a-zip Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 We are in the middle of the worst case scenario right now. Nobody recognizes it. Maybe that isn't all together true. Things could always get worse. I'm just trying to think of some ways in which the MAClike conferences could become even less relevant. Here are some ideas.1. If the bcs conferences go out and devise a plan to have their own television networks where they can rake in even more money and separate themselves financially from the MAClike conferences....What? This is already happening....Never mind.2. If the MAClike conferences became so irrelevant that they had to prostitute themselves to a major network and have a significant number of their games played on Tuesday and Wednesday nights starting at 8 PM in front of empty stadiums because nobody wants to go out in October and November to freeze their asses off early week to watch a football game. The commissioners and ADs would never be this self serving...... What? This is happening already....Never mind.3. Here is a scenario that I think would really hurt MAClike conferences. It's actually a really funny one and one that I think even MAClike schools wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for. It's called the oldest trick in the Athletic Directors playbook. They dupe the taxpayers of their states to put up the funds to build them new stadiums that sit empty, even on game day, and tell them it is/was part of a "building process" that is going to pay off some day. One would have to believe in magic for this to work. What would make this even more funny is if the same schools bankrupted future generations of Americans to pay for this "building process" through inflated student fees the kids had to attach to their student loans. To double down on this, the taxpayers of the states they are in will have to pick up the gap between the spending and the student fees. To triple down, what would be even more insidious is of the leaders of the universities have to cut education programs, thus cutting into the core mission of the universities, which is research and education. No way would any school fall for something so stupid..... What? This is already.....Never mind.I could go on all day, but it would be too depressing.These are the discussions schools should be having in private. How it is spun in a positive manner so it is more tasteful to the public is another issue. The NCAA (governing body) is truly a mess and they have created all of this themselves. They are supposed to be about amateur sports and academics……it is all about the benjamins to them. I tell you what is going to be interesting is when the players of the "BIG" schools start unionizing to get paid. How are they going to control that? Will "MAC" players get paid the same as "SEC" or "BIG 10" players? When paying players is illegal (now), they still can't stop it…….GP - you are right, we could go on and on…..The fact that U of Maryland is going to pay at 60 MILLION DOLLAR penalty to leave the ACC (which I would kill for us to get in) is mind boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think you're really exaggerating the MAC's demise. As far as football goes, we're in one of the best stretches the league has seen.How depressing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 How depressing......An Orange Bowl bid, a trip to NYC for the Heisman ceremony, multiple ranked teams, 2 top 5 picks in a row.. Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 The NCAA (governing body) is truly a mess and they have created all of this themselves. The NCAA is a mess because the member institutions made it a mess. I don't the bcs level conference chasing the money as a bad thing. In many ways, they have to because they piled up long term costs to support the "building process". Has anyone ever been to Columbus to see how much they have in the way of athletic facilities? Supporting those facilities doesn't come cheap. It does create a whole world of problems for us though because our types of conferences, in particular the MAC, responds so poorly to the changes that take place. We have to go in a different direction than they are going in order to support our own "building process". It isn't sustainable at our level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 The NCAA is a mess because the member institutions made it a mess. ...This is a point that often gets overlooked. The NCAA's own self-description begins with the following words:The National Collegiate Athletic Association is a membership-driven organization ...The members that drive the NCAA are primarily colleges and universities. If they aren't getting out of the NCAA what they're driving it to do, then they need to look in the mirror and do an honest self-evaluation of what it is they're really driving for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 An Orange Bowl bid, a trip to NYC for the Heisman ceremony, multiple ranked teams, 2 top 5 picks in a row.. Not so much.I get similar arguments from ACC fans about what a great football conference it is. ACC fans say it is a great conference and I ask them how Wake, NC State and Virginia play into the greatness. You can find little insignificant points anywhere.An Orange Bowl bid in which NIU proved every doubter right by laying an egg and proving how little rankings mean.Rankings...they mean nothing and people don't remember them unless they are reminded.Heisman ceremony....nobody remembers the losers.Draft picks...What about the rest of the league?Don't get me wrong. I like the MAC. It isn't the league it was in the Roethlisberger, Pennington and Leftwich years.The quality of a league depends on the quality of all of it's teams. Is the league better or worse now than it was in the Soph and JR seasons of Roethlisberger? In both 2002 and 2003, the MAC had six teams exceed .500 records. It had seven teams below .500. ..........In 2013, the MAC had five finish above .500 and SEVEN teams finish equal to or below .500. ......In 2012, the MAC had six teams with greater than .500 records and seven teams finish less than or equal to .500. If you take the actual thing that means anything, winning, the MAC was worse last year than in 2012. If you compare either 2012 or 2013 to a decade before, it is not as better in the areas that matter.Do I need to get into the seemingly endless list of early season embarrassing losses the league suffers at the hands of the BCS teams each season?The MAC isn't getting better. I would argue the League reached one of it's high marks in 2012 and will begin to decline only to reach another high mark equal to 2012 in about 8-10 years.It has set itself up to get worse and it seems to be the one thing the leadership of the League and schools can get right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I said one of the best seasons it's had. I'm not sure you can argue against that. I think it's far from depressing. 