Luis Proenza to retire

[Dave in Green]

No quantification was included in my previous post, but I would be willing to bet you my $100 against your $10 that Tressel is NOT the next President of UA. Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Well, you silly goose, of course you included quantification in your previous post when you stated that the probability was not statistically significantly different from zero. As for your bet, my dad always used to tell me that a man's honor was worth more than mere money. I'll bookmark this thread so we can revisit it after the selection process plays out, and one of us can do the honorable thing and admit that we were wrong. To be clear, my position is not that Tressel is a lock for the presidency, but that he's a leading candidate who will get serious (not token) consideration and has a much better than zero chance.

[Zipmeister]

Well, you silly goose, of course you included quantification in your previous post when you stated that the probability was not statistically significantly different from zero. As for your bet, my dad always used to tell me that a man's honor was worth more than mere money. I'll bookmark this thread so we can revisit it after the selection process plays out, and one of us can do the honorable thing and admit that we were wrong. To be clear, my position is not that Tressel is a lock for the presidency, but that he's a leading candidate who will get serious (not token) consideration and has a much better than zero chance.

To be clear my point was that the outgoing president's recommendation would have little influence on the selection of his replacement. Making $10 off you was just a side benefit.

[GP1]

If UA hires Tressel as president, even on an interim basis, it will be a huge embarrassment for the university. You do NOT hire a person without a PhD for the head spot at a university. No exceptions, especially for a glorified football coach. I don't care how much money he can bring in. That's what fundraisers are for, not incredibly important hirings.

Great, great, great post zestycoyote!!!

After many years of Proenza being president, there seem to be some smells around that don't quite sit well with me. Namely, the school is $25 million in the red while enrollment and retention are in decline. It happened on his watch AND is directly contrary to what he said would happen if the University followed his plan. UofA might have a Proenza overindulgence hangover for a few years.

What evidence is there Tressel has demonstrated any leadership in solving a problem as big as UofA being $25 million in the red? Offering discounts for summer school? UofA has huge problems that a football coach can't solve. This isn't a knock on Tressel either because he is being asked to help with problems he has no experience in solving. Maybe the solution isn't someone with a PhD, but someone with experience in solving big problems and making difficult decisions. Tressel has no experience in solving. Bring someone in who does and find ways to use Tressel more effectively if the next president sees value in paying him $200K for whatever he does for a living.

[ZippyRulz]

Right. UA needs a university role model. How about Purdue University, ranked by U.S. News & World Report as one of the country's top 25 public universities with a current endowment value of about $2 billion. Their search for a new president is summarized on Purdue's website here. And the unanimous choice of the board of trustees was announced on Purdue's website here as "an innovative, game-changing move for Purdue." So a career politician without a PhD is qualified to run a bigger, more prestigious university than UA.

Non-PhD business executives are another pool to draw from. Tressel isn't exactly that either but certainly has experience running a big show and has the political ties to Columbus. He might be the best one to get an arena built and expand the "front porch" of UA.

http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/02...ity-presidents/

[jupitertoo]

Non-PhD business executives are another pool to draw from. Tressel isn't exactly that either but certainly has experience running a big show and has the political ties to Columbus. He might be the best one to get an arena built and expand the "front porch" of UA.

http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2008/02...ity-presidents/

Devastating column in today's ABJ. I hope the board heeds the call for an investment in academics rather than buildings. (And that should preclude hiring Mr. Tressel, thank you very much.)

ABJ column

[LZIp]

Do athletic directors with years of experience at a D-1 school have experience managing money?

[GP1]

Devastating column in today's ABJ. I hope the board heeds the call for an investment in academics rather than buildings. (And that should preclude hiring Mr. Tressel, thank you very much.)

ABJ column

Nice post and thanks for the lead on the story. Very upsetting in many aspects because it looks so bad and those graduating in 4-6 years are departing with a great degree. Like I said, UofA has some huge problems that a college football coach simply isn't equipped to address.

[GP1]

Do athletic directors with years of experience at a D-1 school have experience managing money?

Yes. They also exist in a world that is largely outside of the norm for that a university president manages.

Could we take a risk with a former AD (I assume you mean Tressel's time at YSU, which doesn't qualify him for President at UofA because I don't want us to be YSU)? Yes, but it would not be a decision UofA needs right now. The statistics listed in jupitertoo's article should be reason for pause. On the surface, one who is focused on all the wrong ideas would believe there is nothing wrong at UofA because they see all new buildings and stadiums, etc. There is always more than meets the eye though. Proenza is leaving a mess in his wake and the mess is going to need some cleaning up. Proenza HAS left something to work with....he just didn't execute very well the last couple of years. It's good for UofA he is leaving before it gets worse.

[LZIp]

Yes. They also exist in a world that is largely outside of the norm for that a university president manages.

