The MAC gets seven bowl bids

[akzipper]

I think the indoor facility, the new stadium and the hiring of Terry Bowden, Chuck Amato and Terrell Buckley are all pretty good indications that the university is serious about FBS football.

Terry needs more than a year to fix the disaster that was Rob Ianello. The pieces were in place for us to be an NIU, but the horrendous decision to hire Rob Ianello the year after building the stadium set this program back to D2 level. Things will get better. I, much like the majority of the fans here know that we can compete in the MAC and competeting in the MAC means far more to me than D-1AA meaningless football.

I know...I know...the MAC is meaningless you say. Tell that to NIU playing in the Orange Bowl. That is far greater than any D1-AA national championship game.

I agree. We have the pieces in place to be the best in the MAC, but the product on the field has been terrible. Not many schools in FBS have the facilites we do in Akron, but I can't say that I'm "sold" on the coaching staff yet. That doesn't mean I'm giving up, but I can't say that watching the team last year proved anything. In all reality I'd rather be at the bottom of FBS than the top of FCS. At least in FBS Akron has a chance to do something. Even if it's very unlikely, it is possible. What's the best thing a FCS team can do? have one upset over an FBS team that really means nothing. Looking back I couldn't even tell you who won the FCS championship last year and I really don't care. We think Joe Akron is bored when MAC schools come to town, what happens if YSU, Western Carolina, and James Madison are playing at Info every week.

[K92]

what happens if YSU, Western Carolina, and James Madison are playing at Info every week.

Half of the people who regularly attend now would stop coming.

[Spin]

Half of the people who regularly attend now would stop coming.

The Morgan State game outdrew three of the MAC games. As did Massillon High School.

I get it, status means everything to a lot of people. I just know first hand how this area will support a winner. No matter what level it is. From everything I've seen winning>status.

And still no response about several teams that are no legally in the BCS because of their attendance.

But nothing is going to change anyhow, just trying to have a discussion, which is why we're here.

[johnnyzip84]

And still no response about several teams that are no legally in the BCS because of their attendance.

I have no idea what this means, but I'll respond to your earlier comments.

While it doesn’t necessarily mean that moving down a division is NOT the better option for UA, it remains an odd fact that in the 34 years since I-AA/FCS was created not one school has made the decision to make that move. How can that be irrelevant to the discussion? Maybe all of these administrations have it wrong.

The reason why I brought up the MVC is it remains the most logical 1-AA/FCS home for the Zips (midwest flavor, natural rival in YSU). You bring up schools like Dayton and Duquesne. You do realize that there is a big difference between traditional non-scholly I-AA teams and regular 1-AA teams. The likes of Dayton, Duquesne, Georgetown, etc. are only classified as FCS/1-AA because of the so-called “Dayton rule” that the NCAA passed a number of years ago. These teams were kicked out of DIVISION 3 football (and into 1-AA), because it was felt that there prowess in D-1 hoops gave them a potential recruiting advantage in D-3 football. The facilities and football budget of a Duquesne versus a North Dakota State is not even close. If you’re going to make a serious 1-AA/FCS proposal for the Zips, at least make it a realistic one.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

QQ. Just like I told STZ, go root for YSU. I dont root for quitters. YSU doesnt give a shit how they do in 1-AA. They would jump to join the MAC the first chance they got. Our University has a goal overall. Goals that do not totally have to deal with athletics, but athletics play an important part of them. WHEN, yes I said WHEN we get there, please dont jump on the bandwagon. Dont need "fans" like you.

Again, can't you even replicate the Phil Savage line when you rudely tell other posters to piss off?

Oh, and by the way, L(oser)Zip, piss off.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Opinions are opinions, but facts are facts. 25 years. In 25 years of D-1/FBS football, the Zips have been a failure. In fact, I would argue (opinion) that Faust had the best overall run in D-1 of the "modern" era UA coaches, and that was right out of the gate. Again, my opinion, that if the Zips were going to have found the formula for success in FBS, it would have happened by now. At any level, abject failure and 2,000-6,000 actual butts in the seats is a recipe for disaster. Whether or not other programs have made what may be an informed, enlightened and ultimately success-supporting move to a lower level of football, isn't important to me. I see no upside, from a programmatic point of view, in continuing on this path. Maybe no other program has made the move down, but there are PLENTY of other universities that feature one or two sports played on the highest level with others falling somewhere below. The Big East is falling apart for all to see because of that. Who, exactly, says that Akron must continue down the bloody path in football? Why, exactly, wouldn't it make sense for football to seek its natural level, wherever that may be, while UA continues to press the other programs at a higher level? And what is the gigantic chip on some shoulders here that drives such anger and resentment when somebody asks why it's logical for Akron to continue on the rocky road, 25 years in? Wouldn't you rather see a winner, at whatever level?

