Column Bemoans Sorry State of MAC Basketball

[Captain Kangaroo]

MAC Hoops in 2009-10...blech.Over the course of time, the conference ebbs and flows. But it is hard to believe that only 8-10 years ago, the conference was putting out NBA 1st rounders?Daniels...Trent...Sczerbiak...Boykins...even guys like Brandon Hunter, Keith McCloud and Anthony Stacey were markedly better than just about anyone in the MAC right now.I think the Zips have held up their end of the bargain, and are an improved program from the early 2000's. But who else in the MAC can say they are better than they were 8 years ago? It is unreal how everyone's worse off.

[Hilltopper]

MAC Hoops in 2009-10...blech.Over the course of time, the conference ebbs and flows. But it is hard to believe that only 8-10 years ago, the conference was putting out NBA 1st rounders?Daniels...Trent...Sczerbiak...Boykins...even guys like Brandon Hunter, Keith McCloud and Anthony Stacey were markedly better than just about anyone in the MAC right now.I think the Zips have held up their end of the bargain, and are an improved program from the early 2000's. But who else in the MAC can say they are better than they were 8 years ago? It is unreal how everyone's worse off.

You need to fix your link CK, it goes to an article about Syracuse football.

[Captain Kangaroo]

MAC Hoops in 2009-10...blech.Over the course of time, the conference ebbs and flows. But it is hard to believe that only 8-10 years ago, the conference was putting out NBA 1st rounders?Daniels...Trent...Sczerbiak...Boykins...even guys like Brandon Hunter, Keith McCloud and Anthony Stacey were markedly better than just about anyone in the MAC right now.I think the Zips have held up their end of the bargain, and are an improved program from the early 2000's. But who else in the MAC can say they are better than they were 8 years ago? It is unreal how everyone's worse off.

You need to fix your link CK, it goes to an article about Syracuse football.

Fixed!

[GP1]

MAC Hoops in 2009-10...blech.Over the course of time, the conference ebbs and flows. But it is hard to believe that only 8-10 years ago, the conference was putting out NBA 1st rounders?Daniels...Trent...Sczerbiak...Boykins...even guys like Brandon Hunter, Keith McCloud and Anthony Stacey were markedly better than just about anyone in the MAC right now.I think the Zips have held up their end of the bargain, and are an improved program from the early 2000's. But who else in the MAC can say they are better than they were 8 years ago? It is unreal how everyone's worse off.

Good post!The MAC has gotten so bad in just about everything, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what has happened. The answer is difficult, so the solution is probably difficult as well. If you were a player of good offensive talent/wants to play in the NBA, the MAC probably isn't the place for you. Between the bad refs and the defensive orientation, the games are a bloodbath. This is probably just one reason of many though.

[Zipmeister]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

[Captain Kangaroo]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

St Francis wouldn't win a MAC West game. There's "MAC West Bad"...and then there's "St Francis PA Bad." It's like comparing eating lima beans, or poop. Lima beans are horrible, but they ain't poop.[Note - I have not tried poop. If anyone has, and has enjoyed it, well...keep it to yourself]

[zip37]

Cap't Roo--Had dried 'night soil' blow hard enough to reduce visibility and cover everything with human dung dust, does that count?

[Zipmeister]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

St Francis wouldn't win a MAC West game. There's "MAC West Bad"...and then there's "St Francis PA Bad." It's like comparing eating lima beans, or poop. Lima beans are horrible, but they ain't poop.[Note - I have not tried poop. If anyone has, and has enjoyed it, well...keep it to yourself]

You are correct. They wouldn't win a MAC West game, they would win almost all of them. [Note - I have not tried poop either. If anyone has, and did not enjoy it, ... please share your story with us]

[Quickzips]

