skip-zip Posted March 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 skip or anyone else who wants to talk about the good old days in an attempt to attack the current generation of students, please take a look at who has broken the student attendance record multiple times the past few seasons.newsflash- you guys didn't have better student attendance back when you had to walk up the hill 5 miles both ways to class.I think you've completely missed what's been pointed out.There were no massive marketing campaigns, bribes, points toward getting free merchandise....and God forbid.....flat out PAYING for students to attend. We went to basketball games because we wanted to go to basketball games. Nobody is attacking current students. I've posted here plenty of times simply trying to understand why they don't have a similar interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staton14 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Good point morris. The general consensus for this board when discussing university issues is that the problem is everybody else who doesn't make a living associated with the U. Football is holding the basketball team back. They have no money. They can fly in soccer players from all over the world, pay students ~15000 (assuming 800/game for 3 games) to come to games, refuse to play at any high profile team's place and take a pay day(and a chance to get a big win and generate excitement for the fanbase/state/country), but money is a problem. So much of a problem that is cost us a game at Penn St due to crappy travel plans.Lets set priorities straight and have accountability.They didn't reach 800 students in any of the three games, so students got nothing for the individual games. There were only about 200 students who attended all three games, so only about $1000 was paid out. And the promotion brought a number of students to the games that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I don't see what is wrong with it, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think you've completely missed what's been pointed out.There were no massive marketing campaigns, bribes, points toward getting free merchandise....and God forbid.....flat out PAYING for students to attend. We went to basketball games because we wanted to go to basketball games. Nobody is attacking current students. I've posted here plenty of times simply trying to understand why they don't have a similar interest.My apologies if I've missed the point. Coming from a recent graduate (less than a few years removed), you can try to put lipstick on the pig all you want with all the gimmicks, but the only thing that matters is making basketball or whatever sport relevant for people to come. I realize we aren't a "pig", we are actually a decent mid major program, but the point still stands.Please don't turn this into an OSU bash fest, but not many people grow up Akron fans believe it or not. They don't go to games just for the hell of it. You obviously have your core group of students that attend every game, you have your students that attend some games (OU, Toledo, Can't State), and then you have your students that attend zero games. What is an acceptable number of students you are ok with? You can complain all you want about it, but the fact is that more students are at least attending some games now than ever before. What games are they coming to? GAMES PEOPLE CARE ABOUT. You want people to come to the games for good? Stop losing to Miami and NIU, and go out and beat somebody that people and ESPN will talk about. Take the program to another level. You can only do so much with your conference opponents, but there are definitely chances in the OOC and the tournament(s). And no im not talking about taking our OOC schedule from an average RPI of 200 to 100. I'm talking about scheduling teams people have heard of and beating them. OSU, Cinci, Xavier, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, anyone. USC sucks, but beating them made us feel a little better about the loss of Tree right?I have a friend who transferred from Akron to OSU. She has zero interest in sports, but bought season tickets for OSU football because attending football games is the thing to do at OSU. Why is it the thing to do at OSU? People talk about them because they win games that people care about. How many corny ass promotions does OSU run to get buts in seats? Marketing? Winning markets itself. Students camp out for a week just to get tickets to a Duke/NC basketball game. Do students at Akron stay in and study while Duke students make time to go to basketball games? No.I just can't beat this point enough and its been had over and over which is why I may come off edgy. Take the program to another level and attendance will rise. Create a product people care about. The program looks topped out for the time being (even though I think the young talent level is higher than ever). Attendance isnt going to change permanently unless you give a reason to. Getting students to go to games to watch the team should be the goal. Not coming to a game to get $5.How to take the program to another level is a much better discussion really. Its really simple economics. If there is demand for your product people will buy it. Make your product in demand. OU had an average attendance increase of ~800 the year after they made the sweet 16 compared to the prior year, a 34% increase in ticket revenue, and a 53% increase in season ticket holders. I feel the potential is even greater in Northeast Ohio with no elite college basketball within a reasonable distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 They didn't reach 800 students in any of the three games, so students got nothing for the individual games. There were only about 200 students who attended all three games, so only about $1000 was paid out. And the promotion brought a number of students to the games that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I don't see what is wrong with it, honestly.I don't think there is anything wrong with it at face value. However, being that budgetary reasons have been blamed for many shortcomings of the program (ex. losing a game because of travel logistics), then I do have a problem with it. Its either A) budget isn't as big of a problem as some make it out to be or B)we aren't being smart with money. Winning is the ultimate goal here.I think this promotion is good as was the professional soccer player night. But should we really be running costly or potentially costly promotions when we cant even give our team