Penn State-Wow

[GP1]

I can honestly say that if I walked in on something like this when I was 28, there would have been a fight to the death. I would have killed Sandusky, or he would have had to kill me trying to save himself from me, but someone would have died. I have no idea how McQueary doesn't go into that shower with fists flying. Chain of command my foot.....

Remember we are dealing with all the information. I certainly would have broken it up knowing what we all know. But do we know what McQueary knew at the time?

Actually, we do. McQueary's grand jury testimony shows he heard slapping sounds like people having sex. He walks in the shower and sees Sandusky raping a young boy with the boy's hands against the shower wall. There is no doubt as to what McQueary saw and he did nothing to stop it. In fact, he ran away like a scared child and told his daddy. He was 28 at the time.I have always heard there is a dark side to Paterno. My bet is a lot of the people around PSU are scared of the guy.

[GP1]

Penn State's failure of powerGood read Dave. Thanks for posting. I have no idea how Paterno had the nerve to walk on the practice field yesterday. My mind wonders to what the players on the team are thinking and what they thought when he walked on the field? What do they think now when they take a shower after practice in a room where a boy was raped?I truely believe a guy like Paterno has lived a life of people telling him he is right for so long, he has no idea when he is wrong. It would be a shame for him to take the field this Saturday.Lastly, Paterno should not talk to the media and should have his personal attorney do all of his talking for him at this point. Why? I think the FBI should investigate what went on and if he slips up and tells the truth in a presser, it could be held against him. I think a Federal crime may have been committed and he needs to take the 5th as he may have contributed to it.

[g-mann17]

I can honestly say that if I walked in on something like this when I was 28, there would have been a fight to the death. I would have killed Sandusky, or he would have had to kill me trying to save himself from me, but someone would have died. I have no idea how McQueary doesn't go into that shower with fists flying. Chain of command my foot.....

Remember we are dealing with all the information. I certainly would have broken it up knowing what we all know. But do we know what McQueary knew at the time?

Actually, we do. McQueary's grand jury testimony shows he heard slapping sounds like people having sex. He walks in the shower and sees Sandusky raping a young boy with the boy's hands against the shower wall. There is no doubt as to what McQueary saw and he did nothing to stop it. In fact, he ran away like a scared child and told his daddy. He was 28 at the time.I have always heard there is a dark side to Paterno. My bet is a lot of the people around PSU are scared of the guy.

Yes and there are other parts of the indictment where he said he saw less. When you see something horriffic you rarely if ever can convey what you saw accurately because parts of the brain will attempt to protect you from what you saw. If McQueary saw what he saw and nothing was happening for 10 years why wasn't he blowing the whistle? This isn't a "we corrected the behavior" type issue. So nothing short of seeing the guy in jail should have been enough. The whole thing is a mess and it will be sorted out over the next several months. Those who should pay will pay. But the reactions of people regarding punishing everyone is exactly why courts exist. There are people wanting to kill all of them, right now, without know any of the details except the final detail that a sick, twisted, evil, can't use the right word on here, took advantage of dozens of boys through his positions with two distinguished institutions. Both had knowledge, neither did anything until it was far too late. What this tells me is that there is an inherent problem with the whole system. This is an opportunity to fix something and create change and it will likely get swept under by the hatred stirred up.

[GP1]

Yes and there are other parts of the indictment where he said he saw less. When you see something horriffic you rarely if ever can convey what you saw accurately because parts of the brain will attempt to protect you from what you saw. If McQueary saw what he saw and nothing was happening for 10 years why wasn't he blowing the whistle?

His grand jury testimony is clear as to what he saw. People who write grand jury findings are pretty good at it and it is clear as to what he saw. Maybe his brain was protecting him, but from what? Mabye he as scared of the culture of PSU where Paterno has the final say on everything and could destroy his career. Remeber, McQueary grew up in State College and never experienced life outside of Paterno's little kingdom. Maybe he thought his career was more important than a child rape case. All of that doesn't matter. He saw a child being raped and did nothing about it.

[Dr Z]

I have always heard there is a dark side to Paterno. My bet is a lot of the people around PSU are scared of the guy.

I watched a half of an NFL game with Joe sitting next to me 20 years ago. He was in an isle seat, and I was the only guy he could talk to. He brought a brown bag lunch to the game and ate it while talking less football than you and I would talk at a Zips game. Seemed to me back then that the guy was as harmless as a fly. This has little to do with what is currently going on, but if there is some sort of "dark side" to JoPa, it would surprise me.

[GP1]

This has little to do with what is currently going on, but if there is some sort of "dark side" to JoPa, it would surprise me.

Nothing surprises me when it comes to college athletics.

[zippy5]

a lot of the people around PSU are scared of the guy.

Exactly. No one wanted to be the one to bring PSU and JoePa down. Going the whole way from McQueary to JoePa himself to Curley/Spanier/Schultz the whole way to the DA who decided not to pursue the case when he had a confession from Sandusky.Ray Gricar, this DA, went missing in 05...talk about a weird twist that hasn't been talked about much.

