Middle Tennessee Game

[Zipgrad01]

Is this supposed to be serious?

Dead serious. They may rebound and win the MAC east, but this is still an average at best basketball team on a national level. The losses of Abreu and Zeke are larger than what people thought. I am trying to "think bigger". It seems like most people on here are content to get whacked against real teams and feast on the MAC.

[skip-zip]

It wouldn't take much to change the condition of the MBB team from very good to excellent.

Obviously, that is a very difficult thing to do.

[legendofzippy]

nvm

You tried. But you know, serves you right for trying to be clever.

[legendofzippy]

Dead serious. They may rebound and win the MAC east, but this is still an average at best basketball team on a national level. The losses of Abreu and Zeke are larger than what people thought. I am trying to "think bigger". It seems like most people on here are content to get whacked against real teams and feast on the MAC.

Don't backpedal. You said a bad team. Average on a national level? No, stick to your original comment.

[UAZip0510]

Can you say that the program has made progress in the last 5-6 years?

Absolutely. Last season, they:

- Were ranked in the Top 25 for the first time in school history

- Posted their best conference record since joining the MAC in 1992

- Graduated their best NBA prospect in 25 years. (Yes, I know, he didn't make it...but when was the last time we had a player that close?)

This season, they:

- Have another NBA prospect in POY-candidate Demetrius Treadwell

- Are favorites in the MAC despite losing Marshall, Walsh, Gilliam, and Abreu - four of their five starters before Abreu's arrest

- Have the chance to break Miami's record of consecutive championship game appearances if they reach their 6th in a row

- Have four players in Aaron Jackson, Kwan Cheatham, BJ Gladden, and "Big Dog" Johnson who would easily crack many MAC team's rotations. Three of the four will likely redshirt

Seeing them lose to St. Marys and Middle Tennessee sucked, but I'm not sure you can say this program hasn't made progress or that they've peaked under Dambrot. Sure, that elusive NCAA Tournament win hasn't happened yet, but this program is clearly better today than it was 5-6 years ago when the Zips were losing 5-6 conference games.

Zips just need to take a step back, fix a few things, and start a big-time winning streak.

[legendofzippy]

That's the rub for me. I don't think we have done nothing in the post season. To me, the MAC Championship is a pretty good accomplishment.

There is another side to this. What about the team that gets in the ncaa tournament on a fluke and wins a game or two? Does that make that program great or does it make it a program that went on a nice run. I would love to have VCUs Final Four run, but that doesn't make them a great program. They weren't even a great team that season. Here is an article on their run. A lot of things went their way.

Again, I'd love to win an NCAA game or two. However, I also like to look at their body of work throughout the season. We are less than a handful of games into this season and there is no reason for fans to be talking in cliches about the "program taking a step backward", etc. Now isn't the time for overreaction. I prefer to take the season as it comes and make a decision about the condition of the program after completion of the season.

Well said. People that aren't happy with winning the MAC are babies in my opinion. Go look at the history of our program. Decades of fans would have killed for the success we're having now, so enjoy it.

Not saying we can't criticize anything, but stop acting like a marketing campaign of "think bigger" entitles you to NCAA wins.

I'd say the best MAC team in recent memory was Wally's Miami team. They made a nice run, then basically fell off the map. Can't and OU in recent years made nice runs, but would you trade places with either right now? Keep winning the conference, keep the top notch recruits coming, and enjoy the ride.

[Zipgrad01]

Don't backpedal. You said a bad team. Average on a national level? No, stick to your original comment.

I am not backpedaling. There are like 350 D1 basketball teams. An average team is bad.

[LZIp]

You tried. But you know, serves you right for trying to be clever.

I originally asked DiG if he was talking to me. He didnt have my post quoted at first.

[MDZip]

- Have the chance to break Miami's record of consecutive championship game appearances if they reach their 6th in a row

Actually they broke that record two years ago. It is amazing to think that this would be the Zips Eighth straight championship game, especially considering they had never appeared in it before that.

[Valpo Zip]

Absolutely. Last season, they:

- Were ranked in the Top 25 for the first time in school history

- Posted their best conference record since joining the MAC in 1992

- Graduated their best NBA prospect in 25 years. (Yes, I know, he didn't make it...but when was the last time we had a player that close?)

This season, they:

- Have another NBA prospect in POY-candidate Demetrius Treadwell

- Are favorites in the MAC despite losing Marshall, Walsh, Gilliam, and Abreu - four of their five starters before Abreu's arrest

- Have the chance to break Miami's record of consecutive championship game appearances if they reach their 6th in a row

- Have four players in Aaron Jackson, Kwan Cheatham, BJ Gladden, and "Big Dog" Johnson who would easily crack many MAC team's rotations. Three of the four will likely redshirt

Seeing them lose to St. Marys and Middle Tennessee sucked, but I'm not sure you can say this program hasn't made progress or that they've peaked under Dambrot. Sure, that elusive NCAA Tournament win hasn't happened yet, but this program is clearly better today than it was 5-6 years ago when the Zips were losing 5-6 conference games.