Problems as I see them:Poor recruiting. Too many teams in the MAC have fallen into the idea that the best way to win the conference is to try and find a couple of good guards, match them up with some undersized frontcourt players and hope for the best. Problem is, if you strike out with the guards, you have zero chance of doing anything outside of the conference because your frontcourt is so vastly undersized. Combine this with the proclivity of certain teams to take the "easy" route by trying to recruit JUCO's and troubled transfers and you have an insustainable recruiting situation.Too much focus on just trying to win in the conference. This ties back into recruiting, but it seems that too many teams, ourselves included often times, are too focused on just winning the conference. There doesn't seem to be that ambition out there to win the tough OOC's games. Just get through them without any injuries and hope you learn something from them while getting a nice paycheck. Conference season is all that matters, and really, it only matters for seeding those four days in Cleveland. It does nothing to raise the conference status during the regular season and nothing to prepare whatever "champion" comes out of the tournament for the NCAA's.Poor scheduling. Unfortunatly we are probably the most guilty culprit here. It's been hashed out over and over again on this forum, so I won't go into too much detail, but the bottom line is that you can't win games you don't schedule. Until the conference as a whole steps up and demands better scheduling the MAC will continue to trend towards numerous home games against absolutely abysmal competition that does nothing to raise the profile of the conference.Focus at the top on football. Let's face it, the MAC has tried in recent years to be a football conference (an attempt that has pretty much failed). Basketball has been a secondary focus for the league office and it has shown. This really isn't a "conference" when it comes to basketball as much as it is a collection of 11 individual programs masquerading as an organized group of teams. We have no scheduling guidelines, no real television deal to speak of, no scheduling alliances with other conferences. Until the conference itself steps up and focuses more on basketball it is hard to see this thing turning around.Again, just a few of my thoughts. I'm sure the problems run much deeper than just what I have come up with.

[Z.I.P.]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

St Francis wouldn't win a MAC West game. There's "MAC West Bad"...and then there's "St Francis PA Bad." It's like comparing eating lima beans, or poop. Lima beans are horrible, but they ain't poop.[Note - I have not tried poop. If anyone has, and has enjoyed it, well...keep it to yourself]

You are correct. They wouldn't win a MAC West game, they would win almost all of them. [Note - I have not tried poop either. If anyone has, and did not enjoy it, ... please share your story with us]

Thanks for your compliments to the MAC West. I paid real $$ for tickets to see Western Michigan go up against USC tomorrow. I THOUGHT WMU had a chance, as this is the worst USC team in a while -- then they sprung an upset on Tennessee yesterday. Well, it should be a Kool affair at least.

[Zipmeister]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

St Francis wouldn't win a MAC West game. There's "MAC West Bad"...and then there's "St Francis PA Bad." It's like comparing eating lima beans, or poop. Lima beans are horrible, but they ain't poop.[Note - I have not tried poop. If anyone has, and has enjoyed it, well...keep it to yourself]

You are correct. They wouldn't win a MAC West game, they would win almost all of them. [Note - I have not tried poop either. If anyone has, and did not enjoy it, ... please share your story with us]

Thanks for your compliments to the MAC West. I paid real $$ for tickets to see Western Michigan go up against USC tomorrow. I THOUGHT WMU had a chance, as this is the worst USC team in a while -- then they sprung an upset on Tennessee yesterday. Well, it should be a Kool affair at least.

I'm looking for improvement in the MAC West this year. Last year no team in the MAC West had a winning record in or out of conference. I predict one may break the .500 mark this season.

[GP1]

the bottom line is that you can't win games you don't schedule.

Excellent quote!It reminds me of one of my favorite golf quotes, "100% of the putts that come up short of the cup don't go in."

[Captain Kangaroo]

the bottom line is that you can't win games you don't schedule.

Excellent quote!It reminds me of one of my favorite golf quotes, "100% of the putts that come up short of the cup don't go in."

