GP1 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG TO THIS TOPIC?The MAC was on TV every night last week. Think of the games in two ways:1. A MAC fan.2. Joe sports fan across America with no real interest in the MAC.Describe what you saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I see a conference with a "FEW" talented players, and no fan support. Hell some high schools have as many fans show up as us. Don't believe me I see a conference that was run by Marshall and now that same team is a middle of the pack/ bottom feeder of another so so conferenceAn undefeated Temple team that was kicked out of the Big East less than 5 years ago and is now undefeated in conference play.Can't think of any big games this conference has won. Why am I watching again? Turns channel....Cinci doing good, OSU doing good, Mount Union doing good, the rest are doing not so good.....and don't say OU, Can't, or BG because there records are inflated cause they beat a bunch of bad teams!So what do I see a crappy conference that needs to be revamped or go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno aka Menace Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Maybe we should add Villanova they beat the first place team in the conference?? Seriously has this conference beat 1 relevant team all year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I see a conference with a "FEW" talented players, and no fan support. Hell some high schools have as many fans show up as us. Don't believe me I see a conference that was run by Marshall and now that same team is a middle of the pack/ bottom feeder of another so so conferenceAn undefeated Temple team that was kicked out of the Big East less than 5 years ago and is now undefeated in conference play.Can't think of any big games this conference has won. Why am I watching again? Turns channel....Cinci doing good, OSU doing good, Mount Union doing good, the rest are doing not so good.....and don't say OU, Can't, or BG because there records are inflated cause they beat a bunch of bad teams!So what do I see a crappy conference that needs to be revamped or go away.Is the MAC doing itself a disservice by entering in agreements (whoring itself out) with ESPN?Don't be scared guys. The first step in solving a problem is realizing there is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 ESPNU is the devil. I said it several years ago, and nothing has changed:Regarding watching the MAC on TV -MAC football, at this time, is awful. Akron sucks, K.e.n.t. sucks, EMU sucks, Ball State sucks, Miami sucks...basically every team in the MAC sucks with the exception of CMU and Temple. Teams like BG, OU and NIU have decent records, but only because they play against such pitiful competition. Any of those 3 teams will get smoked by 4 TD's if they play in a bowl game.Akron has taken 2 of the 3 steps necessary to break out of the MAC cesspool and rise to the levels of Temple and CMU. Akron has the training facilities and the stadium. Now they need a coach.A trained monkey should be able to win 6 games in the MAC, considering the laughable annual strength of schedule. Temple spent the money on a coach, and it paid off. But, spending money doesn't guarantee anything. If it did, Notre Dame wouldn't have sucked for the last 20 seasons, the Washington Redskins wouldn't suck, and the New York Mets would win every other World Series.The Zips need a new coaching staff commensurate with a $61million stadium. Then we'll be entertaining to watch on national TV. Until then, we'll just be embarrassing. Temple gave the blueprint. Follow it and win. Or, pray for some success on-the-cheap, follow EMU, and lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 MAC football, at this time, is awful.Why does it suck? Specifically, what does a fan actually see when they watch a game?I'm not trying to be silly or anything like that. It's important to get these issues out in the open for fans so they understand where the league is and why it is the way it is and why it really needs to start doing things differently.No right or wrong answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 MAC football, at this time, is awful.Why does it suck? Specifically, what does a fan actually see when they watch a game?I'm not trying to be silly or anything like that. It's important to get these issues out in the open for fans so they understand where the league is and why it is the way it is and why it really needs to start doing things differently.No right or wrong answers.I said it in my post - MAC teams will not spend what it takes to be successful in D1-A football. If you want to be like Temple and turn around decades of losing - spend the f*ucking money. If you want to lose, if you want a "great" season to be 7-5, then keep your coaching salaries in the bottom 10% of D1-A football. If you want to be successful in D1-A football, it isn't just the outermost bill that needs to be a $100. The inner ones need to be too.You get what you pay for.That is the right answer. Any other answers are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 MAC football, at this time, is awful.Why does it suck? Specifically, what does a fan actually see when they watch a game?I'm not trying to be silly or anything like that. It's important to get these issues out in the open for fans so they understand where the league is and why it is the way it is and why it really needs to start doing things differently.No right or wrong answers.I said it in my post - MAC teams will not spend what it takes to be successful in D1-A football. If you want to be like Temple and turn around decades of losing - spend the f*ucking money. If you want to lose, if you want a "great" season to be 7-5, then keep your coaching salaries in the bottom 10% of D1-A football. You get what you pay for.That is the right answer. Any other answers are wrong.I don't disagree. What does a MAC game look like though? Describe what you see, specifically.....It has to be worse in