9100 Attendance

[K92]

Hold up.

NIU is having attendance issues?

How can that be? I was told winning solves those problems.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Hold up.

NIU is having attendance issues?

How can that be? I was told winning solves those problems.

I'll take winning as a first step to increasing attendance, rather than crawling into the fetal position.

[K92]

I'll take winning as a first step to increasing attendance, rather than crawling into the fetal position.

I'll take winning even if it means decreased attendance.

[ZippyRulz]

I won't even post the link to the recent ABJ attendance article, but it says that Prez SS says he wouldn't have built the new stadium. Anyone have any insight or has heard him comment as to what he would have done instead?

[skip-zip]

Well, I guess it's easy for Dr. S. to look back and say that a new stadium didn't solve our problem. I often wonder where all of those people started spending their Saturdays, who insisted that all they wanted was something on the campus and a heated bathroom for throngs of people to start flooding to Akron football games.

But as a financial issue, we HAD to build a new stadium. We had no other option. ZippyRulz question above is a legitimate one.

As for the comments about Season Ticket sales increasing, I have to assume that everyone does not know that the season tickets from the die-hards make up a very small portion of total game attendance. Those single game tickets purchased at the gate are the difference-makers in the end.

[Dr Z]

I won't even post the link to the recent ABJ attendance article, but it says that Prez SS says he wouldn't have built the new stadium. Anyone have any insight or has heard him comment as to what he would have done instead?

Ignoring the issue will not make it go away. Here is the full article. I thought it was well written.

I'm not sure you conveyed the quote properly. I wish it was explained more though.

“I would not have built that stadium,” he said, putting extra emphasis on the word “that” during a recent interview with the Beacon Journal editorial board."

I like this tidbit, since I have been suggesting it for two decades.

"The school wants to create a family friendly atmosphere and is spending more time at community festivals promoting the games and team.“We have to be out in the community and be a part of the community every day,” Van Horne said. UA plans to start marketing its fall sports in July with a billboard campaign, radio campaign and direct mailing. “We know that people take their eye off Zips athletics in the summer,” Van Horne said. “You’ll start to see us come July 1 market the football program, the soccer program and our other fall sports more.”

Many, me included, thought this was a great idea. Glad to see it's being considered again.

"The university gave away free tuition for the spring 2015 semester to three students who came to the game against Bowling Green. A fourth winner was selected through a social media contest. That cost the school $16,097.The scholarship promotion was so well-received that the university is considering doing it again this coming season, possibly at more than one game. The school is looking for sponsors to underwrite the cost of the giveaway, Van Horne said."

The student support part of the article could, and should, be an entire piece.

[Balsy]

But as a financial issue, we HAD to build a new stadium. We had no other option.

HAD to build a new stadium? Did we have to? We could have pulled a UAB and just gotten rid of the program entirely, focusing our resources instead on a National Championship calibur soccer team and a emerging MAC basketball program.

But hindsight is 20/20. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the movement to build a stadium on campus wasn't overnight.

[zippy5]

I think we need an national championship calibur English program

[Dave in Green]

Putting extra emphasis on that implies that Dr. Scarborough would not have built that particular stadium but a different one, probably a smaller one at lower cost to relieve the debt load. Otherwise he would have said he would not have built a (as in any) new stadium. It's always easy to say something like that in retrospect. The more interesting question is what Dr. Scarborough would have approved had he been in charge at the time the decision was made with the data that Dr. Proenza had available to him.

Of course we'll never know what the new on-campus stadium would have accomplished attendance-wise if it had been combined with a winning football team. The three consecutive 1-11 seasons were pretty toxic to what was already a tepid fan base. That dug a hole much deeper than the new stadium's foundation. All we can do is speculate how many consecutive winning seasons it would take to create enough of a buzz around Zips football to attract consistently decent crowds. It does seem that they're making a better effort to market the program, and that they're aware how important the new AD will be to that effort.

[lance99]

Listening to the interview from WAKR this morning, I am not sure it is damage control, or just bad marketing?

[K92]

Question for Skip:

There are twice as many "die-hards" this year?

I disagree.

There are the same number of "die-hards" as there ever was. The increase in sales is due to new season ticket holders or from returning season ticket holders who quit buying somewhere along the holocaust timeline.

"Die-hards" don't quit coming because the team is losing, but I do agree with you season ticket sales are a small portion of total sales.

[K92]

[Dr Z]

Putting extra emphasis on that implies that Dr. Scarborough would not have built that particular stadium but a different one, probably a smaller one at lower cost to relieve the debt load. Otherwise he would have said he would not have built a (as in any) new stadium. It's always easy to say something like that in retrospect. The more interesting question is what Dr. Scarborough would have approved had he been in charge at the time the decision was made with the data that Dr. Proenza had available to him.

