Big Zip Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I've been thinking about this post for a few weeks and have hesitated to post it because I'm sure I will get blasted. The basketball program continues to sit on the edge of being real good year in and year out -- yet year in and year out we get right to the edge and nothing. We lose in the MAC Tourney, we don't win again in the post season etc. I would assume the goal every season is to make it to the NCAA Tourney and then win games in the NCAA Tourney. This program is in much better shape than when KD took it over, but the question at some point has to become is he the guy who is going to get us the next step. Look at our Soccer program. We were all pretty happy with Ken Lola and disappointed when he left. Caleb has come in and I would guess everyone is pretty happy Ken left because Caleb has taken us to the next level. Are we getting close to that situation with our basketball program. Will KD ever be able to do anything other than bring us a 20 game winning season (in a shitty conference with a soft schedule) and then nothing else? Would you trade Gary Waters for KD? I'm not trying to run KD out of town, but I feel like we have been on this merry go round before and I'm pretty sure how it ends. This team will most likely not make it out of Cleveland and I'm guessing will lose in the MAC Championship. Is that good enough for the people on this board? There was a time on this board where we talked about wanting to be the next Gonzaga. At this point I'll settle for less than Gonzaga....give me the next OU that upsets a team in the Tourney. The next CSU that does the same or even god forbid the next Can't. 20 wins, no MAC Championship and no post season win isn't good enough for me -- is it for all of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziptrumpet87 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't know if it's all on KD. We've had some success in the post season. Is it more that we are losing better recruits due to facilties? Or losing good assistants that help overcome KD's weaknesses because we can't pay them enough? I'm inclined to think upgrading facilities brings in more cash due to better fan atmosphere (and possibly better corporate support) as well as helping with recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Trying to compare NCAA basketball to NCAA soccer is not a good comparison. Akron can compete at a high level in soccer because they can still compete financially with the big name schools. Soccer is still a second tier sport to many fans in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Watcher Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't think satisfied = complacent. My wife is a great cook. And while I'm satisfied every night with what she is able to whip up after a full day at the office, I still very much look forward to the opportunities to enjoy what Michael Symon or Jonathan Sawyer has to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickzips Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Too many external factors that are really out of KD's control right now. Poor facilities and an apathetic conference being the two biggest. You've made the comparison to Gary Waters with Cleveland State. At Cleveland State men's hoops in the marquee sport. As a result they have better facilities, they get a larger piece of the athletic budget, they are in a conference where basketball is emphasized to a much larger degree. All of that gives Waters an edge up. Personally, I think Keith has done a tremendous job given all of those issues. There is still more that can be done, but I trust KD leading us in that direction more than starting fresh with an un-proven coach. You've made the comparison to the soccer team with Lolla vs. Porter, I'll make another comparison that is probably more relevant and that is to Toledo. They had by all indications a very successful coach who had the team in contention for the conference title most years in Stan Joplin. They weren't satisfied with that (and some other issues) and canned the guy. They are still trying to dig out from that decision and continue to be one of the worst teams in D-I. Keith has made some adjustments to his recruiting style (going after more athletic players, taking some shots on transfers and non-qualifiers) and his on-court philosophy (playing more zone defense, inserting guys like Abreu and Diggs who like to attack the basket off the dribble more). I'll give him some time and trust that he can make it work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 What I would LIKE to think is -- KD himself was not satisfied with how things were progressing...hence why he sort of blew things up at the end of last season. It remains to be see what Walsh, Gilliam, Treadwell, Harney, Justice, etc bring to the table. They're all supposed to be above the level of player we've become accustomed to seeing. Supposed to be.... I have been fooled in the past by alleged "savior" recruits and transfers (Hipsher, Tarver, Conyers, Carson...the list is long) so I am beyond leery of upcoming "New KD Era." But he made the change...the "Tiny Guard Era" seems to be over. I guess we all need to see how it plays out on the court. More so than any other time, it will be interesting to see how KD coaches @ The Q. All the top teams are of equal talent. Strategy and substitutions are HUGE this year. That, and motivating his guys to cease with their uncanny Loyola Marymount defensive impersonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Is it more that we are losing better recruits due to facilties? Or losing good