Does Dambrot know how to use two 6'11" guys

[RooYahoo]

Dambrot has been very lucky in the MAC to have had Zeke Marshall and now Pat Forsythe and Isaiah Johnson on his teams. I have to question how he uses these players, though. It is shocking to me that Isaiah Johnson will be starting over Pat Forsythe tonight vs Ball State. I really don't see any athletic ability...or am I missing something? This will probably be Forsythe's last year at Akron due to the inconsistencies of the coaching, rumor has it.

Your thoughts and basketball knowledge are very much appreciated. I love learning about players, coaches and programs.

GO ZIPS!

[Dr Z]

Odd topic title. You could have just added to the topic you started in November with a similar theme.

Dambrot recruited Zeke and IJ23, so "lucky" would be an odd way to describe some amount of work that was involved with both playing basketball at the University of Akron. I don't think "lucky" would be a way to describe Pat's situation at Akron either. Here is a quote from him, “Akron is where my dad’s eye doctor is,” Forsythe said. “I was getting interest from Cleveland State and other schools, but Akron was the one that is more convenient for my father and I. It was very important to come back and play locally. I wanted to be closer to my dad, my stepmom and my siblings.” One might argue that Pat was lucky that Akron was able to oblige his situation. Let's hope that in the end, it benefits both.

I'll see how the minutes play out tonight (Pat vs IJ23) before, or if, I comment on the rest of your post. Would this have anything to do with injury (Pat's mouth)? Or is it motivation for one, or both players? Being a nine and a half point favorite at home would be a good time to experiment with lineups. Is it a possible matchup strategy? You might want to listen to Dambrot speak on the radio (1350 AM) after the game. Seems like a question Steve or JJ may ask.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Dambrot has been very lucky in the MAC to have had Zeke Marshall and now Pat Forsythe and Isaiah Johnson on his teams. I have to question how he uses these players, though. It is shocking to me that Isaiah Johnson will be starting over Pat Forsythe tonight vs Ball State. I really don't see any athletic ability...or am I missing something? This will probably be Forsythe's last year at Akron due to the inconsistencies of the coaching, rumor has it.

Your thoughts and basketball knowledge are very much appreciated. I love learning about players, coaches and programs.

GO ZIPS!

Oh lord here we go again.......really?

[The Hip Zip]

I'd love to have 5 centers out there at the same time. Or maybe just 4 and a point guard when we want to go small. We sure as hell couldn't keep up with the opposing team but by Gods will we could lead the nation in goaltending. Just think, we could revolutionize the game right here in good old Akron..

Sorry Roo, just having some fun.....

[Zip_ME87]

Dambrot has been very lucky in the MAC to have had Zeke Marshall and now Pat Forsythe and Isaiah Johnson on his teams. I have to question how he uses these players, though. It is shocking to me that Isaiah Johnson will be starting over Pat Forsythe tonight vs Ball State. I really don't see any athletic ability...or am I missing something? This will probably be Forsythe's last year at Akron due to the inconsistencies of the coaching, rumor has it.

Your thoughts and basketball knowledge are very much appreciated. I love learning about players, coaches and programs.

GO ZIPS!

Perhaps Isaiah Johnson starting tonight has something to do with this: The Zips are hobbled a bit, with 2014 MAC Sixth Man of the Year Jake Kretzer, and starting center Pat Forsythe sidelined the last game with concussions.

[RooYahoo]

Thanks for the input. We'll just let it play out.

[Dave in Green]

RooYahoo, have you been following Pat for long? How much do you know about his game in HS, where I've heard he scored a lot of his points with a mid-range jumper as opposed to doing all of his scoring in the paint? The reason I ask is because I think Pat could make an effective stretch 4 with Big Dog playing the post in the few minutes each game that they're on the court together. Pat appears to have a nice jumper in warmups and has also scored a few in game situations. I think he may be a more multidimensional player than he has shown in the role he's been given so far with the Zips.

[Sportsjunkie330]

Dambrot has been very lucky in the MAC to have had Zeke Marshall and now Pat Forsythe and Isaiah Johnson on his teams. I have to question how he uses these players, though. It is shocking to me that Isaiah Johnson will be starting over Pat Forsythe tonight vs Ball State. I really don't see any athletic ability...or am I missing something? This will probably be Forsythe's last year at Akron due to the inconsistencies of the coaching, rumor has it.

Your thoughts and basketball knowledge are very much appreciated. I love learning about players, coaches and programs.

GO ZIPS!

Looks like you got some bad info

[The Hip Zip]

Another stretch 4 ?? No thanks, Pat proved his worth right where he belongs tonight.