reasonable travel from Charleston, SC to State College, PA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 My apologies if I've missed the point. Coming from a recent graduate (less than a few years removed), you can try to put lipstick on the pig all you want with all the gimmicks, but the only thing that matters is making basketball or whatever sport relevant for people to come. I realize we aren't a "pig", we are actually a decent mid major program, but the point still stands.Please don't turn this into an OSU bash fest, but not many people grow up Akron fans believe it or not. They don't go to games just for the hell of it. You obviously have your core group of students that attend every game, you have your students that attend some games (OU, Toledo, Can't State), and then you have your students that attend zero games. What is an acceptable number of students you are ok with? You can complain all you want about it, but the fact is that more students are at least attending some games now than ever before. What games are they coming to? GAMES PEOPLE CARE ABOUT. You want people to come to the games for good? Stop losing to Miami and NIU, and go out and beat somebody that people and ESPN will talk about. Take the program to another level. You can only do so much with your conference opponents, but there are definitely chances in the OOC and the tournament(s). And no im not talking about taking our OOC schedule from an average RPI of 200 to 100. I'm talking about scheduling teams people have heard of and beating them. OSU, Cinci, Xavier, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, anyone. USC sucks, but beating them made us feel a little better about the loss of Tree right?I have a friend who transferred from Akron to OSU. She has zero interest in sports, but bought season tickets for OSU football because attending football games is the thing to do at OSU. Why is it the thing to do at OSU? People talk about them because they win games that people care about. How many corny ass promotions does OSU run to get buts in seats? Marketing? Winning markets itself. Students camp out for a week just to get tickets to a Duke/NC basketball game. Do students at Akron stay in and study while Duke students make time to go to basketball games? No.I just can't beat this point enough and its been had over and over which is why I may come off edgy. Take the program to another level and attendance will rise. Create a product people care about. The program looks topped out for the time being (even though I think the young talent level is higher than ever). Attendance isnt going to change permanently unless you give a reason to. Getting students to go to games to watch the team should be the goal. Not coming to a game to get $5.How to take the program to another level is a much better discussion really. Its really simple economics. If there is demand for your product people will buy it. Make your product in demand. OU had an average attendance increase of ~800 the year after they made the sweet 16 compared to the prior year, a 34% increase in ticket revenue, and a 53% increase in season ticket holders. I feel the potential is even greater in Northeast Ohio with no elite college basketball within a reasonable distance.1) I'm not sure how far you'll get comparing Ohio State football and Duke Basketball to Zips Basketball.2) We all agree winning at a higher level (Tourney runs, Top 25, etc) is the best way to significantly increase attendance. That doesn't mean marketing should sit on the sidelines until that happens though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZIp Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 1) I'm not sure how far you'll get comparing Ohio State football and Duke Basketball to Zips Basketball.2) We all agree winning at a higher level (Tourney runs, Top 25, etc) is the best way to significantly increase attendance. That doesn't mean marketing should sit on the sidelines until that happens though.Who should I use as an example as to why students come to games? Some other perennial horrific mid-major football program or some other decent mid-major who has never won anything other than games against weak conference foes? Their attendance isn't going to be anything other than marginally better than ours. You can't show me a program who has never won anything or doesn't win anything and has great attendance.2) What it takes to win at a high level seems like it would be a much more valuable conversation to me. If you win at a high level attendance takes care of itself. Seems much more productive than talking about the next failed gimmick that attracts an extra 200 students to a single game and never come back when we lose.Skip wanted to know the root of the problem and I gave him it. Create a product the fans want and demand will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 skip or anyone else who wants to talk about the good old days in an attempt to attack the current generation of students, please take a look at who has broken the student attendance record multiple times the past few seasons.newsflash- you guys didn't have better student attendance back when you had to walk up the hill 5 miles both ways to class.+1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Who should I use as an example as to why students come to games? Some other perennial horrific mid-major football program or some other decent mid-major who has never won anything other than games against weak conference foes? Their attendance isn't going to be anything other than marginally better than ours. You can't show me a program who has never won anything or doesn't win anything and has great attendance.2) What it takes to win at a high level seems like it would be a much more valuable conversation to me. If you win at a high level attendance takes care of itself. Seems much more productive than talking about the next failed gimmick that attracts an extra 200 students to a single game and never come back when we lose.Skip wanted to know the root of the problem and I gave him it. Create a product the fans want and demand will be there. No, but another mid-major would make more sense than perennial Top-Five-in-the-Nation programs. Look, I don't think anyone is saying a bobblehead giveaway, dollar hot dog nights, or t-shirt giveaways is going to magically sell out the JAR. Every single person on this forum knows winning at a high level is the ultimate cure-all. My point is that, until that happens, it doesn't give the Marketing Department a pass to at least try to help the attendance issue. They haven't done a damn thing this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 They didn't reach 800 students in any of the three games, so students got nothing for the individual games. There were only about 200 students who attended all three games, so only about $1000 was paid out. And the promotion brought a number of students to the games that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I don't see what is wrong with it, honestly.