Could we take a risk with a former AD (I assume you mean Tressel's time at YSU, which doesn't qualify him for President at UofA because I don't want us to be YSU)? Yes, but it would not be a decision UofA needs right now. The statistics listed in jupitertoo's article should be reason for pause. On the surface, one who is focused on all the wrong ideas would believe there is nothing wrong at UofA because they see all new buildings and stadiums, etc. There is always more than meets the eye though. Proenza is leaving a mess in his wake and the mess is going to need some cleaning up. Proenza HAS left something to work with....he just didn't execute very well the last couple of years. It's good for UofA he is leaving before it gets worse.

unfortunately, when I try to click on jupiterroo's link it says the link is out of date or broken. But from what you said, so much for Proenza's '2020 vision'. heh.

[GP1]

unfortunately, when I try to click on jupiterroo's link it says the link is out of date or broken. But from what you said, so much for Proenza's '2020 vision'. heh.

No. It is a good vision. Maybe it is important at this point to bring someone in who can execute on some of the major points better. We are falling behind on two of the first three listed.

I think now is a good time for Dr. Proenza and UofA to make a change. It will be good for everyone and provide UofA with an opportunity to freshen things up. Change can be a very good thing.

I'd like UofA to find a Mike Thomas of university presidents. A smart young person with a huge intellect who is good at leading an organization.

[Dave in Green]

unfortunately, when I try to click on jupiterroo's link it says the link is out of date or broken. ...

A little sloppy with the links, eh? Here's the link he was trying to post.

Folks used to criticize UA for not having a real campus. So they build a real campus, and it's on to the next criticism.

[GP1]

Folks used to criticize UA for not having a real campus. So they build a real campus, and it's on to the next criticism.

What's wrong with being critical of a taxpayer supported institution when it is falling short of the goals it established for itself?

[mbalsinger]

Folks used to criticize UA for not having a real campus. So they build a real campus, and it's on to the next criticism.

We the alumni (and current students) should be the MOST critical of the University of Akron...Because we are the ones who care about it, want it to be better, and can inspire change. I don't believe there is any criticism that we may have that others do not have.

[legendofzippy]

The 38% grad rate is bad, and lower than I would have guessed. However, why so much blame on the University? Let's put some blame on the students. We often criticize the next generation for being too entitled - are we starting to see the effects of that?

Just because you enroll doesn't mean you're going to graduate. We all busted our butts do get a degree, so if 62% aren't doing the same, then what are we supposed to do? Have professors go around and wake kids up and force them to study? Confiscate all their video games? Give me a break.

[GP1]

We all busted our butts do get a degree, so if 62% aren't doing the same, then what are we supposed to do?

Do a better job of attracting and admitting students interested in graduating in a reasonable time.

It's not like UofA is a little behind. It is behind Wright Freaking State for crying out loud.

[g-mann17]

Devastating column in today's ABJ. I hope the board heeds the call for an investment in academics rather than buildings. (And that should preclude hiring Mr. Tressel, thank you very much.)

ABJ column

I agree, the first step is to start eliminating professors that spend all day on the PC criticizing the Univeristy instead of teaching their students.

[Dr Z]

The *(14 percent in 4 years & 38 percent in 6 years) grad rate is bad, and lower than I would have guessed. However, why so much blame on the University? Let's put some blame on the students.

Because similar universities are better.

The local university was judged using exactly the same criteria as Miami (70 percent graduate in four years, 82 percent in six years), Ohio State (51 and 80), Ohio U (44 and 65), Bowling Green (35 and 58), Can't State (26 and 50), Toledo (24 and 46) and so on down the line. UA has a graduation rate that is 20 percent below the national average and near the bottom of the pack in Ohio.

*Proper figures inserted

[g-mann17]

What's wrong with being critical of a taxpayer supported institution when it is falling short of the goals it established for itself?

What's wrong is the primary focus on the negative and the lack of information regarding cause.

The state required the University to allow all who applied to attend. Graduation rate has not been a major issue to now. Very few comparative statistics. Like BGSU's 35% graduation rate or Can't's 49%. No information that transfers impact the graduation rate or the fact a half time student would take 8 years or more to complete a degree.

It's a lot of scorn with very little fact, click bait is what I call this article.

[Dave in Green]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with criticism. I believe in real, constructive criticism. That begins with a true understanding of the origins and nature of the problem.

[Big Zip]

I would love to see some real journalism on this front. Why doesn't the ABJ (your local newspaper) poll 100 or 200 students who have not graduated in six years. I don't know how they get this information but I'm sure there is enough information readily available. Hell reference local HS graduations with FB to see who says they are at UA. Contact those individuals and find out why people aren't graduating. Actual do some leg work and journalism to try to understand the problem instead of just criticizing the University.

What would be interesting to see from this research.

# of Students who started school 7 years ago at Akron

# of Students still attending school at Akron

# of Students who earned an Associate Degree

# of Students who transferred out

# of Students who dropped out in after year 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

# of Students from group above who plan to go back to school

We all know the traditional student at Akron is different than the traditional student at Miami so comparing them isn't perhaps the best choice but we definitely should be compared against schools like Toledo, CSU, Wright State, Youngstown State etc.

[g-mann17]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with criticism. I believe in real, constructive criticism. That begins with a true understanding of the origins and nature of the problem.