I don't think the Zips schedule is THAT far off from being attractive.The NC State, Texas A&M and Rhode Island games are good mid-to-upper level tilts. Drake, Valpo, UIC, Niagara, Wyoming and Austin Peay are solid mid-majors. Even a Malone or Walsh is ok for a tune up. That only leaves the UNCG, St Francis and extra D-III games and ones that can be improved upon.I get the fact that we need our young guys to play, and that playing a top-heavy BCS-laden Nov/Dec schedule won't allow that to happen. I get the fact that we want to get our 20-wins. I get that primo opponents want too much money to come to the JAR. What I don't get, or like, is that I see no end to the present scheduling pattern. I keep wanting to see the Zips rise up and knock off some noteworthy opponent, and instead I keep hearing how great "Niagara" is. How great UNCG or St Francis is. Give Joe Akron credit for knowing his college basketball...those programs (UNCG & USF) are terrible. When do the Zips take their game, and their scheduling, to "the next level?" Next season? The season after? The last two games have been against pathetic opponents. But the Zips played excellent basketball and beat them as they should. For the first time in quite a while, the Zips are nailing open shots. They're showing glimpses of the old Dials/Middleton/Joyce assassin-mentality from the perimeter...and that's with Humpty experiencing a pretty big slump. Inside, the presence of Zeke is absolutely a game-changer. Hell...Conyers may be playing the best basketball of anyone on the team?! This Zips team is rounding into form and gaining confidence. Hey...it could be that our progression is due to our OOC schedule's mix?In random closure, I say - Win a bunch of games and get me a sweet opponent for the Bracket Buster. Then beat the bastards. Wins against Rhode Island, Wyoming, Drake and <insert 14-3 upper mid-major Bracket Buster opponent here> will look nice at season's end. In 2010-11, kick the OOC schedule up a notch.

[Quickzips]

Cap'n is spot on as far as the scheduling. It isn't really the Niagra, Valpo, Drake, UIC, Wyoming kinds of games that are the problem. It certainly isn't the NCState, TexA&M, Rhode Island type games. It's the mid-season games against joke programs like UNCGreensboro, Malone and St. Francis that are the problem. Replace those games with one road game against an NCState/TexasA&M kind of team, one home game against someone like Dayton or VCU and a home game against a Niagra/Valpo/Drake/UIC/Wyoming and I am perfectly fine with the schedule.

[RowdyZip]

Cap'n is spot on as far as the scheduling. It isn't really the Niagra, Valpo, Drake, UIC, Wyoming kinds of games that are the problem. It certainly isn't the NCState, TexA&M, Rhode Island type games. It's the mid-season games against joke programs like UNCGreensboro, Malone and St. Francis that are the problem. Replace those games with one road game against an NCState/TexasA&M kind of team, one home game against someone like Dayton or VCU and a home game against a Niagra/Valpo/Drake/UIC/Wyoming and I am perfectly fine with the schedule.

Greensboro's been a decent team in the not so distant past, right? And I agree with the Malone game following a week hiatus due to finals. Like it's been mentioned, the other mid majors are mid-to-upper level mid-majors. St. Francis is the only team that "sucks." It does happen that Greensboro, UIC, and Valpo are having bad years. Makes the sched look worse than it is.On a side note, did anyone else notice Sunday in the JAR that someone on staff was on the ball when programming the abbreviation for the visitor on the center court scoreboard? St. Francis probably should be abbreviated "STFU," but was smartly listed as "SFU." :D

[johnnyzip84]

Cap'n is spot on as far as the scheduling. It isn't really the Niagra, Valpo, Drake, UIC, Wyoming kinds of games that are the problem. It certainly isn't the NCState, TexA&M, Rhode Island type games. It's the mid-season games against joke programs like UNCGreensboro, Malone and St. Francis that are the problem. Replace those games with one road game against an NCState/TexasA&M kind of team, one home game against someone like Dayton or VCU and a home game against a Niagra/Valpo/Drake/UIC/Wyoming and I am perfectly fine with the schedule.