Zips just need to take a step back, fix a few things, and start a big-time winning streak.

I am glad to see someone willing to argument reasonably without being rude and kicking people out of zips fanhood. Thank you UAzip0510, I apreciate posters like you.

I understand your points but, with all respect, I feel that you are seeing things from a Zips homer perspective and that you are satisfied with collecting moral victories (which is fine). I, on the other side), am looking at it from the perspective of an average Joe national basketball fan (my neighbors and coworkers, etc...)

When we discuss whether the program has stagnated or is it still peaking, I suggested a 5 level scale below and noted that has moved the program from level 5 to 3 in the first 3 years and we've been stuck at 3 for the last 7. Am I wrong?

Now that you are suggesting other measurement criteria, which again, to me feel more like moral victories than real success, I will still debate you on them:

- Were ranked in the Top 25 for the first time in school history

As nice as that was to us (hardcore fans), unfortunately, what matters to the general public is where you stand at the finish line. 80% of the national bball fans only watched one zips game last year and that was the one we lost by 40?

- Posted their best conference record since joining the MAC in 1992

That's great. But we had a similar record in the 26-7 season of 2007. We all know that this doesn't mean much to the national audience and the NCAA committee.

- Graduated their best NBA prospect in 25 years. (Yes, I know, he didn't make it...but when was the last time we had a player that close?)

That's a BIG moral victory if you ask me. Romeo Travis played on an NBA practice squad and Nate Linhart had a NBADL contract. Zeke didn't do either (nothing against Zeke here). But I don't think that this indicates that the program is now better than where it was few years ago.

- Have another NBA prospect in POY-candidate Demetrius Treadwell

Again we had Romeo Travis few years ago, etc...

- Are favorites in the MAC despite losing Marshall, Walsh, Gilliam, and Abreu - four of their five starters before Abreu's arrest

We've been MAC favorites before, that doesn't mean much. When your season rests on only 3 games at the Q, anything can happen. We learned that in 2006.

- Have the chance to break Miami's record of consecutive championship game appearances if they reach their 6th in a row

Who really cares? would you not trade that to getting an at-large bid and a decent seed? how about a tourney win?

- Have four players in Aaron Jackson, Kwan Cheatham, BJ Gladden, and "Big Dog" Johnson who would easily crack many MAC team's rotations. Three of the four will likely redshirt

I never questioned the quality of our recruits. I think that we have great players every year. I think that we had better talent than MTSU and ST. Mary and Coastal last year, and Oral Roberts the year before, etc... That's what makes things more frustrating.

[GP1]

Keep winning the conference, keep the top notch recruits coming, and enjoy the ride.

You're forgetting the most important part. If the team does all of these things, better things will follow.

[zippy5]

"Stagnating" for a year isn't going to hurt us. I want to see big wins now, but if we have our "normal" 20+ win season and MAC championship, we aren't taking any steps back as far as recruits, and future seasons. Still, we're three games deep. Kind of premature for this conversation.

[Dave in Green]

... It seems like most people on here are content to get whacked against real teams and feast on the MAC.

What, we have to stomp our feet, throw a tantrum and pee all over the coach and team every time they don't live up to the highest expectations to prove that we're "not content?" It's actually possible to not be content with the status quo while still giving the Zips credit for what they do accomplish and not going into a Debbie Downer funk. Every Zips fan wants the Zips to keep getting better. We just react and express ourselves differently.

[Dave in Green]

@LZip, sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my Kentucky comment. I understood that your comment about Kentucky was a play on someone else's comment. I was only quoting your comment to make the point of what happened to Kentucky last season. Kentucky lost one key player and failed to make the NCAA tournament. The Zips lost one key player and did make the NCAA tournament. If someone had made that prediction on this forum at the beginning of last season, most would have laughed at it. That's the only point I was trying to make.

[Zipgrad01]

What, we have to stomp our feet, throw a tantrum and pee all over the coach and team every time they don't live up to the highest expectations to prove that we're "not content?" It's actually possible to not be content with the status quo while still giving the Zips credit for what they do accomplish and not going into a Debbie Downer funk. Every Zips fan wants the Zips to keep getting better. We just react and express ourselves differently.

It is the same conversation EVERY year. I am sick of it. I am sick of "think bigger". I am sick of hearing about how great our recruits are. I am sick of hearing about how we should win games in the tourney. Win some freaking games that matter!! Everyone except the diehards move on from us having any credibility once we relegate ourselves to winning the MAC. Nobody cares about the MAC.

[UAZip0510]

Actually they broke that record two years ago. It is amazing to think that this would be the Zips Eighth straight championship game, especially considering they had never appeared in it before that.