[LZIp]

Opinions are opinions, but facts are facts. 25 years. In 25 years of D-1/FBS football, the Zips have been a failure. In fact, I would argue (opinion) that Faust had the best overall run in D-1 of the "modern" era UA coaches, and that was right out of the gate. Again, my opinion, that if the Zips were going to have found the formula for success in FBS, it would have happened by now. At any level, abject failure and 2,000-6,000 actual butts in the seats is a recipe for disaster. Whether or not other programs have made what may be an informed, enlightened and ultimately success-supporting move to a lower level of football, isn't important to me. I see no upside, from a programmatic point of view, in continuing on this path. Maybe no other program has made the move down, but there are PLENTY of other universities that feature one or two sports played on the highest level with others falling somewhere below. The Big East is falling apart for all to see because of that. Who, exactly, says that Akron must continue down the bloody path in football? Why, exactly, wouldn't it make sense for football to seek its natural level, wherever that may be, while UA continues to press the other programs at a higher level? And what is the gigantic chip on some shoulders here that drives such anger and resentment when somebody asks why it's logical for Akron to continue on the rocky road, 25 years in? Wouldn't you rather see a winner, at whatever level?

Can't State football has been a loser its whole existence. Yet, this past season, they were one fumbled hand-off away from a BCS bowl. Yea..there is no hope for a program like Akron who is better traditionally, has better facilities, and better coaches

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Can't State football has been a loser its whole existence. Yet, this past season, they were one fumbled hand-off away from a BCS bowl. Yea..there is no hope for a program like Akron who is better traditionally, has better facilities, and better coaches

And the coach? GONE faster than you can say "back to normal in the MAC," not to mention that Can't State had to fund-raise like crazy to pay Hazell's salary and was likely forced to spend even more for their new coach, who will also leave if he's lucky enough to have a winning season or two. Spin said it best, in that there are 15-30 truly prestigious programs in the country. Akron arrived at the table way late, and 25 years in, "it" hasn't happened yet and I see no reason to believe that it will. Tell me that there is some way for UA to field a fun, winning team that builds a legacy of success at the FCS level, while the other winning programs continue at the highest level, I'm all over it. For those who argue that you cannot drop to FCS because we wouldn't win there either, do you not see the lack of logic in that line of thinking? If UA cannot win at FCS, they can never, ever win at FBS level. If they can't win at either level, then logic dictates that the program should drop to D-II and be a damned national powerhouse at that level. Akronites don't hate the Aeros because they aren't the Indians, and they have never loved UA at the D-1/FBS level. There is no logical reason to assume that fewer people would show for D-II teams than already show for Compass Directional Michigan, or Ball State. College football nerds know that Ball State is better than Indiana State, but no way are you going to convince me that Ball State draws lots more fans to the Dialer than Indiana State.

Last thought for the night, and don't knee jerk your response: you can choose a program that fails, for a quarter century at FBS, draws about 6,000 actual humans to home games and is a national laughing stock, or you could have a Mount Union, probably draw 10,000+, win a lot of games, be in the national playoffs every year, and at the lower level, be a hard-core winning program. If your choice is UA, in that scenario, I truly don't understand why.

[LZIp]

Last thought for the night, and don't knee jerk your response: you can choose a program that fails, for a quarter century at FBS, draws about 6,000 actual humans to home games and is a national laughing stock, or you could have a Mount Union, probably draw 10,000+, win a lot of games, be in the national playoffs every year, and at the lower level, be a hard-core winning program. If your choice is UA, in that scenario, I truly don't understand why.

My response is that how does Mount Union draw 10000+ when their single game attendance record is only 8972?

http://athletics.mountunion.edu/sports/fba...ds/Team_Records

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

My response is that how does Mount Union draw 10000+ when their single game attendance record is only 8972?

http://athletics.mountunion.edu/sports/fba...ds/Team_Records

A WINNING Akron team, at any level, would draw 10K+. I don't know what they draw officially these last few years, but there are about 2-6K actual bodies in the seats at any given game. I'd take 10K+ in attendance for a winning program at a lower level.

[Dr Z]

A WINNING Akron team, at any level, would draw 10K+.

How do you come to that conclusion?

