If the Zips have another losing season, should JD be fired?

[InTheZone]

Let's all remember that JD was not hired by Mack and is not Mack's guy, so this is not out of the realm of possibility if the Zips go into the tank. What are some thoughts?4 Seasons prior to JD2000: 6-5 (5-1) 2001: 4-7 (4-4) 2002: 4-8 (3-5) 2003: 7-5 (5-3) TOTAL: 21-25 (17-13)JD's First 4 Seasons2004: 6-5 (6-2) 2005: 7-6 (5-3) 2006: 5-7 (3-5)2007: 3-4 (2-2)TOTAL: 21-22 (16-12)Excuse me if I'm not impressed. It may anger some of you to hear this.... but we've really seen no improvement whatsoever from Lee Owens to JD Brookhart.... and JD Brookhart has a helluva lot more to pitch Akron with to recruits than ole Lee O ever did. Not saying Lee O was the greatest coach in the history of College Football.... but if you're objective neither is JD Brookhart. I say give him one more year to make some progress after this season and if not then.... BUH-BYE.

[RACER]

i am not sure of his contract situation.at this point there is alott of football to be played and any decision needs to wait until the end of the season.i think no matter what happens this year you give him one more year to turn things around.after five years if he cannot get things done then something needs to change.i do not think most poster are unreasonable.i think we are just sick of one decent season of 7-5 in ten years followed by a bunch of 5-7,4-8 seasons with owens.

[Buckzip]

Let's all remember that JD was not hired by Mack and is not Mack's guy, so this is not out of the realm of possibility if the Zips go into the tank. What are some thoughts?4 Seasons prior to JD2000: 6-5 (5-1) 2001: 4-7 (4-4) 2002: 4-8 (3-5) 2003: 7-5 (5-3) TOTAL: 21-25 (17-13)JD's First 4 Seasons2004: 6-5 (6-2) 2005: 7-6 (5-3) 2006: 5-7 (3-5)2007: 3-4 (2-2)TOTAL: 21-22 (16-12)Excuse me if I'm not impressed. It may anger some of you to hear this.... but we've really seen no improvement whatsoever from Lee Owens to JD Brookhart.... and JD Brookhart has a helluva lot more to pitch Akron with to recruits than ole Lee O ever did. Not saying Lee O was the greatest coach in the history of College Football.... but if you're objective neither is JD Brookhart. I say give him one more year to make some progress after this season and if not then.... BUH-BYE.

No, Let him at least work through hi contract before making that decision.

[Z-P]

Couple points to check out..............I think the MAC competition was at a higher level during the final 5 years of the prior regime.I also seem to remember, that with the exception of the few 1AA oponents we had to schedule to fill our scheduling holes, the OOC competiton was a bit stronger (with the exception of this season)..............These are not researched, but just instinctual.............Having said that however, I also feel Coach B is doing a better overall job than the prior regime did at the end of it's run. The prior head coach was having one hell of a tough time attracting quality assistants......................probably because the entire football nation knew he was at the end of his leash. This could account for some of the problems..............not all.................but some.I really don't like comparing the two regimes. The overall environments are vastly different (competition level in MAC, facilities, AD just to mention a few) but the expectations are much higher these days due to our accidental championship year.Just my ever increasingly less informed take.Go Zips, Go Tribe, Go Browns..............what a nice year to be a Cleveland fan!

[johnnyzip84]

The timing with the opening of the new stadium complicates the issue. If, for instance, the Zips go 2-3 for the rest of this season to finsh 5-7, I think there might be some pressure to have a winning season in 2008. I say this because I don't know if the administration would be too fond of opening Infocision on the heals of three straight losing seasons under the same HC. I realize that if they were to fire him after this year, they could still be faced with opening the stadium on the heals of 3 straight losing seasons regardless, but they'd have the "new coach, give him time" angle to play. I'm not convinced that JD's contract length will be a huge factor in this decision. In the big picture, certain attendance figures for the new stadium are no doubt being counted on to pay off any construction loans. My guess is this is much more significant than the money that would be required to buy out the remainder of JD's contract. Don't get me wrong. I don't think that the play of the Zips on the field warrants this discussion, just yet. I'm just pointing out that monetary issues may play a bigger role.

[scottditzen]

No. I believe JD will finally make the moves to bring the offense in the right direction.....I hope.

[Dr Z]

I really don't like comparing the two regimes.

Me either!!!! I skip right over any poster doing so. How many years before this stops here?The simple answer to the posted question is "no"A better question would be, what can JD do to get fired in the next three years,because economically nothing he does in the next two will get him fired.The haters should root for him to succeed and move on, that is the only way he is leaving soon.This has got to be my last comment on this subject for a month. I'm done.