Whoops, good call...I'm not sure why I was thinking five...selling our boys short!

[UAZip0510]

I am glad to see someone willing to argument reasonably without being rude and kicking people out of zips fanhood. Thank you UAzip0510, I apreciate posters like you.

I understand your points but, with all respect, I feel that you are seeing things from a Zips homer perspective and that you are satisfied with collecting moral victories (which is fine). I, on the other side), am looking at it from the perspective of an average Joe national basketball fan (my neighbors and coworkers, etc...)

When we discuss whether the program has stagnated or is it still peaking, I suggested a 5 level scale below and noted that has moved the program from level 5 to 3 in the first 3 years and we've been stuck at 3 for the last 7. Am I wrong?

Now that you are suggesting other measurement criteria, which again, to me feel more like moral victories than real success, I will still debate you on them:

- Were ranked in the Top 25 for the first time in school history

As nice as that was to us (hardcore fans), unfortunately, what matters to the general public is where you stand at the finish line. 80% of the national bball fans only watched one zips game last year and that was the one we lost by 40?

- Posted their best conference record since joining the MAC in 1992

That's great. But we had a similar record in the 26-7 season of 2007. We all know that this doesn't mean much to the national audience and the NCAA committee.

- Graduated their best NBA prospect in 25 years. (Yes, I know, he didn't make it...but when was the last time we had a player that close?)

That's a BIG moral victory if you ask me. Romeo Travis played on an NBA practice squad and Nate Linhart had a NBADL contract. Zeke didn't do either (nothing against Zeke here). But I don't think that this indicates that the program is now better than where it was few years ago.

- Have another NBA prospect in POY-candidate Demetrius Treadwell

Again we had Romeo Travis few years ago, etc...

- Are favorites in the MAC despite losing Marshall, Walsh, Gilliam, and Abreu - four of their five starters before Abreu's arrest

We've been MAC favorites before, that doesn't mean much. When your season rests on only 3 games at the Q, anything can happen. We learned that in 2006.

- Have the chance to break Miami's record of consecutive championship game appearances if they reach their 6th in a row

Who really cares? would you not trade that to getting an at-large bid and a decent seed? how about a tourney win?

- Have four players in Aaron Jackson, Kwan Cheatham, BJ Gladden, and "Big Dog" Johnson who would easily crack many MAC team's rotations. Three of the four will likely redshirt

I never questioned the quality of our recruits. I think that we have great players every year. I think that we had better talent than MTSU and ST. Mary and Coastal last year, and Oral Roberts the year before, etc... That's what makes things more frustrating.

Thanks for your kind words, I appreciate your posts as well. Some responses:

- IMO 80% of national basketball fans only watch 1-2 games of most mid-majors all season. We're not on the level of a VCU or Gonzaga yet, but very few mid-majors are. I'm more interested at in-state respect. During our winning streak and national ranking, we were getting a ton of press in the local media and even led one Ohio.com writer to ask who would win between OSU and Akron.

- Zeke being a legitmate NBA prospect and Tree potentially being a legitimate NBA prospect are both examples of our level of talent increasing. I love Romeo and Dru, but the only reason they got invited to play on the Cavs Summer League squad was because of their friendship with LeBron. Nobody ever looked at them as a potential NBA player. Love Nate Linhart as well, but I don't think anyone viewed him in that way either. Zeke was brought in to work out with several NBA teams, got a summer league based on talent/potential, and could have easily played in the D-League had he decided to. I just don't think his (or Tree's potential) situations are similar to Romeo, Dru, or Nate's.

- I agree that being MAC favorites doesn't mean anything, but I think it's realistic to expect, barring serious injury problems, the Zips to be in the MAC Championship again this season. That expectation despite losing four starters is a big indicator of our incoming talent level increasing.

And finally...

I honestly would rather have near-dominance in the MAC over the course of almost a decade that one tournament win. I want both of course...but if you're making me pick, I'm going conference dominance. I love knowing every season has a great chance of ending up with a celebration at The Q. One NCAA win would be AWESOME, but isn't that a bit of a moral victory in itself...?

[skip-zip]

Win some freaking games that matter!!

This is a legitimate display of frustration.

You'd think that we've been good enough, for long enough, that we'd knock off someone that truly gets some national attention. It hasn't happened, and there's been tons of opportunities, and plenty of them have resulted in blowout losses.

I have such high hopes going into some of these games, because I so badly want us to raise our national profile. In addition, I want people outside of Akron who might root for "bigger" schools to finally eat their laughter the next time they think, "Akron can beat on MAC teams....but....now we're seeing what happens when they actually have to play somebody".

I don't like it, and I'll continue to be frustrated as long as we sit here on the cusp of greatness at times, but fail to put together the performances to make it happen.

