Penn State - What should NCAA do?

[GP1]

Article

I touched on fear in a previous post on this thread. The article is about fear. Sandusky's victims were incredibly fearful of him and that's the way he wanted it. Sandusky is truely a monster. Rape is not a sexual act. It is a violent act designed to destroy another human through fear and violence. Tomorrow, the NCAA is going to hand out some penalties for psu that will only lead to suffering for people who had nothing to do with this situation. The ncaa is going to lash out because they are in fear that people will say they aren't doing enough. Because they are making decisions based out of fear, the penalties will only serve to make the job of those at psu who really want to do something meaningful about this situation (unlike a meaningless gesture of taking a statue down) more difficult. Further suffering will be created.

The last paragraph of the article reads as follows (throw in "nor the ncaa" as it relates to fear and psu):

"But often, the most important defense of civilization takes place only after tragedy has struck, and innocents have perished. And the real heroes are neither police nor politicians nor an imaginary batsuited billionaire, but the people — whether in Columbine or Lower Manhattan or now Aurora, Colo. — who carry one another through the valley of the shadow of death, and by their conduct ensure that the Jokers and James Holmeses of the world win only temporary victories."

If anyone thinks the ncaa president is the cowboy on the white horse coming to town to save the day in this situation, you are just plain wrong. If you beleive any positive, meaningful outcome will happen as a result of the ncaa's penalties, you are just plain wrong. The ncaa is a band of fools and everyone with half of a brain knows it. The real heroes will be those with no institutional power to hand down penalties of any type. Their only power will be moral authority. You will never see them and you will never know them, but they will be out there doing good work for victims and potential victims of this crime.

[akronzips71]

There is an announcement coming, and the NCAA says the penalty is "unprecedented".

I hope TB is camping out in PA. The players have no fault in this, maybe we can grab a few good ones.

[LZIp]

Article

I touched on fear in a previous post on this thread. The article is about fear. Sandusky's victims were incredibly fearful of him and that's the way he wanted it. Sandusky is truely a monster. Rape is not a sexual act. It is a violent act designed to destroy another human through fear and violence. Tomorrow, the NCAA is going to hand out some penalties for psu that will only lead to suffering for people who had nothing to do with this situation. The ncaa is going to lash out because they are in fear that people will say they aren't doing enough. Because they are making decisions based out of fear, the penalties will only serve to make the job of those at psu who really want to do something meaningful about this situation (unlike a meaningless gesture of taking a statue down) more difficult. Further suffering will be created.

The last paragraph of the article reads as follows (throw in "nor the ncaa" as it relates to fear and psu):

"But often, the most important defense of civilization takes place only after tragedy has struck, and innocents have perished. And the real heroes are neither police nor politicians nor an imaginary batsuited billionaire, but the people — whether in Columbine or Lower Manhattan or now Aurora, Colo. — who carry one another through the valley of the shadow of death, and by their conduct ensure that the Jokers and James Holmeses of the world win only temporary victories."

If anyone thinks the ncaa president is the cowboy on the white horse coming to town to save the day in this situation, you are just plain wrong. If you beleive any positive, meaningful outcome will happen as a result of the ncaa's penalties, you are just plain wrong. The ncaa is a band of fools and everyone with half of a brain knows it. The real heroes will be those with no institutional power to hand down penalties of any type. Their only power will be moral authority. You will never see them and you will never know them, but they will be out there doing good work for victims and potential victims of this crime.

Okay, I get that you dislike the NCAA. What is your suggestion to be done in this situation? The legal process will work itself out. It is clear that this situation has shown that PSU has/had a serious lack of institutional control. It is sickening that this was covered up by EVERYBODY involved, clear to the top. I am not a fan of the NCAA either, but something needs to be done. Everybody associated with a program has to deal with the consequences. Not everybody at SMU was given free cars, not everybody at USC was given free houses, and not everybody at OSU was given tattoos in exchange for memorabilia. There is a great chance that any player who wants to leave PSU may, without having to sit out. That isnt punishing everybody. Their new coach? He knew of the possibility of this happening when he accepted the job.

