Zeke is Trying to Adjust to College Basketball

[Dave in Green]

..... Why are Zips fans so afraid of success? Everyone wants to pitter-patter around having high expectations for Zeke...of winning an NCAA tourney game? I don't get it. People SHOULD have high expectations for this team. The SHOULD have high expectations for the highest rated HS recruit ever to play for a MAC school. Side note: It absolutely amazes me how just about every Zips fans has gone from giddy over Zeke, to "I don't expect anything from him the first season." A couple Elton Alexander "buzz kill" quotes and everyone busts out their best let-down coping mechanisms? That's the power of the media. .....

I don't think I'm the only one on these boards who has been cautiously optimistic about both Zeke and this season's team both before and after all the media stories. I think there are quite a few of us who try to keep our expectations consistently realistic through the good times and bad.Last year's team was somewhat of a disappointment during the regular season, but really rose to the occasion in the MAC tournament and the first 75% of the NCAA tournament game against Gonzaga. After living through decades of sports disappointments, both here and in other areas of the country, I've really come to appreciate the concept of not having unrealistic expectations. It makes life a lot more pleasant when a team rewards cautious optimism with even better than expected results than when a team fails to live up to unrealistic expectations.Bottom line for me is that I do believe this year's Zips have the potential to be better than last year's team. But that will require a lot of things to go right. Zeke's sprained ankle slowing his early development and Steward's scheduled compartment syndrome procedure on his other leg are early reminders of things that can and do go wrong for sports teams throughout the course of a season.

[ZachTheZip]

I'm tired of being "cautiously optimistic" and of always waiting for some inevitable disappointment. That's what sad-sack Clevelanders do every freaking year, and I'm sick or hearing about it.We should have high expectations for the team, and we shouldn't try to wrap it in cautious optimism. I will be disappointed if this team does anything less than win the MAC, win at least one NCAA tournament game, and have at least 24 wins. There's no reason not to do any of those things. This team should be drastically improved. They have experience playing in the tournament, they are no longer relying on a bunch of freshmen to come through in the clutch. Humpty, Nikola, and McClanahan won't make freshman mistakes. Only Zeke will make them, and they won't be as numerous coming from an All-American player as they were coming from those guys.Our greatest weakness last season was inexperience. We have eliminated that while keeping all of our greatest strengths except the heart shown by Linhart, and I think he made his mark on the underclassmen so that they will play with the same heart.

[GP1]

Don't get me wrong, if Zeke can come in here and give us 20 minutes a game with 8-12 points and 6-8 rebounds and 2-4 blocks, or even 15 minutes with around 6 points and 5 rebounds and a couple blocks I'm going to be ecstatic. I just don't think it is an absolute necessity for our program to progress. Its gravy.

Get ready to be ecstatic. The kid is a HS All-American. At a minimum, he should produce those numbers next year.It's not enough to just count on an extra year of maturity to move the team forward. I also don't understand why winning an NCAA game is the definition of moving forward. IMHO, what a team does during the regular season better defines how a team is progressing than one week at the end of the year. BB is a strange game where a really good team can have one bad day and lose a conference tournament game....that doesn't really define a team. I'd take going undefeated in the MAC as a strong step forward. Going undefeated or only 1 or 2 MAC loses would be a sign of a consistently good team. That's the step forward I'm looking for.

Going beyond the 1st round in the NCAA tourney is absolutely HUGE. I don't get how anyone can blow that off as no big deal?Say the Zips make it to Round #2. The Zips are plastered all over the local and national media. They play on CBS, not ESPNU. The local bars are packed with Akron fans getting excited about their team. Dambrot no longer needs to talk about the potential his team has when he recruits against upper-echelon programs...he can point to himself actually cutting down a net after beating a Wake Forest.Keith Dambrot's Zips have been to the NCAA tourney. Now it is time to win a game (or two).Regarding going undefeated in the MAC -- Sure, that would be HUGE. However, if the Zips were to run the table in the MAC, then bow out in round #1 of the NCAA tourney, it would then be a HUGE letdown. Running the table in the MAC probably equates to no worse than a #11 tourney seed. That's a game an undefeated MAC team should win.Why are Zips fans so afraid of success? Everyone wants to pitter-patter around having high expectations for Zeke...of winning an NCAA tourney game? I don't get it. People SHOULD have high expectations for this team. The SHOULD have high expectations for the highest rated HS recruit ever to play for a MAC school. Side note: It absolutely amazes me how just about every Zips fans has gone from giddy over Zeke, to "I don't expect anything from him the first season." A couple Elton Alexander "buzz kill" quotes and everyone busts out their best let-down coping mechanisms? That's the power of the media.Great MAC teams win NCAA tourney games. Miami has won. Western Michigan has won. K.e.n.t. has won. Central Michigan has won. Throw in Cleveland State too.Zips fans need to appreciate winning the MAC. It's damn difficult to do. But the top mid-majors don't stop at winning their conference. They want more. I want more. Keith Dambrot and the Zips are capable of more. Thus I expect more in 2010.

