Hire Paul Winters Now.

[Doug Snyder]

a more charismatic difference-maker be hired.

I used to sit on conference calls with my phone on mute laughing at Six Sigma black belts saying things they had no idea what they were talking about and everyone knew it (Hint: This is when you know it is time to exit corporate America and start your own business). This reminds me of those phone calls.

Please explain what a "charismatic difference-maker" is.?.?

You exiting ZNO?? I will miss you...like this toothache I will have fixed in the morning

[Doug Snyder]

@ZipRoo, you keep pushing Bowden as a better option than Winters. In a previous post, you said you'd "offer Terry Bowden the moon."

Terry Bowden has been a D2 coach at the University of North Alabama for the last few years, and hasn't come close to getting to the D2 championship game.

He was hired by UNA at a salary of only $100k per year.

Any FBS school could have easily offered enough money to hire him away from UNA at any time.

Other than his last name, can you explain what you see in Terry Bowden that should cause UA to go after a coach that no other FBS school in the country has any interest in?

Terry Bowden?? Come on. He is on no one's radar. Check again DiG. He probable wrote that Terry Bowden is a LOON and you misread

[skip-zip]

Wrong... here's an article on the differences in having success in D1, 2, and 3. As the article points out, D2 is very similar to D1, and D3 is kind of its own very different world.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2962812

Here's the bottom line skip... you can continue to bash Winters and search for every excuse you can to do so, or you can get on board. He's our next head coach, he has the support of a vast majority of people on this board and UA fans in general, and you would be better suited to just accept that, get on board, and help him make this thing a winner than to continue to bitch, moan, and make things up.

Hey DIG....see what I mean?

Please allow me to present...............EXHIBIT A

[ZachTheZip]

Whoever we hire, it should have been at least a week ago. If we wait until sunday to announce the coach will not be able to recruit at all, because the recruiting "dead period" where coaches can no longer have contact with prospects starts on Monday.

If Winters really wanted the job, we could have leveraged to get him to earlier or else we would need to move on. The fact that we are waiting is horrendous for the wellbeing of the football program. I don't care about your stupid D-II playoffs that draw less than high school games. Either you want to be our coach and will come here on our terms, or you don't really want the job.

It's excruciating to me that we're intentionally crippling the program in order to get this guy. It's also a disturbing sign that we really had no other plan but to hire Winters, even as better options were knocking on the door.

This is disgusting and Wistrcill should be fired for this B.S.

[Blue & Gold]

Whoever we hire, it should have been at least a week ago. If we wait until sunday to announce the coach will not be able to recruit at all, because the recruiting "dead period" where coaches can no longer have contact with prospects starts on Monday.

If Winters really wanted the job, we could have leveraged to get him to earlier or else we would need to move on. The fact that we are waiting is horrendous for the wellbeing of the football program. I don't care about your stupid D-II playoffs that draw less than high school games. Either you want to be our coach and will come here on our terms, or you don't really want the job.

It's excruciating to me that we're intentionally crippling the program in order to get this guy. It's also a disturbing sign that we really had no other plan but to hire Winters, even as better options were knocking on the door.

This is disgusting and Wistrcill should be fired for this B.S.

No one will ever accuse Zach of not being opinionated.

[NanNewWin]

Whoever we hire, it should have been at least a week ago. If we wait until sunday to announce the coach will not be able to recruit at all, because the recruiting "dead period" where coaches can no longer have contact with prospects starts on Monday.

If Winters really wanted the job, we could have leveraged to get him to earlier or else we would need to move on. The fact that we are waiting is horrendous for the wellbeing of the football program. I don't care about your stupid D-II playoffs that draw less than high school games. Either you want to be our coach and will come here on our terms, or you don't really want the job.

It's excruciating to me that we're intentionally crippling the program in order to get this guy. It's also a disturbing sign that we really had no other plan but to hire Winters, even as better options were knocking on the door.

This is disgusting and Wistrcill should be fired for this B.S.

Can't do it - must not get in a p-ing contest with ZtZ for my first post - except maybe to say all of 'this' began 12/18/85, when Dennison's staff was fired - 26 years from this coming Sunday. Until that time there was a certain comfort level with UA football; since then we've been trying to recapture that, plus more. Not sure exactly what he means about a 'dead period' although I know what each of those words mean. I'm not the least bit concerned about the incoming recruiting class, and I'll share why when I'm ready. For now I'm just happy to have ZtZ to play with. Gerry wasn't on board until this time of the season; maybe, just maybe ADs and HCs know a little bit more than our little fan base. and here we go...

