A New Arena

[zippy5]

This is a message board, I'm not concerned with convincing any investors to bring a team here. Just speculating on if one could make it. And from what I've seen in the area, I think the answer is yes.

[zippyman23]

This is a message board, I'm not concerned with convincing any investors to bring a team here. Just speculating on if one could make it. And from what I've seen in the area, I think the answer is yes.

The primary investor is the University of Akron, particularly the men's basketball program as they would be the primary reason for such a facility. Anyone posting on this message board should be able to look at it from that perspective, especially a CPA. Whether or not a team could make it in the area is not the discussion here. Whether UA should invest additional money in a facility to host such events is what is being discussed. IMO, there are a lot better and more direct ways for the university to invest its money.

[zippy5]

I can't imagine a scenario in which a rent paying tenant isn't covering the extra cost of a "multi purpose" arena. Otherwise, there would be no one leasing to minor league teams. So then, in my opinion, the discussion turns to if a minor league team can sustain itself here.

[zippy5]

Anyway, I don't want to be confused with Jake, beating a dead horse. I don't really care if it has hockey, arena football or whatever.. I just want to see the Zips out of the JAR.

[zippyman23]

They didn't have such a facility in place until they moved out of their 2500 seat gym and built the 10,000 seat (for basketball) multi-purpose facility.

A bunch of the money came from naming rights and the state of Ohio. Well worth it just as it would be for Akron.

Is the state of Ohio giving us funding to build such a facility? That's pretty important variable. I have my doubts.

[zippyman23]

I can't imagine a scenario in which a rent paying tenant isn't covering the extra cost of a "multi purpose" arena. Otherwise, there would be no one leasing to minor league teams. So then, in my opinion, the discussion turns to if a minor league team can sustain itself here.

The additional operational costs, but a tenant would not cover the additional capital expenditures needed to construct an arena capable of hosting such events. That doesn't happen.

[zippy5]

The additional operational costs, but a tenant would not cover the additional capital expenditures needed to construct an arena capable of hosting such events. That doesn't happen.

You can't make blanket statements like that. You could build a bigger basketball only arena for the price of a smaller multi purpose arena. At which point the rent is gravy, but our basketball experience is dampened with a smaller place.

[Spin]

The primary investor is the University of Akron, particularly the men's basketball program as they would be the primary reason for such a facility. Anyone posting on this message board should be able to look at it from that perspective, especially a CPA. Whether or not a team could make it in the area is not the discussion here. Whether UA should invest additional money in a facility to host such events is what is being discussed. IMO, there are a lot better and more direct ways for the university to invest its money.

The basketball program isn't paying for a new arena. A big chunk of the money comes from contributions. Then there are the loans.

And minor league teams are only one angle to look at. Under my concept, the students would be able to use the building for fitness/pickup/intramural games, skates, etc. So, the university would be paying for part of it out of fees like the health and fitness building and other faciltities. Being a Wayne College student that transferred (kicking and screaming) to main campus for the final 3 years of my degree, that is a substantial addition to your costs.

I don't know the additional cost of a bigger floor, dasher boards, turf, and possibly ice making equipment. But I do know cities much smaller than Akron have them, they're sustainable, they have big events, and they have sustainable minor league sports teams. These events and games pay for arenas in Wheeling and Youngstown and Erie and Toledo and Dayton and other cities in smaller metropolitan areas than metro Akron.

I'd kick in on a more functional facility.

[tbozeglav]

The primary investor is the University of Akron, particularly the men's basketball program as they would be the primary reason for such a facility. Anyone posting on this message board should be able to look at it from that perspective, especially a CPA. Whether or not a team could make it in the area is not the discussion here. Whether UA should invest additional money in a facility to host such events is what is being discussed. IMO, there are a lot better and more direct ways for the university to invest its money.

Spin, see above. This is exactly why your opinion is flawed. The university is going into this project with the premise that the UA Basketball team(s) are the primary tenants of the building and as such do not have the direct necessity for other tenants. Volleyball, etc can and should still be hosted in the JAR (should they keep it as I expect they will).

Now, Spin... you keep referencing student use. Have you forgotten about our REC Center which has, if memory serves, 5 basketball courts, two of which are multipurpose and all are used throughout the year? Have you forgotten about all the other fitness equipment and facilities in that building? Is the REC center suddenly insufficient for reasons that nobody has ever mentioned before? There's simply no reason students NEED to be using a basketball arena on any consistent basis. The only possible use from a purely student perspective would be intramural basketball tournaments, but that falls under the "Basketball" category of needs and is very infrequent.