[zippy5]

This has little to do with what is currently going on, but if there is some sort of "dark side" to JoPa, it would surprise me.

Nothing surprises me when it comes to college athletics.

You'd be amazed at the amount of crimes that were reported as soon as the AP opened in State College. JoePa ran the whole town until then, including his newspapers. He isn't the sweet old guy that everyone would want you to think.

[Zipmeister]

I can honestly say that if I walked in on something like this when I was 28, there would have been a fight to the death. I would have killed Sandusky, or he would have had to kill me trying to save himself from me, but someone would have died. I have no idea how McQueary doesn't go into that shower with fists flying. Chain of command my foot.....

Remember we are dealing with all the information. I certainly would have broken it up knowing what we all know. But do we know what McQueary knew at the time? Additionally from a Joe Pa point of view, he gets info from a GA, he does what he needs to do with it. Tells the AD and a guy who is in charge of the PSU Police department, that is like telling the commissioner of a police department. To me that is as handled as it could be.Now if McQueary saw what he says he saw in the indictment, how does he continue for 10+ years seeing Sandusky on campus and never questioning what happened. For Joe Pa he went to the authorities, they said they would investigate the accusation, if Sandusky wasn't removed or suspended by them, what else was he to do? Additionally there were external investigations of Sandusky by the youth organization he was involved with and they did nothing. No one is right on how this was handled, because it went on and too many innocent boys were taken advantage of, but of all parties Joe Pa is the one getting railroaded even though he told authorities, they blame him for not telling everyone?

JoePa told just about everybody other than the people he was supposed to according to Penn. law.

[zippy5]

JoePa did everything he was legally required to do. But as a man who preached the Penn State Way, always doing the honorable thing, and morality above all else...he failed. Legally he was right, but morally, way off. Tell someone Joe, this was bigger than a football program.This is the quote behind his statue outside Beaver Stadium... "They ask me what I'd like written about me when I'm gone. I hope they write I made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach."

[ZippyRulz]

I can honestly say that if I walked in on something like this when I was 28, there would have been a fight to the death. I would have killed Sandusky, or he would have had to kill me trying to save himself from me, but someone would have died. I have no idea how McQueary doesn't go into that shower with fists flying. Chain of command my foot.....

Remember we are dealing with all the information. I certainly would have broken it up knowing what we all know. But do we know what McQueary knew at the time? Additionally from a Joe Pa point of view, he gets info from a GA, he does what he needs to do with it. Tells the AD and a guy who is in charge of the PSU Police department, that is like telling the commissioner of a police department. To me that is as handled as it could be.Now if McQueary saw what he says he saw in the indictment, how does he continue for 10+ years seeing Sandusky on campus and never questioning what happened. For Joe Pa he went to the authorities, they said they would investigate the accusation, if Sandusky wasn't removed or suspended by them, what else was he to do? Additionally there were external investigations of Sandusky by the youth organization he was involved with and they did nothing. No one is right on how this was handled, because it went on and too many innocent boys were taken advantage of, but of all parties Joe Pa is the one getting railroaded even though he told authorities, they blame him for not telling everyone?

McQueary saw Sandusky raping a little boy in the shower! How much more information do you need?? As for JoePa, he definitely did the correct thing legally. That said, how do you not follow up when you see an alleged molester on campus day in and day out? Wouldn't you want to know what was found out?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colle...I45M_story.html"What he didn’t do, apparently, was follow up with authorities. A man who built his iconic reputation on winning “the right way” passed the information up the chain and moved on.“This is a tragedy,” Paterno’s statement read. “It’s one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.” Hindsight? A more fitting word applies here: hypocrisy. Because it’s simply unconscionable Paterno, who spent his career presenting such a strong moral front, would do so little after receiving an eyewitness account about a child allegedly being sexually assaulted in the building he runs by someone personally close to him.Paterno defended his actions, saying he spoke with the athletic director instead of turning to authorities, in part, because he was not informed of the “very specific actions” McQueary included in his grand jury testimony. Paterno, though, also said McQueary was “distraught.” That didn’t lead Paterno to ask for more specifics? That wasn’t enough for him to do more than he did?"

[Dave in Green]

It's really painful to look at the timeline of events and see how many people had an opportunity to stop Sandusky over the years. Most people along the way saw a small part of the big picture and didn't know they were dealing with a serial offender. The exception would be those who were aware of both the 1998 and 2002 incidents on campus. The local district attorney even passed on filing charges in 1998. But there was no excuse for inaction in 2002 by anyone who also knew of the 1998 incident. That obviously established a pattern. Those are the people who are most likely to face legal charges.Key dates in the Penn State sex abuse caseIt looks as if the PSU president who was in office during all of this may also be on his way out:Report: PSU president Spanier may resign today

[jem101]

It's really painful to look at the timeline of events and see how many people had an opportunity to stop Sandusky over the years. Most people along the way saw a small part of the big picture and didn't know they were dealing with a serial offender. The exception would be those who were aware of both the 1998 and 2002 incidents on campus. The local district attorney even passed on filing charges in 1998. But there was no excuse for inaction in 2002 by anyone who also knew of the 1998 incident. That obviously established a pattern. Those are the people who are most likely to face legal charges.Key dates in the Penn State sex abuse caseIt looks as if the PSU president who was in office during all of this may also be on his way out:Report: PSU president Spanier may resign today

That DA went missing in 2005. This story just gets crazier.

