Dambrot vs Waters (CSU Warmup)

[Dr Z]

Full Article Here

If you look at their basketball backgrounds, there would be no clue Waters would have 300 career victories. Or that Dambrot would own 297. Or that at age 61, Waters would have just signed a seven-year contract to keep coaching at Cleveland State. Or that at age 54, Dambrot would have a 10-year deal to remain coaching at Akron. "It's pretty amazing -- for both of us," Dambrot said. "I was a baseball player in college. I had a problem and was out of college coaching (for 11 years) in the middle of my career. Gary came from little Ferris State. "It's not like we had big-name coaches in our corner who gave us jobs. We had to work our way up." Waters and Dambrot were both in a reflective mood as their teams prepared to play Sunday at 2 p.m. at Akron's Rhodes Arena.

"I know that some people aren't happy that we're 5-4 right now," Dambrot said. "But we usually do start slow. And the fact is, what counts in the MAC is how you finish." CSU is 7-4, but this is Waters' youngest team. The only senior is Tim Kamczyc. CSU's best player is sophomore Anton Grady, who is expected to miss the rest of the season because of knee surgery.

[LZIp]

Remember..THINK BIGGER! The MAC is still all the matters.

[Captain Kangaroo]

"Fans don't like to hear this, but I think they've gotten spoiled at both schools," Dambrot said. "Now, they expect Gary and I to make the NCAA every year -- and maybe win a game in the tournament -- for it to be considered a success."

Gary's done it. KD needs to do it.

I'm not saying it is easy, and I've heard the word "tortured" used to describe being a Zips' fan more than I've heard "spoiled," but the NCAA tourney is Joe Akron's measuring stick. That, and noteworthy OOC wins.

[LZIp]

"Fans don't like to hear this, but I think they've gotten spoiled at both schools," Dambrot said. "Now, they expect Gary and I to make the NCAA every year -- and maybe win a game in the tournament -- for it to be considered a success."

Gary's done it. KD needs to do it.

I'm not saying it is easy, and I've heard the word "tortured" used to describe being a Zips' fan more than I've heard "spoiled," but the NCAA tourney is Joe Akron's measuring stick. That, and noteworthy OOC wins.

Which..considering how weak the MAC is, it should be.

[UAZipster0305]

I'm not Joe Akron, and I don't expect consistent huge OOC wins or annual NCAA Tournament runs. At a school like Akron coming from the MAC, it's not going to happen overnight and these are not the next steps in advancing the program. I do however expect a few notable OOC wins every couple of seasons and the occasional NCAA Tournament run in our best seasons (as this year should be, talent-wise). What really kills me about this program is that we are yet to have a handful of big OOC wins or ANY NCAA Tournament runs over KD's tenure in spite of having the top MAC talent while watching other schools achieve these goals. Even most post-season appearances are one-and-done after an uninspiring performance against very beatable teams.

Every year it's the same thing...slow start in the OOC, we play well throughout the MAC schedule, play well but lose in the Bracket Buster, run to the MACC game, and play uninspired or intimidated in the post-season. And KD's words about all that matters is the MAC sadly reinforces this pattern. This is not at all what I have in mind when "Thinking Bigger."

[skip-zip]

the NCAA tourney is Joe Akron's measuring stick. That, and noteworthy OOC wins.

Amen.

Sunday is our chance to make up for losing in our house 2 years ago. It's also Zeke's chance to erase the memory of getting dunked on by a guard 2 years ago.

[Big Zip]

I hate to say it but Dambrodt's attitude of "it's the MAC it doesn't matter what we do the rest of the year" is why we start slow. The kids know the coach doesn't give a shit so they don't work as hard as they should to win those games. Don't get me wrong -- it isn't a conscious effort but their lack of urgency is directly tied to Dambrodt's attitude.

[Zip_ME87]

I hate to say it but Dambrodt's attitude of "it's the MAC it doesn't matter what we do the rest of the year" is why we start slow. The kids know the coach doesn't give a shit so they don't work as hard as they should to win those games. Don't get me wrong -- it isn't a conscious effort but their lack of urgency is directly tied to Dambrodt's attitude.

I agree. How can he expect his players to be "fired up" if he's not. A strong schedule with quality OOC wins and no or few losses could lead to an at-large bid even for a MAC team.

EDIT: This quote bothers me the most, "Fans don't like to hear this, but I think they've gotten spoiled at both schools," Dambrot said. "Now, they expect Gary and I to make the NCAA every year -- and maybe win a game in the tournament -- for it to be considered a success." Isn't getting to the NCAA Tournament the top goal? Yes, there can be other goals along the way, but THE GOAL should be going deep into the NCAA Tournament, even winning the National Championship. Given a coach with vision and the right attitude, there is no reason Akron can't compete (Butler and VCU have done it).

[wadszip]

I've been critical of Dambrot in the past, but have always maintained support for him being The University of Akron basketball coach. I truly believe that he the a guy who can get players to come here that will allow this team to reach greater heights. But in order to do so, he really needs to stop with the "fans are spoiled card."

Our fans are hardly "spoiled." I think the reasonable fans realize the good he has done, but expect a gradual climb (at this point, UA has been in stagnation as a good mid-major and nothing more). There is nothing wrong with expecting more out of this program. And that is not a situation unique to Akron. He could've taken the Duquesne job and found out really quick that expectations aren't really different between the two programs, just his leash would've been much shorter. He can get away from saying "spoiled" and all that matters is "the MAC" and get away with it here because he has as much job security as anybody.