What others have brought up, and is a very significant and important detail to consider, is if the facility were to be designed to accommodate other sports/events, would there be sufficient, tangible, and quantifiable demand for such accommodations? The University would be monumentally foolish to design a facility with specific accommodations to a different sport or some kind of event (concerts/monster truck/AMA Supercross) without having some connection to an organizing body with interest in hosting such events there, or even investment money so the proper modifications can be made.

Demand for convention space? The Knight center seems to do that well enough and probably offers equal if not more convention space than a basketball arena could offer. Ice Hockey? Akron's is a club team (not backed by the Athletics Dept), so the university has no responsibility for them... and I would seriously doubt there was any desire for a rink outside of that club team. Concerts? They don't need much, if any, additional space than what the basketball arena would offer (shows like TSO would *NOT* be coming to akron anyways - they go to Cleveland).

The point is really this... we can sit here and discuss this matter till its beaten to a drinkable pulp. So long as KD has any say in what happens with the new facility, we can guarantee that it'll be built to accommodate his team first. All other events/teams will have to work around his requirements, plain and simple.

[GP1]

Wheeling and Youngstown and Erie and Toledo and Dayton and other cities in smaller metropolitan areas than metro Akron.

Exactly the reason not to do it. When someone goes to a game at UofA, do you want them to think, "This is just like Wheeling, Erie, Toledo, Dayton and Youngstown."? Or, do you want them to have a completely unique basketball experience watching the Zips win? I want the unique fan experience. You want a fan to leave a game and say, "I can't get this anywhere else."

[pat]

Spin, see above. This is exactly why your opinion is flawed. The university is going into this project with the premise that the UA Basketball team(s) are the primary tenants of the building and as such do not have the direct necessity for other tenants. Volleyball, etc can and should still be hosted in the JAR (should they keep it as I expect they will).

Now, Spin... you keep referencing student use. Have you forgotten about our REC Center which has, if memory serves, 5 basketball courts, two of which are multipurpose and all are used throughout the year? Have you forgotten about all the other fitness equipment and facilities in that building? Is the REC center suddenly insufficient for reasons that nobody has ever mentioned before? There's simply no reason students NEED to be using a basketball arena on any consistent basis. The only possible use from a purely student perspective would be intramural basketball tournaments, but that falls under the "Basketball" category of needs and is very infrequent.

What others have brought up, and is a very significant and important detail to consider, is if the facility were to be designed to accommodate other sports/events, would there be sufficient, tangible, and quantifiable demand for such accommodations? The University would be monumentally foolish to design a facility with specific accommodations to a different sport or some kind of event (concerts/monster truck/AMA Supercross) without having some connection to an organizing body with interest in hosting such events there, or even investment money so the proper modifications can be made.

Demand for convention space? The Knight center seems to do that well enough and probably offers equal if not more convention space than a basketball arena could offer. Ice Hockey? Akron's is a club team (not backed by the Athletics Dept), so the university has no responsibility for them... and I would seriously doubt there was any desire for a rink outside of that club team. Concerts? They don't need much, if any, additional space than what the basketball arena would offer (shows like TSO would *NOT* be coming to akron anyways - they go to Cleveland).

The point is really this... we can sit here and discuss this matter till its beaten to a drinkable pulp. So long as KD has any say in what happens with the new facility, we can guarantee that it'll be built to accommodate his team first. All other events/teams will have to work around his requirements, plain and simple.

TSO played at UA about three years ago. There is a definite market for concerts in Akron. That fact has already been established.

[Blue & Gold]

TSO played at UA about three years ago. There is a definite market for concerts in Akron. That fact has already been established.

Correct. They play at EJ Thomas.

[skip-zip]

Exactly the reason not to do it. When someone goes to a game at UofA, do you want them to think, "This is just like Wheeling, Erie, Toledo, Dayton and Youngstown."? Or, do you want them to have a completely unique basketball experience watching the Zips win? I want the unique fan experience. You want a fan to leave a game and say, "I can't get this anywhere else."

When this does finally all start to come together, I think it will be good to have a "shoot for the stars" mentality. We did a pretty good job of doing things with the INFO that will benefit us well into the future. I feel the same way about the Fieldhouse. Unfortunately, that same vision didn't happen when the JAR was built 30 years ago. It was significantly better than what we had, but so much was missing. Please, lets not do that again. If there is no "wow factor", then don't build it.

[Zipmeister]

Is the state of Ohio giving us funding to build such a facility? That's pretty important variable. I have my doubts.

If the university administrators are any good the state will be kicking in a considerable share, plus a couple of million from private sources for naming rights.