[GP1]

What is your suggestion to be done in this situation? The legal process will work itself out.

Not everybody at SMU was given free cars, not everybody at USC was given free houses, and not everybody at OSU was given tattoos in exchange for memorabilia. There is a great chance that any player who wants to leave PSU may, without having to sit out. That isnt punishing everybody. Their new coach? He knew of the possibility of this happening when he accepted the job.

I'll answer the question second and respond to the second paragraph first.

Anyone who has seen the 30 for 30 about smu knows EVERYONE was involved. It was truely an institution out of control in a very entertaining way. A sitting governor of Texas was involved in the smu matter, the president of the university, the AD, the coaches, the assistant coaches, the trainers, the players, the players parents and grandparents, the boosters were also involved. Not only were they involved, they kept doing it after being caught once and went on probation that involved no TV or bowls for a year. Now that's lack of institutional control.

tosu and usc got what the deserved under the outdated rules of the ncaa.

OK, so they punish psu by punishing everyone associated with the program. Under your logic, allow the players to leave and punish the coach who just got there and THEN punish future players. Punish the season ticket holders? Punish the guy who owns a hotel that only profits because PSU plays seven home games a year and he can break the bank those days? None of these people have done anything wrong. The logic makes no sense to me so ncaa punishments make no sense to me...most ncaa rules don't make sense to me. I think the people who run it are idiots.

So, what would I do? If I had to punish someone or something for doing something, I'd like to think those involved would be there to take part in the punishment. The problem at PSU is there is nobody left to punish who was there when the Sandusky problems happened. At smu, all of the players taking money the first time they went on probation had to play under that probation. When the problems continued, those playing for smu when the death penalty was handed down were still playing at smu at the time so there was a direct line between the punished and the punishers. Again, what would I do?.....Nothing. There is nobody to punish at this point.

What would I do if I was psu? First, start fundraising immediately to research the most effective ways to prevent child abuse and support those victims of child abuse. This can be accomplished through the criminal justice department and psychology department to name a couple. Use the fundraising to hire the best researchers in these areas to understand and recommend how to prevent and treat child abuse. Use part of that money to train future law enforcement officers in methods of indentifying and bringing to justice child abusers. Second, research and fund methods of preventing child abuse throughout Pennsylvania through public awareness campaigns. Third, hold annual seminars in State College and branches throughout Pennsylvania, free to the public, to increase public awareness about child abuse and methods of reporting that abuse. Fourth, organize alumni and current students and their organizations to lobby the PA state legislature to better fund law enforcement officers in the area of child abuse enforcement and identification. Fifth, request participation from current and past athlete-students in points 1-4...I'm sure not many would turn this opportunity down....can't use the current players if they aren't playing....that's how you deal with something negative, by introducing the positive and taking postive action. Nothing positive comes out of the ncaa forcing anyone to do anything and only punishing.

[Dave in Green]

PSU voluntarily belongs to the NCAA, which has a set of rules for member institutions established with the consent of member institutions. Wherever PSU violated the letter and intent of NCAA rules with which they agreed to abide, they deserve to be appropriately punished.

The NCAA announcement will lay out a full description of the rules violated, and then we can all form our own opinions on how appropriately the NCAA punishment matches the rules violated. I personally do not believe it would be appropriate for the NCAA to attempt to duplicate what the judicial system is currently in the process of adjudicating, but that they should deal exclusively with those NCAA rules by which member institutions agreed to abide in the strict legal sense of each rule's definition.

The cumulative negative effect from the actions of the judicial system, the NCAA and the court of public opinion will devastate PSU for years and even decades. It will be far worse than any "death penalty" the NCAA could enforce on its own.

[akronzips71]

I'll answer the question second and respond to the second paragraph first.