person because TV can show only what they want to show. Some they just can't hide though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchrider1 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I saw bad football in the middle of the week for about 5 minutes and then I saw re-runs of the Office for the next few hours.We need to hide these games on Saturday. Showing them mid-week on national tv I believe is only hurting the recruiting prospects. The stands are empty, the football is bad and the announcers suck.Bad televison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 MAC football, at this time, is awful.Why does it suck? Specifically, what does a fan actually see when they watch a game?I'm not trying to be silly or anything like that. It's important to get these issues out in the open for fans so they understand where the league is and why it is the way it is and why it really needs to start doing things differently.No right or wrong answers.I said it in my post - MAC teams will not spend what it takes to be successful in D1-A football. If you want to be like Temple and turn around decades of losing - spend the f*ucking money. If you want to lose, if you want a "great" season to be 7-5, then keep your coaching salaries in the bottom 10% of D1-A football. You get what you pay for.That is the right answer. Any other answers are wrong.I don't disagree. What does a MAC game look like though? Describe what you see, specifically.....It has to be worse in person because TV can show only what they want to show. Some they just can't hide though.I see a continuation of high school football. When I watch a BCS game, i see something leading into the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I was hoping to get a few more takers.I'm seeing the MAC more and more as "Joe sports fan" since I've moved from Ohio. I'm still a fan of the league, but getting away from it has actually made my opinion of it change over the past three football seasons.Here is what I see. If a sentence ends with ...., that means "compared to other D-1A leagues":1. Players drop too many easily catchable passes...2. Players are too slow...3. Players are too small...4. Most stadiums are not even close to 20% capacity and ESPN has trouble hiding that fact.5. Referees have long huddles to decide what to do after routine calls.6. Players are not just slow, they are not quick...7. We don't see enough good passers.I'll go through this again. What does the MAC need to do?1. Stop the bleeding.2. Get off of ESPN week night games unless it is a Thursday ESPN game. The league is a mess right now and advertising the mess to the remainder of the country is not helping.3. Improve the product on the field. Better coaches would help. How are they going to pay for them if nobody is paying to go to Tuesday night games? How are they going to pay for the coaches if the product is so bad nobody would walk across the street to watch a game?4. Get better players? This is always the answer. How do you get better players if a recruit is watching from home and sees an empty stadium? How do you get better players if they want their parents to come to games and their parents can't come to a few home games because they are on a work night and they can't take the time off of work? How are we going to get better players if we don't have an academic support system to keep at risk players in school and on track to graduation?5. Get better coaches? Money is a good way to attract a good coach. Where is the money going to come from? Empty stadiums?6. Win more. Stop scheduling three guaranteed losses a year for each team and maybe people in their communities might get a little excited about going to games.7. As soon as they can, Temple is going to leave the MAC. Then what? The answer is to force the issue with Temple by threatening to drop down to I-AA. Then the MAC needs to become a I-AA conference. Are we better off as the worst D-1A conference or the best I-AA conference? Even if we get better, then what, we'll be just as good as C-USA?....that's still lame. Get as good as the ACC?.....we don't have the facilities/money to compete in the ACC...we would have the smallest stadium in the ACC if we entered the league. Don't get me wrong, I go to at least seven ACC games a year and it isn't that great of a conference, but I get to see some good athletes catch passes, run fast, make good tackles, execute game plans, make extra points, make long field goals, see some nationally known programs like FSU, Maryland, Miami, Stanford, Elon (OK, not really), NC State, Baylor, Clemson and sit in a full stadium. These scholols will always have more money than a MAC school. An 85,000 seat stadium is going to generate more money than a 27,000 seat stadium.8. Make the darn league smaller. Temple wil be gone and get rid of two more. Eleven games at I-AA is enough and if you make the playoffs, you get more games. There is actually a real reward for winning the conference if a national championship could be in the future. What is the reward for winning the MAC right now?.....Getting your ass kicked in a horrible bowl game.At the end of the day, the MAC has been around since the 1940s and this is what they have built? The league is terrible and we are exactly where we belong. Wishing and saying it is going to be good isn't going to make it good. Throwing money at the problem isn't going to make it good because everyone else will be able to generate more money. It wasn't until the last three years that I have really solidified my views on this issue. Getting away from the MAC and seeing how even a second tier conference like the ACC functions has been healthy for me and my views of the MAC. I think if the MAC would do what I want, it would be a GREAT conference. I know all of this looks really negative, but the athletic department has to function in the world of reality. The reality is the league is horrible and the entertainment value is poor. It is straight Dollar General. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Temple vs. CMU at Ford Field will look great. It will be great football, played at a high level.Any other games are poor exhibitions. Missed field goals galore...on-side kicks being returned for TD's...27 yard rugby punts...running backs dancing in their own endzone, getting tackled for a safety...in the 4th quarter, coaches punting on 4th and 1 when they need a TD...stuff like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 5. Get better coaches? Money is a good way to attract a good coach. Where is the money going to come from? Empty stadiums?Come on. That's the easiest "crutch" in the MAC. You need to spend money to make money. Win games and people will come. Lose and they won't. There are a billion examples out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyzip84 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I can think of around sixty one million reasons why we shouldn't drop down to the FCS level. While I'll agree that GP make some good points, I really believe this topic is irrelevant to Dr. Proenza and the people that matter at AKRON. Could SOME of the MAC teams drop down? Sure. That, in itself, might be good for the remaining teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDZip Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Any other games are poor exhibitions. Missed field goals galore...on-side kicks being returned for TD's...27 yard rugby punts...running backs dancing in their own endzone, getting tackled for a safety...in the 4th quarter, coaches punting on 4th and 1 when they need a TD...stuff like that...And that's just us, it doesn't count all of the other crappy play from the rest of the leaugue. There is a certain panache with being associated with FBS football, even if it is the lowest level, that is still better than the top of the FCS. What I'd love to see is the same parity applied to the FBS as applies in ALL other sports other than FBS football. GP1 mentions that we can't compete with the behemoths in terms of money and he's right, especially with this crooked system in place, however, I don't agree on one other point. Where was Boise St ten years ago? They didn't have the money either (still don't really) and they made it work. Same for Hawaii, Utah, TCU this year. All are in poorer conferences but somehow all have been able to raise their play (at least for some peiod of time). The biggest difference is that it isn't sustained over the long haul. But they have been able to do it. The bottom feeders in the MWC and WAC aren't much different from the MAC bottom feeders. And it wasn't too long ago that the MAC was a giant killer, regularly knocking off BCS level schools, many times even ranked schools. I believe it can happen again. So what happened? I think the biggest thing is that we are in a down coaching cycle. When the MAC was good those were good coaches who have gone on to greater success (Pinkney, Meyer). Now that does take some money to get a good coach but its still hit or miss. I honestly believe that is the bottom line. Get the right leader (Temple and CMU are good examples) and success can very well follow. The problem for the MAC is you need to keep replacing those guys and right now the league has not done a good job with their choices. Where would Akron soccer be without Caleb Porter - good but not great. Baketball without KD -we know what the team was like in the Hipsher days. Track without Dennis Mitchell? These folks are the difference makers, they bring in the right athletes for their systems, hire the right people to help them and find success even at places it is historically tougher to do so. Look at Ball State, a good coach with a couple good players that he brought in, and they were in the top 25 last year. Look where they are this year. In college, coaches are everything because they completely control their environment. We need to find a good one, a bad one will set you back about 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 MAC football, at this time, is awful.Why does it suck? Specifically, what does a fan actually see when they watch a game?I'm not trying to be silly or anything like that. It's important to get these issues out in the open for fans so they understand where the league is and why it is the way it is and why it really needs to start doing things differently.No right or wrong answers.I said it in my post - MAC teams will not spend what it takes to be successful in D1-A football. If you want to be like Temple and turn around decades of losing - spend the f*ucking money. If you want to lose, if you want a "great" season to be 7-5, then keep your coaching salaries in the bottom 10% of D1-A football. If you want to be successful in D1-A football, it isn't just the outermost bill that needs to be a $100. The inner ones need to be too.You get what you pay for.That is the right answer. Any other answers are wrong.As we approach Thanksgiving, I am just thankful that you wrote "f*ucking" because if you had written fu*cking people may have figured out the word you were disguising and that would have been a fucking shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 What does the MAC need to do?1. Stop the bleeding.3. Improve the product on the field.4. Get better players? 