I don't think anyone would disagree that winning an NCAA game would be huge. Getting blown out would also be a let down. My point is there are a lot of ways to look at how the program is progressing (actually, I hate the word progressing because it makes me look like a "grower". I wold be better to say look at the current state of the Zips.). Going undefeated in the MAC woudl be a great way to measure the current state of the program.I also agree that the hedging of Zeke bets is crazy. This kid needs to be on the floor in Game 1 jumping center to start the game. The Zips only get Zeke for four years. He has to be taken advantage of while he wears a Zips uniform. Not playing him is like not running your fastest car in a race because it might get a dent in it. Let's fire up Zeke's motor and see what he can do.Lastly, I think the MAC has changed quite a bit in the past 4-5 years. By changed, I mean it has gotten worse.....a lot worse. Expectations need to start with the fact that we are in a really bad league. All I want right now is for this team to dominate the league this season and win the MAC. Those are the things the Zips can control. NCAA seeding is out of the control of the Zips. The NCAA likes to send MAC teams out west for an early round feast for a higher seeded team. I expect the Zips to dominate the MAC...I want a win in the NCAA tournament, but I don't expect it and I think a domination of the MAC would not be destroyed by losing in the first round.

[GP1]

Zeke's sprained ankle slowing his early development and Steward's scheduled compartment syndrome procedure on his other leg are early reminders of things that can and do go wrong for sports teams throughout the course of a season.

How much development does he really need to compete against the centers in the MAC? Let's be serious, he could hop around on one leg and be better than half the MAC centers.

[Zip Watcher]

2 good posts GP1.Go Zips! :champs:

[Dr Z]

Zeke's sprained ankle slowing his early development and Steward's scheduled compartment syndrome procedure on his other leg are early reminders of things that can and do go wrong for sports teams throughout the course of a season.

How much development does he really need to compete against the centers in the MAC? Let's be serious, he could hop around on one leg and be better than half the MAC centers.

If Brian Hipsher can play in the MAC, surely Zeke can start as a frosh!?!

[Captain Kangaroo]

All I want right now is for this team to dominate the league this season and win the MAC. Those are the things the Zips can control. NCAA seeding is out of the control of the Zips. The NCAA likes to send MAC teams out west for an early round feast for a higher seeded team. I expect the Zips to dominate the MAC...I want a win in the NCAA tournament, but I don't expect it and I think a domination of the MAC would not be destroyed by losing in the first round.

I don't buy it. Not in the least.K.e.n.t. State dominated the MAC for almost a decade. They also won multiple NCAA tourney games. Cleveland State won one last season. Butler...Drake...Western K.e.n.t.ucky...all these guys are focused on winning their conference and winning games in the NCAA tourney. Who in the hell would know who Winthrop was if they didn't win a tourney game? No one. How about Creighton? The list is endless.Dominate mid-major teams win NCAA tourney games. That is a major goal of all quality mid-major programs. If the Zips win the MAC again, then lose in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney, it is no better than last year.The NCAA sent the Zips out to the west coast because they didn't earn the right to get a better location or seed. Ditto Miami and K.e.n.t. in previous seasons. Those teams, like last season's Zips, were worthy of being seeded in the teens. It is time to earn a better seed.The low-aimer guy with the "let's just be happy being the tallest midget in the MAC" attitude will always irk me. Dambrot has openly said he wants to be a top 25 team. He has openly stated that he has a "window of success" within the upcoming Zeke 4 seasons where he can get an new arena off the ground, and bust into the top 25.But...low-aimer fan will be uber-satisfied with being the tallest midget in the MAC.I believe in Dambrot. I agree with Dambrot. I disagree with those who've already draft their excuses why we lost a future 2010 NCAA tourney game because it makes them cope better.