[Zipmeister]

Whoever we hire, it should have been at least a week ago. If we wait until sunday to announce the coach will not be able to recruit at all, because the recruiting "dead period" where coaches can no longer have contact with prospects starts on Monday.

If Winters really wanted the job, we could have leveraged to get him to earlier or else we would need to move on. The fact that we are waiting is horrendous for the wellbeing of the football program. I don't care about your stupid D-II playoffs that draw less than high school games. Either you want to be our coach and will come here on our terms, or you don't really want the job.

It's excruciating to me that we're intentionally crippling the program in order to get this guy. It's also a disturbing sign that we really had no other plan but to hire Winters, even as better options were knocking on the door.

This is disgusting and Wistrcill should be fired for this B.S.

No one will ever accuse Zach of not being opinionated.

or reasoned.

[ZipRoo]

Guys are *really* asking why a school would go after Terry Bowden? Come on, you're better than that. Name aside, I'd think you're familiar with his record and success. And if you truly don't believe that his hiring at UA would be welcomed tenfold locally, over PW, then you were probably among those calling for a two-point conversion instead of overtime.

[GP1]

Whoever we hire, it should have been at least a week ago. If we wait until sunday to announce the coach will not be able to recruit at all, because the recruiting "dead period" where coaches can no longer have contact with prospects starts on Monday.

If Winters really wanted the job, we could have leveraged to get him to earlier or else we would need to move on. The fact that we are waiting is horrendous for the wellbeing of the football program. I don't care about your stupid D-II playoffs that draw less than high school games. Either you want to be our coach and will come here on our terms, or you don't really want the job.

It's excruciating to me that we're intentionally crippling the program in order to get this guy. It's also a disturbing sign that we really had no other plan but to hire Winters, even as better options were knocking on the door.

Maybe you haven't been following the recruiting thread. Our recruiting has been dead for about a year. One more week isn't going to matter. Paul has a lot of contacts in the midwest and will be able to pick up recruits relatively easily given the current state of our program.

Akron isn't in a position to give ANYONE a "take it or leave it" proposition. There isn't a single coach on a national championship run who would give that up to come to Akron.

"knocking on the door"? I didn't realize there were that many people dying to become the coach at Akron.

[K92]

Guys are *really* asking why a school would go after Terry Bowden? Come on, you're better than that. Name aside, I'd think you're familiar with his record and success. And if you truly don't believe that his hiring at UA would be welcomed tenfold locally, over PW, then you were probably among those calling for a two-point conversion instead of overtime.

One of the knocks I have read on PW is that there has been no interest in him from any other FBS programs. Same knock applies to Bowden.

[akronad]

Guys are *really* asking why a school would go after Terry Bowden? Come on, you're better than that. Name aside, I'd think you're familiar with his record and success. And if you truly don't believe that his hiring at UA would be welcomed tenfold locally, over PW, then you were probably among those calling for a two-point conversion instead of overtime.

So, what has Bowden done recently???????????????????

[johnnyzip84]

Good post, Dave. You know how much I harp about wanting to see more information sharing as opposed to arguing on this board.

Speaking of information, I thought this was pretty shocking, and a great example of the dramatic difference between running a D-II program, and a D-1A program:

Someone pointed out an article to me in a Detroit publication in which it says that Wayne State's football budget is only 195k. WOW. I guess I wasn't too far off when I used the old analogy that it's like running a corner grocery store vs. running a Wal-Mart.

I saw the same article that mentioned Wayne State’s football budget is $195,000. I believe it was in on a Crain’s Business web site which won’t allow you to provide a link. But if you Google “wayne state” and “195000”, you’ll find it. For most schools that offer football, the football budget is usually around 30%-50% of the overall athletic budget. If we assume 30% for Wayne State, then their overall athletic budget is in the neighborhood of 195,000/0.3 = $650,000.

How does this compare with other D-II schools? I found this information on Minnesota-Crookston. They are in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), the same conference as St Cloud State and Minnesota-Duluth, two teams Wayne State has beaten in the playoffs. The link indicates Minnesota-Crookston’s overall athletic budget in 2006 was $1,700,000. The link also mentions that this is the lowest in the NSIC. Finally, the link state’s the average overall budget in the NSIC is $2,600,000.

For another glimpse into D-II athletic budgets, I found this information on North Alabama (Terry Bowden’s school, which is contemplating a move to FCS). This link states that North Alabama’s overall athletic budget will need to increase by $3,000,000 to a total of $7,500,000 for a possible move to FCS. Thus, the current (D-II) budget is $4,500,000.

