Balsy

EMU and Miami are two teams that have vastly improved. They both seem to be where the Zips were in 2013.

Focus of the Zips should be to BEAT BGSU, get the monkey of Bowl eligibility and haven't beaten BGSU in forever off the shoulder, regroup in the bye-week.

Oh lord...hopefully he didn't embarrass himself.

Sans the Attendance argument we have every year in regards to basketball. A 4 star + recruit is RARELY to NEVER going to consider a MAC team, especially when you're getting Big-10, Pac-12 or SEC offers. If that's how you measured success, we'd be on coach 5 post iCoach. Isn't it about both? Ohio State and other programs show all the time you can have a million talented players, but not be the best if you don't have a good scheme, and are putting those players in a position to win. Akron seems to have good coaches. Who put the players in more winnable situations than losing ones. The problem is they just don't have enough of those players with the experience/knowledge. I'm not ready to blow it up.

If the Zips fired Bowden after this season, they'd lose this alumni's support. I love how the sky is always falling on ZN.O.

Totally agree, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because of $$. P5 vs P5 is going to draw more than G5 vs P5...or at least that's the logic that would be used to not do it.

Why? It was a good point...even though it's off topic and has derailed the conversation about BowdenBall.

I'd like to remind everyone, that this conversation thread is about BOWDEN's success (or lack there of) at Akron. Not attendance. Leave all attendance speak to the attendance thread? Unless it's being used to directly talk about the success or lack of success of Bowden and Co.

I don't agree with that arbitrary criterion. I don't really buy the Sagarin rating system either as an effective way of measuring success, as he doesn't fully report his methodology (as almost all ranking systems don't do), and it's more used by gamblers than those looking to analyze a season. I think to determine a win "good" and a loss "bad" you would need to take into consideration (1) where the team was last year compared to this year, (2) how the win or loss played out (competitive, blowout etc) and (3) it's meaning to the program, and season, in general. This third criterion would be more difficult to achieve for programs that are "good". Ohio State wouldn't consider a win over Purdue "good" because the Win has little impact on the rest of the season. A loss to Purdue WOULD be considered a "bad" loss because it would have a direct impact on the rest of the season. Call me biased, but I think this is a better measuring stick for success: In that respect the "Good" and "Bad" losses would look something like this: 2012: No good Wins Or Bad losses. The Zips didn't regress or progress. Most games were competitive. Both losses to teams as bad as they were, were within one score, which is an upgrade to the losses in previous years. 2013: Good Wins: Miami (first road game in years), Kent (regained wagonwheel, rivalry 2nd home win in years), Toledo. Bad losses: None. 2014: Good Wins: Pitt (first group of 5 team) UMass (First winning record at Infocision Stadium History) Bad Losses: Ohio (lost first place MAC East), Buffalo (Took Zips out of realistic contention for Bowl game), Kent (Rivalry Loss, out of official contention for Bowl Game) 2015: Good Wins: Lousiana-Lafayette (First 2-2 record in OCC in years), Kent (Rivalry Game, Team Victory, Official Bowl Elligibility), Utah State (first bowl win ever) Bad Losses: BGSU (officially out of MAC East contention) 2016: Marshall (record scoring on the road), Kent (rivalry), Bad Losses: Buffalo (as it stands currently). By my arbitrary measuring stick it's Good Wins: 10 Bad Losses: 4 Yes I'm a homer, and Yes I'm biased. But I think there's more to looking at W/L than just an arbitrary rating system. Almost all of us agree that 2012 is a pass for Bowden, and 13, 15 were successful years, with 14 being a let down. 16 (so far) is a successful season, the last 3 games will determine if it truly is "good" or "bad". And as the Bowden years go on, it'll be harder to get "good" wins...as it should.

These are a couple of good posts. So what should be our ideal goal then? I propose it's winning seasons and program stability. Ohio University has looked like this with Frank Solich as the head coach: 2005 4-7 2006 9-5 2007 6-6 2008 4-8 2009 9-5 2010 8-5 2011 10-4 2012 9-4 2013 7-6 2014 6-6 2015 8-5 2016 6-3 As much as I despise OU, it's because of their stability and relative success that I do. It's jealousy. I think having a program stable like OU should be the goal, with getting local kids to buy into the program. I don't believe we're going to drastically improve attendance, but there will be some who attend games to watch the local games who weren't there before. Improve the culture through stability, improve the culture and game day experience to attract young alumni post-graduation. I do feel that the Zips and Bowden ARE changing the culture. The question is how fast, and how fast do they need to be?

We're in contention for the MAC Championship THIS season...stop selling it out.

We still have a crack at the championship. Win out and we're in.

I believe the Zips show up and win this one. Decent weather, and a championship fever from Cleveland will carry over into the Zips. It'll look ugly in the first half, but the Zips will adjust in the second half and come back to win. Everyone will be back on board with the Zips.

