Coaches Fired For Mistreatment

[GP1]

ESPN is reporting the USF coach was fired for mistreating a player. This is a much more interesting case than the Texas Tech case because it seems to be cut and dry. The only time I ever saw a coach grab a player in college was when Faust grabbed the facemask of a steroid filled offensive lineman in practice while yelling at him. The lineman took off his helmet while Faust was holding it and threw it at him. I've never heard the Rubber Bowl so silent. I never saw another college coach grab another player. With that said, I can't imagine anyone reporting the case to the University or their daddy as in the case of the Texas Tech player.In the USF case, it seems as if the coach had lost his mind. The player should have actually taken a swing at him. If the guy is that close to the edge, getting out of college coaching would be the best thing for him.The Texas Tech case is more complicated. Leach got what he deserved for putting James in a shed and he is a little crazy. Some time away from coaching would do him some good as well. In reality, the James kid and his father are a complete pain in the ass and Leach probably couldn't take it anymore. Adam James is a spoiled brat and his father is a jack-ass who used his position at ESPN to pressure coaches to play his son more. ESPN won't report it as that because they always protect their own and don't want to look bad. It doesn't excuse what Leach did, but he probably literally couldn't stand the sight of the kid any longer. In a big boys and girls world, parents don't call colege coaches to lobby for more playing time. In reality, Leach should have had a talk with Craig James long ago to put an end to it.Are coaches going crazy or do players now have enough self confidence to stand up to bullies? Should players put up with some level of physical contact from coaches? How does yelling and hitting an adult football player improve his performance?

[g-mann17]

ESPN is reporting the USF coach was fired for mistreating a player. This is a much more interesting case than the Texas Tech case because it seems to be cut and dry. The only time I ever saw a coach grab a player in college was when Faust grabbed the facemask of a steroid filled offensive lineman in practice while yelling at him. The lineman took off his helmet while Faust was holding it and threw it at him. I've never heard the Rubber Bowl so silent. I never saw another college coach grab another player. With that said, I can't imagine anyone reporting the case to the University or their daddy as in the case of the Texas Tech player.In the USF case, it seems as if the coach had lost his mind. The player should have actually taken a swing at him. If the guy is that close to the edge, getting out of college coaching would be the best thing for him.The Texas Tech case is more complicated. Leach got what he deserved for putting James in a shed and he is a little crazy. Some time away from coaching would do him some good as well. In reality, the James kid and his father are a complete pain in the ass and Leach probably couldn't take it anymore. Adam James is a spoiled brat and his father is a jack-ass who used his position at ESPN to pressure coaches to play his son more. ESPN won't report it as that because they always protect their own and don't want to look bad. It doesn't excuse what Leach did, but he probably literally couldn't stand the sight of the kid any longer. In a big boys and girls world, parents don't call colege coaches to lobby for more playing time. In reality, Leach should have had a talk with Craig James long ago to put an end to it.Are coaches going crazy or do players now have enough self confidence to stand up to bullies? Should players put up with some level of physical contact from coaches? How does yelling and hitting an adult football player improve his performance?

I'm going to say neither. Players have become prima dona babies that cry because their shoes weren't cleaned before practice.The Leach case was a matter of a jerk kid, cleared to practice, continuing to be a baby and being sent to the air conditioned equipment room with a grad assistant to look after him. James did not like the players making fun of him and the coaches singling him out for half-assing everything so he got even.I haven't read much on the Leavitt situation. The Kansas coach, was a simple "you f'd up, you do bear crawls" and no one believed the kid when he said the ground was too hot. (It was a mistake to keep him doing it yes, but punishment is justified).Same thing as all those cry babies on the Browns. "We had to take a chartered bus to Hartford, Connecticut" boo-hoo. Bottom line is too many people think they are owed something and should be treated special and then don't expect any accountability for them being lazy.