Greensboro's been a decent team in the not so distant past, right? And I agree with the Malone game following a week hiatus due to finals. Like it's been mentioned, the other mid majors are mid-to-upper level mid-majors. St. Francis is the only team that "sucks." It does happen that Greensboro, UIC, and Valpo are having bad years. Makes the sched look worse than it is.On a side note, did anyone else notice Sunday in the JAR that someone on staff was on the ball when programming the abbreviation for the visitor on the center court scoreboard? St. Francis probably should be abbreviated "STFU," but was smartly listed as "SFU." :D

I think a few Zips, including BMac, may have been saying the former to #40 on a few occasions.The program that might be the biggest underachiever of late has to be Ball St. With their facilities and hoops tradition, there is no reason that they should be as bad as they've been.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Cap'n is spot on as far as the scheduling. It isn't really the Niagra, Valpo, Drake, UIC, Wyoming kinds of games that are the problem. It certainly isn't the NCState, TexA&M, Rhode Island type games. It's the mid-season games against joke programs like UNCGreensboro, Malone and St. Francis that are the problem. Replace those games with one road game against an NCState/TexasA&M kind of team, one home game against someone like Dayton or VCU and a home game against a Niagra/Valpo/Drake/UIC/Wyoming and I am perfectly fine with the schedule.

Greensboro's been a decent team in the not so distant past, right? And I agree with the Malone game following a week hiatus due to finals. Like it's been mentioned, the other mid majors are mid-to-upper level mid-majors. St. Francis is the only team that "sucks." It does happen that Greensboro, UIC, and Valpo are having bad years. Makes the sched look worse than it is.On a side note, did anyone else notice Sunday in the JAR that someone on staff was on the ball when programming the abbreviation for the visitor on the center court scoreboard? St. Francis probably should be abbreviated "STFU," but was smartly listed as "SFU." :D

I think a few Zips, including BMac, may have been saying the former to #40 on a few occasions.The program that might be the biggest underachiever of late has to be Ball St. With their facilities and hoops tradition, there is no reason that they should be as bad as they've been.

Eastern Michigan is right up there. They went from Boykins/Head/Dials to...#321 in the nation.

[Zip Watcher]

Good posts here .. and I'm pretty much in line with CK on the schedule. I think it's close .. could be tweaked a tick upward, but it has a nice mix of schools on it.If I had a magic wand, I think the same teams in a slightly different order might have made this schedule make people more interested. Maybe open with some of the teams we've had in the last week or so, and then roll in Niagara, URI, APSU, the Daytona tourney & A&M .. then they'd have eaten up the dogs earlier on and been more prepared to face NC St & A&M. As it is, they played solidly at A&M .. but they weren't really ready for NC St. I suspect if they played them today rather than a month ago, it might be a different game.Generally, no big complaints from me. I do agree that the current conference makes it hard to schedule for an at-large .. but I also think they are going to win a ton of games this season. The Defense is looking pretty good, as are the ball rotations .. and with the good spacing and rotations, these guys are going to hit a lot of shots.SFU may not have been upper MAC level, but if the Zips play that game against anyone in the MAC at home, they win by 20 every time. B) Go Zips!

[RootforRoo44]

And you guys said UAkronkid was wrong when he called St Francis "MAC caliber." I think St. Francis would have a chance to win the MAC west.

St Francis wouldn't win a MAC West game. There's "MAC West Bad"...and then there's "St Francis PA Bad." It's like comparing eating lima beans, or poop. Lima beans are horrible, but they ain't poop.[Note - I have not tried poop. If anyone has, and has enjoyed it, well...keep it to yourself]

This made me laugh more than anything the entire day.