+1.There were no massive marketing campaigns, bribes, points toward getting free merchandise....and God forbid.....flat out PAYING for students to attend. pay students ~15000 (assuming 800/game for 3 games) to Lets set priorities straight and have accountability.We've gone over this point before. If we pay $15,000 to get students to go to games...it's really nothing, and VERY worth it if it's executed with a fun game-day experience. Seeing as how students pay $800 a year to support athletics. That's around, oh, $17,000,000, or like 70% of the athletics budget...But $15,000 is a gross over-estimation anyways.Now Skip, I like you...but I'm going to challenge that. I'd argue that there are just as many students who want to be at the games today, that there were in your day. There's a good number of students at every game, they're spread out because there really isn't a student section. Without any actual numbers behind it I can't back that claim up...but student attendance records were destroyed by this generation, so apparently there are more going to games today than ever did "back-in-the-day". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 LZip I agree with a lot about what you say in the long post. I too am a recent alum, only a couple years removed, however I think there are small things UA could do that could increase student attendance. Though it would take engaging the student body instead of the passive nature they've had basically my entire experience with UA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staton14 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I don't think there is anything wrong with it at face value. However, being that budgetary reasons have been blamed for many shortcomings of the program (ex. losing a game because of travel logistics), then I do have a problem with it. Its either A) budget isn't as big of a problem as some make it out to be or B)we aren't being smart with money. Winning is the ultimate goal here.I think this promotion is good as was the professional soccer player night. But should we really be running costly or potentially costly promotions when we cant even give our team reasonable travel from Charleston, SC to State College, PA?Those are two different budgets. The team itself and the marketing department have different budgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsjunkie330 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 They didn't reach 800 students in any of the three games, so students got nothing for the individual games. There were only about 200 students who attended all three games, so only about $1000 was paid out. And the promotion brought a number of students to the games that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I don't see what is wrong with it, honestly.Lol, it was a horrible thing to do.....embarrassing actually. It's equivalent to high schools offering the students a free piece of pizza to come and root for their team. Look, I love the U of A, but lets be honest, no real college is running promotions like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Lol, it was a horrible thing to do.....embarrassing actually. It's equivalent to high schools offering the students a free piece of pizza to come and root for their team. Look, I love the U of A, but lets be honest, no real college is running promotions like this.Except it was something that had never been done before and gained national attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsjunkie330 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Except it was something that had never been done before and gained national attention.It gained national attention because it was a joke. Too bad it didn't gain LOCAL attention....and get the students there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I have some questions:Does anyone really know what actual student attendance was back in the '70s and '80s? Did they keep actual counts that we can reference? When they say a student attendance record was set nowadays, how far back are they measuring against?How much of the student fee in the '70s and '80s was devoted to athletics? Was it comparable to the current ~$800 in constant dollars? Was it roughly the same percentage of total student costs to attend? Did they even make that information public back in the good old days?Does anyone really know what kind of promotions are being used to attract students to athletic events at other schools? For example there are 347 D-I basketball programs scattered around the country, and I know of no source that tracks all their individual game promotions for students, let alone measure their effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 It gained national attention because it was a joke. Too bad it didn't gain LOCAL attention....and get the students there!That's your opinion. I disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsjunkie330 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 That's your opinion. I disagree.What, that it was a joke or it didn't work? Agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morris buttermaker Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think no one gets paid $5 unless there are 800 at a game?... As for the student fees to athletic dept....I am fairly certain that Akron is the something like the 3rd most subsidized athletic dept in D1.... when I have a chance, I'll find the source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-zip Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 One of the things that is confusing to me is the fact that the university and other businesses HAVE made an effort to bring students to the school by building REALLY NICE dormitories on campus. Does anyone know the numbers on how many students live on or right near campus today vs the 70s/80s? I have to imagine it is substantially higher today.Seriously, these kids have some really nice places to live…..pools, wireless internet, Starbucks, etc. I would think they would be having more fun and have more pride in their school than a kid that lived in an old