What does all of this mean? I’d say it’s pretty clear that Winters has been able “do more with less” at WSU. That seems like a pretty attractive quality to have for a prospective head coach at UA.

I’ll throw in this caveat. The $195,000 football budget number for WSU seems low to me. But even if it’s double or triple that, the conclusions remain the same. WSU gets a lot of bang for the buck with Winters.

[skip-zip]

Good post, Dave. You know how much I harp about wanting to see more information sharing as opposed to arguing on this board.

Speaking of information, I thought this was pretty shocking, and a great example of the dramatic difference between running a D-II program, and a D-1A program:

Someone pointed out an article to me in a Detroit publication in which it says that Wayne State's football budget is only 195k. WOW. I guess I wasn't too far off when I used the old analogy that it's like running a corner grocery store vs. running a Wal-Mart.

I saw the same article that mentioned Wayne State’s football budget is $195,000. I believe it was in on a Crain’s Business web site which won’t allow you to provide a link. But if you Google “wayne state” and “195000”, you’ll find it. For most schools that offer football, the football budget is usually around 30%-50% of the overall athletic budget. If we assume 30% for Wayne State, then their overall athletic budget is in the neighborhood of 195,000/0.3 = $650,000.

How does this compare with other D-II schools? I found this information on Minnesota-Crookston. They are in the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), the same conference as St Cloud State and Minnesota-Duluth, two teams Wayne State has beaten in the playoffs. The link indicates Minnesota-Crookston’s overall athletic budget in 2006 was $1,700,000. The link also mentions that this is the lowest in the NSIC. Finally, the link state’s the average overall budget in the NSIC is $2,600,000.

For another glimpse into D-II athletic budgets, I found this information on North Alabama (Terry Bowden’s school, which is contemplating a move to FCS). This link states that North Alabama’s overall athletic budget will need to increase by $3,000,000 to a total of $7,500,000 for a possible move to FCS. Thus, the current (D-II) budget is $4,500,000.

What does all of this mean? I’d say it’s pretty clear that Winters has been able “do more with less” at WSU. That seems like a pretty attractive quality to have for a prospective head coach at UA.

I’ll throw in this caveat. The $195,000 football budget number for WSU seems low to me. But even if it’s double or triple that, the conclusions remain the same. WSU gets a lot of bang for the buck with Winters.

Have you ever been in politics? I see you found a way to try to turn the budget issue into a positive for the candidate you support

Knowing that even the lowest level D-1A programs have to manage a budget that's well into the millions, it's a valid concern to wonder if even a high level D-II coach is capable of making such a huge leap in terms of simply managing the program. If anything, the analogy I used was an understatement. Would a Wal-Mart hire someone to run their store who was currently running a mom-and-pop corner store? It's definitely something to think about.

[ZachTheZip]

"Dead period" is an official term used by the NCAA to describe a time when recruiting contact is only allowed by phone or letter.

[g-mann17]

Have you ever been in politics? I see you found a way to try to turn the budget issue into a positive for the candidate you support

Knowing that even the lowest level D-1A programs have to manage a budget that's well into the millions, it's a valid concern to wonder if even a high level D-II coach is capable of making such a huge leap in terms of simply managing the program. If anything, the analogy I used was an understatement. Would a Wal-Mart hire someone to run their store who was currently running a mom-and-pop corner store? It's definitely something to think about.

Yes they would, in a heartbeat. Especially if that person already had a degree. Why? Because the person already knows how to hire people and manage them. The interesting thing about places with bigger budgets, they hire people to handle counting the larger pile of beans.

[skip-zip]

Have you ever been in politics? I see you found a way to try to turn the budget issue into a positive for the candidate you support

Knowing that even the lowest level D-1A programs have to manage a budget that's well into the millions, it's a valid concern to wonder if even a high level D-II coach is capable of making such a huge leap in terms of simply managing the program. If anything, the analogy I used was an understatement. Would a Wal-Mart hire someone to run their store who was currently running a mom-and-pop corner store? It's definitely something to think about.

Yes they would, in a heartbeat. Especially if that person already had a degree. Why? Because the person already knows how to hire people and manage them. The interesting thing about places with bigger budgets, they hire people to handle counting the larger pile of beans.

Do you know something I don't? I'm talking about the overall challenge of managing something dramatically larger than what someone managed previously. You don't see these things happen in the business world, but maybe athletics is different. It's just a point of discusssion.

[Dave in Green]

@skip-zip, yes, I saw EXHIBIT A. I agree that bashing is not productive. But I would differentiate between bashing and discussing. I see nothing wrong with discussing Winters' pros and cons.