5. Get better coaches?6. Win more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 1-AA is not an option for Akron. It might be for EMU and Ball State (they're actively scheduling like they're one).For most MAC teams, they are the way they are because they won't spend the money to support the program. That wouldn't change if they dropped down; it would only get worse. If you're bad, you're bad, no matter what level you are competing at.The MAC would quickly work their way to the bottom of 1-AA despite having the best facilities. The only way to change anything is to get together the schools that are committed to their athletics programs and split off from the rest. Drop the dead weight. Drop the influences of the presidents who hate athletics. Let them drop, let them flounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctmjbowes@sbcglobal.net Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'll agree with most of GP's points. Several times this year I've turned on MAC weeknight games and they were atrocius, almost depressing to watch. The vibe is completely small-time in most of the games and I end up sitting there thinking "well why the hell would anyone want to give up a weeknight evening to watch THIS when they have to be up for work in the morning"? And then I think "and that applies to me too." And I change the channel. Have you noticed how watching TV games played under the lights in a mostly empty stadium makes for an eerily unexciting event, even if the game play is good? Bad bad bad. At this time Akron is absolutely part of the MAC problem. This team sucks and not one of us should even be mentioning anything about the MAC somehow being below us. We are the ugly, morose and craptastic MAC in its purest form right now. Damn I hope that changes. Second, as long as the MAC is so bad these ridiculous weeknight games are the Worst Thing Ever. Give me Saturday games. Always. Screw ESPNU and the pathetic job they do with these games. Weeknight MAC football couldn't make for a more lame entertainment product. OK, one last point. We all know that money won't guarantee the best coach ever, but the cheap-ass low-rent salaries that Akron and other craptastic MAC programs have been scraping by on for many years certainly narrows the pool of quality candidates. There is no way that's a good thing. Pay these guys something that will attract a solid candidate pool and make this program a less-unattractive option and we'll all be the better for it.I'm still waiting to see whether the UA President and Board are intelligent and driven enough NOT to completely waste the money that has already been invested in this program. How monumentally idiotic will it be if they continue to low-rent coaches and fail to do something, anything positive with this program? I hope for better here, but I will not declare any optimism until much, much later. Hey Luis and Co., you want us to be excited about buying tickets to Zips football games? Make it happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 the little money we get from espn is not worth having are games on espnu on a weeknight.i think each team gets around1 million from tv revenue.that money could easliy be made up by having games on weekends.people spend money on tickets,food,zips gear ect.if we were getting 10 million a year from espn it might be a different story.plus we are put on a channel that most cables viewers cannot get ,or have to pay more for.i still don't understand why the mac does notstart it's own network to show games.let the cable compaines have the channel for free.it would be a great way to promotemac schools.we could show are own games on cbale.i am not sure of the cost factor,but you have 13 schools to divide the cost.if this confernce is ever going to grow they need to think outside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycevs Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 ESPN is not helping MAC football fans, or working to create anything but entertainment for those that are wagering on games.The difference in night vs day games is a big factor for the fans, but I don't agree that this is a league devoid of talent. Look at any NFL roster, and the players are there, Look around the coaching circles, and there is MAC influence in coaching almost everywhere. For the players, the only thing I see lacking is major talent in the trenches. I can watch SEC football and still see badly played football, with way more talent, but its not well played or well coached most of the time. Each conference seems like they cant play D except for the elite few, I think that's the nature of college football today, not just in the MAC, but offenses are ahead of the defenses. And last, there are a rare few that can make special teams plays like kick a field goal consistently, and this is all college football not just Akron. Right now in general, I think there are few actual quality teams in the NCAA. Bottom line, if you can play defense, you can always win, not so on offense. So, if Akron wants to win, forget hiring coaches that you think will average 35 points a game, find one that gives up 17 or less on DEFENSE, and an offense that can wear somebody down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Adams Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 ESPN is not helping MAC football fans, or working to create anything but entertainment for those that are wagering on games.The difference in night vs day games is a big factor for the fans, but I don't agree that this is a league devoid of talent. Look at any NFL roster, and the players are there, Look around the coaching circles, and there is MAC influence in coaching almost everywhere. For the players, the only thing I see lacking is major talent in the trenches. I can watch SEC football and still see badly played football, with way more talent, but its not well played or well coached most of the time. Each conference seems like they cant play D except for the elite few, I think that's the nature of college football today, not just in the MAC, but offenses are ahead of the defenses. And last, there are a rare few that can make special teams plays like kick a field goal consistently, and this is all college football not just Akron. Right now in general, I think there are few actual quality teams in the NCAA. Bottom line, if you can play defense, you can always win, not so on offense. So, if Akron wants to win, forget hiring coaches that you think will average 35 points a game, find one that gives up 17 or less on DEFENSE, and an offense that can wear somebody down. a lot of us said that 3 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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