[indiandad4]

ESPN is reporting the USF coach was fired for mistreating a player. This is a much more interesting case than the Texas Tech case because it seems to be cut and dry. The only time I ever saw a coach grab a player in college was when Faust grabbed the facemask of a steroid filled offensive lineman in practice while yelling at him. The lineman took off his helmet while Faust was holding it and threw it at him. I've never heard the Rubber Bowl so silent. I never saw another college coach grab another player. With that said, I can't imagine anyone reporting the case to the University or their daddy as in the case of the Texas Tech player.In the USF case, it seems as if the coach had lost his mind. The player should have actually taken a swing at him. If the guy is that close to the edge, getting out of college coaching would be the best thing for him.The Texas Tech case is more complicated. Leach got what he deserved for putting James in a shed and he is a little crazy. Some time away from coaching would do him some good as well. In reality, the James kid and his father are a complete pain in the ass and Leach probably couldn't take it anymore. Adam James is a spoiled brat and his father is a jack-ass who used his position at ESPN to pressure coaches to play his son more. ESPN won't report it as that because they always protect their own and don't want to look bad. It doesn't excuse what Leach did, but he probably literally couldn't stand the sight of the kid any longer. In a big boys and girls world, parents don't call colege coaches to lobby for more playing time. In reality, Leach should have had a talk with Craig James long ago to put an end to it.Are coaches going crazy or do players now have enough self confidence to stand up to bullies? Should players put up with some level of physical contact from coaches? How does yelling and hitting an adult football player improve his performance?

In 1984 I went away to college to play football at a small school. Just a week into training camp I had to call my dad cause a coach had grabed me by my facemask and was yelling at me for blowing an assignment. My dad asked me if i was hurt, NO> asked if i missed the assignment,YES> He told me to show up early for practice the next morning and tell the coach that it wouldn't happen again. There are completely to many helicopter parents in sports today. You see them at football practice, basketball practice and baseball fields, and i'm talking about high school and some colleges. Football coaches are crazy. That's why they coach it. As long as they are not being physically abused or emotionally scar'd the parents should shut up and let the coaches do their job while the institution pays their way.

[skip-zip]

Obviously, I think every situation needs to be judged differently. On the surface, if a coach just grabs a guy by the facemask and says something to him, and that's it, I don't think that's a big deal. However, I'm sure there's varying degrees of anger that could turn that action from a simple situation into something more serious.

[Captain Kangaroo]

A buddy of mine played football for Austintown Fitch in the late 70's. Fitch apparently played a terrible 1st half. In the locker room @ halftime, the coach grabbed my buddy's face mask...pulled his head to the bench...and tore the team a new a-hole while sitting on my bud's head the entire intermission.A lot of these coaches played ball in the 70's & 80's. I'm sure some of the discipline they deal out is the same thing they got during their playing days. But kids today are a little different. And there are more lawyers, the Internet, cell phone cameras etc. Coaching is different now-a-days.

[Zipmeister]

Obviously, I think every situation needs to be judged differently. On the surface, if a coach just grabs a guy by the facemask and says something to him, and that's it, I don't think that's a big deal. However, I'm sure there's varying degrees of anger that could turn that action from a simple situation into something more serious.

I disagree. Judging every situation differently is likely to be inequitable. If one situation is identical to another situation, I believe they both should be judged the same.

[Z.I.P.]

ESPN is reporting the USF coach was fired for mistreating a player. This is a much more interesting case than the Texas Tech case because it seems to be cut and dry. The only time I ever saw a coach grab a player in college was when Faust grabbed the facemask of a steroid filled offensive lineman in practice while yelling at him. The lineman took off his helmet while Faust was holding it and threw it at him. I've never heard the Rubber Bowl so silent. I never saw another college coach grab another player. With that said, I can't imagine anyone reporting the case to the University or their daddy as in the case of the Texas Tech player.In the USF case, it seems as if the coach had lost his mind. The player should have actually taken a swing at him. If the guy is that close to the edge, getting out of college coaching would be the best thing for him.The Texas Tech case is more complicated. Leach got what he deserved for putting James in a shed and he is a little crazy. Some time away from coaching would do him some good as well. In reality, the James kid and his father are a complete pain in the ass and Leach probably couldn't take it anymore. Adam James is a spoiled brat and his father is a jack-ass who used his position at ESPN to pressure coaches to play his son more. ESPN won't report it as that because they always protect their own and don't want to look bad. It doesn't excuse what Leach did, but he probably literally couldn't stand the sight of the kid any longer. In a big boys and girls world, parents don't call colege coaches to lobby for more playing time. In reality, Leach should have had a talk with Craig James long ago to put an end to it.Are coaches going crazy or do players now have enough self confidence to stand up to bullies? Should players put up with some level of physical contact from coaches? How does yelling and hitting an adult football player improve his performance?