Yes but this article is not designed to be constructive, just critical.

In order to increase graduation rate you have attract the best students and increase enrollment requirements. There is no way UA of 1991 is able to do either of those. No honors programs, no real attractions to compete against other universities. So there is no way you can compete for top students. In fact when I enrolled in 1996 it was literally a choice made out of convenience. The only top students we attracted were for engineering, and we were starting to lose that battle. Attendance was at a 25 year low (I believe sub 20,000)

We have begun to attract more students and we have begun to deny students. The graduation rate is going to increase because we are attracting more serious students not just those that think they are supposed to go to college and not just letting in anyone that wants to enroll. What we really need is for Summit College to become a true Community College so that we have a feeder and a place to send students that aren't ready and can save money while getting a taste for college level work.

There are things in place already to increase the graduation rate.

[legendofzippy]

Because similar universities are better.

The local university was judged using exactly the same criteria as Miami (70 percent graduate in four years, 82 percent in six years), Ohio State (51 and 80), Ohio U (44 and 65), Bowling Green (35 and 58), Can't State (26 and 50), Toledo (24 and 46) and so on down the line. UA has a graduation rate that is 20 percent below the national average and near the bottom of the pack in Ohio.

*Proper figures inserted

How do I know they're "better"? If they have easier classes, which are easier to pass, are they "better"?

I have an engineering degree, and I had to work hard to get it. Buy UA is highly respected in that field so it was worth it. I'm not for lowering standards. My friends who didn't get degrees weren't hard workers. Tough luck, that's the way the world works.

Admittedly, I'm big on personal responsibility so I'll be harsher on the students because of it. But I say if you're going to college, put in the work necessary to get the degree. You're an adult now, it's not on someone else for you to get a diploma.

[Dave in Green]

@g-mann17, I agree with your assessment and appreciate your efforts to bring out the kind of background information required to make informed decisions. Bob Dyer's opinion column (it's not a news story) is defined by its first 11 words -- The silence is deafening. This community should be up in arms ... . The purpose of that column is not to educate but a call to arms. It's a one-sided effort to stir up an angry, noisy mob, which is pretty much the definition of yellow journalism. It was a wasted opportunity to take a deeper look at the issue and make a calm, rational call for more detailed research and investigation into causes and solutions.

I'm hoping to see more rational discussion on the subject here rather than the angry mob mentality of looking for a scapegoat to run out of town. As much as I appreciate the value of considering numbers and stats, I'm in full agreement with those who believe that raw numbers and stats alone don't tell the whole story, whether in sports or in graduation rates.

[GP1]

"These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." - The American Crisis

The words above were written by American Patriot Thomas Paine. The first in a series of documents that later became known as Common Sense. Calls to arms from writers come in various forms. Some think Dyer's article is too harsh and offers little substance. Maybe, maybe not. Was Thomas Paine too harsh? Was Thomas Paine a yellow journalist? How about if we use it as a springboard to see what else there is to find out? It may not be pretty and the premature discharge of weapons to shoot the messenger here may not be doing anything other than covering up what may be a problem. After years of allowing the University to indulge itself in the "building process", let's see what is really happening.

Dyer's article does not paint a pretty picture. It doesn't take much common sense to know overspending by government bodies creates huge deficits long term...UofA is $25 million in the red. It also doesn't take much common sense to understand that letting every lump who can fill out an application in the door so attendance rates increase may produce poor long term results such as a lot of people not graduating. I find it almost impossible to believe that there are large numbers of people transferring out of Akron because of the large commuter population. It also doesn't take much common sense to know that if there may be huge problems, a college football coach isn't the solution to the problem.

I'm sure the Tories will come in again in an effort to defend the establishment. The establishment is an easy thing to defend because they can create a huge illusion for people. All the while, the truth is bubbling below and ready to explode.

To Bob Dyer, I'd just like to say before your head gets too big from a post linking your words to Thomas Paine....There are guys who post on this board who knew Thomas Paine. There are guys on this board who served with Thomas Paine. You, sire, are no Thomas Paine, but a decent article anyhow.

[LZIp]

Are the numbers embarassing? Yes. But how about we put some of the blame on the students, where it really belongs. Sure, maybe UA has implemented some dirty, unethical, or whatever you want to call it tactics, in admitting students who aren't qualified, have no real shot at graduating college, etc....but can you blame a business for trying to obtain the most revenue possible? How about the failing students and their family face reality and realize that college isnt for them? The world needs ditch diggers, too.

All I can do is praise UA for the opportunities they have given me. I came here as a transfer student from a community college. Had my bumps, but got my crap together and now have a job waiting on my at one of the top companies in my field when I graduate in December. Employers heavily recruit UA for my major, and other majors as well. I'm getting as good of a starting salary as you can get anywhere, even with a Master's, and I'll only have a Bachelor's.

I can do nothing but thank UA for the opportunities they have provided me with. However, I wouldnt have gotten those opportunities without a little bit of self-accountability and motivation. Other students should take note.