I assumed as much, but wish a line of questions followed. I wanted to read more from Dr S. If you go back and look at the stadium thread, there was not much talk of making the stadium smaller. I do remember comments on the stadium being able to be expanded. Some were writing about the size of the stadium having to do with moving up to a "better" conference? How much would a smaller stadium have saved them? Would the major donors still give if they were to build a smaller venue? IMO it seems like a pretty ambiguous comment by Dr S. Does criticizing a past decision really help focus on the current issues at hand? Did he not know about this before he agreed to take the job? Should CK have shown him his 'Football Holocaust' documentary featuring a (cough cough) "coach" I can't even bring myself to type anymore? It could start to sound like an early excuse to some. I would hope he has a solution in mind.

Listening to the interview from WAKR this morning, I am not sure it is damage control, or just bad marketing?

Thanks for posting. Sparse Zoo for the Roo.

John Harper of the Northeast Ohio group writes 100 words on the subject.

[morris buttermaker]

We could have pulled a UAB and just gotten rid of the program entirely, focusing our resources instead on a National Championship calibur soccer team and a emerging MAC basketball program.

College sports are a business ... And unfortunately Akron's are bad business. The emerging MAC basketball team? Avgs about 2500 paying fans... Soccer? A flagship sport?.... Some tough sledding ahead

[a-zip]

College sports are a business ... And unfortunately Akron's are bad business. The emerging MAC basketball team? Avgs about 2500 paying fans... Soccer? A flagship sport?.... Some tough sledding ahead

This is what I have been saying all along. I hope I am wrong but unless something changes dramatically, there will be a big rotting stadium in the middle of our beautiful campus. None of this bodes well for a new basketball arena either. It is mind boggling to me with the population surrounding that we can't get more people to go to games (and please spare me the losing seasons talk) My response to that will be the same which is our basketball team IS a winner and does not draw either.

When I read about the money people pay to go to an OSU game….rain, shine, snow, shitty opponent, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday…any freaking day and at any hour it makes my head hurt. I am not talking about a sellout folks, I am talking about averaging the 15K required. It is pitiful.

From a "business" standpoint Dr. S comments are right on point and responsible. There was nothing to show that the community would support the Info and I don't see anything to justify a new basketball arena. I liked Dr. Proenza but it sure looks like he left a shit sandwich for Dr. Scarborough.

[K92]

I realize it's impossible to quantify, but having the worst attendance in all of FBS has to seriously damage the ability to recruit.

It's all a big circle.

[a-zip]

I realize it's impossible to quantify, but having the worst attendance in all of FBS has to seriously damage the ability to recruit.

It's all a big circle.

ABSOFRICKENLUTELY!!!!!

[Captain Kangaroo]

I liked Dr. Proenza but it sure looks like he left a shit sandwich for Dr. Scarborough.

We should all hope to have a "shit sandwich" like a new $65 million football stadium on campus.

As the great philosopher Flava Flav once wrote: "Don't believe the hype."

Have you ever heard Tom Wistercill publicly state ANYTHING like: "What a HUGE f*ck up I made. I had one f*cking thing to do...hire a real football coach to fill a brand new, beautiful stadium complete with a brand f*cking new, state of the are indoor training facility...and I COMPLETELY screwed it up. I hired a complete know-nothing jerkwad, and look what I did...I almost single-handedly ruined Akron football."

No, he never says anything like it. It isn't in his best interest to point the finger at himself as a prime contributor to why it has been an albatross. And in Akron, devoid of any real news outlets or fan base, 800lb gorillas can easily be swept under the rug. The excuse is the fans...the excuse is Ohio State...the excuse is "the youth of today"...the excuse is...anything but - "I screwed up."

Toxic Tom Wistercill was a remora on the belly of Caleb Porter's accomplishments and of Mike Thomas' hires. He was less than worthless, and that's why he's gone.

Who else could turn a five-star restaurant into a Shit Sandwich Factory?

If Scarborough is publicly bemoaning the still-relatively-new football stadium, shame on him. If he has no employees bursting with ideas to fill it up, then shame on him. Anyone can sit with a thumb up their butt and blame the guy before him for all his seemingly insurmountable problems. If we hired such a guy as our President, then we screwed up to a level beyond royally...we screwed up polytechnically.

Some saps will fall hook-line-and-sinker for the "we made a mistake building the stadium" excuse. Because they blindly believe everything that people in authority say. Giving Wistercill a sweet new stadium was like giving a bloated, dead boll weevil an accordion. It doesn't matter how expensive the accordion is....bloated dead boll weevils can't polka.

K.e.n.t. football can win in the MAC. They proved it 2 years ago. It doesn't take much. Bowden can do it. I believe in the guy.

But it pisses me off when someone tries to sell me on the theory that UA's top-notch football assets are an detriment. Flava Flav don't believe it, and you shouldn't either.