Are we talking about American football, or Marine Corp boot camp? Or is there any difference? I think this is a cultural problem -- and that in the US at least, some people have to use violence to express their machismo. In other countries, if you blow a play (like the Iraq soccer team) Saddam's son shoots you.BTW -- I read now that the USF player's father retracted most of the story, and said the coach only grabbed his son by the shoulder pads. See you in court.

[g-mann17]

Obviously, I think every situation needs to be judged differently. On the surface, if a coach just grabs a guy by the facemask and says something to him, and that's it, I don't think that's a big deal. However, I'm sure there's varying degrees of anger that could turn that action from a simple situation into something more serious.

I disagree. Judging every situation differently is likely to be inequitable. If one situation is identical to another situation, I believe they both should be judged the same.

And English Common Law would agree with you.

[zippyrifle32]

Hmmm... there's a lot of "Adam James is a whiny pussy" talk on the internet, but I've seen a lot of quotes from other team members not supporting the coach either. There is no reason a coach should lay hands on an athlete. Not saying that athletes are always harmed when it happens, but there is no reason to do so. There are other ways good coaches can get through to their athletes. That being said, yelling and screaming (different from speaking in a loud voice) are rather unnecessary too. Those tactics were used on today's coaches when they were athletes, so they use them on their athletes. It happens and I'm not saying it's always negative or needs to stop, but coaches don't have to be that way to get their team to win. I believe there is a lot more abuse happening in college athletics then what is being reported and I'm happy that some of it is at least being investigated. I don't know enough of the details to know if Leach deserved to be suspended/fired or not. I don't believe the one side I get to read in the press.

[InTheZone]

These wimps and their parents are just a byproduct of the culture we've seen develop in the last twenty years. We've raised a generation of pussies because during their childhood it was no longer PC to teach a boy what it meant to be a man. They grew up thinking boys and girls are all the same and what do you know, they grow up to act like girls. Were any of these kids physically damaged?? I don't see anything wrong with a coach grabbing your facemask from time to time or getting a little physical with his players. Football is a violent, passionate, and TOUGH game, the closest simulation in our society to WAR, and coaches getting physical with their players has been a part of the game forever, just like sergents who get physical with the men they're training for war, and if you can't handle the nature of the game then by all means please don't play. And if you do play, don't go crying to daddy because a coach grabbed your facemask. My senior year of high school as the team captain I played absolutely horrible in the first half of an important game and I was letting my team down by not playing with a sense of urgency and not being mentally locked into the game. My coach came in the lockerroom, ripped me a new one in front of the entire team, and shoved me...no... LAUNCHED ME.... into a locker with both hands. Did it hurt me? Hell no it didn't, I had pads on. Did I go cry to my daddy about it? Hell no, my dad would've said "Is that all he did?" after the way I played that half. How did I respond? I got PISSED AS HELL and went out and had one of the best halfs of football I ever had in my playing career and helped my team win the game. Was that coach abusive? No he wasn't, he saw how I wasn't playing anywhere close to my potential, that I was letting my team down, and he got my attention in the most sure way he could. The man is still very close to me and like a 2nd father.

[zippyrifle32]

My coach came in the lockerroom, ripped me a new one in front of the entire team, and shoved me...no... LAUNCHED ME.... into a locker with both hands. Did it hurt me? Hell no it didn't, I had pads on. Did I go cry to my daddy about it? Hell no, my dad would've said "Is that all he did?" after the way I played that half. How did I respond? I got PISSED AS HELL and went out and had one of the best halfs of football I ever had in my playing career and helped my team win the game. Was that coach abusive? No he wasn't, he saw how I wasn't playing anywhere close to my potential, that I was letting my team down, and he got my attention in the most sure way he could. The man is still very close to me and like a 2nd father.

uh, yeah. That's an abusive coach.Growing up to be a woman isn't such a bad thing either.

[InTheZone]

My coach came in the lockerroom, ripped me a new one in front of the entire team, and shoved me...no... LAUNCHED ME.... into a locker with both hands. Did it hurt me? Hell no it didn't, I had pads on. Did I go cry to my daddy about it? Hell no, my dad would've said "Is that all he did?" after the way I played that half. How did I respond? I got PISSED AS HELL and went out and had one of the best halfs of football I ever had in my playing career and helped my team win the game. Was that coach abusive? No he wasn't, he saw how I wasn't playing anywhere close to my potential, that I was letting my team down, and he got my attention in the most sure way he could. The man is still very close to me and like a 2nd father.

uh, yeah. That's an abusive coach.Growing up to be a woman isn't such a bad thing either.