[zipsfan33]

Personally, if I was the only one in attendance I would still root for my Zips! I love this team no matter what. They aren't the best, but I don't care. I am a fan, I get mad when they play lousy, but I have faith that the coaches will coach them up and help them improve for the next game. I am a proud 2 time alum from Akron and I will support them through thick and thin.

[Dave in Green]

I found an NCAA document showing 2009 college football attendance numbers for top schools in all divisions. As consistently good as Mount Union has been, they had only the 13th best attendance average of all D-III teams at 3,561 per game (32,050 for 9 games). Number one D-III team for average attendance was St. John's (MN) 8,208. Now you could speculate that a much larger school (UA) with many more alumni in a larger metropolitan area (Akron) might be expected to draw larger crowds than that presuming that NEO fans could be counted on to be among the most enthusiastic in the country. But 10k would be pretty optimistic for a perennial national power in a lower division considering only three D-II teams in the country averaged more than 10k attendance per game in 2009. Now, if UA could be transplanted to Texas and morphed into a perennial high school football power, rabid Texas HS football fans could easily average 10k at those games.

2009 National College Football Attendance For All NCAA Men's Varsity Teams

[lance99]

And the coach? GONE faster than you can say "back to normal in the MAC," not to mention that Can't State had to fund-raise like crazy to pay Hazell's salary and was likely forced to spend even more for their new coach, who will also leave if he's lucky enough to have a winning season or two. Spin said it best, in that there are 15-30 truly prestigious programs in the country. Akron arrived at the table way late, and 25 years in, "it" hasn't happened yet and I see no reason to believe that it will. Tell me that there is some way for UA to field a fun, winning team that builds a legacy of success at the FCS level, while the other winning programs continue at the highest level, I'm all over it. For those who argue that you cannot drop to FCS because we wouldn't win there either, do you not see the lack of logic in that line of thinking? If UA cannot win at FCS, they can never, ever win at FBS level. If they can't win at either level, then logic dictates that the program should drop to D-II and be a damned national powerhouse at that level. Akronites don't hate the Aeros because they aren't the Indians, and they have never loved UA at the D-1/FBS level. There is no logical reason to assume that fewer people would show for D-II teams than already show for Compass Directional Michigan, or Ball State. College football nerds know that Ball State is better than Indiana State, but no way are you going to convince me that Ball State draws lots more fans to the Dialer than Indiana State.

Last thought for the night, and don't knee jerk your response: you can choose a program that fails, for a quarter century at FBS, draws about 6,000 actual humans to home games and is a national laughing stock, or you could have a Mount Union, probably draw 10,000+, win a lot of games, be in the national playoffs every year, and at the lower level, be a hard-core winning program. If your choice is UA, in that scenario, I truly don't understand why.

Hold it,

Like it was said eariler, you do not drop 60 million for a new stadium just to drop that far. The logic you are using is way off. I have ALWAYS loves the Zips no matter what. Go down to that level for what? Just to prove that we failed. If so, I am out on that program. It sounds like you want to "win yesterday by going to that level." I will be the first person to admit that they made mistakes through the years. That has been discussed at nasuim on this site. None of us here know what is going to happen within the next couple of years.

Going to that level says one thing: We(no matter who said it back then) told you so. I want them to suceed like everyone else. Prove everybody wrong, make a winner here(yes it have been done).

Finally, a national laughing stock? Stop the madness! We all know that there have been way, way worst football teams than the Zips the last 25 years (See Can't, EMU and others).

I refuse to think that if the Zips drop down, we will satify the needs for a winner. You know what that is: Defeatist talk.

[LZIp]

Hold it,

Like it was said eariler, you do not drop 60 million for a new stadium just to drop that far. The logic you are using is way off. I have ALWAYS loves the Zips no matter what. Go down to that level for what? Just to prove that we failed. If so, I am out on that program. It sounds like you want to "win yesterday by going to that level." I will be the first person to admit that they made mistakes through the years. That has been discussed at nasuim on this site. None of us here know what is going to happen within the next couple of years.

Going to that level says one thing: We(no matter who said it back then) told you so. I want them to suceed like everyone else. Prove everybody wrong, make a winner here(yes it have been done).

Finally, a national laughing stock? Stop the madness! We all know that there have been way, way worst football teams than the Zips the last 25 years (See Can't, EMU and others).