[LZIp]

Just a thought...Would you trade the recent success (say 5 years) of our program for the success of OU's program? Why/why not?

[Zipgrad01]

This is a legitimate display of frustration.

You'd think that we've been good enough, for long enough, that we'd knock off someone that truly gets some national attention. It hasn't happened, and there's been tons of opportunities, and plenty of them have resulted in blowout losses.

I have such high hopes going into some of these games, because I so badly want us to raise our national profile. In addition, I want people outside of Akron who might root for "bigger" schools to finally eat their laughter the next time they think, "Akron can beat on MAC teams....but....now we're seeing what happens when they actually have to play somebody".

I don't like it, and I'll continue to be frustrated as long as we sit here on the cusp of greatness at times, but fail to put together the performances to make it happen.

Exactly!

[Zipgrad01]

Just a thought...Would you trade the recent success (say 5 years) of our program for the success of OU's program? Why/why not?

Yes. They won on the largest stage. People remember that. Our big stage wins are MAC games or freaking North Dakota State. Unless it is a snow shoveling contest, beating them means nothing.

[UAZip0510]

Just a thought...Would you trade the recent success (say 5 years) of our program for the success of OU's program? Why/why not?

Over the past five years Akron has three MAC Titles and Ohio has two MAC Titles. Would I trade the extra MAC Title for three NCAA Tournament wins and a Sweet Sixteen appearance? I'd say so.

The better question might be be would you trade our three MAC Titles for one MAC Title and an NCAA Tournament win.

[LZIp]

Over the past five years Akron has three MAC Titles and Ohio has two MAC Titles. Would I trade the extra MAC Title for three NCAA Tournament wins and a Sweet Sixteen appearance? I'd say so.

The better question might be be would you trade our three MAC Titles for one MAC Title and an NCAA Tournament win.

I think it is fair to compare ourselves with the other top dog in the MAC, considering many of us consider ourselves the "king" of the conference.

For your question, I am tempted to say yes. Nobody outside of the MAC thinks anything of Akron, and its because we have failed to perform on a national stage. 1 win in the NCAAs probably comes with an upset of a top team in a big time conference, as well as some national recognition. I would say that are program has more consistency than OU, but they have the bigger wins that people remember, that is why I think I would say yes.

[Dave in Green]

I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to use "tantrum" in my last post. I'll just follow up with the Wikipedia definition of tantrum and, without pointing fingers, everyone can decide for themselves if anything on the forum has risen to this level:

A tantrum or temper tantrum is an emotional outbreak, usually associated with children or those in emotional distress, that is typically characterized by stubbornness, crying, screaming, defiance, angry ranting, a resistance to attempts at pacification ... A tantrum may be expressed in a tirade: a protracted, angry, or violent speech.

I think some Zips fans have calmly and intelligently expressed disappointment that the Zips appear to be "stuck" at "only" winning consistently at the MAC level and not beyond. There are some fair points to be made in this area, and I believe that all Zips fans share this disappointment to some degree. I also see some people totally focused on the negative and reluctant to acknowledge anything positive. The Mississippi State upset two years ago seemed to be forgotten by some as soon as the next Zips loss occurred. The 19-game winning streak last season, which generated huge publicity for the Zips, is never acknowledged by the most negative posters even though no team in the country beat it. For some, everything positive is brushed aside and everything negative is magnified.

I sincerely believe that some on this forum will never be satisfied no matter what the Zips do. @GP1 said today that going to the final four doesn't make VCU a great program, so I guess that would also apply to the Zips if they ever made it. I think if the Zips went to the final four, some on here would put more focus on losing and not winning the national championship. And heaven forbid that the Zips should ever win a national championship, because after that nothing less than a national championship every season would ever be adequate.

Life is a mix of ups and downs, positive and negative, good and bad. It takes thoughtful perspective in order to have realistic expectations. Am I pleased that the Zips lose the majority of games that they're predicted to lose? No. Am I pleased that they win most of the games that they're favored to win and a few of the games they're predicted to lose? Yes. Am I pleased that the Zips don't play consistently throughout the season? No. Am I pleased that they tend to play better at the end of the season than the beginning? Yes.

I'm aware of the ups and downs, the positives and the negatives, the good and the bad. I acknowledge both sides. From what I read on this forum I don't believe that everyone else does.

[legendofzippy]

It is the same conversation EVERY year. I am sick of it. I am sick of "think bigger". I am sick of hearing about how great our recruits are. I am sick of hearing about how we should win games in the tourney. Win some freaking games that matter!! Everyone except the diehards move on from us having any credibility once we relegate ourselves to winning the MAC. Nobody cares about the MAC.

Do everyone a favor and take your "fandom" somewhere else.

I'm sure you played your D1 ball at a much higher level than the MAC, but the rest of us slobs are pretty happy with our team.