Anyone who has seen the 30 for 30 about smu knows EVERYONE was involved. It was truely an institution out of control in a very entertaining way. A sitting governor of Texas was involved in the smu matter, the president of the university, the AD, the coaches, the assistant coaches, the trainers, the players, the players parents and grandparents, the boosters were also involved. Not only were they involved, they kept doing it after being caught once and went on probation that involved no TV or bowls for a year. Now that's lack of institutional control.

tosu and usc got what the deserved under the outdated rules of the ncaa.

OK, so they punish psu by punishing everyone associated with the program. Under your logic, allow the players to leave and punish the coach who just got there and THEN punish future players. Punish the season ticket holders? Punish the guy who owns a hotel that only profits because PSU plays seven home games a year and he can break the bank those days? None of these people have done anything wrong. The logic makes no sense to me so ncaa punishments make no sense to me...most ncaa rules don't make sense to me. I think the people who run it are idiots.

So, what would I do? If I had to punish someone or something for doing something, I'd like to think those involved would be there to take part in the punishment. The problem at PSU is there is nobody left to punish who was there when the Sandusky problems happened. At smu, all of the players taking money the first time they went on probation had to play under that probation. When the problems continued, those playing for smu when the death penalty was handed down were still playing at smu at the time so there was a direct line between the punished and the punishers. Again, what would I do?.....Nothing. There is nobody to punish at this point.

What would I do if I was psu? First, start fundraising immediately to research the most effective ways to prevent child abuse and support those victims of child abuse. This can be accomplished through the criminal justice department and psychology department to name a couple. Use the fundraising to hire the best researchers in these areas to understand and recommend how to prevent and treat child abuse. Use part of that money to train future law enforcement officers in methods of indentifying and bringing to justice child abusers. Second, research and fund methods of preventing child abuse throughout Pennsylvania through public awareness campaigns. Third, hold annual seminars in State College and branches throughout Pennsylvania, free to the public, to increase public awareness about child abuse and methods of reporting that abuse. Fourth, organize alumni and current students and their organizations to lobby the PA state legislature to better fund law enforcement officers in the area of child abuse enforcement and identification. Fifth, request participation from current and past athlete-students in points 1-4...I'm sure not many would turn this opportunity down....can't use the current players if they aren't playing....that's how you deal with something negative, by introducing the positive and taking postive action. Nothing positive comes out of the ncaa forcing anyone to do anything and only punishing.

The problem is that the institution engaged in wrongdoing. If someone brings a civil rights or discrimination case against a corporation, they can fire all the wrongdoers, that does not get them off the hook at all. The eventual judgement is the same.

This is similar. The institution, in the person of it's leaders and coaches, knew about the criminality and not only allowed it to continue, but covered it up. The logic to be applied is that the institution BENEFITED from the coverup in the form of fan attendance, revenue, and recruiting. Once the scandal came to light, the popularity and prestige of the school would be diminished, so they covered it up for financial reasons, as well as school "loyalty".

There will be severe sanctions. The players will be allowed to transfer without sitting out - they are victims, not perpetrators. The coach will be released from his contract without penalty if he chooses to move on.

As far as local business, that is NOT the NCAA's concern. Not at all. Although one could reason that they also benefited from the cover up, as their revenues would have been reduced years ago if the scandal broke then.

There will be an announcement tomorrow. I expect a death penalty of one to five years to be put into effect, and it may cover all sports.

[LZIp]

I'll answer the question second and respond to the second paragraph first.

Anyone who has seen the 30 for 30 about smu knows EVERYONE was involved. It was truely an institution out of control in a very entertaining way. A sitting governor of Texas was involved in the smu matter, the president of the university, the AD, the coaches, the assistant coaches, the trainers, the players, the players parents and grandparents, the boosters were also involved. Not only were they involved, they kept doing it after being caught once and went on probation that involved no TV or bowls for a year. Now that's lack of institutional control.

tosu and usc got what the deserved under the outdated rules of the ncaa.