[Balsy]

College sports are a business ... And unfortunately Akron's are bad business. The emerging MAC basketball team? Avgs about 2500 paying fans... Soccer? A flagship sport?.... Some tough sledding ahead

Which is why I was advocating a smart strategy instead of a money wasting one. It's obviously a business that they're in for some sort of recognition nationwide outside of academics. Why not advocate for a cheaper, far more productive, strategy? You cannot tell me the cost of having football is somehow on par with what we gain from having football. Number of fans or not, the benefit really doesn't seem to be there.

I love football, I will continue supporting athletics. But the contention still stands there that a possible alternative to building a brand new $65-million dollar stadium, was getting rid of the program.

[wadscarman]

Putting extra emphasis on that implies that Dr. Scarborough would not have built that particular stadium but a different one, probably a smaller one at lower cost to relieve the debt load. Otherwise he would have said he would not have built a (as in any) new stadium. It's always easy to say something like that in retrospect. The more interesting question is what Dr. Scarborough would have approved had he been in charge at the time the decision was made with the data that Dr. Proenza had available to him.

Of course we'll never know what the new on-campus stadium would have accomplished attendance-wise if it had been combined with a winning football team. The three consecutive 1-11 seasons were pretty toxic to what was already a tepid fan base. That dug a hole much deeper than the new stadium's foundation. All we can do is speculate how many consecutive winning seasons it would take to create enough of a buzz around Zips football to attract consistently decent crowds. It does seem that they're making a better effort to market the program, and that they're aware how important the new AD will be to that effort.

Isn't Dr. Scarborough really questioning the Board of Trustees decision regarding the stadium? I am under the impression, an AD and President take a plan, budget, etc. to the Board of Trustees and THEY are the decision makers. If I am wrong, please let me know.

[Captain Kangaroo]

I realize it's impossible to quantify, but having the worst attendance in all of FBS has to seriously damage the ability to recruit.

It's all a big circle.

K.e.n.t. won 11 games in a single season, overcoming K.e.n.t.'s 40-year football baggage. I am not worried about newspaper articles affecting the Zips recruiting. Quality coaching takes care of any such issues.

To grow football attendance at UA is a huge opportunity for someone. Facilities and coaching are at a high level. If that someone that wants to bust their ass, the table is set for that person to fill the stadium, stuff their résumé, and move on to a huge P5 promotion.

I hope we have such an entrepreneurial "up-and-comer" at UA. I already know what will happen if we don't.

[zip-O-matic]

Could be worse. It's not like The Simpsons are mocking us on national television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2e7VNlr1lw

[Dave in Green]

Isn't Dr. Scarborough really questioning the Board of Trustees decision regarding the stadium? I am under the impression, an AD and President take a plan, budget, etc. to the Board of Trustees and THEY are the decision makers. If I am wrong, please let me know.

You are correct that the Board of Trustees is responsible for approving expenditures of that magnitude. But we really don't know that Dr. Scarborough was questioning anyone's decision because, as Dr Z pointed out, there weren't enough in-depth quotes to understand the full intent of the few words that were published. Maybe his full thought that wasn't properly represented is that knowing what he knows now he wouldn't have pursued building that stadium at that time.

With perfect hindsight it's abundantly clear that it was not financially prudent to approve a capital expenditure of that magnitude just prior to the start of the economic recession of 2008, the worst since the great depression of 1929 and one that this country has not fully recovered from to this day. That's why I said that the more interesting question is what Dr. Scarborough would have approved (taken to the BoT) had he been working with the data that Dr. Proenza (and the BoT) had access to at the time.

[a-zip]

Part of the "shit sandwich" Proenza turned over included TW. I wouldn't expect TW to publicly call himself out in public (c'mon man)….If the AD created the holocaust, why didn't Proenza fire him?! Dr. Scarborough did and it appears he has a big mess to clean up.

My opinion is that Dr. Scarborough's comment about not building "that" stadium has more to do with the size and cost of it. Yes he has the advantage of hindsight but I for one would love to have seen the market studies that justified it all to begin with. Maybe he has seen those, who knows.

There were comments about the previous administration being somewhat of a dictatorship. The "Landscape for Learning" and the "Info" sure are nice to look at but if nobody lives in the dorms and nobody goes to the games - that is bad business. Seems like Proenza was pulling a little smoke and mirror job.

The Info IS a GIANT sixty five million dollar 30,000 seat luxury box turd if nobody goes to it and you can't pay for it.

[Roo]

Is there a real reason why the Info doesn't host more events?

They could severely undercut other venues just to get acts to come, I would assume given how the stadium sits, the acoustics would be great for concerts. Turf field, limited damage possibility there.

I know they do HS football, but there are other ways that stadium could generate revenue for the University.

Beating the dead horse of the Akron fan going is pointless....I don't even think a winner would bring more fans. I do think a better conference would.