Love you Keener (and I'm not being sarcastic) missed you posting. I almost came over and introduced myself during one of the pregames in Lot9, but missed the opportunity because I was pulled away to meet the (now) president. I do think it's important to have a real discussion on this issue, as opposed to the normal feces throwing shout matches that go on here. I'm in the Bowden Camp myself, so I will do my best to present a case as to why we're better off with Bowden than a (?). Note I'm coming from the background of not being exposed to the history of Zips football. My fandom is marred with a lackluster final season of Burkhart, and two seasons of iCoach. First I want to outline the history of Zips football since the 2005 MAC Championship, the last time it looked like we were on the cusp of something special in Akron football (to the newer fan of Zips football of course). 2005 7-6 (5-3) *MAC Championship* and got there by being tied with other teams, and having the advantage of the tie breaker. 2006 5-7 (3-5) 2007 4-8 (3-5) 2008 5-7 (3-5) 2009 3-9 (2-6) 2010 1-11 (1-7) Lost to an FCS team. 2011 1-11 (0-8) 2012 1-11 (0-8) 2013 5-7 (4-4) 2014 5-7 (3-5) 2015 8-5 (5-3) First D-1 Bowl Win Ever, First Bowl appearance in a Decade 2016 5-4 (3-2) Still in contention, and in control of their own destiny for MAC Championship BowdenBall Achievements: 2012 Most Yards passing in Akron History, uptempo offense, was in most games unlike the previous 2 years. 2013 First Road win in Years. More than 1 win at home in years. Beat a better Bowl Bound team, Toledo. Competed in most games. Regained the Wagon Wheel. 2014 First P5 victory in years (Pittsburgh). 2015 First Bowl appearance in a Decade, First D-1 Bowl Win ever, First winning record in a Decade. 2016 Broke Kent winning streak at home. (TBD) IMHO the most disappointing year of BowdenBall was 2014, when we should have gone bowling. That year we were marred with lackluster QB play from a Veteran who became injured and a young inexperienced QB. Had we given up on the team, which a lost of people did starting off the 2015 year in similar fashion as to how the 2014 season played out, would we have seen the 7-5 season with a Bowl win the following season? Now in 2016 it seems that a largely young and inexperienced team has become marred with injuries, yet still finds itself at 5-4, with complete control of whether or not they go to Detroit or not. I'm personally in the Camp now that we've got to complete the little things FIRST (Bowl game appearance, Bowl game win, MAC Championship game) BEFORE we realistically think about being a WMU type team. I think it is pretty clear that Bowden is trying to build a progrum, not a resume. How many MAC teams have we seen get a coach, who leads them to quick success, bolts, and then the program falls apart? I'd trade slow progress into creating a year-in-year-out winning record, than a one hit wonder. Objectively, though, I have to agree with you. As it stands currently, looking at the Sagarin scores we have regressed (where as each other season we improved slightly over the previous year), but the season isn't finished yet. If you had measured the Sagarin scores prior to beating Utah State, it might have looked as if the season wasn't all that good. Heck, if you had measured before the final 3 games of the regular season last year, it would have looked like we had regressed and not improved. Even in a 1-11 season, we began (as a fan base) to believe that we could win games. Now we almost expect to every week. That's good. That means our culture is turning around, that means we're making progress IMO. I'm the eteranl optimist though.

I was having difficulty convincing my girlfriend that a Zips football game was a worthy place to spend a Wednesday evening...thanks Zips athletics for winning her over.

Go WMU. Get more $$ for the conference.

I believe the Zips bounce back after a rough game. Last time the Zips beat Toledo they were major underdogs at home, and the Zips will pull it out again. It won't be pretty, but the Zips bounce back. Akron 35 Toledo 31

I'm personally glad that this game is at home. The Zips need to find a way to win this game. They have two home games vs. Toledo and BGSU. Ohio has already beaten both of them. We essentially need to win out to get into the MAC C game, and it starts with beating Toledo. The ZIPS and the BOBKITTENS are still in control if they're own destiny.

Current Standings: East Ohio 6-3 (4-1) Akron 5-4 (3-4) Miami 2-6 (2-2) Buffalo 2-6 (1-3) Kent 2-6 (1-3) BG 1-7 (0-4) West Western Michigan 8-0 (4-0) Toledo 6-2 (3-1) Central Michigan 5-3 (2-2) Eastern Michigan 5-3 (2-2) Northern Illinois 2-6 (2-2) Ball State 4-4 (1-3) Toledo may have played itself out of contention by losing to the Bobcats last night. The Zips also look to have played themselves out of a MAC Championship appearance as well. The Zips however still have a chance to control their own destiny in the East. If the Zips win out they're in the MAC Championship game without a doubt. Akron's Remaining schedule: Toledo Bowling Green Ohio Ohio's Remaining Schedule: Buffalo Central Michigan Akron Looking at face value you'd say that both teams have one cupcake and one decent team before meeting each other, Ohio with the slight edge because Central Michigan isn't quite Toledo. But Ohio showed that Toledo can be beat, and no better game would we want to have Warren Ball back for...but that's another conversation. Conversely, Buffalo showed that they're not going to just roll over and die.

First Bowl game win in school history. Credit is due, where credit is due. I wanna win badly too...this was an embarrassing loss.

Game is blacked out in our area on ESPN3? WTF is even the point of having freaking ESPN3 then? What an absolute joke...

I factored that in when I did my calculation. He could out do the W/L percentage and the overall TDs for a career. It's the Yards he's going to struggle to overcome because Frye got 11,049 in 4 years, and was he was played as the starter in the vast majority of those games. Woodson's first year he only played a handful of games, he didn't start all of his games his sophomore or now junior year. He currently has around 4,500 career yards. In order to beat Frye's career yards he would have had to average somewhere around 300 yards per game (including MAC Championship game and Bowls) to beat it, without missing 3 games. Frye's best season passing was 3,549 yards, 22TDs. Dalton beat the TDs with 25 in 2012, came short in yardage.

Not just MAC Refs...but MAC announcers suck too.

This conversation really derailed...bringing it back to the Woodson vs. Frye discussion. This was something I was going to post about back before the Kent game because the statistics of throwing for like 4TDs a game and 300+ yards per game were putting Woodson in a place where he could beat out Frye's records. Since he missed three games, though, this season due to his shoulder injury...he probably won't beat Frye's career stats.

Complete morons.