OK, so they punish psu by punishing everyone associated with the program. Under your logic, allow the players to leave and punish the coach who just got there and THEN punish future players. Punish the season ticket holders? Punish the guy who owns a hotel that only profits because PSU plays seven home games a year and he can break the bank those days? None of these people have done anything wrong. The logic makes no sense to me so ncaa punishments make no sense to me...most ncaa rules don't make sense to me. I think the people who run it are idiots.

So, what would I do? If I had to punish someone or something for doing something, I'd like to think those involved would be there to take part in the punishment. The problem at PSU is there is nobody left to punish who was there when the Sandusky problems happened. At smu, all of the players taking money the first time they went on probation had to play under that probation. When the problems continued, those playing for smu when the death penalty was handed down were still playing at smu at the time so there was a direct line between the punished and the punishers. Again, what would I do?.....Nothing. There is nobody to punish at this point.

What would I do if I was psu? First, start fundraising immediately to research the most effective ways to prevent child abuse and support those victims of child abuse. This can be accomplished through the criminal justice department and psychology department to name a couple. Use the fundraising to hire the best researchers in these areas to understand and recommend how to prevent and treat child abuse. Use part of that money to train future law enforcement officers in methods of indentifying and bringing to justice child abusers. Second, research and fund methods of preventing child abuse throughout Pennsylvania through public awareness campaigns. Third, hold annual seminars in State College and branches throughout Pennsylvania, free to the public, to increase public awareness about child abuse and methods of reporting that abuse. Fourth, organize alumni and current students and their organizations to lobby the PA state legislature to better fund law enforcement officers in the area of child abuse enforcement and identification. Fifth, request participation from current and past athlete-students in points 1-4...I'm sure not many would turn this opportunity down....can't use the current players if they aren't playing....that's how you deal with something negative, by introducing the positive and taking postive action. Nothing positive comes out of the ncaa forcing anyone to do anything and only punishing.

I will agree that you have some good suggestions. However, I do not understand your logic that everybody else got what they deserved, and PSU should be let off. I am too young to comment on SMU outside of what I saw in 30 for 30, however was Tressel at OSU when they received their bowl ban? How about Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush? They werent at USC anymore and the program was still hammered.

[Zipmeister]

The problem is that the institution engaged in wrongdoing. If someone brings a civil rights or discrimination case against a corporation, they can fire all the wrongdoers, that does not get them off the hook at all. The eventual judgement is the same.

This is similar. The institution, in the person of it's leaders and coaches, knew about the criminality and not only allowed it to continue, but covered it up. The logic to be applied is that the institution BENEFITED from the coverup in the form of fan attendance, revenue, and recruiting. Once the scandal came to light, the popularity and prestige of the school would be diminished, so they covered it up for financial reasons, as well as school "loyalty".

There will be severe sanctions. The players will be allowed to transfer without sitting out - they are victims, not perpetrators. The coach will be released from his contract without penalty if he chooses to move on.

As far as local business, that is NOT the NCAA's concern. Not at all. Although one could reason that they also benefited from the cover up, as their revenues would have been reduced years ago if the scandal broke then.

There will be an announcement tomorrow. I expect a death penalty of one to five years to be put into effect, and it may cover all sports.

R U a gamblin man?

[akronzips71]

R U a gamblin man?

No

But the announcement about the announcement indicated that it will be beyond anything that has been done before.

[Wally B]

I will agree that you have some good suggestions. However, I do not understand your logic that everybody else got what they deserved, and PSU should be let off. I am too young to comment on SMU outside of what I saw in 30 for 30, however was Tressel at OSU when they received their bowl ban? How about Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush? They werent at USC anymore and the program was still hammered.

To me it's eqiivalent to saying BP shouldn't pay any damages eminating from the Gulf oil spill had they fired their CEO. Leaving the institution off the hook for the actions of those in a position of authority does nothing to eliminate the culture that enabled these horrors in the first place. To say PSU has truly changed negates the FACT that students held a vigil for jopa's statue and chanted WE ARE PENN STATE as it was removed. They are still on thier high horse, and only unprescedented penalties will ever be able to reach them. REMEMBER no matter how much they howl tomorrow, or for the next 10 years, the only victims in this tragedy were the abused children. PERIOD. Oh how the mighty have fallen....