2005ish-2012 was depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I said one of the best seasons it's had. I'm not sure you can argue against that. I think it's far from depressing. 2005ish-2012 was depressing.It has been a good couple of years. Best ever?....I'm skeptical. Periodically, the league goes through a good 2-3 year period in spite of the league's leadership. Somehow it is able to transcend the incompetents who run the league and become entertaining. My point is, the league tops out every 8-10 years and if it was a stock, you would sell your shares right now. I think the MAC is at a high point and will begin a decline in coming years if not next year. The leadership of the league is pushing as hard as it can for the fall.Think of it this way. The MAC basketball teams are not performing the way they were a few years ago. From top to bottom, the league isn't as good. It is going through the low point when the football side of the league is going through a high point. The league goes through odd cycles like this more than most in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 It has been a good couple of years. Best ever?....I'm skeptical. Periodically, the league goes through a good 2-3 year period in spite of the league's leadership. Somehow it is able to transcend the incompetents who run the league and become entertaining. My point is, the league tops out every 8-10 years and if it was a stock, you would sell your shares right now. I think the MAC is at a high point and will begin a decline in coming years if not next year. The leadership of the league is pushing as hard as it can for the fall.Think of it this way. The MAC basketball teams are not performing the way they were a few years ago. From top to bottom, the league isn't as good. It is going through the low point when the football side of the league is going through a high point. The league goes through odd cycles like this more than most in my opinion.Akron will win 8 games this season and get a bowl game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Akron will win 8 games this season and get a bowl game. I think your win total is a little high. 6-7 with a possibility of winning the MAC. Last time we won the MAC the league was on a down swing. The timing is right. Timing may not be everything, but it's very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Akron will win 8 games this season and get a bowl game. This has always been my acid test for the quality of the MAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsy Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I think your win total is a little high. 6-7 with a possibility of winning the MAC. Last time we won the MAC the league was on a down swing. The timing is right. Timing may not be everything, but it's very important.Don't get me wrong: my expectation is 6-7 games...however, I can see a perfect storm situation where 8 games is not out of the realm of possibility. More than any year in the past decade anyways. Every single game on our schedule is winnable. Enjoy the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Green Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I like the turn this thread is taking. I'd much rather read about UA football winning more games in the fall than playing in the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipgrad01 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I get similar arguments from ACC fans about what a great football conference it is. ACC fans say it is a great conference and I ask them how Wake, NC State and Virginia play into the greatness. You can find little insignificant points anywhere.An Orange Bowl bid in which NIU proved every doubter right by laying an egg and proving how little rankings mean.Rankings...they mean nothing and people don't remember them unless they are reminded.Heisman ceremony....nobody remembers the losers.Draft picks...What about the rest of the league?Don't get me wrong. I like the MAC. It isn't the league it was in the Roethlisberger, Pennington and Leftwich years.The quality of a league depends on the quality of all of it's teams. Is the league better or worse now than it was in the Soph and JR seasons of Roethlisberger? In both 2002 and 2003, the MAC had six teams exceed .500 records. It had seven teams below .500. ..........In 2013, the MAC had five finish above .500 and SEVEN teams finish equal to or below .500. ......In 2012, the MAC had six teams with greater than .500 records and seven teams finish less than or equal to .500. If you take the actual thing that means anything, winning, the MAC was worse last year than in 2012. If you compare either 2012 or 2013 to a decade before, it is not as better in the areas that matter.Do I need to get into the seemingly endless list of early season embarrassing losses the league suffers at the hands of the BCS teams each season?The MAC isn't getting better. I would argue the League reached one of it's high marks in 2012 and will begin to decline only to reach another high mark equal to 2012 in about 8-10 years.It has set itself up to get worse and it seems to be the one thing the leadership of the League and schools can get right.I would argue that the overall talent in the league is improved over those years. Go on youtube and pull up video of those games. Most of the guys look like glorified high school players. The talent level on most of the MAC teams, especially the upper half has improved dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I would argue that the overall talent in the league is improved over those years. Go on youtube and pull up video of those games. Most of the guys look like glorified high school players. The talent level on most of the MAC teams, especially the upper half has improved dramatically. Absolutely, and the talent level of all other conferences has declined dramatically over the same time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Absolutely, and the talent level of all other conferences has declined dramatically over the same time period.Well beside the SEC, PAC 12 and possibly ACC... You're right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Don't get me wrong: my expectation is 6-7 games...however, I can see a perfect storm situation where 8 games is not out of