[skip-zip]

Ok...let me step in here.....Even the couple of winning seasons we had under the LO era were unimpressive. One of them showed us posting 7 wins against teams with somewhere between 10-15 COMBINED wins between them. We never made any progress against the top teams in the MAC under LO, and he had an overall record of somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 games under .500. JD would have to literally fall apart as a coach to ever even remotely approach that mark. Beyond that, LO never got the BIG wins we needed to get us anywhere. In the JD era, we've already won a game against a BCS team on the road, won a MAC title, and beat a good Marshall team to take us to a season finale against Miami for a chance to win the MAC East on another occassion. Last year was a downer. And this year is a little shaky right now. But we've made tremendous progress as a program under JD. Many schools would LOVE to be .500 overall after 3-1/2 years of a rebuilding process. Z-P....Your comment about the teams in the MAC East being better back then? I totally disagree. Marshall was certainly very strong back then, but LO routinely got his MAC wins every year against the teams that were perennially winning 0-2 games per season, like Can't, Buffalo, and Ohio. The MAC East is much stronger these days. In fact, look at the latest MAC power rankings. The bottom 3 teams are all from the MAC West. There's no easy wins in our division right now, and that was certainly not the case back then.

[Z-P]

As Doc said, I really don't want to prolong this but a couple things need to be corrected for the record.............#1. The night of the "Leftwitch Game" Marshall was #19 and #21 in two polls if my memory is correct.#2. Butchies crew went into BG and beat Urban Meyers bunch at home.#3. In those days there was no significance of East Record/West Record and Miami was a bitch in addition to Marshall.#4. Jim Grobe didn't get a promotion to 1AA like our guy did for no reasonAlso, I really wasn't talking about where he got his wins, it was just a comment that (and it's an opinion) the MAC was overall much stronger from 97 to 05 than it is today for some reason.No more on comparisons...............pleeeeeeeeeeeze.

[Captain Kangaroo]

#2. Butchies crew went into BG and beat Urban Meyers bunch at home.

2001 - Urban Wins 16-112002 - Zips and BG Didn't Meet

[Z-P]

My bad..............Gary Blackney in 2000 and man was that a cold day.

[ZipGrad93]

Ok...let me step in here.....Even the couple of winning seasons we had under the LO era were unimpressive. One of them showed us posting 7 wins against teams with somewhere between 10-15 COMBINED wins between them. We never made any progress against the top teams in the MAC under LO, and he had an overall record of somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 games under .500. JD would have to literally fall apart as a coach to ever even remotely approach that mark. Beyond that, LO never got the BIG wins we needed to get us anywhere. In the JD era, we've already won a game against a BCS team on the road, won a MAC title, and beat a good Marshall team to take us to a season finale against Miami for a chance to win the MAC East on another occassion. Last year was a downer. And this year is a little shaky right now. But we've made tremendous progress as a program under JD. Many schools would LOVE to be .500 overall after 3-1/2 years of a rebuilding process. Z-P....Your comment about the teams in the MAC East being better back then? I totally disagree. Marshall was certainly very strong back then, but LO routinely got his MAC wins every year against the teams that were perennially winning 0-2 games per season, like Can't, Buffalo, and Ohio. The MAC East is much stronger these days. In fact, look at the latest MAC power rankings. The bottom 3 teams are all from the MAC West. There's no easy wins in our division right now, and that was certainly not the case back then.

Not sure if we're thinking of the same Marshall game, but the "Leftwich" game was in 2002, under Coach Owens. ZipGrad93

[skip-zip]

I'll clarify. I'm talking about the Marshall game that we won during Charlie Frye's senior year. The game that was on ESPN. It's a win that catapulted us to a showdown with Miami for the MAC East title during JD's first year. For you historians, the game a few years earlier where Leftwich broke his leg is actually shown in the movie "We Are Marshall". Well, at least a small clip of it.

[roodi]

Unless the team absolutley implodes or Brookhart is caught in the janitor's closet with a cheerleader, he doesn't get the axe this year for a losing season. However, if next year is not a clear success, i.e. 8 or more wins, then he has to go. I'm already very unsure about his ability to recruit and coach. He has some abilities, but it seems that Akron has become his testing grounds. He was inexperienced when he came form Pitt and remains inexperienced. Four years to work the bugs out is enough.He didn't inherit a program on its knees. It was slightly less than mediocre to mediocre and it has remained on this level. Next year is time to make a move: winning season, MAC East Championship...a bowl of some kind.

[GP1]

I saw this on TV last night. Greg Schiano's record at Rutgers:2001: 2-92002: 1-112003: 5-72004: 4-7 I wonder how many people were calling for his head after this year? JD is in his fourth year right now.2005: 7-4 Add a bowl loss to Arizona State 7-52006: 10-2 Add a bowl win against Kansas State 11-2The first four years his record was 12-34.The MAC is at exactly the same competition level it was prior to the Pennington-Limpwich-Roethlisberger years at Marshall and Miami. Take out those two teams during those years and the league is at the almost the exact same level of well below average they were back then.I know that some on the board don't like to hear it, but the number of "suburban" athletes Owens was bringing to Akron killed the program. He couldn't get talent because the high school coaches he hired (he was one also) didn't know what to look for. Please save us the Championship being won with Owens players also. That game was won with Luke Getsy and Brett Biggs (two JD recruits). He won in spite of the Owens players, not because of them.JD wil be fine, some of you guys just have to stop going Browns fans all the time.I've said this before on the board. If JD has a losing season after this season, he gets another year. If they have another losing season next, he has to go.