[Buckzip]

I'm hearing a $30-60M fine just to start things off.

Bowl ban

Scholly reductions.

TV ban

Pretty sad for the students and players that had nothing to do with this.

[GP1]

The problem is that the institution engaged in wrongdoing. The institution, in the person of it's leaders and coaches, knew about the criminality and not only allowed it to continue, but covered it up. The logic to be applied is that the institution BENEFITED from the coverup in the form of fan attendance, revenue, and recruiting.

We don't know what would have happened if this issue came out years ago so they ncaa shouldn't punish based upon what might have happened. Do we really want the the ncaa playing a guessing game...they aren't even good at rulinig on issues when they know facts.

I agree they engaged in wrondoing and the criminal system has that under control right now.

[Zipmeister]

Congratulations to the Zips who as of 9:10 this morning are undefeated against PSU since 1998.

Also Congrats to TB's dad, Bobby, on becoming the winniningest DI football coach of all time at exactly the same instant.

[Big Zip]

So Penn State is on the calendar in 2014. Sounds like the playing field just got a little more level.

[LZIp]

Hey Terry Bowden:

Lets snag some of these PSU free agents.

[Buckzip]

Hey Terry Bowden:

Lets snag some of these PSU free agents.

No kidding.

[Zipgrad01]

Maybe that is part of the reason why he talked to Moore about being 3rd string. He knew this day would be coming, why not clear some space?

[GP1]

Maybe that is part of the reason why he talked to Moore about being 3rd string. He knew this day would be coming, why not clear some space?

I think TB is a pretty smart guy, but not this smart.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Maybe that is part of the reason why he talked to Moore about being 3rd string. He knew this day would be coming, why not clear some space?

We were already a few scholarships over our allotment. At best we're even now, but I'm pretty sure TB is banking on some further roster attrition as camp progresses.

[LZIp]

We were already a few scholarships over our allotment. At best we're even now, but I'm pretty sure TB is banking on some further roster attrition as camp progresses.

The NCAA is allowing schools to add these players without it counting towards the scholarship limit for this season, it would just be subtracted from what scholarships are available for the 2013 recruiting class.

[GP1]

Congratulations to the Zips who as of 9:10 this morning are undefeated against PSU since 1998.

I know I've been hard on the guy over the years, but I'd like to give credit where credit is due. This credit is especially deserved when a player reaches his greatest achievement at a university....... Congratulations to Charlie Frye for his first BCS victory.

[LZIp]

I know I've been hard on the guy over the years, but I'd like to give credit where credit is due. This credit is especially deserved when a player reaches his greatest achievement at a university....... Congratulations to Charlie Frye for his first BCS victory.

False, the vacated wins do not count as a win for the losers. The games "never happened".

[GP1]

False, the vacated wins do not count as a win for the losers. The games "never happened".

Darn. I was feeling really magnanimous when I was typing that.

[Spin]

False, the vacated wins do not count as a win for the losers. The games "never happened".

Well that's not fair. That would have made us slightly less likely to drop below .500 overall this season.

[GP1]

Deadspin

These guys get it right again.

This punishment is a big bunch of nothing, just like the clowns in Indianapolis.

$60 million for a fund not at psu. Nonsense..If anyone should have that fund sent up at their institution, it should be psu. I said so yesterday in a post I made.

Bowl ban...psu was on the brink of becoming terrible in the first place. They didn't have too many bowls in their future.

Vacated wins....

Reduction of scholarships? Who suffers? Future players. There are a finite number of potential scholarships each year in the universe of college football. They just made it so a number of players won't be able to go to college. Nice work proving Yoda right ncaa.

5 year probation to work with an ncaa monitor? Who is this monitor going to be and what experience does that person have in monitoring potential child abuse? In fact, monitor what?

This is laughable. I said the ncaa should do nothing and they basically did. The they did do will yield little results.