the realm of possibility. More than any year in the past decade anyways. Every single game on our schedule is winnable. Enjoy the ride.Confidence and momentum...If the Zips can capture some and take advantage of it, they could go on a run of consecutive wins and 8 would be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Absolutely, and the talent level of all other conferences has declined dramatically over the same time period.Talent isn't declining. It's being used differently. The types of offenses run now can neutralized talent in a way that has never been seen before in the history of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipmeister Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Talent isn't declining. It's being used differently. The types of offenses run now can neutralized talent in a way that has never been seen before in the history of the game. No the talent level in all conferences other than the MAC is definitely in freefall. Within four years the MAC should be the premier football conference in the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Think of it this way. The MAC basketball teams are not performing the way they were a few years ago. From top to bottom, the league isn't as good. It is going through the low point when the football side of the league is going through a high point. The league goes through odd cycles like this more than most in my opinion.Mac football is comparable, basketball is NOT! Has there been a Mac player drafted in the NBA in the last decade? It's no coincidence, Mac basketball is no where near what it used to be in the 90's. It's been a one bid league stuck with a crummy seed for that same amount of time. Plenty of top quality players throughout the league in football. Obviously, the league was better with Central Florida and Marshall in the league though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Mac football is comparable, basketball is NOT! Has there been a Mac player drafted in the NBA in the last decade?I don't base my opinion of a league on the number of players drafted into a professional league. The Big Ten gets lots of guys drafted and it is a crappy league. On some level it matters, but I think the quality of play matters more than anything. I trust my eyes in determining the quality of play. The quality of play of MAC football has been good the past 2-3 years. There weren't any NFL players on the field for the Akron vs. Toledo game last year, yet it was a very good football game and as entertaining as any game played Thanksgiving weekend last year. MAC basketball is on a 8-10 year slump of just crappy basketball. If the Zips didn't have a good team, they would be lucky to get 1,500 people per game. History tells us 2-3 years is about the limit for really good MAC football so I anticipate the quality of the league to decline in coming years. 8-10 years is about the limit for basketball to be bad and I anticipate somewhat of a turnaround in quality of play in coming years. Unfortunately, it may come from other teams, but that's the way sports are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Z Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't base my opinion of a league on the number of players drafted into a professional league.Maybe not base, but it's a darn good indication when included with other evidence. Your league is only as good as the stars that play in it. Szczerbiak, Wells, Kaman, Shaw, Dial, Daniels, Trent, Jamerson, Hunter.... All played in the 90's and were drafted in the NBA. NOBODY has been drafted since. Nobody. Zero. Nada. That is a pretty good indication of the difference between the quality of the league then vs now. Throw in the lack of bids, and the seed difference, and that evidence is overwhelming IMO. The entertainment value lacks in Mac basketball comparatively speaking, Mac football does not. That is how I base my opinion. I prefer to watch top talent play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UA1987 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't base my opinion of a league on the number of players drafted into a professional league. The Big Ten gets lots of guys drafted and it is a crappy league. On some level it matters, but I think the quality of play matters more than anything. I trust my eyes in determining the quality of play. The quality of play of MAC football has been good the past 2-3 years. There weren't any NFL players on the field for the Akron vs. Toledo game last year, yet it was a very good football game and as entertaining as any game played Thanksgiving weekend last year. MAC basketball is on a 8-10 year slump of just crappy basketball. If the Zips didn't have a good team, they would be lucky to get 1,500 people per game. History tells us 2-3 years is about the limit for really good MAC football so I anticipate the quality of the league to decline in coming years. 8-10 years is about the limit for basketball to be bad and I anticipate somewhat of a turnaround in quality of play in coming years. Unfortunately, it may come from other teams, but that's the way sports are.I really hope only a few die hard Zips fans are reading this or else Zipsnation might look silly. The quality of players in the Big Ten is extremely high. What has brought the prestige down is the drop in Michigan's elite status caused by a coaching carousel resulting from an embarrassing loss to Appy State. Yep, that one thing crippled Michigan (and we almost broke their other leg), but they will return. Penn State, of course, is the Sandusky fiasco. Those two things have hurt the Big Ten in a big way, However, Northwestern is on the rise despite their record last year. Wisconsin, Michigan State, Nebraska, Iowa, and Minnesota are tough. Purdue and Indiana seem to always struggle, but this happens in a conference. To say the Big Ten is a crappy league coming from a MAC forum sounds silly at best. Not as elite as it used to be due to perennial powerhouse struggles - OK, but only temporarily. No mention of the Buckeye's on purpose as we all seem to have little brother syndrome. One thing we can agree on is the Akron/Toledo game last year was a fine football game. Now let's get some more blue shirts for 2014 damn it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 The Big Ten's decline is anything but temporary. Just wait until Rutgers and Maryland join the fold! Ooph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-05-10/nfl-draft-2014-conference-ranking-players-drafted-sec-acc-big-ten-big-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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