Intelligent discussion requires that different sides present different pro and con points, objectively consider all points, and be open to changing their opinions if someone presents a more compelling position.

Taking just one point here, there's a good discussion going on about budget management. You rightfully point out that a lower level head coach manages a smaller budget than higher level head coaches. How much of a handicap is this in reality?

It's already been pointed out that managing a football program budget is in principle the same process, regardless of whether it's 6 figures or 7 figures. It happens all the time in large corporations where a manager who proves he can manage a fair-sized budget is promoted to a position of managing a much larger budget.

Another point to consider is that someone without any head coaching experience would have no experience managing a team budget of any size. That would give a lower level head coach an experience advantage over a higher level coordinator, at least in the area of managing a team budget.

The only candidates who might have a budget management advantage over Winters would be those who were head coaches at a higher level with a higher budget than he managed.

So my question to you is whether you would acknowledge the budget experience advantage that Winters has over the coordinators who've been mentioned as candidates?

If you see any flaws in that logic, please feel free to point them out for further discussion. If you acknowledge the budget experience points above, we can move on to discussing another point.

[g-mann17]

Do you know something I don't? I'm talking about the overall challenge of managing something dramatically larger than what someone managed previously. You don't see these things happen in the business world, but maybe athletics is different. It's just a point of discusssion.

That's too easy... But seriously it was just a bad comparison. You look for skill sets, Wal-Mart would hire someone with management experience regardless of what level. Why? Because all the tasks there are specialized. So a mom&pop manager had to do everything, where at Wal-Mart they would only have to manage people who are doing the tasks they used to do. Perhaps a better comparison would have been, does Summa hire a Dr. that runs a clinic in Moosehead to run City Hospital? Heck nah.

[hiroad1]

I agree with D in G's comments above.

I think there are other challenges of scale Paul will face though.

Many, many times I have read where D1 head coaches (and especially NFL head coaches) describe their role as more of a CEO. What that implies is the need to have the management skills to handle a larger staff of people and broader demands (press, speaking engagements, perhaps more scrutiny on NCAA audits, etc). Thus, the necessity of knowing what to delegate and how to coordinate at the top after delegating the day-today stuff. The necessity to manage this way in a larger organization presents a challenge for those without the prior experience. This does NOT mean that PW can't do it. Only that he will have to, and at a new scale.

Now, I'm not that smart about the X's and O's in football. But it seems to me there may be a matter of scale here too. Perhaps more complicated schemes, against better opposing coaches, and with and against athletes who are collectively bigger and faster.

There is a matter of scale in recruiting too. As much as people want to tout Ohio HS football and local recruiting, UA can't be successful without recruiting in states well beyond Ohio.

In business an ideal hire is someone who has EXACTLY the level of experience you are looking for. However, that would be a lateral move for the person seeking the job. Most people want to move up, and don't usually make lateral moves. Therefore, talent recruiters and hiring managers have to evaluate people who have the skills to suggest they can step up and be successful with a new level of responsibility. Hiring decisions almost always involve some risk.

If some people say there are no risks with PW, I say nonsense. However, I think he has a background to suggest he can step up.

If UA was able to hire someone with a lower risk profile than Paul Winters, I believe they would have. But it appears they could not.

If Paul Winters is hired, I believe he has the potential to be successful. I wish I felt it was without risk, but nothing is. Especially when you are 120th in a class of 120.

[Zipmeister]

If PW has demonstrated an ability to successfully compete against other programs with bigger budgets, he will fit right in at Akron.

[Dr Z]

Trying to put myself in Dr P's shoes...I'm starting to think the hire after PW could be the big one. I'll be curious to see PW's contract, should be telling.

[g-mann17]

Awful lot of people assuming that Paul Winters is the one getting hired.

[skip-zip]

Perhaps a better comparison would have been, does Summa hire a Dr. that runs a clinic in Moosehead to run City Hospital?

I like that analogy better than my own.

[Captain Kangaroo]

Awful lot of people assuming that Paul Winters is the one getting hired.

I am.

I certainly could be wrong, but the 440V line dropping in the bathtub describes the level of shock I'd receive if it's anyone else.

[Dave in Green]

Perhaps a better comparison would have been, does Summa hire a Dr. that runs a clinic in Moosehead to run City Hospital?

I like that analogy better than my own.

I thought the football team budget management question was related to comparing the experience of the various candidates for the UA head coaching position.

Which of the current candidates has more experience as a head coach at any level managing a team budget of any level?