely used the word "modification". If a short-term fix such as the one above isn't possible, there's always the possibility of structural changes in the JAR. Knock down the track and expand seating behind both the hoops, similar to this.

Whatever the case, I'm sure the university is checking into all options. I hope something happens soon. This program has so much momentum. I hope a new arena comes around in at least less than ten years!

BTW, if Dambrot is still around when it's built, we ought to consider naming the place after him.

[Dave in Green]

..... I'm sure most of the season ticket holders in the lower chairbacks would consider moving their seat if it results in a better atmosphere for the students and the players. .....

I'm guessing you're not an economics major.

[ksu sucks]

I'm guessing you're not an economics major.

In the long run, the University is going to have to make some tough decisions. We all remember the football stadium parking lot fiasco.

Short-term appeasement can only get you so far.

[Dave in Green]

@k s u sucks, my point was that the folks who pay for the lower level chairbacks pay a pretty stiff premium in exchange for sitting close to the court and having the best view in the house. I don't think "most" or even many of them would be willing to continue paying the same high premium price for less premium seats.

So if your plan is to clear a bunch of them out to make room for students, the plan should also include an offset to make up for the reduced income the basketball team would generate by virtue of fewer people willing to pay a premium price for less desirable seats.

[ksu sucks]

@k s u sucks, my point was that the folks who pay for the lower level chairbacks pay a pretty stiff premium in exchange for sitting close to the court and having the best view in the house. I don't think "most" or even many of them would be willing to continue paying the same high premium price for less premium seats.

So if your plan is to clear a bunch of them out to make room for students, the plan should also include an offset to make up for the reduced income the basketball team would generate by virtue of fewer people willing to pay a premium price for less desirable seats.

Dave, I understood your point.

You probably know more about the seating situation than I do. I've spent all of my time up in the bleacher seats, bending over to see the scoreboard from behind the rafters. So perhaps I'm too far away to get a feel for the mindset of those with the best seats in the house. How many of them are season ticket holders? I hope not many, because seating down there can be pretty sparse for those December blizzard matches against the little sisters of the poor.

At any rate, I wonder how many of those premium paying zips supporters would consider relocating to a different section of the lower chairback area if it meant giving a better student experience and a better game time atmosphere? We're not talking about giving up an entire side of the lower reserves and pushing everyone else to bleachers. Let's just give a few rows of seats to the students, as Taxpayer suggested. I'd be rather surprised to hear many zips supporters reject to such an idea.

This team is too good to force the students to sit in makeshift bleachers on opposite ends of the court. Next season will be huge(as is this season). This team deserves better.

And to reemphasize my earlier point about short term appeasement: If the university wants to continue seeing sub-3,000 attendance numbers for the next twenty years, then they should continue their current set-up. If they want long-term attendance increases, they're going to need to work on the game time experience for the students. Happy students make happy alumni.

I understand the restrictions that the JAR imposes, and if these suggestions are economically infeasible because of that, so be it. I just hope the U is working on a solution. This program, these fans, and Dambrot deserve better.

[Captain Kangaroo]

How many of them are season ticket holders? I hope not many, because seating down there can be pretty sparse for those December blizzard matches against the little sisters of the poor.

At any rate, I wonder how many of those premium paying zips supporters would consider relocating to a different section of the lower chairback area if it meant giving a better student experience and a better game time atmosphere? We're not talking about giving up an entire side of the lower reserves and pushing everyone else to bleachers. Let's just give a few rows of seats to the students, as Taxpayer suggested. I'd be rather surprised to hear many zips supporters reject to such an idea.

I've see the student section for those December games. Is two students considered a "section?"

The Zips students really haven't done anything to merit getting center court seats at the JAR. And giving the boot to people/companies paying $500/seat, on top of their ticket costs, is something even Wistercil would never consider.

The JAR is what it is. Mary Kay and Revlon combined don't have enough lipstick to slater on our 1980's era pig to make it presentable. Oh well...at least what transpires on the court itself is top-shelf quality.

[skip-zip]

I've see the student section for those December games. Is two students considered a "section?"