assistants that help overcome KD's weaknesses because we can't pay them enough? I'm inclined to think upgrading facilities brings in more cash due to better fan atmosphere (and possibly better corporate support) as well as helping with recruiting. Facilities are not the problem. Can't State has a horrible arena and they seem to do well year in and year out. If facilities were that big of a deal, we wouldn't lose a MAC football game. I thought we would have learned that lesson by now. I'm always patient with coaches. As long as KD continues to win 20 games, regardless of how it is done, the blame will never be pointed in his direction. Personally, I think he focuses on the wrong things, but we can talk more about that after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip-zip Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Of course, there's always the risk of a slide backwards. And I like being in a position to create this kind of excitement every year. In fact, I'm getting quite used to it. And I think KD is going to be our coach for a long time, so if we want to make it to another level, I think it will only happen because our current coach takes chances on different kinds of players and possibly more creative strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Who is it that's not satisfied? Us or the team? I can assure you that as frustrated as we are the team is 10x more at not winning the MAC. But its ultimately up to the players to win the big games, or at least not lose games they should win. But there are some things we can control. Things that do affect the team's performance. Things like crowd intensity. Remember how the Soccer stadium got renovated? It started with some fans going to the athletic department and coming up with a fund we could donate to, and when momentum picked up sponsors stepped in and helped things move forward faster than anticipated. This all happened before we saw blueprints or anything like that. We can do the same with the JAR. Show that we want change and are willing to do something about it, however little we might be able to do, with any luck a sponsor or two will step up and help. They might even just be waiting to see something specific without being the one to start it and risk not gaining support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxZIP Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Quincey, Alex, and Zeke will be the core of the new ZIPS for years to come and are each very different players than have traditionally played at Akron. It will also be nice to have Brett back to add stability and a leadership presence. I think Zips basketball is going in the right direction under KD. He is an Akron guy and would probably resist all but the strongest offers to move on. KD is stability and he is the future. Constant improvement is th name of the game here. Keep getting better and keep being the KD players and Akronites respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I've been thinking about this post for a few weeks and have hesitated to post it because I'm sure I will get blasted. The basketball program continues to sit on the edge of being real good year in and year out -- yet year in and year out we get right to the edge and nothing. We lose in the MAC Tourney, we don't win again in the post season etc. I would assume the goal every season is to make it to the NCAA Tourney and then win games in the NCAA Tourney. This program is in much better shape than when KD took it over, but the question at some point has to become is he the guy who is going to get us the next step. Look at our Soccer program. We were all pretty happy with Ken Lola and disappointed when he left. Caleb has come in and I would guess everyone is pretty happy Ken left because Caleb has taken us to the next level. Are we getting close to that situation with our basketball program. Will KD ever be able to do anything other than bring us a 20 game winning season (in a shitty conference with a soft schedule) and then nothing else? Would you trade Gary Waters for KD? I'm not trying to run KD out of town, but I feel like we have been on this merry go round before and I'm pretty sure how it ends. This team will most likely not make it out of Cleveland and I'm guessing will lose in the MAC Championship. Is that good enough for the people on this board? There was a time on this board where we talked about wanting to be the next Gonzaga. At this point I'll settle for less than Gonzaga....give me the next OU that upsets a team in the Tourney. The next CSU that does the same or even god forbid the next Can't. 20 wins, no MAC Championship and no post season win isn't good enough for me -- is it for all of you? What's so great about CSU? They played a crappy schedule, had zero marquee wins this year, and have one postseason win in five years under Waters (08-09 in the NCAA Tournament). I don't get why so many treat Gary Waters like he's some great coach. I'd take Dambrot if I had to pick the two. To answer the question, I can tell you with 100% certainty that your exact point hit Dambrot last year. He never wanted to take on JUCO or guys with questionable academics before, but realized he needed to change that. He never used to recruit raw athletes, but has started to. Dambrot is fed up with getting close but not making the leap. That's why he went out and got guys like Treadwell, Harney, Gilliam, and Diggs. That's why one of the coaches spent so much time in Puerto Rico building a relationship with Alex Abreu. Even Josh Egner is a different personality type from typical KD players. Dambrot has tweaked his approach, and has done exactly what