[Quickzips]

There is no doubt that winning game(s) in the tournament has to be the goal over the next couple of years. Going undefeated in the MAC would be nice and all, and would certainly give us the argument for a better seeding in the tournament and everything, but it does absolutely nothing for our national reputation. Everyone in the MAC right now knows who we are. They know we are good and that we will continue to be good year in and year out if for no other reason than great coaching. The next step is to build that national reputation so that getting recruits like Zeke stops becoming an outlier and starts becoming the norm. What do you think is going to do that more? Do you think a recruit is going to be more impressed if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us win all of our conference games in the MAC this year?" or if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us beat <insert overrated big conference team> in the Big Dance and make that Sweet 16 run this year?" It's a no brainer. You've got to make that run in the NCAA's to take the next step. Now that isn't to say that the two are mutually exclusive. Dominating the MAC is the only way to really ensure that we will even be in the tournament after all and we need to really take it to the rest of these teams in order to make an argument for higher seeding. But at the end of the day all that says is that we are still as good as we've been the last couple years. Winning in the NCAA's. That says were moving forward, get out of our way.

[Dave in Green]

Hot topic, as it rightfully should be for all of us who love Zips basketball. I wonder if anyone on here really disagrees with KD's goals? If Zeke continues to develop in college as he did in HS, and if KD keeps restocking with other quality players as he has in recent years, it's not unrealistic to achieve all those goals and more. But it's not a slam dunk, and it certainly may not be evident in the first few games of this season. Right now it's still nothing but potential. The full success formula is potential + execution = results.We should all be disappointed if the Zips, both as individuals and as a team, do not fully develop their potential and prove it on the court. But the cold reality of sports is that many fans start each season with optimism, and most end the season disappointed because their expectations were not fully met.

[GP1]

Dominate mid-major teams win NCAA tourney games.

I think you captured what others may think, but aren't willing to say. As usual, the Great GP1 has to say it and then take the heat. Here we go.....The Zips are not a dominate mid-major team right now. KD doesn't say his team is Top 25 or even a dominate mid-major, he says he wants to get there. He knows where his team is right now and is living in the world of reality. Whether people want to admit it or not, the Zips were pretty harshly shown the door last year in the NCAA Tournament by a team that wasn't even that good. I think it is unlikely that a team goes from being harshly shown the door to winning a game the following season. When the Zips return to the NCAA Tournament again this season, they did nothing the previous season to earn a higher seed and the potential for winning is decreased.Most of the way I view sports is from being a Steelers fan. The Steelers are first and foremost built to win the AFC North or come in second. By doing that, they make the playoffs frequently and then see what happens once they get in. Winning Super Bowls is the benefit of winning on a regular basis during the regular season. If you put yourself in a position where good things can happen, good things will happen eventually. That's my point with the Zips. Keep winning the MAC, dominate the regular season so winning kids want to come to your school and let the chips fall where they may in the NCAA tournament.Was the MAC Championship last year more about a team putting themselves in a position to be successful, or was it part of the strange "building" conspiracy we read about so much on this board? I think it was more of a case where the Zips have put themselves in a position to win over the past few years and eventually were going to win one. There is nothing to be ashamed about because they lost their first round NCAA game.The Winthrop analogy is interesting because I live just a few miles from their campus. KD talks about the window of opportunity for the Zips. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. It assumes when the window closes, success ends because everything has to have a beginning, middle and end. This type of linear thinking is destroying our society and destroys teams. This happened to Winthrop in a conference that is better than the MAC. They basically had a class of kids that came in an won four straight conference titles, won some NCAA games and are gone. Now that they are gone (along with the coach that brought them in), they are back to not being a very good team. You guys saw what was left at Winthrop last season at the JAR and it isn't very pretty. I want to hear KD talk about the Zips dominating the MAC for the near and far future with him being part of that success. Take one game at a time and the success will follow. Worry about what happens at the end of the season when it gets here.