[GP1]

I have a somewhat different spin on why the Zips need to play larger schools on the road regardless of whether or not they will come to Akron.Five years ago, this was a good schedule based upon what the Zips Athletic Department was doing. Today, we have a new stadium that needs to be paid for. We have a new soccer stadium in the works. We have a new BB arena that is being looked into down the road. At some point, money has to come in to pay for all of this. That point is NOW. The two largest financial outlays are The Big Phone Booth and the fieldhouse. The "building" is over and now they need to bring money to support them.As I see it, the three sports with the best chance to fund the Athletic Department are football, MBB and soccer. Soccer is pulling their financial weight and they can't do more than what they have done this season with the stadium they have. Football set attendance records and they play an OOC schedule that is good for the accountants, but horrible for the program long term.MBasketball is pulling their weight in the winning category. The problem is some of the teams they are playing at home OOC are horrible and nobody is willing to pay money to go see them. The Zips need to bring in more money by mixing in a UNC or some other teams they will more than likely lose to, cash the checks and move on to the other games. I don't think 2-3 games a year like this would hurt the team because they have good coaching and good talent to get past it. If I was the new AD, I would take the scheduling in a different direction regardless of what the coach wanted to do. I'm not saying the football suicide schedule is the answer (in fact, it's moronic), I'm just saying they need to go out and grab some more money.

[lance99]

I have a somewhat different spin on why the Zips need to play larger schools on the road regardless of whether or not they will come to Akron.

I agree to an extent. Do you need to play larger schools? yes you do, but you have to avoid "payday games" unless it is an home-home series.Only time will tell if the start playing stronger schools no matter what venue it is at.Also this is a conference matter. The MAC west is so bad(not just bad in football). They need to do like the other onferences have done and start "enforcing" stronger teams

[Dave in Green]

Good posts here .. and I'm pretty much in line with CK on the schedule. I think it's close .. could be tweaked a tick upward, but it has a nice mix of schools on it.If I had a magic wand, I think the same teams in a slightly different order might have made this schedule make people more interested. Maybe open with some of the teams we've had in the last week or so, and then roll in Niagara, URI, APSU, the Daytona tourney & A&M .. then they'd have eaten up the dogs earlier on and been more prepared to face NC St & A&M. As it is, they played solidly at A&M .. but they weren't really ready for NC St. I suspect if they played them today rather than a month ago, it might be a different game.Generally, no big complaints from me. I do agree that the current conference makes it hard to schedule for an at-large .. but I also think they are going to win a ton of games this season. The Defense is looking pretty good, as are the ball rotations .. and with the good spacing and rotations, these guys are going to hit a lot of shots.SFU may not have been upper MAC level, but if the Zips play that game against anyone in the MAC at home, they win by 20 every time. B) Go Zips!

I agree with your "optimized" scheduling. Only problem is, this is what every team wants. It could be tough scheduling weaker teams early and increasingly stronger teams later, as that would be the optimal schedule for all teams. Bottom line is that the Zips current scheduling is pretty decent for where they've been, but should become increasingly tougher overall as a proof point for the higher level they are trying to achieve. It's a delicate balancing act that is guaranteed not to please all of the fans all of the time.

[ZippyTuba11]

Eastern Michigan is right up there. They went from Boykins/Head/Dials to...#321 in the nation.

I've been asking this quite a while now, and nobody has ever given me an answer. Is there a single sport that Easter Michigan competes in nowadays?

[The Hip Zip]

In basketball terms I measure the MAC against against the Horizon. Not long ago we were well in front of them but I think that we are now looking up at the Horizon. While Butler obviously stands out, I think the Horizon is a much better balanced league than the MAC. GB, Wright St and Milwaukee would all be upper tier teams in the MAC. Detroit has improved greatly this season with the IU transfers as well. We are 2-0 vs the Horizon this year but both Valpo and UIC will be near the basement in their league.I wish we would continue to play CSU, anybody know why we don't play the Vikes anymore ? I'd like to see more Horizon teams on our future non conference schedules. They would be good solid tests and make much sense looking at the reduced travel as well.

[ZachTheZip]

Eastern Michigan is right up there. They went from Boykins/Head/Dials to...#321 in the nation.

I've been asking this quite a while now, and nobody has ever given me an answer. Is there a single sport that Easter Michigan competes in nowadays?

I think they're good at Olympic sports like track and cross country.