I refuse to think that if the Zips drop down, we will satify the needs for a winner. You know what that is: Defeatist talk.

spot on, I have basically said the exact same thing to him a few times. But it just goes over his head. Really think he is a troll

[akzipper]

Hold it,

Like it was said eariler, you do not drop 60 million for a new stadium just to drop that far. The logic you are using is way off. I have ALWAYS loves the Zips no matter what. Go down to that level for what? Just to prove that we failed. If so, I am out on that program. It sounds like you want to "win yesterday by going to that level." I will be the first person to admit that they made mistakes through the years. That has been discussed at nasuim on this site. None of us here know what is going to happen within the next couple of years.

Going to that level says one thing: We(no matter who said it back then) told you so. I want them to suceed like everyone else. Prove everybody wrong, make a winner here(yes it have been done).

Finally, a national laughing stock? Stop the madness! We all know that there have been way, way worst football teams than the Zips the last 25 years (See Can't, EMU and others).

I refuse to think that if the Zips drop down, we will satify the needs for a winner. You know what that is: Defeatist talk.

Exactly. I have been loyal to the Zips ever since I enrolled there. Watched them build beautiful facilities and have very bad seasons. I haven't given up yet, but if we drop down to FCS I will no longer be a Zips football fan. It's just that simple. What is the purpose of rooting for a FCS team? even an undefeated season with a championship means nothing. I would rather average 1 win a season in FBS, because at least we would have a chance someday...

People complain because I'm too negative, but I've never once suggested the Zips move down to a pointless division of college football. If you want to watch pointless football, go watch Mount Union or YSU.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Exactly. I have been loyal to the Zips ever since I enrolled there. Watched them build beautiful facilities and have very bad seasons. I haven't given up yet, but if we drop down to FCS I will no longer be a Zips football fan. It's just that simple. What is the purpose of rooting for a FCS team? even an undefeated season with a championship means nothing. I would rather average 1 win a season in FBS, because at least we would have a chance someday...

People complain because I'm too negative, but I've never once suggested the Zips move down to a pointless division of college football. If you want to watch pointless football, go watch Mount Union or YSU.

That's nuts. We all know that the actual, true attendance numbers are not reflected in official attendance figures. Especially in the Craptacular MAC, where most of the teams wouldn't even be FBS if anyone actually cared about an attendance figure of 15,000 actual human beings showing up at games. I have been to games (mostly horrible and depressing losses at the Info) where there were NO MORE than 6,000 fans at the start, and about 1,000 by the end of the game. You know, the ones (most of the games at the Info) where by the middle of the fourth quarter you can hear individual fans cheering, and identify which ones are which on the other side of the field cheering, by their individual voices.

You'd rather cheer one of the historic losing programs in the entire country, with a handful of thousand others, knowing that in the very best years you'll be lucky to eek out 7 wins. You guys are nuts. This is not normal, nor is it healthy. It's pathological, the absolute insistence that this program is JUST around the corner, the certitude that dropping to a lower level is the worst thing ever. You guys are absolutely nuts. You insist that those who might want to see the program become a winner by trying something different are losers, while insisting that UA remain on their current trajectory as one of the absolutely most moribund and decrepit progrums in the entire country. That means, by phucking definition, that you are insisting on being losers by cheering on a losing, broken-down mule of a program. I have to conclude that some, possibly many, of the posters here are just hopelessly attached to losing; that the pathology, some bizarre chip on your collective shoulders, has blinded you to the notion that it's very possible, even likely, that in ANOTHER 25 years, you will still be cheering on a losing program. There is no data that you can point to that would indicate otherwise, no real reason for hope, just blind insistence that Akron keep on sucking, you keep on cheering, and the endless wonder why nobody comes to the games.

I no longer wonder why nobody comes to the games, and I no longer wonder why all of the midwest frontrunners cheer OSBoo. OSBoo doesn't tend to make people sad. Sometimes it make them feel triumphant, and who doesn't want a little of that? UA football is a sadness generator. If you go to UA games, year after year, and the team makes you much more angry, frustrated and/or sad than entertained, and yet you keep on coming back for more, you need a shrink. How can you not see and embrace that truth? Your favorite college football team is not supposed to make you want to kill the dog.

You are the broken, beaten wives of college football.

[LZIp]

That's nuts. We all know that the actual, true attendance numbers are not reflected in official attendance figures. Especially in the Craptacular MAC, where most of the teams wouldn't even be FBS if anyone actually cared about an attendance figure of 15,000 actual human beings showing up at games. I have been to games (mostly horrible and depressing losses at the Info) where there were NO MORE than 6,000 fans at the start, and about 1,000 by the end of the game. You know, the ones (most of the games at the Info) where by the middle of the fourth quarter you can hear individual fans cheering, and identify which ones are which on the other side of the field cheering, by their individual voices.