[Hilltopper]

Dominate mid-major teams win NCAA tourney games.

I think you captured what others may think, but aren't willing to say. As usual, the Great GP1 has to say it and then take the heat. Here we go.....The Zips are not a dominate mid-major team right now. KD doesn't say his team is Top 25 or even a dominate mid-major, he says he wants to get there. He knows where his team is right now and is living in the world of reality. Whether people want to admit it or not, the Zips were pretty harshly shown the door last year in the NCAA Tournament by a team that wasn't even that good. I think it is unlikely that a team goes from being harshly shown the door to winning a game the following season. When the Zips return to the NCAA Tournament again this season, they did nothing the previous season to earn a higher seed and the potential for winning is decreased.Most of the way I view sports is from being a Steelers fan. The Steelers are first and foremost built to win the AFC North or come in second. By doing that, they make the playoffs frequently and then see what happens once they get in. Winning Super Bowls is the benefit of winning on a regular basis during the regular season. If you put yourself in a position where good things can happen, good things will happen eventually. That's my point with the Zips. Keep winning the MAC, dominate the regular season so winning kids want to come to your school and let the chips fall where they may in the NCAA tournament.Was the MAC Championship last year more about a team putting themselves in a position to be successful, or was it part of the strange "building" conspiracy we read about so much on this board? I think it was more of a case where the Zips have put themselves in a position to win over the past few years and eventually were going to win one. There is nothing to be ashamed about because they lost their first round NCAA game.The Winthrop analogy is interesting because I live just a few miles from their campus. KD talks about the window of opportunity for the Zips. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. It assumes when the window closes, success ends because everything has to have a beginning, middle and end. This type of linear thinking is destroying our society and destroys teams. This happened to Winthrop in a conference that is better than the MAC. They basically had a class of kids that came in an won four straight conference titles, won some NCAA games and are gone. Now that they are gone (along with the coach that brought them in), they are back to not being a very good team. You guys saw what was left at Winthrop last season at the JAR and it isn't very pretty. I want to hear KD talk about the Zips dominating the MAC for the near and far future with him being part of that success. Take one game at a time and the success will follow. Worry about what happens at the end of the season when it gets here.

I agree. Start with dominating the MAC and build from there.

[GP1]

Do you think a recruit is going to be more impressed if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us win all of our conference games in the MAC this year?" or if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us beat <insert overrated big conference team> in the Big Dance and make that Sweet 16 run this year?"

I depends on the type of kid you think you can realistically recruit. At the time Zeke decided to come to UofA, we had not even won the MAC Tournament yet or made the NCAA tournament. My guess is Zeke came to UofA for a lot of reasons and very near the top he saw the Zips were winning a lot and wanted to be part of the winning. I want kids that want to be part of a winning program. Kids that are focused on the end of the season are not focused on games in January and February. I worry about bringing in kids like that.

[GP1]

Dominate mid-major teams win NCAA tourney games.

I think you captured what others may think, but aren't willing to say. As usual, the Great GP1 has to say it and then take the heat. Here we go.....The Zips are not a dominate mid-major team right now. KD doesn't say his team is Top 25 or even a dominate mid-major, he says he wants to get there. He knows where his team is right now and is living in the world of reality. Whether people want to admit it or not, the Zips were pretty harshly shown the door last year in the NCAA Tournament by a team that wasn't even that good. I think it is unlikely that a team goes from being harshly shown the door to winning a game the following season. When the Zips return to the NCAA Tournament again this season, they did nothing the previous season to earn a higher seed and the potential for winning is decreased.Most of the way I view sports is from being a Steelers fan. The Steelers are first and foremost built to win the AFC North or come in second. By doing that, they make the playoffs frequently and then see what happens once they get in. Winning Super Bowls is the benefit of winning on a regular basis during the regular season. If you put yourself in a position where good things can happen, good things will happen eventually. That's my point with the Zips. Keep winning the MAC, dominate the regular season so winning kids want to come to your school and let the chips fall where they may in the NCAA tournament.Was the MAC Championship last year more about a team putting themselves in a position to be successful, or was it part of the strange "building" conspiracy we read about so much on this board? I think it was more of a case where the Zips have put themselves in a position to win over the past few years and eventually were going to win one. There is nothing to be ashamed about because they lost their first round NCAA game.The Winthrop analogy is interesting because I live just a few miles from their campus. KD talks about the window of opportunity for the Zips. I think that is the wrong way to look at it. It assumes when the window closes, success ends because everything has to have a beginning, middle and end. This type of linear thinking is destroying our society and destroys teams. This happened to Winthrop in a conference that is better than the MAC. They basically had a class of kids that came in an won four straight conference titles, won some NCAA games and are gone. Now that they are gone (along with the coach that brought them in), they are back to not being a very good team. You guys saw what was left at Winthrop last season at the JAR and it isn't very pretty. I want to hear KD talk about the Zips dominating the MAC for the near and far future with him being part of that success. Take one game at a time and the success will follow. Worry about what happens at the end of the season when it gets here.