[GP1]

the expectations are much higher these days due to our accidental championship year.

What was accidental about it? You Cleveland fans have so much trouble getting your hands around success. Instead of pride, you feel guilt. You're better than this Z-P.

[akronad]

I am not a Lee Owens fan, but let's get all the facts out there. Don't forget, he spent 3 years at OSU. Also, he had 11 years of experience as a hs head football coach, which is more tahn JD. However, I wouldn't put of lot of stock into that, when you include Gerry Faust, who had more than enough hs experience.

[RACER]

GP i agree with your last comments.if we have a losing season this year then jd is on the hot seat.if 2008 is below .500 i don't think he will make it to 2009.i will wait until the season is over.as for the state of the programteams like temple,and buffalo are now compareable to the zips.you cannot tell me that when jd took over those programs were better than us.somehow there coaches are getting it done so jd has no excuses.as for the mac it may be balanced, but the conference is terrible.when the best team in the mac (cmu gets drilled by at home by a i-aa team that says it all.)

[Lee Adams]

'funny' how his best 2 seasons were basically with Lee Owen's players...not a Lee Owens fan but its not a coincidence..best addition Brookhart made was Brett Biggs..HE was the heart of the 2005 team...but the basis of the team on both sides was there before Brookhart...we saw last year what Getsy was REALLY about..

[GP1]

best addition Brookhart made was Brett Biggs.

Biggs was the best player to play for Brookhart, and that includes Blackburn and Frye. He's probably the best player since Dwight Smith....although I think Smith was better. Had Biggs had any size whatsoever, he would be a sure NFL player.

[Captain Kangaroo]

'funny' how his best 2 seasons were basically with Lee Owen's players...not a Lee Owens fan but its not a coincidence..

He's had 3 full seasons at Akron. Not 10. Odds are pretty high that two of his best seasons would be with Lee Owens-recruited players. You're only allowed to recruit 20-or-so kids in a class. Statistically, how could it be otherwise?Urban Meyer had his best/only two seasons with Blackney's recruits. Does that mean Blackney was great, or that Meyer got more out of the players than Blackney ever could?Make that statement after 5 or 6 seasons and it would have some merit. To make it after 3 is just silly.

[Lee Adams]

sometimes its good to be silly........keeps things in perspective...nobody should be talking about firing anybody until after the season is over...if they win 6 thats 1 better than last year...but if they start circling the drain this year the AD has to make a call...do Brookhart and his staff get to hang around for the new stadium or do you dangle that in front of a new coach hoping to get someone with experience in here when it opens...

[Z-P]

I saw this on TV last night. Greg Schiano's record at Rutgers:2001: 2-92002: 1-112003: 5-72004: 4-7 I wonder how many people were calling for his head after this year? JD is in his fourth year right now.2005: 7-4 Add a bowl loss to Arizona State 7-52006: 10-2 Add a bowl win against Kansas State 11-2The first four years his record was 12-34.The MAC is at exactly the same competition level it was prior to the Pennington-Limpwich-Roethlisberger years at Marshall and Miami. Take out those two teams during those years and the league is at the almost the exact same level of well below average they were back then.I know that some on the board don't like to hear it, but the number of "suburban" athletes Owens was bringing to Akron killed the program. He couldn't get talent because the high school coaches he hired (he was one also) didn't know what to look for. Please save us the Championship being won with Owens players also. That game was won with Luke Getsy and Brett Biggs (two JD recruits). He won in spite of the Owens players, not because of them.JD wil be fine, some of you guys just have to stop going Browns fans all the time.I've said this before on the board. If JD has a losing season after this season, he gets another year. If they have another losing season next, he has to go.

[Z-P]

Oops...................Got trigger happy on my copy and paste, sorry guys................What I was trying to say was...........................#1, GP, that statement qualifing only Bobby Pruits teams and UM as worthy, was disrespectful (notice I said disrespectful not "diss") of Northern Illinois Univesity's great teams, Toledo's geat teams and earlier on, some damn fine Western Michigan squads.#2. G..................you add some terrific content to the board, but when you come with this crap "suburban players" why don't you come out and say what you mean? I mean be a man and let it go. We all know code, bring it................nmCrazy football season, keep choppin the wood JD.................crapGo Zips

[GP1]

#2. G..................you add some terrific content to the board, but when you come with this crap "suburban players" why don't you come out and say what you mean? I mean be a man and let it go. We all know code, bring it................

Well, here it comes. What I mean is that they are too slow and soft.....What do you think I mean?