Sweetheart you don't understand the inside world of football and never will, nor a boy's development into a man, and that's not your fault, but it was the furthest thing from abuse. Abuse is something that leaves an individual scarred. I was far from scarred from that experience, in fact, it inspired me to one of the greatest moments in my athletic career. Far from being scarred, I'm thankful to my coach for what he did.

[zippyrifle32]

I will admit I will never understand a boy's development into a man, but I did play and letter in football in high school. D line too, not as some pansy kicker.

[GP1]

Abuse is something that leaves an individual scarred.

Interesting original post on this topic. I always like to read posts written late Friday and Saturday nights. Now we know Kellen "The Soldier" Winslow is ITZ.The feminization of the American male is a huge problem in this country. I agree totally.I still get a kick out of the fact that Adam James calls his father to complain about things. He is a college football player and an adult for crying out loud. He would have been laughed off the team in the Faust Era.Maybe you were scarred by your high school coach. After all, you think football and war are nearly the same thing. Perhaps it left a mental scar. Football has nothing to do with war. Football is a game where everyone gets to go home after the game and bang their girlfriends. War is not a game and people get killed doing it. War is a game where young men come home at the age of 20 and are so mentally harmed from the horrors they can no longer function in normal socitey. Any Drill Instructor that would put a hand on a new recruit would get fired. The following things are more like war than football.1. A police officer working east Cleveland.2. A good high school kid walking home from school in east Cleveland.3. A pizza deliveryman in east Cleveland delivering a pizza.4. Tiger Woods being struck by a 9-iron after admitting to his absolutely hot wife that he was banging every Las Vegas skank he could stick his pecker into.

[Zipmeister]

I will admit I will never understand a boy's development into a man, but I did play and letter in football in high school. D line too, not as some pansy kicker.

More importantly did any of the guys ask you to the prom?

[ZachTheZip]

They are Division I athletes. The highest level of collegiate competition. If they can't handle it, then maybe they should transfer to a small D-III school where they're still coddled like they're in high school.

[Hilltopper]

I've had more than one irate mother call me after I fired her adult child. It's always the same, how dare you fire my little Johnny, he is perfect. All I do is reply that little Johnny is an adult now, and moma doesn't have any thing to say about it anymore. It's really kind of sad.

[cornbread]

I personally like the idea that coaches are held to the same standards of society. I do not get why the idea that a punishing, morale destroying demeanor is better approach to kids/ young adults than something more even-handed.

[InTheZone]

Abuse is something that leaves an individual scarred.

Interesting original post on this topic. I always like to read posts written late Friday and Saturday nights. Now we know Kellen "The Soldier" Winslow is ITZ.The feminization of the American male is a huge problem in this country. I agree totally.I still get a kick out of the fact that Adam James calls his father to complain about things. He is a college football player and an adult for crying out loud. He would have been laughed off the team in the Faust Era.Maybe you were scarred by your high school coach. After all, you think football and war are nearly the same thing. Perhaps it left a mental scar. Football has nothing to do with war. Football is a game where everyone gets to go home after the game and bang their girlfriends. War is not a game and people get killed doing it. War is a game where young men come home at the age of 20 and are so mentally harmed from the horrors they can no longer function in normal socitey. Any Drill Instructor that would put a hand on a new recruit would get fired. The following things are more like war than football.1. A police officer working east Cleveland.2. A good high school kid walking home from school in east Cleveland.3. A pizza deliveryman in east Cleveland delivering a pizza.4. Tiger Woods being struck by a 9-iron after admitting to his absolutely hot wife that he was banging every Las Vegas skank he could stick his pecker into.

GP, I definitely did not mean to come across as comparing the horrors and and significance of War to that of football. I was more using the analogy to show the nature of the game in that it is the closest thing to SIMULATED War that our society has. Sports, after all, were developed to prepare men for war. Football is especially close to this model as no other game requires the teamwork, togetherness, and physical and mental preparation that football does. As for your assertation that no hands are laid on men being trained for service in our military, as a close friend to multiple ex-Marines and a NAVY Seal whose heard a few stories about what they went through in training, I respectfully disagree. As for basic military training (Army enlistment), I have heard from a few guys I used to play with that that's pretty light, and anyone who's ever made it through an August football camp can breeze through boot camp.