I agree. Start with dominating the MAC and build from there.

Don't "build", just dominate and good things will happen.

[Dave in Green]

Whether people want to admit it or not, the Zips were pretty harshly shown the door last year in the NCAA Tournament by a team that wasn't even that good.

Most people would not admit this because they know it isn't true. Gonzaga was rated #7 in the final 2009 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings after being beaten in the NCAA tournament by the team that won the national championship and finished #1 in the Pomeroy Ratings, North Carolina.

[GP1]

Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

The what?

[Zipmeister]

Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

The what?

Come on gpuno, get with the flow. It would behoove you to check them out at http://kenpom.com/rate.php and you will see they currently have Akron tied for the number 1 ranking.

[Valpo Zip]

Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

The what?

Come on gpuno, get with the flow. It would behoove you to check them out at http://kenpom.com/rate.php and you will see they currently have Akron tied for the number 1 ranking.

Man that season opening game between Akron and Austin Peay is the game of the year. Both teams are ranked #1 according to pomeroy

[RACER]

you have to be kidding to call the zags a team that was not that good.that team has two guys playing in the nba now from that team last year.when you say something like that you are clueless.when akron can put one guy in the nba off our team i would be estatic.they put two guys in the nba off that team,and they are not that good???

[Dave in Green]

Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

The what?

Ken Pomeroy's basketball rating system is considered by many to be the most sophisticated and accurate. But if you want to rely on the more familiar AP ratings, they ranked the Zags 13th in their final poll. Every poll showed Gonzaga fairly well up in the top 25 at the end of last season.

[GP1]

Sorry guys. I just don't agree that Gonzaga is a great program or even a Top 20 program. I will admit they are a great mid-major program though. Here are their 2008 results. 25-5 looks good on the surface, but they started out the season 9-4. Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly. Wins against Akron and W. Kentucky in the Tournament do not really impress me much either.Back to the main point. The Zips are a good mid-major program. We have a long way to go before being considered a great mid-major program. The proof will be what the Zips do on the court. Not their rankings or their opponents rankings.

[infofan]

Sorry guys. I just don't agree that Gonzaga is a great program or even a Top 20 program. I will admit they are a great mid-major program though. Here are their 2008 results. 25-5 looks good on the surface, but they started out the season 9-4. Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly. Wins against Akron and W. Kentucky in the Tournament do not really impress me much either.Back to the main point. The Zips are a good mid-major program. We have a long way to go before being considered a great mid-major program. The proof will be what the Zips do on the court. Not their rankings or their opponents rankings.

Sorry to disagree but I believe Gonzaga is indeed a great program. A school of 6000 that has been in NCAAs countless times, advanced countless times, on natl tv countless times,put several players in NBA. And as for their schedule, they may not play in ACC or SEC, or Big 10 but they played and beat top 20 teams Tennessee (twice)and OK ST last year, as well as beating Maryland, Indiana, Washington St, Mt ST Marys, Tx Southern, and others. If thats not a great program what realistically is??