beat up house or dated dormitory in the 70s/80s. Some of these are really nice!!!!http://www.uakron.edu/reslife/halls/all-halls.dothttp://www.depotatakron.com/?gclid=CMHQgOvsicQCFdgPgQodaJUAKAhttp://www.uakron.ocm101.com/property.html?id=431http://envisionapartments.com/?gclid=CMfo8ofticQCFRckgQodJlAA_w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 One of the things that is confusing to me is the fact that the university and other businesses HAVE made an effort to bring students to the school by building REALLY NICE dormitories on campus. Does anyone know the numbers on how many students live on or right near campus today vs the 70s/80s? I have to imagine it is substantially higher today.Seriously, these kids have some really nice places to live…..pools, wireless internet, Starbucks, etc. I would think they would be having more fun and have more pride in their school than a kid that lived in an old beat up house or dated dormitory in the 70s/80s. Some of these are really nice!!!!http://www.uakron.edu/reslife/halls/all-halls.dothttp://www.depotatakron.com/?gclid=CMHQgOvsicQCFdgPgQodaJUAKAhttp://www.uakron.ocm101.com/property.html?id=431http://envisionapartments.com/?gclid=CMfo8ofticQCFRckgQodJlAA_wI think these palatial dorms are part of the problem. Why would you want to leave the cozy confines of your room to venture out in the polar vortex to watch a basketball game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I think these palatial dorms are part of the problem. Why would you want to leave the cozy confines of your room to venture out in the polar vortex to watch a basketball game? You could be right. "Back in the Day" we packed 5 guys into a $500 a month house that was falling down. Maybe we were always looking for something to do. I've taken tours of some of those dorms and apartments. I don't know how a college students affords that style of living. Which also makes you seriously have to think......what is $5 worth to a college student who has $10,000 per semester in tuition and living expenses at today's U of A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-zip Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 You could be right. "Back in the Day" we packed 5 guys into a $500 a month house that was falling down. Maybe we were always looking for something to do. I've taken tours of some of those dorms and apartments. I don't know how a college students affords that style of living. I was talking to some friends the other day about our teenagers….A few of us had boys who had turned 16 last year and didn't seem real anxious to get their drivers licenses (which is OK by me). We joked about how each of us, when we were young, got our drivers licenses on THE DAY we turned 16 and how liberating it was. We scratched our heads trying to figure out what had changed with our boys.The answer we came up with was in our day if you wanted to do something - i.e.. hang out with buddies, play games, attend a game, etc…..you had to go somewhere.Today, with the internet, XBOX, PS4, Twitter, Facebook, video messaging, iPhones, iPads, etc……………you really don't have to go anywhere for entertainment - you can have food delivered to you and stay in the comfort of your home, dorm or wherever you might be. Kinda sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Cocooning: It's back and thanks to tech, it's bigger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K92 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I was talking to some friends the other day about our teenagers….A few of us had boys who had turned 16 last year and didn't seem real anxious to get their drivers licenses (which is OK by me). We joked about how each of us, when we were young, got our drivers licenses on THE DAY we turned 16 and how liberating it was. We scratched our heads trying to figure out what had changed with our boys.The answer we came up with was in our day if you wanted to do something - i.e.. hang out with buddies, play games, attend a game, etc…..you had to go somewhere.Today, with the internet, XBOX, PS4, Twitter, Facebook, video messaging, iPhones, iPads, etc……………you really don't have to go anywhere for entertainment - you can have food delivered to you and stay in the comfort of your home, dorm or wherever you might be. Kinda sad.I am hearing more and more about teenagers not pursuing their driver's license. Blew my mind the first time I heard about it because like you, I could not wait to get behind the wheel. But back then getting away via automobile was truly freedom. We were unreachable until we arrived back home. All kids are tethered to their parents via cell phone today. Not only that. Parents get notifications all the time from other busybody parents on where their kids are and what they're doing via text. The old days of getting away and anonymously sowing some oats are much harder to do today. Might as well stay home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I feel like I'm reading a bunch geezers right now (I really do mean the affectionately) But I've touched on this before...Students also work a lot more today, while in school, than they ever did before. Most of those beautiful dorms/off campus student housing are extremely over priced, and sit largely unfilled (out of campus ones have never been to full capacity). $700 for one person. You could be right. "Back in the Day" we packed 5 guys into a $500 a month house that was falling down. Maybe we were always looking for something to do. I've taken tours of some of those dorms and apartments. I don't know how a college students affords that style of living. Which also makes you seriously have to think......what is $5 worth to a college student who has $10,000 per semester in tuition and living expenses at today's U of A. They can't afford it, and this generation of college kids is waking up to it. Those off-campus student housing complexes charging $700 are going to be in a world of hurt. 401 Lofts, the Depot, 22 Exchange, Envision and now the new one...don't be fulled, they aren't full. They've never been full. Students take Furhill over any of those, because it's about $250 a month less. But you guys are right on one thing: "why leave all those comforts to brave the polar vortex to watch a basketball game...". BINGO! DING DING DING DING DING! Why go to a basketball game that doesn't even try to engage the students in anything meaningful. You've got to treat students as people, or you'll lose them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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