[InTheZone]

I will admit I will never understand a boy's development into a man, but I did play and letter in football in high school. D line too, not as some pansy kicker.

Thats a travesty of society in my opinion. If I'd ever been asked to line up across from a woman and get violent with her, I would've walked off the field and refused to play. If my son is ever asked to do that, he will not play in the game.

[zippyrifle32]

I will admit I will never understand a boy's development into a man, but I did play and letter in football in high school. D line too, not as some pansy kicker.

Thats a travesty of society in my opinion. If I'd ever been asked to line up across from a woman and get violent with her, I would've walked off the field and refused to play. If my son is ever asked to do that, he will not play in the game.

And then your coach would have grabbed you by the face mask, asked you why you're too much of a pussy to play against a girl, then stuck his foot up your ass before you planted it on the bench. But THAT part would be ok... and a comment like that makes you sound a little vanilla ( ) and for that I feel sorry for you.

[zippyrifle32]

another coach hitting a player

COLUMBIA, Mo. (AP)—Kansas State’s Frank Martin is a fiery old-school screamer who expects his players to play with the same kind of passion he coaches with.That passion got the better of Martin on Saturday—and he feels bad about it.Caught up in the heat of a tight road game, Martin hit senior Chris Merriewether on the arm with the back of his hand late in the No. 11 Wildcats’ 74-68 loss to Missouri. Martin wasted little time in apologizing, telling reporters he was wrong before taking questions during his postgame news conference.Other Popular Sports Stories“That’s a mistake on my part,” Martin said. “I’m an old-school guy, but I understand the times are real sensitive now. I love him. I don’t know what to tell you. It’s wrong on my part and is completely out of line and has no part in the game. I need to apologize for that.”Martin’s swipe came during a timeout with 1:17 left after a turnover by Merriewether led to a foul at the other end.Before Marcus Denmon hit one of two free throws to put Missouri up 66-63, Martin called timeout and gathered his team in front of the bench. He immediately started screaming at Merriewether and flicked the back of his hand at the senior, striking him on the arm with his fingers.The crowd at Kansas State’s end of the floor reacted and Martin, realizing he had made a mistake, flipped his hand again, appearing as if he were trying to high-five Merriewether.Martin sought out Merriewether in the locker room after the game and apologized for popping him.“It was just in the heat of the moment; big game, lot of heated plays going on,” Merriewether said. “I mean, he hit me in the arm, it was nothing serious. (Teammate) Jacob Pullen came back right after and he hit me in the arm, too. It really wasn’t too much. I trust Frank and Frank trusts me and it was just a heat of the moment-type deal. It’s not a big deal at all.”It may not be a big deal to Merriewether, but Martin’s swipe is sure to get some attention at a time when coaches are being punished for abusing players.Kansas football coach Mark Mangino resigned last month amid allegations that he mistreated his players. Texas Tech football coach Mike Leach was fired in December after he was accused of forcing an injured player to stand in a dark shed. South Florida fired football coach Jim Leavitt on Friday, saying he grabbed a player by the throat, slapped him in the face and lied about it.Pullen didn’t believe Martin’s moment was in the same category.“I think people really looked at that wrong,” Pullen said. “I don’t think Frank really hit him like you would hit somebody if you wanted to fight them. He hit him as like ‘Let’s go.’ Frank is an enthused person, he’s emotional on the sidelines and that’s why I think everybody came here to play for him, because we knew we had an emotional coach who would get out there just like we do.”Martin has never been accused of inappropriate behavior with his players and Kansas State athletic director John Currie didn’t seem overly concerned after meeting with him and Merriewether following the team’s return to Manhattan on Saturday night.“Coach Martin clearly understands his contact with Chris at the end of the game was unacceptable, regardless of the emotion of the moment,” Currie said in a statement. “I am proud of coach Martin for immediately apologizing and I expect that there will be no further such incidents.”