[Quickzips]

Sorry guys. I just don't agree that Gonzaga is a great program or even a Top 20 program. I will admit they are a great mid-major program though. Here are their 2008 results. 25-5 looks good on the surface, but they started out the season 9-4. Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly. Wins against Akron and W. Kentucky in the Tournament do not really impress me much either.Back to the main point. The Zips are a good mid-major program. We have a long way to go before being considered a great mid-major program. The proof will be what the Zips do on the court. Not their rankings or their opponents rankings.

Sorry to disagree but I believe Gonzaga is indeed a great program. A school of 6000 that has been in NCAAs countless times, advanced countless times, on natl tv countless times,put several players in NBA. And as for their schedule, they may not play in ACC or SEC, or Big 10 but they played and beat top 20 teams Tennessee (twice)and OK ST last year, as well as beating Maryland, Indiana, Washington St, Mt ST Marys, Tx Southern, and others. If thats not a great program what realistically is??

Whatever the self proclaimed "Great GP1" says is a great program, is a great program. Actual empirical evidence be damned!

[Dave in Green]

Sorry guys. I just don't agree that Gonzaga is a great program or even a Top 20 program. I will admit they are a great mid-major program though. Here are their 2008 results. 25-5 looks good on the surface, but they started out the season 9-4. Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly. Wins against Akron and W. Kentucky in the Tournament do not really impress me much either.Back to the main point. The Zips are a good mid-major program. We have a long way to go before being considered a great mid-major program. The proof will be what the Zips do on the court. Not their rankings or their opponents rankings.

Hey, believe whatever you want, regardless of empirical data. That's what many people on sports forums do, so no embarassment there. I like to try to rely on the best available factual data. Fact is, Gonzaga had the 5th toughest non-conference SOS last season, so they're obviously not trying to duck tough competition.It's always fair to quibble with whether a sports team was somewhat overrated or underrated in a particular poll, because all polls involve some degree of subjectiveness. But dissing a team that was universally highly rated in all polls reflects more on the disser than the dissee. ;)EDIT: By the way, you said "Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly." The results in the link you provided showed that prior to the NCAA tournament they beat No. 12 Tennessee 83-74, lost to No. 2 Connecticut 88-83, beat No. 18 St. Mary's 69-62 and lost to No. 15 Memphis 68-50. So they beat two top 20 teams, lost to one by a small margin and were beaten badly by only one.Do you really want to be taken seriously here?

[zippy_ua_00]

Do you think a recruit is going to be more impressed if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us win all of our conference games in the MAC this year?" or if we go up to him and say, "hey, did you see us beat <insert overrated big conference team> in the Big Dance and make that Sweet 16 run this year?"

I depends on the type of kid you think you can realistically recruit. At the time Zeke decided to come to UofA, we had not even won the MAC Tournament yet or made the NCAA tournament. My guess is Zeke came to UofA for a lot of reasons and very near the top he saw the Zips were winning a lot and wanted to be part of the winning. I want kids that want to be part of a winning program. Kids that are focused on the end of the season are not focused on games in January and February. I worry about bringing in kids like that.

actually, i have a friend that used to tudor all the athletes, football basketbal baseball soccer etc etc, and he said zeke chose UA because of our computer program. hes a big dork. LOVES computers, LIKES basketball. can you imagine how good he could be if he LOVED basketball? Anyway, i think its good he chose our school because of the education firstly and the sport secondly, and this is why i say. he is more likely to stay all 4 years to get his degree. he will stay out of trouble cuz he is actually there for an education. anyway, GO ZIPS

[zippy_ua_00]

Sorry guys. I just don't agree that Gonzaga is a great program or even a Top 20 program. I will admit they are a great mid-major program though. Here are their 2008 results. 25-5 looks good on the surface, but they started out the season 9-4. Whenever they play a Top 20 team, they get beaten badly. Wins against Akron and W. Kentucky in the Tournament do not really impress me much either.Back to the main point. The Zips are a good mid-major program. We have a long way to go before being considered a great mid-major program. The proof will be what the Zips do on the court. Not their rankings or their opponents rankings.

you dont think oklahoma state is a good team? or #12 tennessee, who which the beat twice last season, or #8 st marys, who which they beat 3 times last season, or Indiana, (i know indiana wasnt great but its still a Major conferance team being beat by a mid major). they only lost to UCONN and arizona by 5. i dont see any blow outs there.