[UAbandfan]

A crime was committed on the campus of Penn State, witnessed by a grad assistant. The grad assistant, not completely trained and educated on proper procedures, reports the crime to his immediate supervisor. Next step - said supervisor calls the police, because this was a CRIME. This was not some stupid NCAA rules violation, and you don't get a free pass because you reported it to the A.D. If the grad assistant had witnessed a theft, someone spray painting the walls, committing vandalism, etc., no one would be questioning what should be done.

[GP1]

It's really painful to look at the timeline of events and see how many people had an opportunity to stop Sandusky over the years.

I would like to submit that if my esteemed colleague from Green had a chance to design a form that would allow a University employee to report child rape, along with a six month procedure that would explore every possible avenue of wrong doing before acting, this would have never happened.

[GP1]

This was not some stupid NCAA rules violation, and you don't get a free pass because you reported it to the A.D.

You don't understand. The morons who work in college athletics don't know the difference between acutal laws and ncaa rules. There is a difference between the two.

[Blue & Gold]

It was kind of a downer seeing this headline scroll along the bottom of the screen all night during the Zips b-ball game on ESPNU.

[zippy5]

paterno and spanier are out.

[Dave in Green]

It's really painful to look at the timeline of events and see how many people had an opportunity to stop Sandusky over the years.

I would like to submit that if my esteemed colleague from Green had a chance to design a form that would allow a University employee to report child rape, along with a six month procedure that would explore every possible avenue of wrong doing before acting, this would have never happened.

Not funny.

[ZippyRulz]

paterno and spanier are out.

as of Wed. night, after the trustees meeting.."...over his apparent failure to follow up on a report of the 2002 incident, in which Sandusky allegedly sodomized a 10-year-old boy in the showers at the team's football complex..."http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/09/penn-...-at-end-season/

[Doug Snyder]

It's really painful to look at the timeline of events and see how many people had an opportunity to stop Sandusky over the years.

I would like to submit that if my esteemed colleague from Green had a chance to design a form that would allow a University employee to report child rape, along with a six month procedure that would explore every possible avenue of wrong doing before acting, this would have never happened.

Not funny.

yea....the villiage idiot from NC is in rare form today. Some topics are off limits for jokes. For GP1...jokes about illegal immigrants are fighting words but it is ok to joke about rape. My guess is he does not have kids...no parent could be so insensitive.

[Spin]

This will be a night of turmoil on the PSU campus. Riot police are active.

[Dave in Green]

I heard an interesting comment from a talking head on TV tonight, who noted in a passing remark that Paterno is of an age (84 years old) that really doesn't know how to deal with things like this. That's not an excuse. But it's a good observation that one of the reasons so many situations like this in the past went so far is because older generations honestly did not know how to deal with it. The fact that the oldest, most experienced people are often in the highest positions of power only contributes to the problem.The world has changed, and there are now laws in place to assist those who do not fully understand the gravity of not following through on reporting such incidents. As more details came out in this case, it became clearer that some fell short on their legal obligations and others in their moral obligations.

[Doug Snyder]

I heard an interesting comment from a talking head on TV tonight, who noted in a passing remark that Paterno is of an age (84 years old) that really doesn't know how to deal with things like this. That's not an excuse. But it's a good observation that one of the reasons so many situations like this in the past went so far is because older generations honestly did not know how to deal with it. The fact that the oldest, most experienced people are often in the highest positions of power only contributes to the problem.The world has changed, and there are now laws in place to assist those who do not fully understand the gravity of not following through on reporting such incidents. As more details came out in this case, it became clearer that some fell short on their legal obligations and others in their moral obligations.

Sorry...age is no excuse. This line of thinking is just lame rationalization. And really...he was a spring chicken age of 74 when the issue occurred and 70 when the very first issue took place. Next thing it will be the hair...bald people are more sensitive and understanding. This is a "Yes" box and "No" box issue. I believe PSU will do the right thing....anyone involved will no longer be employed by the university.

[Dr Z]

I was glad to see scrolling obnoxiously across the bottom of the screen last night during the Zips game that "Joe admits he should have done more." There was also a scroll that read something to the fact "I'll continue to do everything I can to help Penn State University." I would hope at some point and time that Joe does everything he can to help the victims, PSU doesn't need as much help as the victims do.