[Ryno aka Menace]

My coach came in the lockerroom, ripped me a new one in front of the entire team, and shoved me...no... LAUNCHED ME.... into a locker with both hands. Did it hurt me? Hell no it didn't, I had pads on. Did I go cry to my daddy about it? Hell no, my dad would've said "Is that all he did?" after the way I played that half. How did I respond? I got PISSED AS HELL and went out and had one of the best halfs of football I ever had in my playing career and helped my team win the game. Was that coach abusive? No he wasn't, he saw how I wasn't playing anywhere close to my potential, that I was letting my team down, and he got my attention in the most sure way he could. The man is still very close to me and like a 2nd father.

uh, yeah. That's an abusive coach.Growing up to be a woman isn't such a bad thing either.

Sweetheart you don't understand the inside world of football and never will, nor a boy's development into a man, and that's not your fault, but it was the furthest thing from abuse. Abuse is something that leaves an individual scarred. I was far from scarred from that experience, in fact, it inspired me to one of the greatest moments in my athletic career. Far from being scarred, I'm thankful to my coach for what he did.

I gotta agree with this statement!!! But I will say this I coach football ages 5-8 yes it is tackle at that age. As a coach you also have to know your players, now most of my players I can't even raise my voice at cause they will cry instantly, I can't explain it, but the kids that I can "yell at" when they aren't playing well, are by far the best players. Not that's not to say that will change, and I do yell or get loud very little becaue this is a new generation of kids, kids raised by t.v. and xbox. You can't run them to much cause of heat, hell some of these 7 and 8 year olds already have personal trainers!! Get this the kid told me since he has a trainer he doesn't have to run with the team, I called his dad over and said right in front of both of them he is either on this team or he isn't if he is he doesn't everything he teammates does period.

[Class of 82]

Are coaches going crazy or do players now have enough self confidence to stand up to bullies? Should players put up with some level of physical contact from coaches? How does yelling and hitting an adult football player improve his performance?

There has always been a significant subset of coaches in all sports at all levels who see intimidation or humiliation as legitimate tools of motivation or discipline. I think perhaps the question is one of degree. Are there circumstances where yelling at a kid not only can be wholely warranted but entirely constructive? Sure. Nearly all of us probably can relate a story where getting an energetic earful proved helpful in our development as human beings.But there is no question in my mind that there are a great number of coaches who cross the same blurred lines that some parents do, where what might be intended as something constructive escalates into something that can only be described as abuse.Where those blurred lines lie is not something easily described or agreed upon, but I will say that the coach or the parent that leans more than rarely on the intimidation/humiliation crutch is treading some very dangerous territory when it comes to developing young people in a healthy and constructive way. And if they don't have other effective methods for motivation and instruction in their toolbox, then they can only be described as incompetent boobs.Just my two cents.

[GP1]

Are there circumstances where yelling at a kid not only can be wholely warranted but entirely constructive? Sure. Nearly all of us probably can relate a story where getting an energetic earful proved helpful in our development as human beings.

Good post.I think there is a big difference between high school and college football. High school kids have trouble focusing for many reasons and a good yelling at does them good.My high school football coach is in the Ohio HS Coaches Hall of Fame. In my three years in HS, I only lost in five games. Our coach was a yeller, but I never once saw him strike a player. We had really good teams. When things were going well, he yelled even more. When things weren't going well, he was calm. He always figured we had enough people patting us on the back when things were going well that we didn't need that from him.My college coach was an excellent coach on the field and in the film room. Maybe that's why he is in the NFL. Anyhow, he was not a yeller. It was very simple. He did a good job of coaching everyone. The best person won the starting job until someone was better. His saying was, "You're only as good as your last performance." If someone was better, they played. It made his life very simple and everyone knew where they stood with him. The next thing to happen is this. A coach will hit a player during practice or a game. The player will blast the coach in the face and claim self-defense. The coach will be fired. I don't have a problem with any of that. When an adult hits another adult, one should defend their honor and self. What makes Adam James such a sissy is he never stood up to the coach or approached the coach in a manly way to discuss playing time, etc. Leach hated James because he was "soft and lazy", not because he was hurt. Rumors are the coaches evaluation was correct and James knew what the coach thought of him. Instead of playing harder or asking the coach how he could get better, he would call his daddy and complain. The next coach at Texas Tech should quietly move James out of the program.I just hope that claiming coach abuse doesn't become witch hunting.