[pat]

Correct. They play at EJ Thomas.

BTW, I hated that show and the audience members made Thomas Hall look like a trailer park threw up in it.

[GP1]

When this does finally all start to come together, I think it will be good to have a "shoot for the stars" mentality. We did a pretty good job of doing things with the INFO that will benefit us well into the future. I feel the same way about the Fieldhouse. Unfortunately, that same vision didn't happen when the JAR was built 30 years ago. It was significantly better than what we had, but so much was missing. Please, lets not do that again. If there is no "wow factor", then don't build it.

I want a wow factor as well. My vision of this arena and the wow factor would be like looking at the Mona Lisa. Beauty in simplicity. Make the fan experience of watching a sporting event as perfect as possible without any vulgar or garish displays. My thoughts always take me back to TD Arena where College of Charleston plays. It is the perfect arena for them. Perfect size. Perfect view of the game. Fits the campus perfectly. Fits the city perfectly. Nothing fancy, just a great place to watch a college basketball game.

[pat]

I want a wow factor as well. My vision of this arena and the wow factor would be like looking at the Mona Lisa. Beauty in simplicity. Make the fan experience of watching a sporting event as perfect as possible without any vulgar or garish displays. My thoughts always take me back to TD Arena where College of Charleston plays. It is the perfect arena for them. Perfect size. Perfect view of the game. Fits the campus perfectly. Fits the city perfectly. Nothing fancy, just a great place to watch a college basketball game.

Yes, but too small for us (5,100 seats). We should model our arena after SLU's 10,600 seat arena except we should have no bleachers. SLU has a number of them.

[zippy5]

Bleachers in the student section.. Makes it easier to cram more in.

[akzipper]

Bleachers in the student section.. Makes it easier to cram more in.

No reason to fill a section with seats, when students should be standing anyway. Bleachers are fine.

[skip-zip]

I want a wow factor as well. My vision of this arena and the wow factor would be like looking at the Mona Lisa. Beauty in simplicity. Make the fan experience of watching a sporting event as perfect as possible without any vulgar or garish displays. My thoughts always take me back to TD Arena where College of Charleston plays. It is the perfect arena for them. Perfect size. Perfect view of the game. Fits the campus perfectly. Fits the city perfectly. Nothing fancy, just a great place to watch a college basketball game.

I think that when you build something BRAND NEW, it SHOULD be the best out there. If it's not, it is going to look inferior too fast (See JAR Arena).

When the field house was built, some people said it was the best training facility in Ohio, bar none.

When the INFO was built, I heard some of the same comments.

If a new basketball arena is assembled from scratch, it should aim to fit the same criteria.

If you want to be a big-time athletic program, then you better look like a big-time athletic program.

[GP1]

If you want to be a big-time athletic program, then you better look like a big-time athletic program.

Actually, appearance isn't as important as performance.

[skip-zip]

Actually, appearance isn't as important as performance.

Without getting into specifics, lets just concede that it is a combination of BOTH.

[Dave in Green]

@zippy5, you had me confused there when you asked for some real numbers without providing any real numbers of your own. I get it now that it's just a message board discussion. You make a good point that UA is not likely to try to build an all-purpose arena on its own without the city as a partner. If it's just UA building the arena on its own property and not downtown in partnership with the city, it's likely to be a basketball-optimized arena. So I'd say the odds of an all-purpose arena are pretty small, though I don't have the exact numbers.

[zippy5]

@zippy5, you had me confused there when you asked for some real numbers without providing any real numbers of your own. I get it now that it's just a message board discussion. You make a good point that UA is not likely to try to build an all-purpose arena on its own without the city as a partner. If it's just UA building the arena on its own property and not downtown in partnership with the city, it's likely to be a basketball-optimized arena. So I'd say the odds of an all-purpose arena are pretty small, though I don't have the exact numbers.

It wasn't so much the numbers as much as posters just dismissing the idea because "it won't work." When you have a working example here in the Aeros, I'd say the onus of the argument would be to prove why it wouldn't work. Like I said, I couldn't care much less if it's basketball specific or not, I just found it funny reading that it's a bad investment without much reason why.

[Dave in Green]

@zippy5, I get your point. We all bring slightly different viewpoints to these discussions, and there's often little hard data presented to support anyone's beliefs. Ultimately it's up to those who are actually spending the money, or asking others to invest their money, to produce a quality analysis of the market with projected ROI. It would be nice if we could all have access to whatever feasibility studies UA and/or the city may have conducted to see what specific numbers they project for various iterations of a new arena.