you're wanting him to do...you just haven't seen it - yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Keith has done a great job thus far, looking at his record, it would be hard to argue otherwise. However... He clearly cannot recruit. Yes, he pulled Zeke, but how many standouts have we had that can just take over a game? I can't recall any... But as the above person said, I thin Keith has realized that he needs to really upgrade how he recruits if he wants to take this team to the next level. Will this payoff? I certainly hope so.. Then the schedule is next. 20+ wins is great, but getting the wins with the schedule we have really isn't that impressive. We play an awful schedule year in and year out. Nobody wants to see the team play the crap teams that they do, so nobody goes to the games. Good conference games as well as the Can't game, fans show up. People aren't going to show up for the teams that have been visiting the Jar recently. I would hope to see a sharp improvement, because the being on the cusp thing is going to put the pressure on Keith to really perform or replacements will be an option for the new AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mivid12 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 a step in the right direction would be to get to the ncaa tourney & win a game or two & get some attention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 He never used to recruit raw athletes, but has started to. Can he do anything with one though? We'll see...we all know it's a building process..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZip0510 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Keith has done a great job thus far, looking at his record, it would be hard to argue otherwise. However... He clearly cannot recruit. Yes, he pulled Zeke, but how many standouts have we had that can just take over a game? I can't recall any... But as the above person said, I thin Keith has realized that he needs to really upgrade how he recruits if he wants to take this team to the next level. Will this payoff? I certainly hope so.. Then the schedule is next. 20+ wins is great, but getting the wins with the schedule we have really isn't that impressive. We play an awful schedule year in and year out. Nobody wants to see the team play the crap teams that they do, so nobody goes to the games. Good conference games as well as the Can't game, fans show up. People aren't going to show up for the teams that have been visiting the Jar recently. I would hope to see a sharp improvement, because the being on the cusp thing is going to put the pressure on Keith to really perform or replacements will be an option for the new AD. I don't agree with this statement at all. If he couldn't recruit, he wouldn't have a program that has reached the championship game of its conference tournament four years in a row. Dambrot builds TEAMS, not one man shows. In this conference, TEAMS win, not star players. I'd also argue your point that he has never developed a player that could take over a game - Jeremiah Wood (who has had a pretty good career overseas) was pretty dominant in the 2008 MAC Tournament. I have a feeling some of you won't appreciate Dambrot until he's gone (which I hope is a long, long time from now). He runs a clean program that produces quality young men, and is doing pretty well on the court as well. With a win tomorrow, the program will have six consecutive 20+ win seasons, which is a difficult feat with any schedule. His program has reached the conference final for four straight years, winning one, being robbed of another, and going into overtime for a third. His team has an excellent chance of winning the conference title again this year. He's also shown - with the recruitment of Abreu, Diggs, Gilliam, Treadwell, and Harney, he's shown that - despite his success - he's willing to change if it means getting even better. If he's replaced, it will be a gargantuan mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 He runs a clean program that produces quality young men, and is doing pretty well on the court as well. With a win tomorrow, the program will have six consecutive 20+ win seasons, which is a difficult feat with any schedule. His program has reached the conference final for four straight years, winning one, being robbed of another, and going into overtime for a third. There is no doubt this is a good program, but not a great program. I'm not sure winning 20 with our schedule is all that difficult. I'd like to address the last sentence. I've always said KD is the Bill Cowher of the MAC. Cowher was a defensive/running game oriented coach who blew more AFC Championship games than he should have because of that. KD is the same way. The last sentence could also read...."His program has reached the conference final for four straight years, winning ONLY one, allowing a completely inferior Miami team to hang around and beat them, and going into overtime for a third (whatever that is supposed to mean)." Some said Bill Cowher could never be replaced by a better coach. I would argue the Steelers in fact DID replace him with a better coach with fresh and modern ideas, especially on offense. KD doesn't deserve to be fired, but never say he couldn't be replaced by someone better. There is always someone out there better. The only problem would be allowing our flunky of an athletic director to hire the next coach. If the hiring decision came down to Coach K or Dan Hip (or some other guy who worked with him somewhere out there), he would pick Hip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kangaroo Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 