You'd rather cheer one of the historic losing programs in the entire country, with a handful of thousand others, knowing that in the very best years you'll be lucky to eek out 7 wins. You guys are nuts. This is not normal, nor is it healthy. It's pathological, the absolute insistence that this program is JUST around the corner, the certitude that dropping to a lower level is the worst thing ever. You guys are absolutely nuts. You insist that those who might want to see the program become a winner by trying something different are losers, while insisting that UA remain on their current trajectory as one of the absolutely most moribund and decrepit progrums in the entire country. That means, by phucking definition, that you are insisting on being losers by cheering on a losing, broken-down mule of a program. I have to conclude that some, possibly many, of the posters here are just hopelessly attached to losing; that the pathology, some bizarre chip on your collective shoulders, has blinded you to the notion that it's very possible, even likely, that in ANOTHER 25 years, you will still be cheering on a losing program. There is no data that you can point to that would indicate otherwise, no real reason for hope, just blind insistence that Akron keep on sucking, you keep on cheering, and the endless wonder why nobody comes to the games.

I no longer wonder why nobody comes to the games, and I no longer wonder why all of the midwest frontrunners cheer OSBoo. OSBoo doesn't tend to make people sad. Sometimes it make them feel triumphant, and who doesn't want a little of that? UA football is a sadness generator. If you go to UA games, year after year, and the team makes you much more angry, frustrated and/or sad than entertained, and yet you keep on coming back for more, you need a shrink. How can you not see and embrace that truth? Your favorite college football team is not supposed to make you want to kill the dog.

You are the broken, beaten wives of college football.

I'm offended that you call yourself a Zips fan.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

I'm offended that you call yourself a Zips fan.

I'm offended that you're offended. No actually I'm not. I don't care that you're offended. Your posts contain no logic, no actual argument, just righteous indignation. It's a forum where, you know, people talk about things. Anyone can mindlessly cheer. What the hell else do you have to offer?

[LZIp]

I'm offended that you're offended. No actually I'm not. I don't care that you're offended. Your posts contain no logic, no actual argument, just righteous indignation. It's a forum where, you know, people talk about things. Anyone can mindlessly cheer. What the hell else do you have to offer?

Ive offered by opinion on this topic many times. No use beating a dead horse, like you are. If you think your idea actually makes sense (it doesnt) why dont you contact Proenza, Tommy boy, etc. I would love to hear what they would have to say. Probably laugh in your face.

[ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net]

Ive offered by opinion on this topic many times. No use beating a dead horse, like you are. If you think your idea actually makes sense (it doesnt) why dont you contact Proenza, Tommy boy, etc. I would love to hear what they would have to say. Probably laugh in your face.

Hmmm. Tempting, although like you, I'm not a personal acquaintance of Terry, Tom nor Louis, so I doubt that I'll garner an audience with any of them any time soon. I do, however, post on ZN, just like anyone else. As far as imagery goes, when it comes to beating the dead horse, I guess you're the idiot who is beating the guy beating the dead horse.

Offer actual opinions, arguments, logic, anything other than bashing posters like me, or piss off. I have no respect for those who piss and moan about people who post in forums. You are a mindless pom pom shaker.

Lastly, I'm on the West Coast. I can stay up for hours and hours and still get the last word in. You'll be putting on your jammies long before I'm even on my second beer!

[zippy5]

This is fun

[K92]

Some legitimate questions for you:

If the Zips braintrust decided to drop to FCS, it would be a nationwide story. Do you think Akron would be lauded or lampooned by talk radio, TV and print media? Would it help or hurt recruiting?

Do you think a drop-down would increase or decrease donations to the Z-Fund?

What FCS conference should the Zips apply to? Where should Akron park their other sports?

Why do you think the Zips would have greater success in FCS?

[Dave in Green]

..... I have no respect for those who piss and moan about people who post in forums. .....

Now wait a minute. Isn't that the primary reason why these forums exist in the first place?

[GP1]

1) How many teams in NCAA history have gone from FBS/1-A down to FCS/1-AA?

Excellent question. We were one of the first schools to head down the road. Apparently, it takes around 25years in the "building process" to realize it is all a scam for ADs to pad their resumes.

There isn't going to be a "drop" to 1-aa, but we will be left behind and be in a division between where we are now and fcs.