But just because he has that security, doesn't mean he should settle for that type of attitude. He needs to change his approach in that regard, which has always been my biggest beef with KD. And I say that understanding that he has challenges against him that make it tough, but instead of trying to fight through them, he seems to fall back on "we'll just beat who we are supposed to beat and it's a success" mentality.

He needs to figure out what he's not doing that has this team starting slow every year, and not winning NCAA tournament games. I don't have the answer, and I'm not making $300,000-plus a year to figure it out. But schools with the same resources of Akron have proven that it's not an impossible feat.

And to take it a step further, the fan support is there, relative to how this team has played so far. 2,600 on a Tuesday against a god-awful Pine Bluff team is not that bad (a top 25, 12-1 Notre Dame team played a slightly less bad IPFW team a night earlier and only had 6,500). 2,600 (which has been the low attendance this year) is a solid base to work with. But this product simply has not been one that "Joe Akron" is going to want to see. It's on KD (and him being what the second or third highest paid employee at Akron) to make this a product those fans want to see.

This is a short snap-shot, but "Joe Akron" is out there. I was at the Dick's in Chapel Hill yesterday and went over to the college section, which is 4/5 Ohio State stuff. However, there was nobody looking at the Ohio State apparel, but there was myself, a little kid with his mom, two college-aged females and a college-aged male all sorting through the Akron gear (considering it was 5-6 racks worth of stuff, we were shoulder-to-shoulder) Maybe that was an aberration, but something I definitely noticed.

I also noticed there wasn't any Can't State gear (even after the epic football season they just had). This was my first time going to Chapel Hill in over a year, but it still kind of surprised me considering its proximity to Can't State (at least in comparison to Fairlawn/Montrose, where I usually go to shop). Even in the mall, the Akron vs. Can't gear was at least 80 percent in Akron's favor. Of course, the OSU vs. Akron gear was 80 percent in OSU's favor, though (and the stores in the mall had an overall more college selection).

Even with that, the retailers are going to who is going to bring them money. And just from that, it appears there is enough demand for stores to carry Akron gear locally (for example, Dick's only had OSU and Akron ... no ND, no Michigan, no Can't). Even the stores, like Champs, which carry a broader array of selections, still had Akron gear.

Joe Akron is out there, "he" just needs to be lured in ... that means winning OOC big games and NCAA tournament games .. not being called "spoiled".

[UAZip0510]

I hate to say it but Dambrodt's attitude of "it's the MAC it doesn't matter what we do the rest of the year" is why we start slow. The kids know the coach doesn't give a shit so they don't work as hard as they should to win those games. Don't get me wrong -- it isn't a conscious effort but their lack of urgency is directly tied to Dambrodt's attitude.

You honestly think Dambrot, who paces the sideline in an exhibition game against Walsh or Tiffin like it's the MAC Title game, doesn't give a shit? Really?

He's doing damage control. This team not only thought they'd win in Puerto Rico, they expected to. The season, unfortunately, has unfolded differently than the "Think Bigger" expectation. Dambrot is simply being honest with the current state of the season - the rest of it is just preparation for the MAC (and hopefully NCAA) tournament.

Dambrot "doesn't give a shit"...I've heard it all now.

[LZIp]

You honestly think Dambrot, who paces the sideline in an exhibition game against Walsh or Tiffin like it's the MAC Title game, doesn't give a shit? Really?

He's doing damage control. This team not only thought they'd win in Puerto Rico, they expected to. The season, unfortunately, has unfolded differently than the "Think Bigger" expectation. Dambrot is simply being honest with the current state of the season - the rest of it is just preparation for the MAC (and hopefully NCAA) tournament.

Dambrot "doesn't give a shit"...I've heard it all now.

Im sure he "gives a shit", but he makes those comments to attempt to save face for under achieving. I seem to recall him saying something very similar in the off season.

[Dr Z]

Akron is a 12 point favorite.

Pertaing to the article, KD needs to learn to use the media to help sell tickets. You might say "that's not his job," and you might be right, but TB takes every opportunity to do so. If your not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. The article rubbed me the wrong way. I thought I might be reading into it, until other posters confirmed my thoughts.

[dboze]

It's also Zeke's chance to erase the memory of getting dunked on by a guard 2 years ago.

If you remember the play, Coles was 5 steps ahead of Zeke on a break and he tried to run him down and was a step late. I don't really see that as 'getting dunked on'. How can an NBA guard allow a 7-footer to run him down in the open court? That's the memory....

[The Hip Zip]

Seems like whe weakest bunch that Waters has had up there. Grady is a hell of a player and makes them dangerous but he's out for quite some time after the meniscus tear. I think that the Zips are about to tee off on somebody and what better day than today?? Zips by 18-20

[skip-zip]

If you remember the play, Coles was 5 steps ahead of Zeke on a break and he tried to run him down and was a step late. I don't really see that as 'getting dunked on'. How can an NBA guard allow a 7-footer to run him down in the open court? That's the memory....

"5 steps ahead" would actually be a very bad memory. Go watch it again.

[Dave in Green]

When that UA-CSU game was played at the JAR in November, 2010, Zeke was still a pretty raw sophomore in the 4th game of his second college season, while Cole was an NBA-ready senior star. Cole was selected 28th in the 2011 NBA draft, worked his way into the Miami Heat's rotation as a rookie, and earned an NBA championship ring in his first pro season. I hope that Zeke has many chances in the future to meet Cole and demonstrate to him that he's learned a little more about blocking in the meantime.