KD doesn't deserve to be fired, but never say he couldn't be replaced by someone better. There is always someone out there better. The only problem would be allowing our flunky of an athletic director to hire the next coach. K.e.n.t. is a hippie school in the middle of a cornfield, and they have no problem finding one 20-game winner after another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Zip Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Perhaps the better question for this thread pertains to our expectations at the Zips faithful for this program. I do agree KD has made some adjustments and I'm very interested in seeing them play out -- hopefully for the positive. I will say I'm not satisfied with 20 win seasons and failure in the post season. I was here for back end of the Huggins era and the subsequent Coleman Crawford era and the Hipsher era....I've seen bad basketball. For some to automatically assume the risk of a new coach is too great because Toledo failed is ludicrous. Ultimately my dream for Akron athletics is to get the hell out of the MAC and in a better conference. The Horizon League is a better basketball conference -- who cares if they don't have football. They could probably start playing football in that conference and be at the MAC level in a matter of years. Ultimately when you look at our athletic programs we have soccer and a bunch of not much. Football is a joke and basketball is the one place I think we should have an opportunity to dominate. The conference sucks and we need to capitalize on the ineptitude of the other schools. Finally I wasn't comparing soccer to basketball...I was comparing the situation with the coaches. Lola was great, but Caleb has been amazing. I can't imagine there is a person on this board who thought this program was going to get better after Lola left....I know my hope was we wouldn't slide back. It turns out we did get better and Lola leaving was the best thing to happen to the soccer program. I would support KD playing out this contract, but without significant progress I would be okay with him riding off into the sunset after it is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burrdie Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I have to agree with you completely, I am a 70 year old avid alumni and fan. I have not missed a game in many years, either on line, in person or the radio. I don't believe KD can take it to the next level. Not sure why, it is not talent, we have talent it is more the coaching. NC has lots of freshmen yet they are contenders. I have to believe it is the coaching staff. It is not just skills that are taught but also working together, chemistry. As a psychologist, i have to think there is more to this team then not playing well They are such a good team and should and could be doing great things. The first few minutes of the Can't game they LOOKED like a great team, then it stopped, why? I think the soccer example is a good one! I've been thinking about this post for a few weeks and have hesitated to post it because I'm sure I will get blasted. The basketball program continues to sit on the edge of being real good year in and year out -- yet year in and year out we get right to the edge and nothing. We lose in the MAC Tourney, we don't win again in the post season etc. I would assume the goal every season is to make it to the NCAA Tourney and then win games in the NCAA Tourney. This program is in much better shape than when KD took it over, but the question at some point has to become is he the guy who is going to get us the next step. Look at our Soccer program. We were all pretty happy with Ken Lola and disappointed when he left. Caleb has come in and I would guess everyone is pretty happy Ken left because Caleb has taken us to the next level. Are we getting close to that situation with our basketball program. Will KD ever be able to do anything other than bring us a 20 game winning season (in a shitty conference with a soft schedule) and then nothing else? Would you trade Gary Waters for KD? I'm not trying to run KD out of town, but I feel like we have been on this merry go round before and I'm pretty sure how it ends. This team will most likely not make it out of Cleveland and I'm guessing will lose in the MAC Championship. Is that good enough for the people on this board? There was a time on this board where we talked about wanting to be the next Gonzaga. At this point I'll settle for less than Gonzaga....give me the next OU that upsets a team in the Tourney. The next CSU that does the same or even god forbid the next Can't. 20 wins, no MAC Championship and no post season win isn't good enough for me -- is it for all of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I have to agree with you completely, I am a 70 year old avid alumni and fan. I have not missed a game in many years, either on line, in person or the radio.Welcome to ZipsNation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Keith has done a great job thus far, looking at his record, it would be hard to argue otherwise. However... He clearly cannot recruit. Yes, he pulled Zeke, but how many standouts have we had that can just take over a game? I can't recall any... But as the above person said, I thin Keith has realized that he needs to really upgrade how he recruits if he wants to take this team to the next level. Will this payoff? I certainly hope so.. Then the schedule is next. 20+ wins is great, but getting the wins with the schedule we have really isn't that impressive. We play an awful schedule year in and year out. Nobody wants to see the team play the crap teams