The Zips students really haven't done anything to merit getting center court seats at the JAR. And giving the boot to people/companies paying $500/seat, on top of their ticket costs, is something even Wistercil would never consider.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of the students getting more lower seating. I think it would improve the atmosphere. But, I completely agree that it's not meritted at this point. And it is indeed going to be difficult to change a long-standing philosophy that we reward the biggest contributors with the best seats, regardless of how frustrated some people might be with the idea that there are so many no-shows.

[ksu sucks]

I've see the student section for those December games. Is two students considered a "section?"

Do 90% of the season ticket holders go out of town for the month of December?

The Zips students really haven't done anything to merit getting center court seats at the JAR. And giving the boot to people/companies paying $500/seat, on top of their ticket costs, is something even Wistercil would never consider.

No disagreement there. Student attendance has been weak, especially if the number of students in the floor seats is your gauge for overall student attendance. But I wonder how many students are spread out amongst the general admission crowd? I wonder how many of the students who sit in the GA seating are typically in the student section at the Info(that is, until Ianello sucked the life out of the FB program)?

The Athletic department should crunch the numbers for this. Something like a ratio of the number of students on the floor vs the number of students in attendance. If there is a disparity there, what's causing it? Hmm...

The JAR is what it is. Mary Kay and Revlon combined don't have enough lipstick to slater on our 1980's era pig to make it presentable. Oh well...at least what transpires on the court itself is top-shelf quality.

Amen to that.

I'm just looking for a short-term fix. If there would be this much resistance to the idea, forget it. It just seems like the University is missing out on a prime chance to convert some of it's OSU-crazed students. But what do I know, anyway...

[Dave in Green]

@k s u sucks, never give up on presenting new ideas, no matter how negative the responses might seem. It's important for all aspects of any situation to be brought forward and considered, and those presenting one side should not be discouraged by those presenting the other. It's always possible that something could be done. But unless someone gets the ball rolling as you did, the possibilities tend not to be explored.

I have a reserved seat in the 7th row of the upper section. Except for the railing and the people walking on the "track" during the game, the view isn't that bad. I've also sat in the 11th row of the upper section, and the view isn't terrible from up there. So I'd guess only the last few rows are not so good from the sides.

I haven't sat in the upper section at the ends, so I can't say what the view is like from there. But it seems to me that the really enthusiastic student basketball fans might want to come to the JAR a little early to grab seats in the lower rows of the upper end sections. If the most enthusiastic students end up together, maybe that will encourage more noise. Maybe you could use that as leverage to convince UA to experiment with a small student section in the lower section.

I don't think UA is going to throw away potential revenue from premium seats hoping that students will show up and fill those seats and make enough noise to make it worthwhile. I think it's up to the students to prove what they'd do with such a section by putting on a "performance" in the seats they already have access to. In other words, get together and make something happen as a proof of concept.

[ksu sucks]

@k s u sucks, never give up on presenting new ideas, no matter how negative the responses might seem. It's important for all aspects of any situation to be brought forward and considered, and those presenting one side should not be discouraged by those presenting the other. It's always possible that something could be done. But unless someone gets the ball rolling as you did, the possibilities tend not to be explored.

Thanks for the encouragement, DIG. I'm not so much giving up on my idea, as much as I am on my ability to convince a few of you. As you mentioned, it really doesn't matter if I convince you. I know the Athletic department reads this stuff. If one of Wistricill's minions takes my idea and tries to take credit for it(by all means, please do) then the response I receive on this forum is irrelevant.

[akzipper]

I think this discussion about the student seating shows that the JAR just will not work anymore if you want a unified section. A new arena with a bowl configuration will make it easy to give the students 1/3 of the lower bowl, leaving the rest open for premium ticket holders. Then an upper deck can be used for general admission. Add club seats and suites, and you'll have the perfect arena. The small seating areas at the JAR are terrible, and I think the reason you don't see a lot of students down there is because they hate it. When I was a student at UA, I tried it out freshman year. After one game I decided I would never sit down there again.