[Dave in Green]

Another stretch 4 ?? No thanks, Pat proved his worth right where he belongs tonight.

By "another stretch 4" I assume you're counting Kwan as the first. You do understand that when Big Dog and Pat are on the floor at the same time that Kwan's on the bench, right? Pat would only move to stretch 4 in the few minutes per game that he and Big Dog are both in the lineup instead of Pat and Kwan or Big Dog and Kwan. Of course Pat's primary position is center and so is Big Dog's. But Pat has the flexibility to play multiple positions and Big Dog doesn't.

[The Hip Zip]

By "another stretch 4" I assume you're counting Kwan as the first. You do understand that when Big Dog and Pat are on the floor at the same time that Kwan's on the bench, right?

Pretty sure that I had that one figured out on my own but thanks for taking the time to break it down for me.

[Dave in Green]

Pretty sure that I had that one figured out on my own but thanks for taking the time to break it down for me.

I was hoping that you'd take the time to break down for me how you think Pat and Big Dog could most effectively be used when they're occasionally on the floor together.

[1981 grad]

They do not function well together. Last night Pat had a bad first half and still scored 16 points. Big Dog needs to be on the bench when Pat is out there and Pat needs to rest when Big Dog is on the floor. Pat needs the paint to himself to be effective. That is why after Tree left he has been so successful. When Bid Dog is playing you have two guys in the post and Pat gets double teamed immediately and has a difficult time. I was glad to see that KD did not have them out there together last night.

[Valpo Zip]

They do not function well together. Last night Pat had a bad first half and still scored 16 points. Big Dog needs to be on the bench when Pat is out there and Pat needs to rest when Big Dog is on the floor. Pat needs the paint to himself to be effective. That is why after Tree left he has been so successful. When Bid Dog is playing you have two guys in the post and Pat gets double teamed immediately and has a difficult time. I was glad to see that KD did not have them out there together last night.

With all due respect, in my opinion, this is not an issue with the players needing the paint for themselves. It is more of a reflection of the offensive scheme we play. In our offense, we play a unique version of the inside-out offense where we feed the ball to the paint and the other 4 players line up behind the 3-point line. If the big guy is doubled he will pass to the open shooter, otherwise, he will try to take his man to the basket. Therefore, two no 3-point shooting big guys cannot work together.

To get both big guys together on the floor, you will need to add some other plays to the play book. I dream of the day when Pat uses his wide shoulders to set a screen for a lightning fast slashing Antino Jackson. Or seeing either big dog or Pat sealing a defender under the basket for the other big guy to go to the basket.

[Dave in Green]

Thanks, Ada Zip. That's exactly the kind of analysis I was hoping to see. Having 4 players line up behind the 3-point line and the center either taking the shot or feeding one of them is pretty 1-dimensional. That's why I've been pushing the concept of some new thinking. The only sense I can make of having Pat and Big Dog on the floor together is if Big Dog is the center in the low post, 3 players line up behind the 3-point line and Pat is out of the paint but inside the 3-point line, i.e. high post. If he can knock down mid-range 2s, it adds a dimension to the Zips offense. I'm open to other ideas if anyone can give me a reasonable explanation as to why this is not worth pursuing.

[zippy5]

I give KD credit, I actually saw a few nice inbound plays. I think it was Jake came off a screen after some movement and had an open look at 3 off the inbounds play.

Also, I guess we'll wait here for the OP to offer his thoughts on KD's coaching after Pat's career night

[Dave in Green]

Pat and Big Dog having career nights in back-to-back games certainly reinforces how fortunate the Zips are to have two big and talented true centers. That's an advantage over every other team in the MAC that the Zips need to leverage to the max. Come March it could be the difference that helps punch the Zips' ticket back to the Big Dance.

[Sportsjunkie330]

I would love to see (have looked and cant find it) a shot chart for Pat in his career at UA. It would be interesting to see how many shots he's taken/made outside of the paint. (I know, KD's offense isn't built for the bigs to to that but I'd be interested to see the chart).

[Dave in Green]

It's nice to see that Coach Dambrot also believes that Pat's value goes beyond just hanging out in the paint. Last night he trusted Pat to take a pair of 3-point attempts when he'd previously only taken 1 in his first 2.5 seasons. The first attempt against OU just missed but the second was right on target. The made 3 came at a critical time early in the second half when the Kitties had reduced the Zips' 10-point lead down to just 2, and triggered a UA run stretching its lead back out to 11 before OU's late rally. I don't think the Zips really need another 3-point shooter, especially one who's so effective in the paint. But Pat's ability to hit from long range suggests his mid-range jumper could also be trusted as another weapon in the Zips' arsenal.