that they do, so nobody goes to the games. Good conference games as well as the Can't game, fans show up. People aren't going to show up for the teams that have been visiting the Jar recently. I would hope to see a sharp improvement, because the being on the cusp thing is going to put the pressure on Keith to really perform or replacements will be an option for the new AD. I don't agree with this statement at all. If he couldn't recruit, he wouldn't have a program that has reached the championship game of its conference tournament four years in a row. Dambrot builds TEAMS, not one man shows. In this conference, TEAMS win, not star players. I'd also argue your point that he has never developed a player that could take over a game - Jeremiah Wood (who has had a pretty good career overseas) was pretty dominant in the 2008 MAC Tournament. I have a feeling some of you won't appreciate Dambrot until he's gone (which I hope is a long, long time from now). He runs a clean program that produces quality young men, and is doing pretty well on the court as well. With a win tomorrow, the program will have six consecutive 20+ win seasons, which is a difficult feat with any schedule. His program has reached the conference final for four straight years, winning one, being robbed of another, and going into overtime for a third. His team has an excellent chance of winning the conference title again this year. He's also shown - with the recruitment of Abreu, Diggs, Gilliam, Treadwell, and Harney, he's shown that - despite his success - he's willing to change if it means getting even better. If he's replaced, it will be a gargantuan mistake. If you are content with seasons like we have had, then yes, he can recruit to compete in the MAC. He clearly cannot recruit to take this beyond what we are now. He reeled in Zeke and he hasn't developed at all. He was supposed to be one of the best bigs out of HS and he can barely make a difference in the MAC, that's not a good sign. Certainly Keith has done great things since taking over a program that wasn't very good. But as others have said, is there somebody that can take this team to the next level? Regardless of what happens in the MAC tournament this year, the follow two years will be very critical to Keith's future. He has all these transfers and young talent, if he can't put it together with that, then you do have to look to see if there are other possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachTheZip Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 We have no patience. Can't we at least wait a year to see whether Dambrot's big plan with the new-look players works out? There's supposed to be high-major talent coming in at multiple positions. The kind needed to compete "beyond the MAC". Can't we wait and see how that looks? It's dumb to complain at this point. Right now we should be focused on cheering the team and current players to a MAC championship. We can worry about the other crap when the season's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Zip Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Zach I think you miss the point of the entire thread. This is not a thread of complaining -- I would actually suggest it is a thread of soul searching and trying to gauge the rest of the community in their belief in this program. This is KD's sixth season and I at some point the hard questions need to be asked. I will be suprised if this team wins the MAC Championship but I will not be surprised if they play in the MAC Championship game again. I have said I'm willing to wait to see what happens with the incoming transfers, but I've also thought this program has had the talent in the past to be much better than they are and they have failed my expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UAZipster0305 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Some people are never happy. Since the Huggins era, the program hasn't had anything to hang its hat on...until KD turned things around. To me, the 20+ win seasons aren't that remarkable given our especially week out-of-conference schedule and no marque match-ups at home. However, we have gone dancing, played in the CBI and NIT, won an NIT game, and have been in the MACC game 4 years in a row. What is our precedent for judging KD's success? UA standards? As I already said, KD has made this program as good as it has ever been! Huggins didn't even win an NCAA Tournament game in his tenure here. The highest MAC standards? Other than Can't's run in the NCAA Tournament many years ago and a few others in the distant past (Ball State and Miami, I think), what program from the MAC has had sustained national-level success? None. So, let's be realistic here. KD deserves nothing less than our continued support for another 3 years. The grass is not always greener on the other side. We could replace KD thinking we are upgrading only to have the program slide back to MAC-level mediocrity. If we have a good, exciting week in Cleveland and make the final (and maybe even the NCAA Tournament), you will all be back on KD's bandwagon. Look back on my post then and know that I never left the bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 How dare KD not take us to the promised land. If we had a better coach I'm sure that every blue chipper in the country would flock here. After all, we have the most deserving fan base in the whole country. Look how we sell out every game and our students live and die for Zips sports. If we don't get rid of KD, we will never be national champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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